DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski sign contract extensions with the Browns

happy birthday buddy!

Glad you are still around Bone

Bone...some years back I remember you talking about your exercise routine..swimming laps..and I thought at the time..now this is a guy who's going to live a long time. But like you pointed out, we never know when our time will come.

All of your hard work, swimming/exercise and your dedication toward doing as much as you could to live a long, healthy
life...IT BOUGHT YOU A SECOND CHANCE!

I would be thankful if I received a second chance..!




Bone...this part, concerning the Browns..all of us have our hopes and dreams but what happens with the Browns, the only Pro-team some of us have ever supported..some who are paid a remarkable amount to run the Browns franchise simply do not care as much as some Browns fans do.

Having a background in football, sports management and how to judge and how to treat players...those are just a few of the basic qualities needed to build a successful franchise. Some NFL owners are successful businessmen who judge their success or failure based on the amount of money their franchises are able to accumulate under their leadership.

I don't know if the Browns will ever figure out how to build a winning franchise...there are plenty of examples available that the Browns owners could try to emulate, copy or use as an example, if the Browns were interested in building a winning, successful franchise...the 49ers..the LIONS..the BRONCOS...just to name a few NFL franchises that have found a way to succeed.

...but, they sure could write a library of books on what not to do to build a winning NFL franchise.

Under the Haslam ownership beginning seven games into the 2012 season, Jimmy and Dee Haslam have a record of 44-94-1 and through the end of the 2020 regular season.

Some Browns fans simply care more than maybe they should.

You make it sound as if everyone had to be on the same page for the Browns to sign watson. That any sound of decent would have derailed that trade. I highly doubt that. I'm not saying whether a unanimous decision was made or not. But it wasn't needed. What I don't believe happened is that Stefanski went to the higher ups and requested they get watson. The FO and owner are the decision makers. I would certainly say they asked Stefanski if he felt he could work with watson and my guess would be that Stefanski said yes.

But this is a analytics driven team in terms of decision making. We've seen it with drafting players who have high SPARQ scores even when other statistics may not indicate they should be drafted at their draft position. Maybe you think that Stefanski saying that watson would be fine is the same as being part of the decision making. If that's so I misunderstood your intentions. But the analytics and stats combined with the ability to manage the cap with such a contract were the deciding factors. The fact Haslam felt the Browns would have a shot at the SB with watson at QB was another one.

Happy Birthday, Bone. Thanks for sharing that story. Glad you pulled through.

I think if any of the 3 had voiced serious doubts then the deal gets nixed.

This.

Belated Birthday wishes Bone ...

I agree with Jester - if there had been serious reservations the deal doesn't get pushed up the ladder for sign off by JH. The one thing I feel good about regarding the FO is that they genuinely seem to be 100% on the same page and pulling in the same direction.

Our GM must take the majority of the blame.


$230m guaranteed is insane but what's worse is you can seriously question his hunger, his leadership skills and his commitment. That's qualities that should be a given when the organization is investing five years of their future.

I can't find one single expectation that Watson so far has exceed.
Thats's really depressing and that's why the majoroty of the blame fall on the doorstep of Berry's office.

I don't disagree with that portion of the debate. But I think it's a pretty fair distance between not showing serious doubts and full support. Like I said, it seems the two biggest factors were first and foremost would be the analytics. This FO has made it plain that nothing happens without a thorough review of the analytics. Secondly would be a the salary cap implications and if they could manage the cap having given watson such a contract. There isn't a single corporation anywhere that does not also consider the risk verses the reward.

Do I think Stefanski signed off on watson? Sure I do. But at that point the FO and ownership had decided to move on from Mayfield and watson certainly appeared to be a better option than anything else on the market at the time. I mean if you look at the numbers and ignore the man aspect. Hopefully they have learned that the numbers alone don't tell the entire story.

I agree with most of it but I still question the lack of proper due diligence and that's the responsibility of the FO

Forget about the money and look at the player on the field and we haven't even got 1/3 back of what we invested.

Looking at the fact he decided to sit on the bench for an entire season in Houston might have been a clue they should have looked at closer. That and all of the accusations. Sometimes numbers alone don't tell the entire story.

100% this.

There were at that time so many red flags surrounding Watson that it was a crazy decision from my perspective.

Whew…they got their deals done before having to admit their stupidity in the Watson deal.

What we saw yesterday against the Raiders was a disjointed team who wasn’t prepared and some of them wasn’t even fully committed. Four games into the season this is unacceptable.
This isn’t the first time Stefanski has failed to prepare a suitable game plan, his players and make sure all of them are mentally in the right place.

Another worrying issue is our inability ability to close winnable games. We had plenty of opportunities against both the Giants and the Raiders but our “win at all cost”mentality wasn’t there. Our team lacks leaders. Who’s our alpha, the undisputed leader who demand excellence and accountability?

Who’s is our natural born leader who lead by example, encourages teammates and make sure everybody is on their front feet’s and ready to fight?

Stefanski?
Watson?

Myles Garrett has the physical presence of an alpha but mentally he’s still a sheep looking for his sheep herder to guide him.

Andrew Berry has now been a GM for nearly four years and he still hasn’t created a winning mentality inside his organization. That’s also a huge failure.

If this organization wants to take the next step and long term challenge the very best they need leaders, real leaders who has the leadership skills, mentality and the hunger to belong to the very best.

Right now we don’t have these qualities inside the Browns organization.

I wish more understood this.. There is noone on this team to rally around. You look at sidelines and they are just sitting on the bench, head in a towel, not engaged. Garrett is a good player but he's not a leader. We need someone like Ray Lewis, or hell Baker Mayfield.. Someone to get this team fired up.. this team looks like they are just going through the motions

This Berry/Stefanski marriage is 4 games into it's 5th year. The combined record of our opponents (not counting victories against us) is 2-11. We are 1-3 against them. Outside of Watson playing a little better, there's no sign things are going to improve.

They wouldn't be able to cheer.

They'd all be in casts braces and on the injured list.

It is Cleveland ya know !

Not necessary. Our defense is a top 3 dance troupe.

I once listened to a speech from a great leader who said something like this... some will like it, others not so much


Demanding excellency and accountability makes no sense without a why.
And a purpose with why.

Why do we give this everything we have?
Why do we strive to get better?
Why do we hold ourselves and our teammates accountable?
Why do we want to win at all cost?


Apart from being a GM and a HC our leadership must give our players a vision and selling them a dream.

Why the Cleveland Browns?
Being a Brown must mean something!

Great leaders sell dreams.

Henry Ford didn't only sell a car, he sold America a dream.
Winston Churchill didn't just ask his soldiers to die for nothing. He gave them a purpose, a dream.
Steve Jobs didn't sell a mobile phone, he sold what it could do for us. A tool to explore the world. He sold a dream.

The first step to excellency and accountability is to create a purpose.
Why should I want to be the best.
Why is it so important to win at all cost.
Why win with the Cleveland Browns?

Berry and Stefanski has totally failed with these things.

They don't inspire when talking.
They don't explain why being a Browns is the most important thing in the world.
The don't give us dreams, something to be proud about.

Without a purpose it's hard to demand excellency and accountability.

This is exactly why the Cleveland Browns needs a leader who has a dream.
Who's not satisfied with being the second best.
Who don't sleeps at night after a loss.

We need someone who points out where to go and why!

Why do you only post here when things are seemingly bad with the team?

Easy answer. Why should I complain when we win?
When we win I enjoy listening to Quincy, watching good sports shows on YT and read a lot of the comments on this forum.

When we lose is when I have strong opinions because I’m disappointed.

If you look at it long term we’re on downward trajectory.
Our best players aren’t getting younger.

A lot of todays problems is because of bad decision makings.
Losing three 1st rd picks in a row is costly. The rest of our recruitment’s in the draft and FA is more miss than hits.
Mistakes are repeated.

We lack leaders. Our winning culture inside the locker room is questionable. That’s a fact and the results backs it up.

I don’t think Stefanski and Berry has what it takes to improve this organization to the same level as the very best teams.
They’re not bad but I don’t see a long term vision. Watson is on his third year.

I have a hard time seeing us getting better the next couple years.
In my opinion a lot of this is down to bad leadership, lack of discipline and a weak culture without accountability.

Don’t lose faith bone!
You’re worth enjoying success and to celebrate with friends and family. Just don’t lose faith my friend.

So you're far more motivated by the negative than the positive.

I took it as he relishes in the positive but has to vent with the negative.
I perfectly reasonable stance

My only complaint about this is that Ski’s O seems to take 4-6 weeks every year to gel and start looking PRO. The D does some of this too. But unless yesterday was a fluke for DW, he was woefully unprepared for the season.

In 2023 the Browns won their opening game beating the Bengals 24-3. They won 3 of their first 5 games and beating the 49'ers in game 5. Frustration can sometimes get the best of us.

Have Andrew Berry made visible improvements in;


- the recruitment process?
- signing FA’s and made trades in a economical efficient way?
- created a healthy environment built on discipline, dedication and accountability?
- have he formed a vision and a long term goal for the organization?

How many of his FA signings can be labeled as a success?

Have he in general recruited the best possible option on key positions?

Is handling our cap space well?

Is he making the right key decisions?

How is he handle conflicts with his coaches and players?


Judging solely by a results to spending ratio his achievement is from my perspective underwhelming.

I don’t see us having a healthy players environment.

What’s the Cleveland Browns vision for the future according to Berry both short and long term? (become better or winning games isn’t a vision, that’s a job description)
Do we know that?

If we can’t answer these questions properly it’s time to question his long term future as a GM with Browns.

THAT coming from YOU might be the funniest thing I've read all year.

That's actually good question who deserves an answer.

Short answer is yes!

I'm going to watch live hockey soon at my local arena but I will come back to you when the game is over.

My local team who're on a six game winning streak is normally a typical underachievers so you can bet I'm highly critical against their leadership.
I know the GM of the club and he's a typical bullshi##er but this is a small town with only 140 000 citizens so as long its free beers in the bar nobody complains.

We're at the moment top of the table in the second division in my country but I expect things to change - to the worse. Bad habits is hard to change.

You seem confused by thinking that people who look to and present the facts are negative. Sometimes facts may appear negative. But only when you don't like the facts presented.