DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... America - Read It and Weep

I'm like other Americans, I want to blame everyone else, except myself AND my generation-- our fathers and mothers did a lousy job- we will fix things......well folks, check these stats and think about how WE got things WRONG.

1,293,567 Casualties: A social trend claims young victims

The National Center for Health Statistics has just released its report, “Births: Final Data for 1998,” which contained this unhappy finding: “The number of births to unmarried women rose 3 percent to 1,293,567, the highest number ever reported.” That means that one birth in three is now out of wedlock.

The report also found that illegitimate-birth rates “vary considerably by race and Hispanic origin.” The percentage of out-of-wedlock births for non-Hispanic whites is 21.9 percent, but for non-Hispanic blacks it’s 69.3 percent. For Hispanics it’s 41.6 percent, and for American Indians 59.3 percent. For Asians and Pacific Islanders overall the number is 15.6 percent, but this varies from 51.1 percent for Hawaiians to 6.4 percent and 9.7 percent for Chinese and Japanese Americans, respectively.

All of this is consistent with other recent data. Forty-five percent of black women managers or professionals have had an illegitimate child, compared to 3 percent of managerial or professional whites. Half of all births in New York City are illegitimate, and in some neighborhoods the proportion reaches 80 percent. A 1997 survey by the federal government found that the percentage of black high-school students who said they have had sex was 73 percent, versus 44 percent for whites and 52 percent for Hispanics.

But it hasn’t always been this way. In 1940, the black illegitimacy rate was 19 percent, less than what it is for whites now.

Does it matter? Of course it matters. It is only common sense that 1.3 million illegitimate children is a significant national problem.

Those are 1998 stats-- for sure we've fixed everything. Look closely at those births to unwed mothers and think of all the crime and national loss this untalked about problem.....or condoned problem.....do your thing, show your freedom...... avoid religion and responsibility. Free love worked. WRONG.

I suppose that's important for people who thinks that means anything. Single mothers do a great job of raising children. Since half of marriages end in divorce anyway I have no idea what point you're trying to make here. Unless it's some religious belief shaming of others.

I'm curious to see if the numbers are speaking to the (bleak) picture you're painting, or if it's something else.

Just because a child is born to unwed parents doesn't make the baby "illegitimate". This isn't Game of Thrones. It could just be less people are getting married.

Do you have a link? They just released a report on data from 1998? Your post would indicate very serious consequences of an increase in bastard children running around. What is the impact?

The disturbing part, is that number is only going to increase since with the Dobbs decision.

A couple of things, not that it would make a difference. True increases should be expressed per 100 or per 1000, as population increases, so the numbers will increase.

Second, there is an assumption that an unwed mother is not co-habitating with their partner. Marriage is not always a requirement for child birth.

Third, there is a bit of a generational shift in women, giving birth when older (and economically stable), and they may not be married.

One obvious solution would be to make birth control pills available to everyone, but that has problems too.

I know all too well that a woman giving birth too soon is an economic disaster for a young person.

We need births to continue to grow the country, but the immigration policy may limit people and growth.

It is real expensive to have a child, so items like the child tax credit and the exemption for children should be reviewed, because a lot of people are intentionally limiting the family size, because of costs. So you have a change in the general population philosophy towards how many children to have.

The common sense that you talk about (1.3 million illegitimate children) being a problem, and blaming free love, loss of religion and other societal woes is a common refrain, but I tend to put claims like this in the historic and god-given right of the older generation to blame the younger generation for the moral decay of society. A time honored tradition with proponents such as Anita Bryant and Tipper Gore to name a couple.

The report was released in March of 2000 for 1998. Twenty four years after the report was released it's all of a sudden doomsday, lol. That post reads like every other dumb post someone's crazy aunt that spends too much time on FB sends to everyone.

https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/85761

From the National Vital Statistics Report that was released in March of 2000 for 1998, and not "just released."

Here's the terrifying findings!

The birth rate for unmarried women in 1998 was 44.3 births per
1,000 unmarried women aged 15–44 years, 1 percent higher than in
1997 (44.0), but still 6 percent below its highest level, 46.9 in 1994.
The number of births to unmarried women increased 3 percent to
1,293,567 in 1998, the highest number ever reported. Most of this
3-percent increase is due to the 2-percent growth in the population of
unmarried women. The percent of all births occurring to unmarried
women rose from 32.4 to 32.8 percent in 1998

He's stuck in the past.

https://ceousa.org/2020/02/26/percentage-of-births-to-unmarried-women/#:~:text=The%20report%20also%20found%20that,for%20American%20Indians%2059.3%20percent. Center of Equal Opportunity - the article is really old, it is four years out of date.

Lots of folks supply their own stats to make a point- this center's might be/could be wrong- my point is for decades we've, the US population, everyone has their right to lead their lives however they want with no long term societal consequences-- read the article-- single parents DO the best job they can-- SOME succeed and do a good job, but stats show in article- crime, jobless, single parent family again, and being POOR in the US is way more likely in single parent vs two parent families.

We, Americans, think we should peddle our way of life to other countries- Iraq, Afgan, are two recent attempts- we got plenty of things to fix- JMHO- as a society, we should care about why so many families are single parent families and try to break the cycle.

AND, yes, I admit, as an old guy- the old way- staying in an unhappy marriage for the CHILDREN and society might have more merit than "modern/today's generation" thnk.

So you think raising children in violent homes, homes where parents fight all the time, raised in a home where one of the parents is a drug addict or in a home where both parents are miserable is the better alternative here? And just remember, half of marriages end in divorce. Just because children are born in a two parent home, there's a 50% chance it won't stay that way.

In other words, it is better to curse the darkness than to light a candle.

Focus on the solution, not the problem.

My point was that just because a mother is unmarried doesn't mean that child is growing up in a worst-case scenario. To be fair, I have no facts and figures to back that up... so take it FWIW.

I feel like more recently, with women being more likely to pursue their careers and people putting off marriage in general, it could mean that despite a rise in single-parent families, those children won't be quite at the disadvantage as is usually assumed. I guess I was trying to play a little devil's advocate.

Thank you to all the people who posted the link. It's an interesting topic and I'm looking forward to reading about it more.

Perhaps schools should stop putting tampons in boys bathrooms and start putting condoms there.

All of the bathrooms at my house are gender neutral.

And nobody has lifted the toilet ring in years...

My wife and her friends, my daughter and granddaughter would all be furious! Not only do I raise it up when I use it, they expect me to, and I do put it back down for them. I've found it to be in my own best interest.

Haha. About once a year I forget... and hear about how she almost fell in every time.

One thing no man wants to do is have their wife upset. But I will say if people aren't paying attention to where they're placing their ass it can only lead to trouble. And that's on them.

I'm stating current American situation of LOTS of unwanted pregnancies, lots of single mothers doing everything isn't good for our society- an example, Chicago and its endless unsolved murders and shootings- does that happen in father led homes/ two parent homes/ or does it happen in neighborhoods where mothers are working, dads are in prison/or not there, and most neighbors in same boat-- and gangs, they are who rule the hoods--- it is all interconnected, no fathers, early sex, mothers working to survive, and gangs "helping" each other......another quote for same paper- Center for Equal Opportunity--

"When Cynthia Harper of the University of Pennsylvania and Sara S. McLanahan of Princeton University tracked a sample of 6000 males aged 14 to 22 from 1979 to 1993, they found that boys whose fathers were absent from the household had double the odds of being incarcerated. This was true even when other factors, such as race, income, parents’ education, and urban residence, were held constant. Indeed, family structure was more important than income. Each year spent without a father in the home increases the odds of future incarceration by 5 percent, so that a child born to an unwed mother was 2.5 times more likely to end up imprisoned, versus 1.5 times for a boy whose parents split up when he was a teenager."

Small sample size, BUT- no matter how hard Mom works and provides--NO DAD-- twice as likely to go to prison. AND, the other stats say it is even worse.

Schools teach reading, writing, and arithmetic-- but, JMHO, every school should have civics course and teach about citizenship, money, and real life problems- sex, drugs, and gangs - all can be GOOD or BAD at the proper time in life.

So I'll ask you again.....

Is it better to have children being raised in a home where one of the parents is a drug addict? Is it better for a boy to be raised in a home where his father beats his mother? Is it better for a child to be raised in a home where one parent continues to cheat on the other one? Is it better to have children raised in a home where one parent is a career criminal?

Who we are as people is often based on learned behavior. Raising children in homes where these things are normalized only teaches them these things are okay and acceptable behavior. It only perpetuates that it will be passed down to the next generation. You make this sound like a one size fits all situation and it's certainly not.

Promoting that mothers and their children be victims of a spouse as a positive thing verses being raised by a single parent is certainly not attractive.

No one has this. You are making up an argument no one made.

In case you missed it, thus far he hasn't made any exceptions. He has made a one size fits all argument. Nor has he answered any of the questions I have brought up to this point.............

Avoidance and delays aren't neutral; they send a very clear message.

https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/karine-jean-pierre-quotes

Once he addresses those conditions as being proper or improper conditions for raising a child and a better or worse alternative to a single parent home just let me know.

In case you missed it you created him saying something he did not say so you could argue, trying to isolate that scenario as if it is the only counter.

There are numerous studies you could read if you search Google scholar about this topic. You could, but won't because that is actual intellectually honest work and counter to just making stuff up.

So you sound off without answering those concerns I posed as well. Why am I not surprised by that? Would you like to address them or are just just going to keep going on while ignoring them too?

So I'm making up that some parents are drug addicts? That some people cheat on their spouses? That some people abuse their spouses? That some parents are career criminals?

What planet do you live on again?

No, I don't feel a need to address them.

You are making up:


Those were the words you used. You won't own you made up an argument to have an attack surface. Then hide behind hand waves and smoke. Same as it ever was.

So you still got nothing in response to those points. Not surprising.

I just leave it down. I have good aim.

So you are going to make up more stuff? I said don't feel a need to address the points, not that I can't.

You still don't want to own you made up some "promoting" something so you could argue. Then you deflect. It really is shameful.

So you've still addressed nothing I pointed out. I'm simply asking if you and hitt believe the following conditions are better environments to raise children in than a single parent home.....


And all you've done in response is throw a tantrum. So either you have a response or you don't. Avoiding it as you blame me for it isn't an answer. But I do understand that's the best tactic you can come up with at the time.

No you asserted that someone was promoting "mothers and their children be victims of a spouse as a positive thing verses being raised by a single parent" which no one did. You still haven't addressed your completely making something up to have something to argue about.

But you and your deflections...

Still nothing. I get it. You refuse to address the issues I posed and somehow claim that's my fault. Seems to be a very popular tactic these days.

Again you justify lying by blame shifting.

Still nothing. I love watching you dodge real issues concerning someone acting like it's a bad thing for children being raised in a single parent household when it many cases it's the best option. But that's all you have loaded in your gun. Dodge and deflect.

Ever heard your father break your mother’s ribs? Ever heard him break her arm? You are full of [censored], full stop. Because I grew up with that.

Here’s an idea. How about dealing with poverty instead of claiming single parents are the problem?

Crime's been down. Crime has been down for a long time.. the last spike we had in violent crime in this country was during the Trump administration.

So I don't know what this is attempting to say..

We've been dealing with poverty for decades. Most of those in poverty don't want to do what it would take to change. Too easy to stay on the public dole. Deny it all you want, it's the truth.

I don't know if "most" is accurate but there are certainly those that fit the description you presented.

Is that why most also work full-time jobs but still have to buy food with food stamps?

Because that's a thing that happens. Often.

https://blog.ucsusa.org/alice-reznickova/how-big-food-corporations-take-advantage-of-snap/

Who are these people who don't want to improve their situation?

Most of them. Next.

Oh, maybe they WANT to improve, but they don't put in the effort. I think perhaps you didn't read the article you posted. Or, perhaps you didn't understand what the biased article was saying.

Oh yes tell me how easy it is to work a full time job with kids and also look for a job that will actually pay you something that you're worth.

Do you think it's just easy?

It was argued 8 hours for work, 8 hours for rest and 8 hours for sleep..

Where are we putting these extra hours?

"pound the pavement, get out there and put your name out there", has never done a job interview in the past 20 years. Not everyone is also going to be able to advance either. Where are they going to go. There's still someone who has to work the graveyard shift putting packages into amazon trucks.

Do you even know what the poverty line is?