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You're blabbering on like an idiot. Let me dumb it down for you.

Trump has hundreds and hundreds of businesses. A handful of them have gone bankrupt. Overall, he is an excellent businessman who has made himself ridiculously wealthy.

Trump is also a human with personal assets. Investments. Bank accounts. His assets include his businesses, but they are businesses and not his personal wealth.

What Jester said was a lie. Trump has never personally declared bankruptcy. Ever. Not. One. Single. Time. It has nothing, zero, zilch, to do with businesses he owns who have declared bankruptcy. Those are businesses. Separate legal entities.

You aren't very bright when it comes to business.

"
"He is for sure at fault" was what she said. "It's always someone else's fault" is your claim in reply. Who is the one blindly ignoring things?"

More excuses for the excuses.

I don't think "excuse" means what you think it does.

Nothing I said was a lie.
He declared bankruptcy 3 times
I never made the distinction between personal and business

You did lie. TRUMP has never declared bankruptcy. At all. A handful of HIS BUSINESSES did, but his business is not TRUMP. Libtards seem to have a difficulty in understanding what a business is.

Carly Fiorina stated on September 16, 2015 in the CNN debate:
Says Donald Trump was "forced to file for bankruptcy not once, not twice, four times."
true/mostly-true

By Lauren Carroll
September 21, 2015
By Clayton Youngman
September 21, 2015

Fact-checking claims about Donald Trump's four bankruptcies
In an effort to take out frontrunner Donald Trump, Republican presidential candidates have pelted Trump with criticism over his multiple trips to federal bankruptcy court.

That criticism was on full display in CNN’s Republican debate Sept. 16. Most notably, former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina criticized Trump’s history of bankruptcies in his businesses.

"You know, there are a lot of us Americans who believe that we are going to have trouble someday paying back the interest on our debt because politicians have run up mountains of debt using other people's money," Fiorina said. "That is in fact precisely the way you ran your casinos. You ran up mountains of debt, as well as losses, using other people's money, and you were forced to file for bankruptcy not once, not twice, four times."

Trump doesn’t deny that four of his businesses have filed for bankruptcy. He argues, however, that filing for bankruptcy is a common business decision, and he was smart to make the moves when he did.

"Hundreds of companies" have filed for bankruptcy, Trump said earlier in the debate. "I used the law four times and made a tremendous thing. I'm in business. I did a very good job."

Trump’s four bankruptcies were Chapter 11 reorganizations (named for its location in federal bankruptcy code), which are designed to restructure businesses without shutting them down completely. The purpose is to "save" the business, as opposed to other forms of bankruptcy which would liquidate the company, said Michael Venditto, a partner at the ReedSmith law firm who has extensive experience with Chapter 11.

Because they keep coming up, we decided to outline Trump’s four bankruptcies. We also talked to some finance experts, who told us Trump is correct that Chapter 11 reorganization is not always the result of bad business decisions.

Bankruptcy 1: The Trump Taj Mahal, 1991

The first bankruptcy associated with Trump was perhaps the most significant in terms of his personal finances, according to news reports at the time. He funded the construction of the $1 billion Trump Taj Mahal casino in Atlantic City, which opened in 1990. By 1991, the casino was nearly $3 billion in debt, while Trump had racked up nearly $900 million in personal liabilities, so the business decided to file for Chapter 11 reorganization, according to the New York Times. As a result, Trump gave up half his personal stake in the casino and sold his yacht and airline, according to the Washington Post.

Bankruptcy 2: Trump Plaza Hotel, 1992

Trump acquired the Plaza Hotel in New York for $390 million in 1988. By 1992, the hotel had accumulated $550 million in debt. As a result of the bankruptcy, in exchange for easier terms on which to pay off the debts, Trump relinquished a 49 percent stake in the Plaza to a total of six lenders, according to ABC News. Trump remained the hotel’s CEO, but it was merely a gesture -- he didn’t earn a salary and had no say in the hotel’s day-to-day operations, according to the New York Times.

Bankruptcy 3: Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts, 2004

Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts filed for bankruptcy again in 2004 when his casinos -- including the Trump Taj Mahal, Trump Marina and Trump Plaza casinos in Atlantic City and a riverboat casino in Indiana -- had accrued an estimated $1.8 billion in debt, according to the Associated Press. Trump agreed to reduce his share in the company from 47 to 27 percent in a restructuring plan, but he was still the company’s largest single shareholder and remained in charge of its operations. Trump told the Associated Press at the time that the company represented less than 1 percent of his net worth.

Bankruptcy 4: Trump Entertainment Resorts, 2009

Trump Entertainment Resorts -- formerly Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts -- was hit hard by the 2008 economic recession and missed a $53.1 million bond interest payment in December 2008, according to ABC News. After debating with the company’s board of directors, Trump resigned as the company’s chairman and had his corporate stake in the company reduced to 10 percent. The company continued to use Trump’s name in licensing.

So four Trump companies filed for Chapter 11 reorganization. Is that as big a deal as Fiorina says?

Risky business

While it would be better to avoid a situation where Chapter 11 reorganization is necessary, filing for bankruptcy can be a "sound business decision" when the company is facing serious financial problems, Venditto said. It’s better than the business shutting down completely.

"However, the source of the financial problems varies from case to case," he said. "Sometimes it is the result of circumstances beyond the control of the business. Sometime it caused by poor judgment. More frequently, it is a combination."

Trump’s four bankruptcies all happened within the past 25 years. That’s a lot, said Stephen Lubben, a leading expert in corporate finance and professor at Seton Hall School of Law. But to be fair, the gaming industry has been struggling the past few years, he added, and three out of four of Trump’s bankruptcies were tied to casinos.

It’s not fair to put all the blame on Trump for the four bankruptcies because he’s acting as any investor would. Investors often own many non-integrated companies, which they fund by taking on debt, and some of them inevitably file for bankruptcy, said Adam Levitin, a law professor at Georgetown University.

He added that people typically wouldn’t personally blame former Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney or investor Warren Buffett for individual failures within their investment companies, Bain Capital and Berkshire Hathaway, respectively.

"The only difference is that Trump puts his name on his companies, which means people associate them with him, but he's not at all the leader in the bankruptcy space," Levitan said. "These bankruptcies were not defining moments for Trump and shouldn't color our view of him."

Our ruling

Fiorina said Trump was "forced to file for bankruptcy not once, not twice, four times."

While it is accurate that Trump filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy four times, Fiorina’s statement doesn’t tell the whole story. In context, Fiorina’s phrasing suggests Trump was personally responsible for the failures of these businesses, but in reality, much was out of Trump’s control -- such as a struggling casino industry. But Trump is certainly not blameless.

We rate Fiorina’s statement Mostly True.



https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/sep/21/carly-fiorina/trumps-four-bankruptcies/

Eve, I guess you were right and I was wrong.
Trump did not declare bankruptcy 3 times.
It was 4

Oops, maybe I was wrong again.
Looks like he filed for bankruptcy 6 times
Guess I should get my facts straight before posting.
My apologies to all you Dawgtalkers


September 26 by Michelle Lee
Fact Check: Has Trump declared bankruptcy four or six times?
“You’ve taken business bankruptcies six times.”
–Hillary Clinton

“On occasion – four times – we used certain laws that are there.”

–Donald Trump

THE FACT CHECKER | Clinton is correct.

Trump’s companies have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, which means a company can remain in business while wiping away many of its debts. The bankruptcy court ultimately approves a corporate budget and a plan to repay remaining debts; often shareholders lose much of their equity.

Trump’s Taj Mahal opened in April 1990 in Atlantic City, but six months later, “defaulted on interest payments to bondholders as his finances went into a tailspin,” The Washington Post’s Robert O’Harrow found. In July 1991, Trump’s Taj Mahal filed for bankruptcy. He could not keep up with debts on two other Atlantic City casinos, and those two properties declared bankruptcy in 1992. A fourth property, the Plaza Hotel in New York, declared bankruptcy in 1992 after amassing debt.

PolitiFact uncovered two more bankruptcies filed after 1992, totaling six. Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts filed for bankruptcy again in 2004, after accruing about $1.8 billion in debt. Trump Entertainment Resorts also declared bankruptcy in 2009, after being hit hard during the 2008 recession.

Why the discrepancy? Perhaps this will give us an idea: Trump told Washington Post reporters that he counted the first three bankruptcies as just one.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...p-declared-bankruptcy-four-or-six-times/

You're still wrong. Trump did not file for bankruptcy. His businesses did. But keep lying. It's what your slithering kind does best.

I think his companies that have filed are actually up to 6.

Did you not notice this part of the article you linked, though?


Some "stocks" go up and some "stocks" go down. More of Trump's "stocks" have gone up than down and his overall business "portfolio" is substantial. There are plenty of reasons to not like Trump. His taking some "gambles" that went bust in the casino industry when the landscape changed and pointing to that as him being a bad businessman isn't really supported when one takes in the big picture.

He may have some unsavory practices in the business arena, but he is a successful businessman by the standard measures. Warren Buffett has lost billions on stocks multiple times.(link) Is he a bad businessman?

Every business enterprise that carries/carried his name carries his own personal brand of stink draped over it.

He is well-known and well-documented as a micromanager, when it comes to his businesses and his money. If a business of his failed, Donald Trump failed. Bankruptcy is failure.


Donald Trump can't run from his failures, and You can't run from the fact that you actively support this failure- in this forum- on a daily basis.

You're a little slow, so perhaps you should read the last couple pages of this thread.

Trump has/had more than 500 businesses. Only maybe 5-6 of them filed for bankruptcy. That is an exceptional record for a businessman. The majority of businesses fail. So to have hundreds of successful businesses is some kind of amazing.

As a business owner, this is something I can appreciate.

Now, go back to your little slimy hole and fester with your hand while watching kackela word salad videos and ignoring your wife.

You sound like Donald Trump.
I sound like Barack Obama.

No, Obama has more class than you.

Look at this, Dawgtalkers:
A new Barack Obama fan!

She now loves her some Barack (Hussein) Obama more than she loves her some Clem... a beloved, vetted poster of over 20 years' membership in the halls of this august body.

My point has been made.
My work here is done.

j/c -

People can choose to believe whatever they want to believe regarding Trump and his wealth - we even have some naive posters who think all he got from Daddy was $1 million, a claim Trump made early in his life. In fact Trump said it was a loan.

I'm not going to supply links or post articles - if you want to find them you can. But here's what I have read and is widely available to review online.

Donald inherited about $420 million - most of it through tax dodges.

At one point in time it was reported he would have been (far) wealthier if he had invested in the stock market instead of failed businesses. That is no longer the case but it was once probably true.

I've read that his income from 'you've been fired' helped his finances enormously at a time he was struggling. I've also read that a lot of his current wealth (pre Truth Social Media) came from dodgy deals selling NYC properties to Russian Oligarchs.

Truth Social Madia stock was once valued at about $8 Billion - it's nearly half that now, but it's made DT a huge amount of money. I've no basis for knowing all his business ventures but I'd hazzard a guess this is his most successful enterprise ever.

I've no problem with his wealth or how much he has made or not made on some ventures. I do think the idea that he's a self made man laughable. And I do have a problem with him trying to avoid paying the correct amount of tax - whether that's on inheritance or on his capital gains. There's a reason he's never released his tax records. As I said believe what you want ... it's no skin off my nose. We'll probably never know the actual truth of all of the shenanigans.

'And at least one of them was a Casino. A business with a license to print money.. This idiot bankrupted a CASINO...

Tell me, what excuses are you going to make for that. A supposedly fantastic business man with a BIG BRAIN and an Ivy League education Bankrupted a CASINO.

Then he Brags about it. Let me repeat, he bragged about going bankrupt. He put hundreds of people out of work and he BRAGGED about it.

Please, give me your latest excuse for that action. Come on..

If you had been bright enough to read what I posted you would realize I didn't say what Jester said. I was actually agreeing with you about how an LLC works. How an LLC protects your personnel assets and prevents you from being sued personally and prevents you from filing bankruptcy on your personal assets based on business conducted based on that LLC. Because an LLC is totally separate from your personal assets. That's all I said. But you just continued to carry on about it.

Now can you explain how that's any different than what you said about an LLC? Speaking of not being very bright.

He personally made money while he did it. I find it despicable, but ultimately that's what people seem to care about in this country. As long as an individual's personal bank account is going up, that person is "successful." Honestly, it's the same for the economy. Numbers go up, the economy is great. Most people seem to pay no attention to the how.

Democrats create X number of jobs. Nevermind that some of it is because people now have to take on multiple jobs or there can be no stay at home parent to maintain their previous standard of living due to inflation. The number went up, yay!

The casinos were hostile takeovers. It's not about making them successful in that scenario for the ruthless businessman. It's about squeezing out every possible penny. Corporations get the debt, which more or less gets absolved because a corporation isn't actually a person, and rich executives get golden parachutes through "savvy" accounting.

The real golden rules in America-- 1. He who has the gold makes the rules. 2. Those that want the gold make different rules. 3. Nobody making the rules actually wants to share the gold.

I had no idea that wanting billionaires to pay the same effective tax rate as their secretaries meant people wanted to take all of their gold.

So the excuse today is that "he made money" going bankrupt?

This man is running to be the President of the USA. And Character is a HUGE part of that. But it's ok, HE MADE MONEY while putting workers out of work

.

Had he just run it Legit, he'd have made a ton more money in the long run but like everything else, trump always wants the quick hitters.

Once again, I made no excuses. It's simply the argument that bankruptcies make him a bad businessman is extraordinarily flawed logic to businessmen. Since many of his supporters think in a somewhat cut throat, business-like way, it's not a very good argument to use against Republicans.

Being a horrible person and being a horrible businessman are two very separate things to them. Being a businessman, other businessmen expect him to enact policies that will benefit business. He's not going to make laws about cheating on wives, so it's not particularly relevant to Republicans. Someone can be a bad person, yet a good candidate if he's passing laws that align with your/their interests and beliefs. Even if he doesn't truly share your/their beliefs, how much does it matter if his policies do?

"Running it legit" isn't as straightforward of an answer as you make it sound. The problem wasn't that the revenue from operations didn't cover the expense of operations. They did. The problem was the debt the company had to take on to purchase and finish the properties in the first place. If Trump's company hadn't, the jobs wouldn't have existed in the first place. In business, sometimes you take risks to make money. The risks don't always pay off. The marketplace shifts. A "good" businessman insulates himself.

Character is great. If you have great character but lousy policies, you'll be a "bad" president. If you have lousy character, but good policies, you can be a "good" president. The job and the person are two different things.

Obviously, one would love great character and great policies. Unfortunately, that mythical combination doesn't seem to be on the ballot.

People with great character don't tend to last long in business or politics.

All of that makes sense to an extent. Right up until the point when you consider that same man inspired a violent insurrection to stop the peaceful transfer of power and has lied about the results of the 2020 election to the point that our election process is no longer credible to over 60% of the people in the Republican party. None of that is policy or makes a good president.

Eve is the last person I'd look to as a judge of class.

Pickings are pretty slim in this "august body."

Though, having class and judging class aren't necessarily the same thing. The having is undoubtedly hard to find here on the Palus Politicus.

As was pointed out by your post.

Yeah, you did

I literally didn't. But it seems you couldn't think of anything else to argue.

Trying to explain common practices/lines of reasoning that one doesn't like and making excuses aren't the same thing.

I'm not surprised you see excuses everywhere. Supporters of either party seem to be well practiced in looking for excuses for their candidates of late.

I may just be speaking for myself, but I like to talk about Trump bankruptcies only as a response to the tired and disproven line of his perceived business acumen. People have been holding him up as this business savant, but the facts and figures really don't seem to back this up. He has had numerous high-profile bankruptcies, and what little verifiable info he has put out there as far as his net worth and investment performance is starting to unravel (I'm talking about the stories and court cases regarding his massively inflating the value of his assets).

He also got his start from a sizeable inheritance, which kind of dulls a bit of the shine.

The more info that comes out, the more he sounds like a scammer than a legit businessman.

He had 6 bankruptcies out of more than 500 companies. That is an exceptional record. Just because youre putting your fingers in your ears screaming lalalalalalala does not make it not an exceptional record.

Scammer and businessman are all too often synonyms, sadly.

So are scammer and politician. That shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, particularly with how intertwined business and politics are in this country.

I wonder how many of those businesses closed because they weren't making money? We know that Trump University was a scam, trump water was a flop as well as trump steaks. Does your measure of a "successful business" mean any business that didn't file for bankruptcy?

Failed business include but not restricted to....

1. Trump Steaks

2. GoTrump

3. Trump Airlines

4. Trump Vodka

5. Trump Mortgage

6. Trump: The Game

7. Trump Magazine

8. Trump University

9. Trump Ice

10. The New Jersey Generals

11. Tour de Trump

12. Trump Network

13. Trumped!

Trump's bankruptcy list......

1. Trump Taj Mahal

2. Trump’s Castle

3. Trump Plaza Casinos

4. Trump Plaza Hotel

5. Trump Hotels and Casinos Resorts

6. Trump Entertainment Resorts

https://labor411.org/411-blog/here-are-all-of-trump-s-bankruptcies-and-failed-businesses/

The vast majority of businesses fail. So to have only 13 out of 500 fail is a pretty good track record. You don't get to be a billionaire businessman by sucking at business.

It certainly helps when you got 413 million form your dad..................

NY Times: Trump got $413M from his dad, much from tax dodges

https://apnews.com/article/0452d29cd2564eaf97605ab90acc3a67

While possibly true, this stuck out to me: 1 billion given to his children, which should have resulted in $550, 000, 000 in taxes.

In what world do we live where a 55% inheritance tax makes sense?

Oh, the u.s., where whatever you earn is taxed, what you spend is taxed, what you own is taxed (I just spent over $300 today to license vehicles), what you save is taxed, and what you leave your kids is taxed, and you pay taxes on taxes on taxes..............if you have an income and put money away.

The gov't., R or D, can NOT get enough in taxes. It's always more taxes.

That does seem crazy. As a former small business owner myself I know how hard they hit you and I'm pretty sure that's based on a middle class income. That's crazy too. I'm not sure where they got that figure from or how accurate it is.

It seems the inheritance tax only exists in six states....



And while that sounds great on the surface it's a rather deceptive statement......


I didn't actually know anything about the inheritance tax before this and still know nothing about it except what I found in this article. But it seems like an unusually high percentage since the average rate is between 15% and 18%. It's a really good article with a lot of details about not only the inheritance tax but the estate tax.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/i/inheritancetax.asp

I think we're kind of saying the same thing, in a way. Anyone that's extolling the virtues of their respective candidate (whoever it is) just sounds wrong to me.

According to your previous posts, years ago, you were never a small business owner. You worked for a guy that your mom, or aunt, knew. Then you "ran" the business, right up until you got disability. So, which story you running with today? The one you just told, or the one you told a few years ago?

Lol. But you do get to be a billionaire conman and 34x convicted felon by sucking at business. Trump failed up.

Another dumb excuse. He Bankrupted a CASINO,.,,,,,, A BUSINESS THAT HAS A LICENSE TO PRINT MONEY. Do you even know why he needed 500 companies? Do you understand it at all?