DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski sign contract extensions with the Browns

The organization lead by Berry and Stefanski had a golden opportunity after the 2020/21 season to transform the Browns into something really special.
The majority of the foundations was laid down at the right places and if they have just trusted the process and let players mature and let them developed things could have looked so much better today.

One of the things our leadership couldn’t fully handle was players with character and attitude.

Berry and Stefanski are typical beta characters. Diplomatic leaders with a low intensity approach to both humans and how to communicate. None of them are great talkers and they almost never seem them talk straight forward in definitive terms in either interviews or press conferences.

Both of them seem to prefer developed players instead of nurturing young talents into seasoned pros.
How many young talents have been developed into stars by Stefanski since 2020?

When they made the decision to trade for Watson they lost me.

Not only because I dislike him as a human but because how amateurish our organization handled that whole process.
They bet on the wrong horse and gambled with our future without a clear long term plan how we should move forward.
The notion that we were only a franchise QB away from a Super Bowl was a delusional dream from our leadership.
Our roster lacked depth and giving away so many draft picks was short sighted and stupid.

I’m sure that Andrew Berry can develop into a decent GM with time but right now he has been part of a leadership that has gambled away a golden opportunity for this organization to succeed.

To answer your question about being motivated by negativity it’s partly correct.

When I see so much craziness I get frustrated and want to ventilated it somewhere.
If you look at my history as a poster on this board you can see that I had this negative thoughts about Berry and our future already in 2022. If you go back to 2020 I was much more positive and most of my posts were about enjoying our games and how I looked forward to the future.
My best moment on this forum was when I sang and danced “Corvette Corvette” and shared my feelings with other Browns fans.

I really missed those days.

I certainly won't disagree that the Browns seem to have seasons that let the fans down right after they have a season that gives the fans hope. You see a season like last year and it causes you to feel they had a season they could use as motivation to build on. Then we witness what we seen have this season. That is discouraging and upsetting to say the least. So it's not like I don't get it, I do.

As for how someone does when speaking in public? I don't take anything away from that. I have known people with very dynamic personalities that aren't good public speakers. I have also rarely seen any NFL, NBA or MLB coach speak without dodging some of the tough questions. Those pressers and interviews are nothing more than PR and some people just aren't good public speakers. That doesn't tell us much about how they are in private.

And if you think you didn't like the watson deal? Just look at my sig. So we're very much on the same page there.

I'll just say that I loved last season! After watson went down nobody gave us a chance at a winning season much less making the playoffs. Stefanski managed to take a guy the Jet's didn't even want as a backup anymore, who 30 other NFL teams didn't think was worthy of being on their roster and ran a system to accentuate his strengths that somehow led this team into the playoffs. I don't expect everyone to agree with me but it seemed like a feat of monumental proportions to me. And doing it without watson at the QB position was just icing on the cake as far as I'm concerned.

I guess maybe it's from me getting older but when looking back at my life I realized that it's the hard times and trials of life that makes me appreciate the good times in life. If everything in my life had been perfect I wouldn't have learned the lessons I needed. I would have come to expect that perfection was the normal course of things and have taken the best of times for granted. It has made me appreciate the yin and yang of things when it comes to life in general.

It sure would be nice if that didn't apply to my pastime that I spend my week-ends watching for relaxation. But after so many decades of this I've grown to expect that too. I no longer have false expectations and that helps.

The crucial question is who’s going to lead us out of this nightmare and come up with a plan how to move forward?

Solving the Watson dilemma is just the first step.
We soon need to make a decision what to do with our older players. Let them run their contacts down or trade and get some new draft picks.

Who’s steering the wheels on this giant ship? Who’s our undisputed leader? If it’s Jimmy we can kiss our future goodbye and find a new hobby the next years or so.

Analytics is something necessary at this level but when numbers has to much impact and we seems to underestimate human factors then we need to find a new formula how to make crucial decisions and sign FA and draft young players.

Andrew Berry has done a lot of good things but he has also made mistakes. Unfortunately too many. His decision makings must be questioned. His leadership skills also has his shortcomings. In a well run organization that kind of leadership maybe works but not in a dysfunctional NFL franchise who underperform more or less every second year.

Kevin Stefanski is normally good HC but….. he’s not a natural leader who can take command and steer the ship when there is a storm. He’s way too passive and diplomatic for that. Kevin needs a strong hand above him to function in an optimal way.

So when will our leadership react and make changes?

Changes will come when the embarrassment at the product on the field exceeds the embarrassment of admitting that the QB upgrade-attempt was an enormous mistake.

I agree with your post 100% Bone. Admit the mistake. They don't have to come right out and say it. It can merely be stated that DW is not playing well, obviously, and we need to sit him down at this point to get back on the right track. Anything would be better at this point. This has been the worse QB play since we've come back and that's saying a Lot!!!!

I really wish they'd just fake a Watson injury, put him on IR and let him fade away until the draft next year

That would only work if you think watson would stay silent about it. If not it would only complicate the drama. I consider that a pretty risky proposition.

Very good points from all of you.

Maybe I’m too old to understand everything that’s going on in the world today but I suspect that Berry and Stefanski is part of the new generation who almost never accept accountability or admit guilt.

Just look at the whole Harvard fiasco with Claudia Gay, they’re all products who’s educated and shaped inside a similar woke culture.
They says everything but nothing they say has any meaningful substance. Just word sallads without an end.

I can see Jimmy and Dee Haslam do some kind of admission but they have enough fukk off money to survive whatever criticism they receive but….the other guys… Nah.

Stefanski didn't sign watson to a contract. He isn't one of those who decided to marry themselves to him.

If you Google the press conference when they introduced our poster boy or search for some articles from that time he seems rather invested in this trade judging from my perspective.

I simply don’t believe in the narrative that he was a little lukewarm in the beginning, nixi dix.
Just because he wasn’t personally involved when Watson’ signed the contract I’m 100% sure he gave his blessing before they decided to finalize the deal.
Five years is a long time of you’re not fully committed.

You do understand that press conferences are nothing but public relation statements meant to make everything look good, correct? What did you expect Stefanski to say? "I didn't want this guy but they signed him anyway"? I'm not saying he didn't want an upgrade at QB. He and Baker's relationship was on shaky ground. I'm not even saying he didn't agree to watson coming here.

But let's be clear here, Stefanski is not in charge of contracts. He is not in charge of who gets signed. He is not in charge of deciding the parameters of any trade. It was in no way up to him to give watson a guaranteed 230 million and give up three first round draft picks and more. It wasn't up to him that even after watson refused the Browns offer and said he refused to be traded to the Browns that the FO went back and even offered him more. Just remember that it was you who posted this......


And when someone decides to place blame on someone who was in no way in charge of or responsible for making such decisions, what do you call that?

Every day human nature.

If the Browns is a serious franchise then all executives has to be on board when deciding to finalize the deal.

Haslams has to approve to invest fresh money to cover the escrow and eventual other additional costs.
Our chief strategist Depodesta has to run his numbers and then give his blessings.
Berry’s job is to conduct the due diligence and all the other background checks that’s necessary and make sure our salary cap can handle such a big contract.
Stefanski has to give his OK from a coach perspective that Watson has all the qualities necessary that can make us take the final step and become a SB contender. (wasn’t that the goal?)

There’s no other way for the owners to push forward such a mega trade without having total consensus from the organization’s executives.
Jimmy is probably a direct owner who wants to be part of the decisions but his holding company has lawyers and advisers who’s experienced enough to make sure that the decision process has been done properly. He just can’t release so much money from his fortune without necessary documents and total agreements from all decision makers inside the Browns organization.

Even rich people has restrictions how they can handle their own means without fulfilling all legal and financial requirements necessary.

When it comes to Stefanski he’s probably the most important person inside the organization because he’s the one who’s going to work with Watson so without his OK I can’t see this deal go through.

With that said I’m with you that what Kevin thinks privately and in public is two different things. I don’t envy him.

The head coach is not an executive. Coaches are not a part of the executive staff. The FO and their personal staff are the executives. None of them need Stefanski's seal of approval to make their decisions.

Stefanski made it clear that even now he confers with the GM in regards to whether watson remains the starter or not.

That certainly doesn't sound like this FO consides him
Stefanki is simply another employee who works under the FO/executives. I'm sure they ask for his input but that's one ingredient of it not the one who makes such deicsions.

So if Stefanksi said it was okay to sign watson you believe he is responsible for the ultimate decision? And are you telling me that every move this FO makes it takes total consensus? So if Haslam wants to make a move the only way he does it is if everyone else agrees with him? Seriously?

There really is zero doubt on whose responsibility it was to make the call on this. It's Berry and Haslam.

The head coach is not responsible for their decisions.

Let’s agree to disagree on a few things.
Maybe all my experience sitting in board rooms is outdated but let’s ask Oxford Languages about the word

executive.

adjective
relating to or having the power to put plans or actions into effect.

a person with senior managerial responsibility in a business


None of the executives is totally responsible for such a big decision. They’re consulted to share expertise and voice their opinion.
No sane franchise NFL owner approve $230m guaranteed without fully knowing that his head coach is comfortable with the deal. The same person who’s the play caller and who’s going to communicate on game days with the new QB, is in charge of all the other coaches including our OC and DC.

Do you really think that Stefanski was invited to the initial press conference if he wasn’t part of the decision making? Really.

Hopefully our disagreement is just a misunderstanding because English isn’t my first language and I’m used to Scandinavian management descriptions.
I’m not blaming all on Kevin and think he’s totally responsible for a joint decision but at the same time I’m not absolving him from accountability.

Is that a controversial take on this?

If you wish to use the word executive you may wish to look at how you contextualized its meaning.


Making trades, deciding what to offer a player you are trying to sign, the final decision to sign that player or not nor the content of the contract itself are in any way are a description of the HC "executives" job.

Each part of this organization has things they are solely responsible for. Each decision is made based on input from other people. How many people do you plan to blame for the decision agreed upon between Berry and Haslam whose actual job description is to make those decisions?

Can you show me anywhere that it is in any way a part of Stefnaski's job description to make decisions about signing players?

I guess I simply find his entire premise somewhat confusing.

You pay one man to make these decisions and one man only. He is solely responsible to make the ultimate decision. Nobody else is and it's he and the owner who had the ultimate say in this matter.

Corporate structure has its pecking order in regards to responsibilities and control. Everyone has a boss and you answer to the boss above you. On an NFL football team you have the owner who has the ultimate and final say. Some owners choose to relinquish that power and leave it up to their GM. The second in command is the GM. Everyone hired as his subordinates are hand picked by him. And yes, everyone who works under him are his subordinates. He hired them and they are his responsibility because he chose them himself to their respective positions to carry out the duties he deemed they were qualified to do.

I know that there have been jobs in my life where I had to make the decisions. Where the owner of a company depended on me to make a lot of the calls for his business. I can't imagine all the hell I would have gotten if I had made such a huge mistake and tried to play the blame game by trying to make my decisions the fault of the subordinates that worked for me. To me that's the very definition of passing the buck. It was my job to make those decisions. That was part of my job description. Not the job description or decision of the foremen who worked under me. There was the owner, then me and then everyone else.

I see this situation exactly the same way.

This below isn’t personal against any of you but I’m just getting so irritated when I think about these morons making stupid decisions.

Anyway…. As soon you ask for Stefanski’s opinion then what’re they going to do if they don’t like his answer. Let him take charge of a 230million investment and continue making the play calls with a QB he doesn’t like?

Secondly and maybe more importantly.

Saying that Deshaun Watson was considered a top QB is only valid if you don’t include his personal problems, all the allegations and his conflict with the Texans into consideration. That gives the impression that this was a safe deal.

That’s a highly subjective assumption not built on all public information available. I’m not saying that he was a bad player with the Texans but when you factor everything else he has gone through then a different picture is accruing. When the Browns entered the negotiations he was already damaged goods.

Berry could have phoned the nearest psychiatrist and they would have told him what’s normal to expect from such a questionable personality.
Those who claim otherwise haven’t properly done their homework.

If the Browns have traded him for a maximum of one first round pick in 2022 and give him a contract similar to what Baker got from the Bucs it would be described as a deal worth taking, Now it’s known as one of the worst trades in the history of the NFL.

(if he and the Texans had refused such a offer then we should have moved on, take a latte, chilled, listen to Prince - Little Red Corvette - or whatever, just don’t sign the stupidest contract ever in the NFL history and gamble away 5-6 years of the organization’s future)

Corporate structure and pecking order

Where does JW and Paul DePodesta fit in this order ?

I feel there are too many voices in the cluster F of Corporate Structure in the [censored] hole in Berea, who knows nothing about football.

You keep trying to blame someone for the decision who had zero authority to make the decision. I have no idea why anyone would try to do that. The HC does not have the authority to make the decision to sign any player. That authority strictly lies with the GM and owner. Nobody else.

But that's often times the way things work out. The HC ends up being the fall guy for poor decisions of the GM. Often times the HC ends up being the sacrificial lamb for a GM that made some terrible decisions.

I blame th man who gets paid to make such decisions and not the subordinates who work under him. You seem to feel differently about that.

Hold the horses now.
I was probably one of the first on this forum to voice my concerns about our new GM. If someone is going to be the scapegoat after all this then you have my guy right here..

Not in any shape or form do I solely blame Stefanski for this cluster fffkk. not even close.

In my book the chain of command is following.

1. Jimmy Boy and his sidekick Kicki Dee.
2. Smartest guy in the room
3. Kevin Stefanski

Then we have our Holy Ghost who seems to have a direct line to Jimmy Boy and there you probably have the root to all evils surrounding the Browns.
If someone is going to follow Berry through the exit door it’s Depodesta.

Technically you’re right that the owner and the GM has the legal authority but in reality they’re both dependent on getting the HC’s approval otherwise they had to find a new HC before it was time to present our new savior.

Only if the HC refused to coach watson.

You don't make a move like giving Watson the largest guaranteed contract in history without everyone being on board.

Everyone.

My fear is that Berry is too weak to make the necessary changes. As it stands we’re going nowhere with Watson as our QB and I’m not sure we can keep Myles another season if this continues. Imagine having another Amari Cooper situation next season with our best player that’s sulking and wants to be traded.

How long do you think Stefanski will survive if we end the season with only 3-4 wins?

My bet is we'll find out, cause 3-4 wins is looking iffy right now.

All things considered, I’d keep KS if it means we can get rid of Berry/Depo. I believe they are the biggest issues holding this team back

To your point, I don't trust Berry/Depo to select our next QB. They were clearly all-in on Watson for Stefanski.

I do wonder if we can get by with Stefanski. He's shown he's able to make lemonade from lemons in terms of FA QBs.

Get this offense healthy and get back to what they were made to do (run the ball and then PA) and then go out and have some fun.

I agree.

All probably started with Kevin who told Berry he needed a QB because he couldn't work with Baker or to some degree, Baker couldn't work with Kevin. Just call it mutual.

Berry then asked Kevin if he could work with and want Watson.

At that point is when the owner is brought in to the picture. You don't go to the company owner with this idea until you are sure it could possibly happen and have some idea of the potential cost.

Berry isn't going to walk in to the CEO's office with such a plan unprepared to answer a few basic details.

Ah damn, I saw the beginning part of the title to this thread on my phone and thought.... Oh yes! Maybe we made a move and it said "Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski Fired."

Shucks, it got my hopes up!

Quincy’s biggest problem with Berry and Stefanski

Agree 100%.

I said this almost 3 seasons ago when they mishandled Baker. At some point people will see them for who they’re.

something is going to have to give ... and SOON. This can't go on IMO. If Haslam wants to fire AB and KS, then fine. If he wants to tell them to sit Watson, then fine. But the organization can't continue this path.

I agree, at this point regardless of what anyone feels about KS, KD, AB or watson or whoever is to blame, Given what we have seen this season, that no action has been taken in any regard to try to rectify and save the season. Inaction is the sign of bad management.

Just saw a Tampa Bay hi-lite,a running play, and Baker makes a downfield block.Analytically means nothing,but to his temamates it means everything.A team needs football players,not robotic athletes.

As I said a while back. What this team lacks is HEART, guts, and a passion for NOT losing.

Question for you GM - an not disputing your posts above in any way - just curious if you know how high Depo was on DW? When we were in pursuit and before the actual trade there were some 'next level' stats that got thrown around about DW in Houston.... I don't remember any of them now but they were things like: 3rd down conversions when losing in the 4th Q, completion % in the last 5 minutes of a game when coming from behind to win .... stuff that I assumed Depo would be all over and therefore I have always assumed Depo was one of the people most high on DW. But you know what assuming gets you.

DEPO does not MAKE football decisions. I have made that clear on here.