DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Trump nears judgement day.

It's the horn and halo effects. It's happening on both sides. For "Democrats," the best is expected from Biden while the worst is expected from Trump. For "Republicans," it's the opposite. Everything appears to be "anchored"/interpreted through the lense of my party good, the other party bad. (This is affected by how strongly one is attached to that R/D label and the degree of conformity they operate under.)

Biden and Trump can do the same things (I'm not saying they have done all the same things) but people will make excuses for "their" guy while imagining horrible/evil intentions for the guy going against their guy.

Personally, both are old and failing and should have their keys (to the country) taken away for the good of society. Sure, Trump has a more grating personality, but sweet old ladies crash their cars, too. No, I'm not calling Biden an old lady. Just pointing out that personality doesn't have anything to do with the ability to effectively handle a task consistently.

Both parties aren’t cults. The Republican Party has turned into a cult. The cult leader demands total loyalty. A cult leader demands you to believe everything from their mouth and say others are lying. A cult leader punishes those who aren’t loyal and persecutes non believers. Both parties don’t do the same thing. It’s not the same on both sides of the isle as much as you wish others to believe that.

...You should stare at them intently, rub their shoulders, and wait for them to collapse in a puddle?

Like I said, bonefish. Halo and horn effect.

I am an Independent. I vote for the person not the party.

There are two valid choices. That is not perfect but that is what it is.

I could care less about red or blue. In fact I really dislike politics and most of the people who cover politics.

Politicians in general are lying, conniving, hypocrites who will do anything to stay in power. You can make a very long list of politicians who committed crimes.

The hidden list that will never appear are all the ones who have been bribed. Or, held accountable for quid pro quo.

I can look at politics selfishly. Whoever, is voted to any office does not make a difference in my yard.

Normally I don't care this much. But trump needs to be stopped because he is bad for the world not just for the US. He has proven to be incompetent and morally unfit.

There can be no clearer choice between the two even though Biden is far from ideal.

I can’t recall any president that has ever been that close to Ideal.

Yeah, I agree with your take for the most part. (I'm not sure quite what you're meaning by two valid choices)

Perfect isn't an Independent, though. And his take seemed to illustrate the effects that I had mentioned better than if I had tried to carefully craft an example.

The problem in a nutshell.

What! lol …an Ideal president is a folly. We’re all human. Saying both sides of the aisle have equal faults in today’s political realm is an outright lie. I’m not going to list the multitude of examples because it would fill pages here of the evilness of the Maga gopers of today.

Valid from the standpoint of having a chance to win.

No elected politician from either party has represented all that I believe in.

We are mostly given a choice of "A" or "B."

There have been many times I had to hold my nose while voting.

Frankly as long as trump is not elected; I don't really care that much.

He is the worst president the country has ever had by a long shot. Putting him in office will do more harm to every citizen including those who support him.

He is on the same level as MTG except he is a criminal to boot.

No one said they had to be ideal. Closer to it would be nice. In the case of Trump, one would hope it would be really hard not to do. Alas, it seems more off the deep end Trump is still a possibility. An actual "good" candidate to oppose him would seem to make that possibility less likely. Why people want to support Biden instead of doing that, I will never understand.

No one said equal, but you. Doing some of the same things doesn't mean doing everything the same.

I think you mean viable rather than valid. I don't think I will ever consider Trump a valid (having a sound basis in logic) choice. Honestly, I'm not sure viable really works either.

It's more we're given 2 choices that are presented as being possible. Their being good or their chance of performing their duties "successfully" doesn't really seem to come into it any more, if it ever did.

Sometimes I can't help but feel that Trump was foisted on us by both parties to lower expectations, and lead people to accept worse and worse "better options."

If you expect to get killed, only getting robbed isn't so bad.

People support Biden because he’s our president and he beat trump and got him out of the WH and back on his toilet.

You say that like it is a good reason to continue to support someone. It's a [censored] reason (sticking to your toilet theme.)

Edit: From a logic of the argument standpoint, that's pretty much the same as saying the terrorists we supported overthrew the hostile government. Yay, terrorists!

I'm not trying to say you support terrorists. Just that that hyperbolic "argument" uses the same logic.

He should have been impeached by the Senate. It was a gross failure by the Republican party to not impeach him for what he did. The hearings proved his culpability. We would not be here if the Senate was not so spineless.

Access Hollywood should have sunk him. Hilary was a bad candidate. It created the perfect storm for an unqualified option.

As a convicted felon facing three more indictments. How can anyone justify voting for him.

In the document case he is guilty as sin. Jan 6th is the real case of his true identity. Let alone his failure to act and save lives.

More than trump being who has proven himself to be. Is that it is so disappointing that he has any support.

"Tribal loyalty" is deeply ingrained as a survival mechanism. Not everyone can rise above their instincts. (And no one is completely free of them)

But, yes. It is not hard to see that as disappointing.

You make supporting our president sound like a sin. But whatever. He beat Trump once he’ll do it again. And that’s what matters most.

It's odd how a 12 member jury not only saw and understood the crimes, but came up with s conviction in 14 hours of deliberations on all counts but you can't see it. Now that's what's interesting.

§ 175.10 Falsifying business records in the first degree.

A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree
when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second
degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit
another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.

Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.

Let's clarify it then. Anyone who defies a subpoena for six months by refusing to turn over classified documents to the point the FBI has to conduct a search warrant to retrieve them would be sitting in jail.

Committing crimes is the biggest difference. And yes, maybe trump's personality helps facilitate those actions.

Is that what they did when the showed up with fake printed docs and folders for the photo op? Seems like it was pre-planned as a (banana, banana, banana, banana) media stunt. Did we ever get an excuse for why they printed a bunch of fake docs for the photo? Or has that also been swept under the rug?

That's why they call us humans. Only a very select few human beings are anything close to "ideal". And the biggest problem I can see is anyone who is close to ideal wouldn't want their life put under a microscope and dissected the way the media does today. They will go after their family, make up and manufacture anything they can find and form it into a weapon. It's hard for me to believe any ideal human being would subject themselves and their family to that.

You're into all of those full blown conspiracy theories now? But I'm not surprised by that...............

Unsupported claim: The FBI might be wrongly describing empty folders as actual documents

Trump claimed in January 2023 that the FBI might “perhaps” have inaccurately described empty folders that agents found at Mar-a-Lago with classification markings on them – perhaps wrongly describing these folders as actual documents, “which they are not.” (He said he saved the empty folders as a “‘cool’ keepsake.”)

Facts First: There is no evidence that the FBI has wrongly described empty folders. In fact, the Justice Department’s detailed inventory of the items seized at Mar-a-Lago – an inventory submitted in court by a senior FBI agent under penalty of perjury – explicitly lists “empty folders” separately, distinguishing them from the government documents that were recovered. The inventory lists 103 government documents with classification markings, hundreds of government documents without classification markings, and 88 empty folders – including 46 empty folders that had “CLASSIFIED” banners on them. None of the government documents is just an empty folder, according to the inventory.

It is theoretically possible that there are errors in the inventory; the Justice Department filed a revised version in September that made minor changes to the original inventory that was filed in August, which the government explained it had needed to complete in a single business day. But the revised version and the original version listed the same number of government documents with classification markings, 103, and the revised version had only a small change to the number of empty folders with classified banners, putting it at 46 instead of the original claim of 48.

Unsupported claim: The feds might have planted evidence

Trump has repeatedly floated the idea the FBI or Justice Department might have planted evidence or might proceed to plant evidence.

He suggested on his social media platform in August 2022 that it was suspicious that the FBI would not allow witnesses, such as his lawyers, to be in the rooms being searched at Mar-a-Lago and “see what they were doing, taking or, hopefully not, ‘planting.’” In September 2022, Trump said in a television interview on Fox: “Did they drop anything into those files, or did they do it later?”

Facts First: Nobody has provided any evidence that anyone has planted anything at Mar-a-Lago or amid the items seized at Mar-a-Lago. Despite Trump’s own claims, Trump’s legal team has never argued in a court filing that the FBI or Justice Department planted evidence – even when it was given an explicit opportunity to do so. It is routine, not suspicious, for searches to be conducted without witnesses such as lawyers being in the room; lawyers don’t have a right to watch.

The claim about items possibly having been planted is impossible to definitively debunk at this point, and it is obviously impossible to debunk a claim about what might happen in the future. But Trump and his team have provided zero evidence to support their insinuations on this subject. Before an appeals court stopped a special master review of the seized items in late 2022, Trump’s lawyers resisted an effort by the special master to have them say in a sworn court declaration whether they believed the official inventory included items that were not actually seized from Mar-a-Lago – in other words, if they believed phony items were inserted into the evidence. A judge then ruled that they didn’t have to make this declaration.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/08/politics/fact-check-trump-claims-documents-investigation/index.html

That's the first I had ever heard of there being any fake documents.

Yeeassss. I believe CNN over court filings. 😵‍💫

I'll give you all day to admit you're wrong as Jack Smith's FBI team and Jay Bratt (DOJ) have all admitted the fake cover "Secret" and "Top Secret" papers were planted.


FBI Brought Props To Stage Infamous Trump Crime Scene Photo



Goalposts in 3... 2... 1...

Holy smokes you are really underwater.

Damn unbelievable.

You never answered what would it take for you to give up on him.

I guess you do need to answer.

Seriously, I find that sad and I being truthful.

Blank pages aren't fake documents. If someone were actually trying to stage the photo they wouldn't put blank paged in the photo. Each document was catalogued as to what they were and what was contained in them. But you know, anything to try and support trump while undermining law enforcement and the court system.

First. What is "underwater".

Second. I don't need to answer to you. You're not my mother.

trump quote:

“If she were to win this election it would create an unprecedented constitutional crisis,” Trump said in Reno. “In that situation we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial. It would grind government to a halt.”

Nobody needs to move any goalposts to see what you claim as a source. Who you are really undermining here is the FBI. Just like you undermine the court system when it comes to trump. You'll search for anything you can to undermine anything or anyone when it comes to your desperation to support trump.

I said all the documents that say "Secret" and "Top Secret" are fake.

They are.

Fact.

End of story.

Grow up and face the truth.

You obviously wouldn't know the facts of they bit you in the ass..........

The claim: The FBI may have planted evidence

Trump lawyer Alina Habba said on Fox on August 9: “I’m concerned that they may have planted something; you know, at this point, who knows?” The next day, Trump suggested on social media that it was shady that the FBI would not allow witnesses, such as his lawyers, to be in the rooms being searched and “see what they were doing, taking or, hopefully not, ‘planting.’”

Facts First: There is zero evidence that the FBI planted anything at Mar-a-Lago. And it is routine, not suspicious, for searches to be conducted without witnesses such as lawyers being in the room; lawyers don’t have a right to watch.

The claim about possible “planting” is impossible to definitively debunk at this point. Once more, though, Trump and his allies have not shown even a hint of proof that it is true.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/01/politics/fact-check-trump-claims-fbi-search/index.html

Making up your own truth and presenting it as fact is all the rage right now and you seem to be following that trend.

So you are then saying fake documents were not planted?

You, literally, need help. Please seek such help.

Thanks for addressing the question.

But then I'm not surprised by that.

You fall asleep, bro?

How am I "underwater"?

Because of the most recent facts I splattered on the screen right before your above post?


I assume you didn't know about the fake photo op? Or you didn't bother to read my post and just wanted to go off on some TDS?