DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Mark Zuckerberg just admitted to working with Biden/Harris admin to censor Americans.

Technically, no. It was hurt a great deal by the panic greatly influenced by our government.

Florida as an example didn't follow the Fed course and they came out of all of this better off because they never entered as deeply as did the Feds. It's safe to say Florida got it right.

I love you Peen - But I am not in agreement that FL got it right. Based on what? That they were skeptical?

The ENTIRE PLANET and the overwhelming vast majority of medical professionals reacted the same way. It was new - the mortality rate initially was extremely high and the experience of countries like Italy who had it early was unprecedented. Are you sure you would have been fine with a shrug of the shoulders and an official line of 'be careful out there' ??

If we look at mortality rates - FL is mid-top of the table for states in the USA. And the states at the top are other Red states that had a strong leaning to deny Covid and the vaccine. And that doesn't tell the real story because the impact in subsequent years where excess mortality rates are used as a guide to determine the impact of Covid - different countries are still experiencing different results based on vaccination rates etc.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/death-rate-by-state

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/florida-covid-cases.html Shows the impact in subsequent years. Y'all have to do your own work to compare to other geographies.

Countries like New Zealand and Australia battened down ALL the hatches and had a draconian reaction ... they have the lowest covid death rates. It shows that their measures protected the population - even if the restrictions on travel and entry into the country were hugely unpopular.

Sweden is the only country I am aware of that really did nothing other than advise people to adjust their lives and travel based on risk and individual health etc .... at one time it looked like they had got it right. But after several months they changed course because of the results they experienced. And Sweden vs other Scandinavian countries has a very high mortality rate due to covid - then and in the subsequent years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_government_response_to_the_COVID-19_pandemic This gives an overview of the Swedish response.

On 18 December 2020, Stefan Löfven, the prime minister of Sweden, announced new and tougher restrictions and recommendations including the use of face masks in public transportation and closure of all non-essential public services.[1] In January 2021, a new pandemic law was passed that allows for the use of lockdown measures and legally limited some gatherings.[2] Further measures were introduced in July and December 2021, such as vaccine passports.


I mean if you don't care about citizens dying at a disproportionate rate then maybe the whole world should have stayed open for business as usual ? But I don't see that being reasonable or responsible. While there were some outliers - as there always are - who claimed it was a hoax, it was the government controlling individuals, a means to track people ... whatever ... the reality is scientific community overwhelmingly urged caution and was in broad agreement with the actions/policies that governments around the globe then introduced. Why some individuals wanted to promote false info? I don't know but did find this Minn Uni study/report.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19...ally-harmful-covid-misinformation-online

Well, the first thing that always comes to mind (in my feeble mind) when discussing COVID deaths in Florida is the age of people in Florida.

Sure enough, your first link discloses that all the way at the bottom of the charts.

Florida comes in 33rd in deaths when adjusted for age.

lol adjusted on age. Eww boy.

Here, put on your thinking cap, I know it's hard.


If you compare a high school and a nursing home, and they all got COVID, which would have more deaths?

Or is it more "intelligent" to compare the colors red and blue? Eww boy is right.

So with such a high elderly population common sense dictates Florida should have proceeded with extra caution to help protect the most vulnerable of their population. Not less.

I would guess that many did. Each individual made their own choices. Thus they landed at 33 on the mortality chart when adjusted for age. Funny how that worked in a state that was wide open, huh?

On the money with the age and vulnerability factor - but then that also takes into account that the elderly and at risk were more likely to protect themselves and be cautious no matter what the governor of FL was telling them.

It's an almost impossible situation to say "this is the data" -- but I believe that the excess mortality rates that has been used is one of the better indicators overall. And hard to argue with NZ and Australian results in terms of mortality ... though knowing many Aussies as I do, the restrictions and lock down was not well received no matter the reduced death count.

Odd. You sated that more people should have probably died because of their elderly population which made perfect sense. We all know that the elderly were at a greater risk of dying from Covid. Then commend a state for not taking stricter precautions to protect the elderly. Actually Florida set the tone early with mandates and vaccinations. So let's not rewrite history here.

Sounds like you're cherry picking the part of history that supports your narrative. DeSantis then lifted the mandates and didn't waffle back and forth. Sounds like you're saying he did a good job.

I'm saying he at least started out doing a good job. After it was shown that Covid could be manipulated into a divisive political weapon, not so much.

Yeah, it's easy to get to the point where you feel like you're splitting hairs.

This was never easy to predict, this was never easy to figure out. People made some outrageously stupid decisions on both sides of the aisles. All along, the strongest defense was always common sense... and common sense on a personal level.

Just look at the mask saga... we don't need them and shouldn't use them was the initial reaction from Fauci. Then it was, yes use them, yes they help, no they don't help, yes they help but only a certain kind. Then, finally we went with yes they help -- but not yourself, they help others -- that way we could shame everyone that didn't have one strapped on.

Science this, science that... 90% of it hypothesis presented as hard fact. Any fool can tell the difference between a probability and a fact, so that's when a lot of people started backing up and knowing something was being sold rather than revealed.


Great example when they thought it may be a good idea to put kids back in school:


"Science evolves"

Wouldn't it be better to just say "we need to open these schools so kids can get an education" rather than insult anyone with a brain?

Hmmm. That's wierd, because after the mandates were lifted a Lancet study showed that Florida had a lower standardized COVID death rate than California. By September 2020 Florida ranked as having the 12th-lowest standardized death rate nationally among states. So their death rate actually improved after his "political weapon".

How would you explain that? Just dumb luck?

Im trying to following along ... you seem to be saying old people are expendable.

No, simply that those already in nursing homes have higher mortality rates than healthy kids.

I don't know if it's a good comp or not - but reading your post made me think of the "global warming" science and evolution of our understanding of what is going on. How early on some scientists did irreparable harm by manipulating data and scare-mongering that was later used by deniers. In 2024 I'd say climate change as it is now being termed - is undeniable. And the increase in severe weather - hot, cold, wet/rain - is undeniable. Only the most extreme views from some still claim it's a hoax and just a normal cycle.... some might want to debate the impact we can have through personal choices and reducing fossil fuel use, but generally the concept is accepted.

It's only taken 3 and half decades to get to a place where largely we have a more broad understanding and accepted verbiage and nomenclature even if everyone doesn't agree on a cause/solution.

With Covid we had this new phenomena that was killing tens of thousands in other countries and it wall happened and unfolded in weeks. It's not surprising people got a lot wrong along the way.

By that logic, shouldn't they have done more to protect their vulnerable population? I honestly don't understand the point you're trying to make.

And to your post further down... yes, science does evolve. Hypotheses are tested and confirmed/disproven all the time. I don't understand why people find phrases like these so offensive.

Define "done more".

Did you read the whole conversation? People were discussing whether Florida did a good job handling the pandemic. Many have argued that they "reopened" too soon. Mostly liberals trying to make DeSantis some mortal enemy back when they thought he may be the next presidential candidate. I'm not trying to make a point other than examining the numbers, It's not that hard to understand. You have a habit of constantly telling me I don't make sense though, so there's that.

Why don't you and your buds drop the "people so offended" troll tactic. That's all it is. Nobody is "offended" and certainly don't qualify as such by stating an opinion.

Opening classrooms by changing social distancing from 6 feet to 3 feet has nothing to do with science. Six feet was an arbitrary number, as admitted by Fauci, cutting it in half to put azzes in seats is not "science". Get it?

A far greater urban population. That and possibly the fact that DeSantis didn't lift the mandates in Florida businesses until September of 2020. That's the time they were no longer restricted to be only half full making people much closer together thus helping promoting the spread of Covid.

If you have a population that is higher risk, then it makes sense that you would have heavier mandates to protect your population as well as staying abreast of updated guidelines. To me, it doesn't make much sense to factor out age of the state when discussing FL's response. DeSantis routinely fought against masking and vaccines. It's my belief (so take it for what it's worth), that this is why DeWine's response was so strong. Overall, Ohio has a relatively unhealthy population.

Honestly, no... I haven't been reading every single part of the thread. Many of these threads really aren't worth more than a brief skim but I do tend to read your posts more than others as they tend to make me think and challenge my viewpoints and understanding of certain topics. I'm not trolling, and whoever else you're referring to are not "my buds". Your posts do read like you're offended when you respond like this.


I honestly have zero problem with the whole 6feet vs 3feet example. These types of mandates were tough to live with and even annoying at the time, but the earliest parts of the pandemic were scary. The virus was at its most lethal and we did not have a great understanding of what we were dealing with. As that understanding broadened as deaths started going down, mandates can be pulled back. IMO, this is normal, even when new information proves a previous decision wrong. Sometimes, that's just how risk mitigation goes.

It needs to be taken in to account. Older folks are prone to all sorts of other illness' that younger people generally have no problem fighting off.

I am not trying to say things other than diagnosed Covid were the cause. Just saying it is ignorant to think that age of the patient doesn't have a impact on the outcome.

Above that, the Free State of Florida stayed open. Heck, even some of your heros were found vacationing on the sunny beaches during the shutdown around the country.

Ok, hold up... is the argument about filtering for age because older folks were more likely to die from COVID or because older folks were dying from things other than COVID and skewing the data? Honest question because I didn't consider the latter and (IMO) that's a perfectly valid reason to not count it against FL. My earlier point was that if you have a population that's more vulnerable to COVID, then your response should take that into account.

You must have forgotten that it wasn't like that until it all got political...................

Florida Governor Orders Statewide Lockdown

Florida has now joined the list of states that are ordering residents to remain in their homes for all but essential activities to help stop the spread of the coronavirus. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis made the announcement at an afternoon briefing. It was just a few hours after he spoke to President Trump. DeSantis said he's issuing an executive order that will direct "all Floridians to limit movements and personal interactions outside the home to only those necessary to obtain or provide essential services or essential activities."

With this order, Florida is joining more than 30 other states, Washington, D.C., and Puerto Rico in ordering a lockdown. In total, the orders affect more than 85% of the U.S. population. DeSantis said the order will go into effect in Florida on Thursday at midnight.

Until now, Florida remained the holdout among states hit hard by the coronavirus in not ordering residents to stay at home. A number of cities and counties in the state previously issued stay-at-home orders for residents, including Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties, which have over 60% of the state's COVID-19 cases. DeSantis had defended his stance, saying that Florida is a large state where more than a dozen counties still have few, if any, cases.

DeSantis said he reevaluated his position after Trump ordered a 30-day extension of the White House's social distancing guidelines. At a briefing at the state Capitol, DeSantis said, "This is another 30-day period. At this point, even though there are a lot of places in Florida with very low infection rates, it makes sense to make this move now."

https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...orida-governor-orders-statewide-lockdown

It all made sense to him until he decided to put politics over people.