If by trolling you mean pointing out your BS, yes, I am once again trolling you.
You're one of the biggest trolls on here. You wrap it up well and sometimes dress it up, but most of your posts are baiting and trolling. Kamala is a Marxist.... Yeah. Coz u said so, riiiight.
Most of my posts are in response to trolls. The stink of association can be hard to wash off.
What is Kamala's approach to economics? How would you define it?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Your new argument is never the same as your previous argument, no matter how many times you try to claim "that's what I said." You constantly claim to have pointed something out, but no one but you has any idea what you think you were pointing at or are referring to.
You consistently ignore what I pointed out in order to write your own false narrative.
Quote
You didn't claim there's no consistency, you spouted some blatant hypocrisy and falsehoods, and now you are trying to change your story without actually saying anything. Just vague deflections and more lies.
I pointed out that Nixon not only did something similar but even more extreme. I didn't hear any mainstream Republicans calling him a communist. If you can't figure out what that meant it's a you problem. If anyone is lying about that it's you.
Quote
You know what I wrote is accurate, so now you are trying to claim that what I said is what you said. It's rather pathetic-- talk about failing miserably and changing one's tune after the fact. Go figure, more hypocrisy.
You obviously have no idea what accurate means. And this is your petulant child routine every time you lose. When all else fails get nasty and go off on some diatribe attacking the messenger. Why do you act like you're 10 years old every time you get stuck in the corner?
I would like to apologize in advance to all 10 year olds who may be reading this......
It's odd how out of everyone who posts here you're the only one claiming you couldn't understand what I posted. Did you ever stop to wonder why that is? I'll tell you. Because like the others you understood it perfectly.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
What is Kamala's approach to economics? How would you define it?
On whether or not your a troll or a proverbial knight in shining armor putting trolls to rights.... Maybe go back and look at some old posts and how much belittling and name calling you do while also taking in circles..... A bit like this here. You (implied) claimed Kamala was a Marxist and that her approach to economics was Marxist. It's up to YOU to support and prove that.... It's not up to me to disprove it. But I expect no less.
Last edited by mgh888; 08/18/2411:36 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
You (implied) claimed Kamala was a Marxist and that her approach to economics was Marxist. It's up to YOU to support and prove that.... It's not up to me to disprove it. But I expect no less.
So you aren't going to do his homework assignment for him?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Kamala Harris just unveiled her economic plan to 'lower the cost of living.' Would it work — and how does it compare to Trump's? Andrew Romano Andrew Romano·Reporter Fri, August 16, 2024 at 3:31 PM EDT·7 min read 37.3k
During a speech Friday in North Carolina, Vice President Kamala Harris, the Democratic Party’s new presidential nominee, unveiled an aggressively populist economic agenda focused primarily on “lowering the cost of living.”
The speech marked the first time Harris has delved into any significant detail about her governing vision — and clearly tried to differentiate herself on policy from President Biden, the man she recently replaced atop the ticket.
“Today, by nearly every measure, our economy is the strongest in the world,” Harris said. “Still, we know that many Americans don’t yet feel that progress in their lives. Costs are still too high [and] it feels too hard to get ahead.”
A quick guide to what Harris is proposing, and why.
What was at stake for Harris on Friday?
Heading into an election, voters almost always say the economy is their top concern — and that’s especially true today, after pandemic-era disruptions triggered a painful spike in inflation.
But Biden, 81, struggled to connect on the issue. In part that was because he was president when prices shot up; in part it was because, by the time inflation started to fall again, many Americans no longer saw him as competent or commanding enough to deserve much credit; and in part it was because he spent a lot of time focusing instead on the rosier aspects of his economic record, like low unemployment, robust growth and efforts to revive American manufacturing.
Last month’s Biden-to-Harris swap seems to have given Democrats a real chance to reset. Earlier this week, a Financial Times poll showed that about as many Americans now trust Harris on the economy (42%) as trust former President Donald Trump, the Republican nominee (41%). Other surveys have found that “Harris has trimmed between six and nine points off Biden’s previous deficits to Trump on the economy,” according to the Washington Post.
Do these numbers mean that Harris will suddenly dominate Trump on economic issues? No. But they do suggest that voters are at least open to her in a way they weren’t open to Biden. And on Friday, she used that openness as an opportunity to say her economic focus as president would be a little different than Biden’s — and a little more in line with what voters say they want.
“The bills add up,” Harris said. “Food, rent, gas, back-to-school clothes, prescription medication. After that, for many families, there’s not much left at the end of the month.”
“As president,” she continued, “I will take on the high costs that matter most to most Americans.”
What policies did Harris propose?
The vice president and her campaign floated more than a dozen economic policies Friday. They include:
Combating “price gouging” on groceries and food by authorizing the Federal Trade Commission to impose large fines on grocery stores that impose “excessive” price hikes on customers.
Eliminating medical debt for millions of Americans, possibly by using federal funds to buy and forgive outstanding debt from health providers.
Capping the out-of-pocket cost of insulin at $35 per month for all Americans.
Limiting Americans’ annual out-of-pocket spending on prescription drugs to $2,000.
Providing up to $25,000 in down payment support for more than 1 million first-time home buyers.
Calling for the construction of 3 million new housing units over the next four years.
Expanding an existing tax incentive for developers who build affordable rental housing.
Removing tax benefits for Wall Street investors who bulk buy single-family rental homes.
Preventing corporate landlords from using algorithmic price-setting tools to increase rents by large margins.
Passing a child tax credit that would provide $6,000 per child to families for the first year of a baby’s life.
Expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit for lower-wage workers by up to $1,500.
Notice that every one of Harris’s proposals is designed to cut the cost of living — whether in terms of food, medicine, housing or child care. And nearly all of her plans are “populist” as well, involving government intervention against corporate interests on behalf of consumers.
“I know that most businesses are playing by the rules and creating jobs,” Harris said Friday. “But some are not, and we need to take action when that is the case.”
Citing her work to fight corporate price-fixing as California attorney general, Harris vowed to “go after the bad actors” if elected in November.
Progressives have applauded. “Harris has made a set of policy choices over the last several weeks that make it clear that the Democratic Party is committed to a pro working-family agenda,” Felicia Wong, president of the Roosevelt Forward, a left-leaning think tank, told the Washington Post. “The days of ‘What’s good for free enterprise is good for America’ are over.’”
Are Harris's policies new?
Many of Harris’s proposals build on the work of the Biden administration; several go a step further. For instance, the caps on insulin costs and annual out-of-pocket prescription drug spending currently apply to Medicare recipients; Harris would extend them to all Americans. Biden has called for the construction of 2 million housing units over the next four years; Harris is calling for 3 million units. Harris’s $6,000 newborn tax credit is new — but she also wants to revive Biden’s $3,600 child tax credit for lower-income and middle-class families that expired during the pandemic.
Would Harris's policies work?
Harris’s plans to shore up the social safety net and expand the housing supply are generally considered sensible. But mainstream economists have doubts about the efficacy of a price-gouging ban — and they are skeptical that Harris can avoid adding to the deficit without raising taxes on Americans making less than $400,000 a year (which she has vowed not to do). Then there’s Congress to contend with. Unless Harris wins big Democratic margins in the House and Senate, how many of these measures would she actually be able to implement?
What did Harris say about Trump?
Protectionist tariffs are the cornerstone of Trump’s economic agenda. Seeking to give U.S. manufacturers a leg up, the former president has repeatedly called for an across-the-board 10% tax on all foreign imports — and a 60% tax on Chinese goods.
Together, those tariffs could cost a typical middle-income U.S. household an additional $1,700 a year, according to an estimate published by the Peterson Institute for International Economics in May.
Trump “wants to impose what is, in effect, a national sales tax on everyday products and basic necessities,” Harris said Friday. “It will mean higher prices on nearly every one of your daily needs. A Trump tax on gas. A Trump tax on food. A Trump tax on clothes. A Trump tax on over-the-counter medication. … At this moment when everyday prices are too high, he will make them even higher.”
Harris also criticized Trump’s plans to extend his 2017 tax cuts even for high earners and to further lower the corporate tax rate from 21% to 15%.
“If you want to know who someone cares about, look who they fight for,” Harris said. “Donald Trump fights for billionaires and large corporations. I will fight to give money back to working Americans.”
How did Trump respond?
The former president previously claimed that Harris’s economic plans are dangerously liberal.
“She is running on the Maduro plan,” Trump said at a news conference in Bedminster, N.J., on Thursday, referring to Nicolás Maduro, the autocratic left-wing president of Venezuela. “We call it the Maduro plan. Like something straight out of Venezuela or the Soviet Union.”
But according to a recent Data for Progress poll, 77% of Americans — including 87% of Democrats, 80% of independents and 65% of Republicans — agree that the U.S. “should do more to take on corporations that unfairly and illegally raise prices on consumers.”
Anybody with half a brain knows trump is plain stupid on the economy and a host of other issues.
...so? How does Trump's lousy plan have anything to do with Kamala's plan?
Is there a reason you chose an image that didn't show what the numbers mean? and clipped an image from a picture hosting site rather than providing a link that might explain? What was the disclaimer?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
...so? How does Trump's lousy plan have anything to do with Kamala's plan?
Is there a reason you chose an image that didn't show what the numbers mean? and clipped an image from a picture hosting site rather than providing a link that might explain? What was the disclaimer?
If you have to ask these questions then you have no business being involved in this conversation.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Your new argument is never the same as your previous argument, no matter how many times you try to claim "that's what I said." You constantly claim to have pointed something out, but no one but you has any idea what you think you were pointing at or are referring to.
You consistently ignore what I pointed out in order to write your own false narrative.
Quote
You didn't claim there's no consistency, you spouted some blatant hypocrisy and falsehoods, and now you are trying to change your story without actually saying anything. Just vague deflections and more lies.
I pointed out that Nixon not only did something similar but even more extreme. I didn't hear any mainstream Republicans calling him a communist. If you can't figure out what that meant it's a you problem. If anyone is lying about that it's you.
Quote
You know what I wrote is accurate, so now you are trying to claim that what I said is what you said. It's rather pathetic-- talk about failing miserably and changing one's tune after the fact. Go figure, more hypocrisy.
You obviously have no idea what accurate means. And this is your petulant child routine every time you lose. When all else fails get nasty and go off on some diatribe attacking the messenger. Why do you act like you're 10 years old every time you get stuck in the corner?
I would like to apologize in advance to all 10 year olds who may be reading this......
It's odd how out of everyone who posts here you're the only one claiming you couldn't understand what I posted. Did you ever stop to wonder why that is? I'll tell you. Because like the others you understood it perfectly.
You consistently claim to point things out without ever actually pointing anything out.
You complain about one side calling something something "bad" only when the other side does it, then proceeded to do that exact thing you complained about. Your hypocrisy is endless. "Don't call Kamala a communist, that's wrong." (5 seconds later) "Whatabout Comrade Nixon."
No, this is my trying to explain things to someone that acts worse than a tantrum throwing 10 year old who tries to pin his poor actions on everyone else routine. You do owe ten year olds many apologies. Although, you might actually make them look good in comparison.
It's not so much that I can't understand it, it's that it literally contradicts itself. You also refer to having said things that you never actually wrote. No one else bothers to respond to your posts now because they realize it is a waste of time. Unfortunately, I seem to be a masochist, but I think it's time for me to find a more productive way to punish myself than trying to talk sense into you.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
[quote=PerfectSpiral]Anybody with half a brain knows trump is plain stupid on the economy and a host of other issues.
...so? How does Trump's lousy plan have anything to do with Kamala's plan?
Is there a reason you chose an image that didn't show what the numbers mean? and clipped an image from a picture hosting site rather than providing a link that might explain? What was the disclaimer?
It means her plan is better then trumps and it shows.
i’ve seen this posted on a number of different social media outlets. All different sources. The source of the meme is irrelevant. Numbers don’t lie.
Last edited by PerfectSpiral; 08/18/2401:01 PM.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Everyone on the board seemed to understand exactly what was posted but you. Maybe the the only one who needs an explanation is you. Once again you try to blame me for your pretending you among others didn't understand it.
From the very beginning I said that if people are going to claim that Kamala is a communist for using price controls then that would too make Nixon a communist for implementing a wage and price freeze. That's about as easy to understand as one can get.
I also said that capitalism left unchecked led to the abuse of our people. That there needed to be checks and balances in place to prevent that. Now unless someone is a total moron they know what I meant by that and a very basic understanding of American history would tell them that. Everything that has been created and implemented to help every day Americans has been labeled as socialist. Minimum wage, labor laws, Social Security, Medicare, housing vouchers for the poor, food stamps and the list goes on.
The fact that you claim others aren't smart enough to figure out what that means is nothing less that an assault on their intelligence. It shows just how hard you're trying to grasp at straws in an attempt to make an issue where one simply does not exist.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
...so? How does Trump's lousy plan have anything to do with Kamala's plan?
Is there a reason you chose an image that didn't show what the numbers mean? and clipped an image from a picture hosting site rather than providing a link that might explain? What was the disclaimer?
If you have to ask these questions then you have no business being involved in this conversation.
Originally Posted by Jester
Kamala Harris just unveiled her economic plan to 'lower the cost of living.' Would it work — and how does it compare to Trump's? Andrew Romano Andrew Romano·Reporter Fri, August 16, 2024 at 3:31 PM EDT·7 min read 37.3k
During a speech Friday in North Carolina, Vice President Kamala Harris, the Democratic Party’s new presidential nominee, unveiled an aggressively populist economic agenda focused primarily on “lowering the cost of living.”
The speech marked the first time Harris has delved into any significant detail about her governing vision — and clearly tried to differentiate herself on policy from President Biden, the man she recently replaced atop the ticket.
“Today, by nearly every measure, our economy is the strongest in the world,” Harris said. “Still, we know that many Americans don’t yet feel that progress in their lives. Costs are still too high [and] it feels too hard to get ahead.”
A quick guide to what Harris is proposing, and why.
What was at stake for Harris on Friday?
Heading into an election, voters almost always say the economy is their top concern — and that’s especially true today, after pandemic-era disruptions triggered a painful spike in inflation.
But Biden, 81, struggled to connect on the issue. In part that was because he was president when prices shot up; in part it was because, by the time inflation started to fall again, many Americans no longer saw him as competent or commanding enough to deserve much credit; and in part it was because he spent a lot of time focusing instead on the rosier aspects of his economic record, like low unemployment, robust growth and efforts to revive American manufacturing.
Last month’s Biden-to-Harris swap seems to have given Democrats a real chance to reset. Earlier this week, a Financial Times poll showed that about as many Americans now trust Harris on the economy (42%) as trust former President Donald Trump, the Republican nominee (41%). Other surveys have found that “Harris has trimmed between six and nine points off Biden’s previous deficits to Trump on the economy,” according to the Washington Post.
Do these numbers mean that Harris will suddenly dominate Trump on economic issues? No. But they do suggest that voters are at least open to her in a way they weren’t open to Biden. And on Friday, she used that openness as an opportunity to say her economic focus as president would be a little different than Biden’s — and a little more in line with what voters say they want.
“The bills add up,” Harris said. “Food, rent, gas, back-to-school clothes, prescription medication. After that, for many families, there’s not much left at the end of the month.”
“As president,” she continued, “I will take on the high costs that matter most to most Americans.”
What policies did Harris propose?
The vice president and her campaign floated more than a dozen economic policies Friday. They include:
Combating “price gouging” on groceries and food by authorizing the Federal Trade Commission to impose large fines on grocery stores that impose “excessive” price hikes on customers.
Eliminating medical debt for millions of Americans, possibly by using federal funds to buy and forgive outstanding debt from health providers.
Capping the out-of-pocket cost of insulin at $35 per month for all Americans.
Limiting Americans’ annual out-of-pocket spending on prescription drugs to $2,000.
Providing up to $25,000 in down payment support for more than 1 million first-time home buyers.
Calling for the construction of 3 million new housing units over the next four years.
Expanding an existing tax incentive for developers who build affordable rental housing.
Removing tax benefits for Wall Street investors who bulk buy single-family rental homes.
Preventing corporate landlords from using algorithmic price-setting tools to increase rents by large margins.
Passing a child tax credit that would provide $6,000 per child to families for the first year of a baby’s life.
Expanding the Earned Income Tax Credit for lower-wage workers by up to $1,500.
Notice that every one of Harris’s proposals is designed to cut the cost of living — whether in terms of food, medicine, housing or child care. And nearly all of her plans are “populist” as well, involving government intervention against corporate interests on behalf of consumers.
“I know that most businesses are playing by the rules and creating jobs,” Harris said Friday. “But some are not, and we need to take action when that is the case.”
Citing her work to fight corporate price-fixing as California attorney general, Harris vowed to “go after the bad actors” if elected in November.
Progressives have applauded. “Harris has made a set of policy choices over the last several weeks that make it clear that the Democratic Party is committed to a pro working-family agenda,” Felicia Wong, president of the Roosevelt Forward, a left-leaning think tank, told the Washington Post. “The days of ‘What’s good for free enterprise is good for America’ are over.’”
Are Harris's policies new?
Many of Harris’s proposals build on the work of the Biden administration; several go a step further. For instance, the caps on insulin costs and annual out-of-pocket prescription drug spending currently apply to Medicare recipients; Harris would extend them to all Americans. Biden has called for the construction of 2 million housing units over the next four years; Harris is calling for 3 million units. Harris’s $6,000 newborn tax credit is new — but she also wants to revive Biden’s $3,600 child tax credit for lower-income and middle-class families that expired during the pandemic.
Would Harris's policies work?
Harris’s plans to shore up the social safety net and expand the housing supply are generally considered sensible. But mainstream economists have doubts about the efficacy of a price-gouging ban — and they are skeptical that Harris can avoid adding to the deficit without raising taxes on Americans making less than $400,000 a year (which she has vowed not to do). Then there’s Congress to contend with. Unless Harris wins big Democratic margins in the House and Senate, how many of these measures would she actually be able to implement?
What did Harris say about Trump?
Protectionist tariffs are the cornerstone of Trump’s economic agenda. Seeking to give U.S. manufacturers a leg up, the former president has repeatedly called for an across-the-board 10% tax on all foreign imports — and a 60% tax on Chinese goods.
Together, those tariffs could cost a typical middle-income U.S. household an additional $1,700 a year, according to an estimate published by the Peterson Institute for International Economics in May.
Trump “wants to impose what is, in effect, a national sales tax on everyday products and basic necessities,” Harris said Friday. “It will mean higher prices on nearly every one of your daily needs. A Trump tax on gas. A Trump tax on food. A Trump tax on clothes. A Trump tax on over-the-counter medication. … At this moment when everyday prices are too high, he will make them even higher.”
Harris also criticized Trump’s plans to extend his 2017 tax cuts even for high earners and to further lower the corporate tax rate from 21% to 15%.
“If you want to know who someone cares about, look who they fight for,” Harris said. “Donald Trump fights for billionaires and large corporations. I will fight to give money back to working Americans.”
How did Trump respond?
The former president previously claimed that Harris’s economic plans are dangerously liberal.
“She is running on the Maduro plan,” Trump said at a news conference in Bedminster, N.J., on Thursday, referring to Nicolás Maduro, the autocratic left-wing president of Venezuela. “We call it the Maduro plan. Like something straight out of Venezuela or the Soviet Union.”
But according to a recent Data for Progress poll, 77% of Americans — including 87% of Democrats, 80% of independents and 65% of Republicans — agree that the U.S. “should do more to take on corporations that unfairly and illegally raise prices on consumers.”
Thank you. So her plan is "aggressively populist," "pro-working family," and she wants to "shore up the social safety net." Those would appear to align with Marxist philosophy.
Those, to me, are good things. Yet, the Marxist label would seem to apply. Instead of vehemently denying the label, saying "yes, she likes these good parts of the ideas" would seem to be more productive avenues of discussion.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Nice backpedal….lol…trump’s plan is to threaten tariffs that will cost the average American family $2000 a year. and “drill baby drill”. That sounds more communist to me.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Everyone on the board seemed to understand exactly what was posted but you. Maybe the the only one who needs an explanation is you. Once again you try to blame me for your pretending you among others didn't understand it.
From the very beginning I said that if people are going to claim that Kamala is a communist for using price controls then that would too make Nixon a communist for implementing a wage and price freeze. That's about as easy to understand as one can get.
I also said that capitalism left unchecked led to the abuse of our people. That there needed to be checks and balances in place to prevent that. Now unless someone is a total moron they know what I meant by that and a very basic understanding of American history would tell them that. Everything that has been created and implemented to help every day Americans has been labeled as socialist. Minimum wage, labor laws, Social Security, Medicare, housing vouchers for the poor, food stamps and the list goes on.
The fact that you claim others aren't smart enough to figure out what that means is nothing less that an assault on their intelligence. It shows just how hard you're trying to grasp at straws in an attempt to make an issue where one simply does not exist.
The problem is that you rarely actually write the things that you mentioned in that third paragraph. You post vague "as I pointed out" claims without actually pointing anything out until later such as you just did. Then you claim to have said something "from the very beginning," frequently after having said something completely different in the immediately preceding posts.
Most of the things that have been "created and implemented to help everyday Americans" are "socialist." It's your treating socialist like it's a bad word that doesn't really make sense.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
...so? How does Trump's lousy plan have anything to do with Kamala's plan?
Is there a reason you chose an image that didn't show what the numbers mean? and clipped an image from a picture hosting site rather than providing a link that might explain? What was the disclaimer?
If you have to ask these questions then you have no business being involved in this conversation.
Lol, yes, everyone should assume what random numbers provided without labels with no source given actually show.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
The problem is that you rarely actually write the things that you mentioned in that third paragraph. You post vague "as I pointed out" claims without actually pointing anything out until later such as you just did. Then you claim to have said something "from the very beginning," frequently after having said something completely different in the immediately preceding posts.
That's your claim which is false.
Quote
Most of the things that have been "created and implemented to help everyday Americans" are "socialist." It's your treating socialist like it's a bad word that doesn't really make sense.
Yet I cleared that exact thing up clearly earlier in this thread while you're still droning on about it. Unlike yourself I'm fully aware that posters on this board are quite aware I was referring to ideas that would be labeled socialist by at least some. But that's not a blanket thought process of people. Some consider things like food, shelter, medical insurance, constraints on corporations to prevent abusing our citizens as humanitarian concepts as well as checks and balances. Others call it socialism. For the most part people use the word socialism to create a negative stereotype on anyone or anything that helps people other than themselves. You're still trying to draw water from a dry well.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
...so? How does Trump's lousy plan have anything to do with Kamala's plan?
Is there a reason you chose an image that didn't show what the numbers mean? and clipped an image from a picture hosting site rather than providing a link that might explain? What was the disclaimer?
If you have to ask these questions then you have no business being involved in this conversation.
Lol, yes, everyone should assume what random numbers provided without labels with no source given actually show.
See. I'd call that trolling. I do not believe you don't recognize the DOW and it's history for the last 5 years. Trolling or gaslighting, one or other or both.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Kamala can't be held responsible for the border disaster in any way, shape or form because no one can prove she was 100% in charge of it, ie... border czar.
Instead we're told to use our brains, understand underlying factors and a history of failure. For only then can we see that she was a huge success when we bone up on "root causes".
BUT.
When we talk about the economy? Root causes be damned. We need merely look at a graph that shows the stock market is higher now! A nice pic on the bottom left of Trump, then Kamala atop the right with the soaring stack market beneath here wings... because, you know, she is obviously 100% responsible for that.
And if you make any light of that -- you don't belong in the conversation.
...so? How does Trump's lousy plan have anything to do with Kamala's plan?
Is there a reason you chose an image that didn't show what the numbers mean? and clipped an image from a picture hosting site rather than providing a link that might explain? What was the disclaimer?
If you have to ask these questions then you have no business being involved in this conversation.
Lol, yes, everyone should assume what random numbers provided without labels with no source given actually show.
See. I'd call that trolling. I do not believe you don't recognize the DOW and it's history for the last 5 years. Trolling or gaslighting, one or other or both.
Your ignorance/assumption of other peoples knowledge doesn't make something so. Sorry, I don't memorize squiggly lines or follow the stock market that closely. I tend to stick to more fixed rate investments. I've got trust issues (mainly because so many people are untrustworthy and/or have beliefs that are obviously untrue) and it's too easy for the market to be manipulated. (And who knows what Trump or other politicians might do, and one can throw in regional instability in various parts of the globe.) I like to actually know things instead of just guessing, particularly when my money is concerned. There are things like this analysis link Numbers don't lie, but neither do they always mean what people think they do. When you just throw some numbers at me that are missing context, its just a bunch of meaningless digits. How hard would it have been to find a place that had the chart's title and a link?
I'm just supposed to assume an imgur meme with goofy politician faces is valid and hasn't been doctored and know exactly what it is? If I put up a similar (but definitively different) squiggly line and typed DOW over it, you'd know that it wasn't the right one just by looking at it?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Anybody with half a brain knows trump is plain stupid on the economy and a host of other issues.
...so? How does Trump's lousy plan have anything to do with Kamala's plan?
Is there a reason you chose an image that didn't show what the numbers mean? and clipped an image from a picture hosting site rather than providing a link that might explain? What was the disclaimer?
I really despise graphics like this. Under Trump the stock market rose to about 30 K before the pandemic. It has recovered nicely and now we are above 40 K. Just present the damn facts and take the win.
I'm just supposed to assume an imgur meme with goofy politician faces is valid and hasn't been doctored and know exactly what it is?
No - apparently you spend so much time claiming that Pit changes what he posts that you help yourself from moving the goals posts, changing the talking point and you you can't simply keep to answering what was said.
I never said the image was valid. I never commented on the meaning or value of the image in terms of a political statement. I said I don't believe that you did not know that with the number 40,478 showing and with a chart over 5 years on the X axis was representing the DOW. . . . and despite your claim of ignorance, I still don't. You are a troll and a contrarian. You like to get by on arguing what the definition of 'is' is. You accept as fact Kamala being a defacto Marxist because her father mas a Marxist Economic Professor and it being unamerican to vote for Kamala to point out the juxtaposition of calling someone a communist and a Marxist. You like to choose which posters you attack based on "I won't let any BS passed" but really your simply shilling for one side only and constantly. And no - I am not claiming to know your politics or who you will vote for - I am simply pointing out accurately what you do, week in week out in these forums. I'm not buying.
Last edited by mgh888; 08/19/2403:11 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I'm just supposed to assume an imgur meme with goofy politician faces is valid and hasn't been doctored and know exactly what it is?
No - apparently you spend so much time claiming that Pit changes what he posts that you help yourself from moving the goals posts, changing the talking point and you you can't simply keep to answering what was said.
I never said the image was valid. I never commented on the meaning or value of the image in terms of a political statement. I said I don't believe that you did not know that with the number 40,478 showing and with a chart over 5 years on the X axis was representing the DOW. . . . and despite your claim of ignorance, I still don't. You are a troll and a contrarian. You like to get by on arguing what the definition of 'is' is. You accept as fact Kamala being a defacto Marxist because her father mas a Marxist Economic Professor and it being unamerican to vote for Kamala to point out the juxtaposition of calling someone a communist and a Marxist. You like to choose which posters you attack based on "I won't let any BS passed" but really your simply shilling for one side only and constantly. And no - I am not claiming to know your politics or who you will vote for - I am simply pointing out accurately what you do, week in week out in these forums. I'm not buying.
What goalposts did I move?
I could guess that it was stock market related, but that number doesn't mean anything to me. Plugging 40478 into Google brings up LEGO kits for sale. "Stock market 40478" still LEGOs.
You call things you don't like bad names and conveniently ignore anything that disagrees with your world view. I've called out plenty of people on the right, you just don't notice because I'm on your "was mean to me" (really corrected me when I said something dumb) list.
I accept use of the "economic" labels because there is reason to. I commented on the unAmerican part, but you keep pretending that that didn't happen. Both parties and their supporters are so corrupt and partisan, that if one is being called a shill to the other by both, they must be doing something right.
I "attack" people who say blatantly wrong things and make things up after they attack me for pointing out their BS.
I only seem a contrarian because so many posters are always wrong and conveniently leave things out, make things up, change their stories, or just generally act like jerks. Address blatant lies at me and call me names and I'm going to defend myself.
I can't help it that you and others have a lack of integrity and it offends me. I can however control my response, and I'm just done with responding to people that would rather lie than admit they were wrong.
Of course you're not buying something. You want Kamala, however you label her, to give it to you for free.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I'll put aside the rest of the sanctimonious post which is inaccurate to one side.
As to moving the goalposts: I said/claimed/stated that you knew what that chart was or represented.
You changed that to talking about the validity of the graphic. You talked about what the interpretation and what the meaning of the numbers meant. You talked about posting an image with a squiggly line called 'DOW' and if it was accurate .... none of which is what I commented on. I simply sated - and still believe 100% - that you were aware the graphic posted by another was representative of the DOW/Stock market. Period.
I mean it's open to interpretation of intent - but I would say your comment "If I put up a similar (but definitively different) squiggly line and typed DOW over it, you'd know that it wasn't the right one just by looking at it?" acknowledges that you knew what it was ... and that you are trying to move the debate to whether it's information was accurate.
Goal posts = moved.
Last edited by mgh888; 08/19/2409:45 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Kamala can't be held responsible for the border disaster in any way, shape or form because no one can prove she was 100% in charge of it, ie... border czar.
Instead we're told to use our brains, understand underlying factors and a history of failure. For only then can we see that she was a huge success when we bone up on "root causes".
No wonder you are confused. You don't have that right at all. Biden actually said in his own words what her responsibilities were. Nothing was left to interpretation. But rather than actually look at that some of you have made up what her responsibilities were for the sake of politics.....
Quote
“The vice president’s work and what we’re focused on this afternoon is thinking long term and getting at the root of the problem as the administration simultaneously addresses the immediate challenges at the border,” the senior administration official told reporters Monday.
Harris has leaned on the private sector to shore up support for Central America, along with the Partnership for Central Americas, which acts as a liaison between companies and the US government.
Around 47 companies and organizations are collaborating across financial services, textiles and apparel, agriculture, technology, telecommunications, and nonprofit sectors to bolster the region’s economy, according to a White House fact sheet.
Among those companies are Chegg, an online-learning platform that has committed to certifying 100,000 young adult students in Honduras by 2030, Nestle, which is supporting thousands of coffee producers, and Target.
On Monday, Harris will meet with private sector leaders and administration officials to strategize next steps. There, Harris will announce more than $950 million in new commitments, bringing the total to more than $4.2 billion, the senior administration official said.
Experts credit Harris’ ability to secure private sector investments as her most visible action in the region to date but have cautioned about the durability of those investments over the long term.
THE PRESIDENT: Thanks for being willing to do this, and I really appreciate. And also today, I’ve — I said when we became a team and got elected, that the Vice President was going to be the last person in the room. She didn’t realize that means she gets every assignment. (Laughs.)
But the Vice President and I, and all of us here, have been working very hard to — to pass the legislation that — that is going to beat this virus, as well as get people back to work and change their prospects. And so, she’s traveling all over the country working that.
In addition to that, there’s about five other major things she’s handling, but I’ve asked her, the VP, today — because she’s the most qualified person to do it — to lead our efforts with Mexico and the Northern Triangle and the countries that help — are going to need help in stemming the movement of so many folks, stemming the migration to our southern border.
And, you know, back when I was Vice President, I got a similar assignment, but one of the things we did was we made sure that we got a bipartisan agreement with Democrats and Republicans to provide over $700 million to the countries in the Northern Triangle to determine the best way to keep people from coming is keep them from wanting to leave.
And the reason why so many people were leaving, we learned, was that not only gang violence and trafficking and cartels, but natural disasters, hurricanes, floods, earthquakes. And so it’s not like someone sits around a hand-hewnen [sic] — hand-hewn table somewhere in Guatemala and says, “I’ve got a great idea: Let’s sell everything we have, give the money to a coyote, have him take our kids or us to the border of America, take us across, leave us in the desert. We don’t speak the language. Won’t that be fun?”
One of the ways we learned is that if you deal with the problems in country, it benefits everyone. It benefits us, it benefits the people, and it grows the economies there.
Unfortunately, the last administration eliminated that funding — did not engage in it, did not use it — even though there was over $700 million to help get this done. We’re reinstituting that program. And there are — as I said, there are many factors as to why people leave in the first place.
But this is — this is the — the source of one of the reasons why we’ve had such a — before we took office, in the midst of the last administration’s somewhat draconian policies of separating children from their parents, et cetera, what happened was that we — we found that there were a serious spike in the number of people heading to the southern border, even in the midst of that. And as — as Alejandro can tell you, is that was because there were serious natural disasters that occurred in those countries. They were coming north, and we did nothing to do any — much about it.
So this new surge we’re dealing with now started with the last administration, but it’s our responsibility to deal with it humanely and to — and to stop what’s happening.
And so, this increase has been consequential, but the Vice President has agreed — among the multiple other things that I have her leading — and I appreciate it — agreed to lead our diplomatic effort and work with those nations to accept re- — the returnees, and enhance migration enforcement at their borders — at their borders.
We’re already talking with Mexico about that; she’s already done that. We’re going to be dealing with a full team now that we have to be able to deal with the problem here at home, but also to deal with it now in terms of in country.
And I can think of nobody who — who is better qualified to do this than a former — this is a woman who ran the second-largest attorney general’s office in America — after the U.S. — after the United States Attorney General — in the state of California, and has done a great deal upholding human rights, but also fighting organized crime in the process.
So it’s not her full responsibility and job, but she’s leading the effort because I think the best thing to do is to put someone who, when he or she speaks, they don’t have to wonder about is that where the President is. When she speaks, she speaks for me. Doesn’t have to check with me. She knows what she’s doing, and I hope we can move this along.
But — so, Madam Vice President, thank you. I gave you a tough job, and you’re smiling, but there’s no one better capable of trying to organize this for us.
THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, thank you, Mr. President and for having the confidence in me. And there’s no question that this is a challenging situation. As the President has said, there are many factors that lead precedent to leave these countries. And while we are clear that people should not come to the border now, we also understand that we will enforce the law and that we also — because we can chew gum and walk at the same time — must address the root causes that — that cause people to make the trek, as the President has described, to come here.
And I look forward to engaging in diplomacy with government, with private sector, with civil society, and — and the leaders of each in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras to strengthen democracy and the rule of law, and ensure shared prosperity in the region.
We will collaborate with Mexico and other countries throughout the Western hemisphere. And as part of this effort, we expect that we will have collaborative relationships to accomplish the goals the President has and that we share.
I also look forward to working with members of the Congress who, I think, share our perspective on the need to address root causes for the migration that we’ve been seeing. And needless to say, the work will not be easy, but it is important work. It is work that we demand — and the people of our countries, I believe, need — to help stem the tide that we have seen.
So thank you, Mr. President, for your confidence. Thank you.
I'll put aside the rest of the sanctimonious post which is inaccurate to one side.
As to moving the goalposts: I said/claimed/stated that you knew what that chart was or represented.
You changed that to talking about the validity of the graphic. You talked about what the interpretation and what the meaning of the numbers meant. You talked about posting an image with a squiggly line called 'DOW' and if it was accurate .... none of which is what I commented on. I simply sated - and still believe 100% - that you were aware the graphic posted by another was representative of the DOW/Stock market. Period.
I mean it's open to interpretation of intent - but I would say your comment "If I put up a similar (but definitively different) squiggly line and typed DOW over it, you'd know that it wasn't the right one just by looking at it?" acknowledges that you knew what it was ... and that you are trying to move the debate to whether it's information was accurate.
Goal posts = moved.
Your post is a sad illustration of what I wrote in the post you are replying to.
You'll put aside everything that you know looks bad for you, as I said.
Yes, you made a false claim.
I stated that I didn't know what it was at the time in my reply, and also talked about something else that was related.
I know it is the DOW now because you said so, and I looked it up. Now you are moving the goal posts to DOW/Stock Market instead of specifically the DOW. Of course I knew it was related to the economy and likely the stock market somehow, or at least was intended to appear so, but not specifically the DOW.
The stock market is a scam. It's a way for corporate executives to skim money from people without actually doing anything, and risk other people's money instead of their own. I don't pay attention to it. The getting money from something so disconnected from reality without any work involved just doesn't compute for me. (And the companies doing well on the market are generally ones that I find morally repugnant and don't want to support.) I know the mechanics of it, the theory, but the day to day numbers are essentially meaningless to me. I'm not a numbers person. I can do calculus, but numbers without the context are just numbers devoid of meaning to me. Once the math is done, for me, the numbers are gone without an associated story to make them stick. While the economy conceptually matters to me, specific numbers as related to a stock market I'm not invested in aren't personally relevant.
I don't play the market, so I don't watch those numbers. You apparently do, so those numbers mean something to you. Most people may vaguely know up or down, but throw 40847, or whatever the number was, without labelling it and I think you'll find most people would only be guessing what it was. I avoid the partisan news. I come here for sports news, but this cesspool forum is the one that gets all the action and I have a hard time stopping myself from peeking in. Seeing the BS that gets tossed around and personal attacks upset me so my responses aren't always playing nice. Trying to wave the white flag between the parties just got me shot from both directions, so now I take cover and shoot back at whichever party is spraying indiscriminately. It's futile, but that's the state of the boards and the world. Nothing one can do to save someone from themselves, but doing nothing feels like giving up.
Yes, you moved the goal posts. I answered your question and then asked you a different one. Now you're changing your claim to something different while avoiding answering questions that you know would make you look foolish if you answered honestly.
It seems you're a narcissist who can't admit he's wrong, so I await your next excuse and changed story.
(It seems not responding is more challenging than I'd like, and I'll admit that)
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Yes, I consider utter irony a moment. It's as if you were looking into a mirror. The only problem seems to be you can't see the image that's looking back at you.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Yes, I consider utter irony a moment. It's as if you were looking into a mirror. The only problem seems to be you can't see the image that's looking back at you.
Your posts must cause yourself lots of moments.
Mirrors work just fine for me, and I'm not afraid to take an honest look in one. I can see how certain posters here tend to bring out the worst in me. It's the whole the abyss staring back deal. It's how most people are wired. Someone swings at you, swinging back is the natural response. After swinging, some people can realize they were wrong. You seem to just keep swinging and refuse to admit the possibility, especially when you were wrong.
It's the voice in your head that I can't hear, though. Do you imagine other people when you look in the mirror, too? Does the voice in your head control that also?
You make less sense than Trump at times, and that's hard to do.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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