DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Watson: No Way Out

To my eyes, if it's not one it's the other on every play. He's either getting pressure from up the middle, or he's not seeing the defense and hanging onto the ball, allowing the edge rushers to get to him.... there were even a handful of times that he rolled right into the rush.

Not a QB guru by any stretch, but I believe part of the above results you get happen when DW loafs his drop and shortens it for his first read (only?), and stares down his (shortest) choice, freezes and waits for his predetermined choice to come open and throws at them. We have seen passes short, too high, but especially behind because thrown late. Can't be long now until he gets hurt and an injury sidelines him. Somebody picking routes has a sense of humor as far as route depth and his time. Not NFL caliber in the least.

I do think the offense will continue to get better as the season goes on. Oline should stabilize as we get guys back and they get into shape (I'm really curious what Wills' status is after getting rolled up on). A big problem that's not getting talked about is Jones. He looked like a fat tub of crap on Sunday. Not sure what's going on there, but I know I was counting on him having to play after the eventual Conklin injury and play well. Seeing him out there struggling wasn't something I was counting on.

I also think the offense will look better after the eventual Watson "injury". I know I sound like a jerk, but I'm kinda rooting for him to go down. We've seen it enough times to know what happens to the offense (as well as the whole team) when he goes out and a competent backup comes in.

Before the season every one of us had an opinion about how DW would play. I was cautiously optimistic and when it comes to my beloved Browns I'm usually not. That being said even I didn't think it would be this bad. All the feel-good stories coming out of training camp must have been fabrications. Last season was great, enjoyable, almost surreal. I looked forward to every week and was hoping this year would be the same. After 3 games it doesn't feel anything like last season and frankly, I don't see it getting better. Last season was just an anomaly. Just my .02 cents.

I knew they’ve been blowing smoke up our butts for a while in berea. I have seen glimpses in maybe 3 games that tell me DW could be good if consistent. The one constant that is seemingly immutable is that DW keeps looking bad… this is not a franchise QB trait. Appearing to be mailing it in, effort wise, is also not a trait I want in my team… but I swear I’ve seen it in all 3 games from multiple players. This observation has me a little concerned DW is losing the support of his teammates. And that may well be part of what we’re seeing because I simply don’t believe last years players suddenly got SO BAD.

I just think Stefanski struggles with maximizing what a Qb like Watson does best within how he wants to run the offense. I'm not saying its the only reason Watson has looked bad but I believe its a good part of it.. I also think KS like to run complex plays with alot things having to go right for it to work. The QB not being able to execute that really makes the offense look horrible. I think KS would prefer a traditional pocket passer with good size and arm strength and the intelligence to run the offense. I don't think Watson fits. He's been good until he got here.. he didn't just forget how to play, it just isn't a good fit. Some of the best stefanski's offenses look was with Flacco and before here with Cousins. We should have kept Flacco for insurance. But regardless, if KS is the long term plan, then Watson can't be the long term QB, its like oil and water

or, Watson is just trying to play his way out of town. He's guaranteed this contract no matter what he does... so, if he can play his way out of here, he can go get another contract elsewhere (someplace warm) and still be sitting on a gigantic pile of cash.

meh not sure if that it.. could be some of it, but for him to go somewhere else, he'd have to look atleast competent or close to his past performance for atleast a little bit, especially in the beginning. Because the way he's looked and this offense has looked, not sure they would be lining up to sign him. I think KS likes certain qualities in QB's and Watson isn't it. Which makes the trade even stranger.

Nothing that I see to drive improvement or enhance his effort which has looked about incompetent and unmotivated. Not much room for escalators to amp him up. Seems unconcerned beyond a few striking plays.
This is a sure thing for him. About any other would be benched. I want to bring it up here: has the offense given up on DW, or playing down (laying down) to help him to his seat? Looked like Bitonio may have rejected a hand up from DW, and we can't say he is making every player better. He seems to be the weakest link, and the pass-happy play caller aggravates a bad situation. This is the new and improved offense re-tool as promised?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...n-not-seeking-more-designed-qb-run-plays

Browns' Deshaun Watson not seeking more designed QB run plays
play

Daniel Oyefusi, ESPN
BEREA, Ohio -- The Cleveland Browns' new-look offense has gotten off to a slow start through three games, but quarterback Deshaun Watson doesn't think using his legs more is the key to jump-starting the attack.

When asked Wednesday whether he wants more designed runs, Watson responded that he is "not a running back."

"I'm not going in there to ask them for more designed runs. ... If I don't have to run, I'm not going to run," Watson said. "I'm not trying to take any hits. ... I'm not a running quarterback, in a sense. I can make things happen, but I'm not trying to run.


"I'm not a running back. It's not my specialty. They signed me to throw the ball, make decisions and be a quarterback, not a runner."

Through three games, the Browns are 24th in the NFL in rushing yards, averaging 95.7 per game. The Browns' offense is averaging 3.8 yards per play, the second-worst mark in the NFL and the franchise's third worst through the first three games of a season since returning to Cleveland in 1999, according to ESPN Research.

Watson has posted the second-lowest QBR in the NFL among qualified passers, behind only the Carolina Panthers' Bryce Young.

During his time with the Houston Texans from 2017 to 2021, Watson's 1,677 rushing yards ranked sixth among all quarterbacks. According to ESPN Research, only 405 of those 1,677 rushing yards in Houston came on designed runs, though. Watson has three designed runs this season, which is tied for 13th among quarterbacks.

"I won't say that it won't help out the offense as far as just a run game," he said. "But coming back from [shoulder surgery], I don't think that is high priority for [coach Kevin Stefanski] to put me in that situation."

Watson continued by saying that if he were to suffer an injury on a designed run, Stefanski likely would face heightened scrutiny, describing it as "a lose-lose situation, honestly."

I don't actually disagree with anything watson said. The only problem is some things you just shouldn't say out loud. It sounds as if he is trying to dictate the calls Stefanski makes in regards to designed run plays for the QB in public. This is a fine conversation to have between the HC and the QB but not something you want to put out to the press. This is the kind of thing the press uses to drive a wedge between the HC and a QB. I don't know about anyone else but that's not a rerun I want to see here.

Yep, you don't do that. DW is just not a likeable person. Between his press conferences and that podcast, he sure doesn't come across as someone I'd like to sit down and have a conversation with. I actually felt bad for most of the qb's that struggled here. Not this guy.

That's the feeling I get too. But full disclosure for anyone who may have missed it, I've never been a fan of watson as a person. With that in mind I felt it could have easily been my predisposition and feelings about him. Once you make your mind up about someone it's easy to be influenced by your established bias. I had often wondered if others had that perception of him as well.

Paid to throw,yeah well you're way overpaid.
Actually,you're paid to win football games,something else you are not very good at.

Is he now calling the plays? WT frig was that? Lose-lose? More like addition by subtraction.

J/C

When asked Wednesday whether he wants more designed runs ?

This question does not specifically ask if he wants more designed runs for him, or for the RB's and Offense as a whole.


Watson responded that he is "not a running back."

"I'm not going in there to ask them for more designed runs. ... If I don't have to run, I'm not going to run," Watson said. "I'm not trying to take any hits. ... I'm not a running quarterback, in a sense. I can make things happen, but I'm not trying to run.


"I'm not a running back. It's not my specialty. They signed me to throw the ball, make decisions and be a quarterback, not a runner."

Did Watson misunderstand the question ? Did he think they meant more designed plays for him ?


NFL teams don't design more run plays for the QB. The normal QB sneak. Sure they are run plays designed for QB's.

Mostly for younger QB's. The NFL QB's are being paid way too much to have run play designs for them to get out and hammered by and tackled by a 250 plus pound defensive player.


Young mobile QB's can run a QB counter , lead sweep, QB trap or ISO. They also aren't getting paid millions of dollars.

Look at how many NFL teams want the QB to stand in their pocket, so they are protected.

Sure if the team has a mobile QB and there is a break down on a certain play and he can use his legs to make a play. That's a bonus.

To design more plays for him to run is risky.

He was right by saying this.


"I won't say that it won't help out the offense as far as just a run game," he said. "But coming back from [shoulder surgery], I don't think that is high priority for [coach Kevin Stefanski] to put me in that situation."

Watson continued by saying that if he were to suffer an injury on a designed run, Stefanski likely would face heightened scrutiny, describing it as "a lose-lose situation, honestly."


The way the offensive line is playing, adding more run plays for the QB would be suicidal !

Three games in, the team is playing a new scheme. It will take time to learn and grow.

If it still looks bad after eight weeks. Then there will have to be decisions made.

JMO

Again, what he makes doesn't matter. If he was making league minimum the last 2 years, would you be good with his play?

I think not and why I say what he makes doesn't matter. Forget the guarantee. For all intents and purposes, all QBs are on guaranteed contracts. The bottom line is his play isn't good enough.

I am not yet where some other people seem to be at this point. The line hasn't been good, mostly due to injury and the O in general doesn't look meshed at this point and I don't think it is all on the QB.

If a player stinks it up this bad, like DW is, I think you stop listening to him in interviews like this.Don't care about his happiness coefficient, feelings, his opinions about running more, and more often. Some team players would be eager to do what it takes ro win, whatever they can do. Not where DW lives right now. Not much effort and even less ambition IMO. No turnaround happens unless it starts there.

I am with you on pretty much everything you said.

From the post:

The #Browns are not the only team whose large investment at QB isn't paying off. Here's an NFL reality check for the QB position:
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Jaguars paid Trevor Lawrence $275M ($55M average), and they're 0-8 in their last eight games.

Bengals paid Joe Burrow $275M ($55M average), and he's finished 50% of his career on IR and the Bengals are 0-3 to start the season.

Dolphins and Packers both paid their QBs $55M/year and both QBs are currently injured and not playing.

Chargers paid Justin Herbert $52.5M/year just to hire a run-heavy coach. Plus, Herbert continues to suffer and potentially miss time with injuries.

Eagles paid Jalen Hurts $51M/year, and he's been extremely hot and cold. Hurts is currently T-3rd most INTs in 2024.

Broncos traded 2 first-round picks, 2 seconds and more for Russell Wilson. They're currently paying $53M for Wilson to be the backup QB in Pittsburgh.

49ers traded 3 first-round picks to get Trey Lance. He made 4 starts.

Panthers traded 2 firsts, 2 seconds and D.J. Moore for Bryce Young. He was benched after 2 games this season.

Going back further, Eagles paid Carson Wentz $32M/year for 4 years in 2019. He was replaced by Jalen Hurts less than 2 years later.

Rams paid Jared Goff $33.5M/year for 4 years in 2019. Two years later, they traded Goff and 2 first-round picks for Matthew Stafford.
----------------
The bottom line is the QB position is the most important position in sports, and teams will do some pretty wild things at the mere chance of getting it right.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but when teams makes these decisions, they're making their moves for the ultimate upside. More times than not, it doesn't work the way they hoped.

But that doesn't mean you quit trying.

You could probably add Daniel Jones to the list although he's played better recently.

In other words we’re not the only organization who make bad decisions.
What a relief! Now I feel so much better.

There’s thankfully a club to join for everyone.

Meanwhile Baker Mayfield QB ratings are going up up up.

The decision to sign Watson was a total disaster for the Browns. If it wasn’t for Flacco last year it would have been another typical losing year for the Browns. A real Donnybrook, giving up a viable franchise QB for a deadbeat down and out sexual predator. We should just suck and work on a #1 pick this year. Watson is done.

Agree!

When I listened to his latest press conference on Wednesday he literally confirmed my fears about his lack of commitment.

“I’m not paid to” is exactly what you hear from someone who care more about his own safety then helping his team to win. .

This is a false narrative. Top paid QB's are paid that way for a reason. Because they are supposed to play at the top level. Their performance is expected to be commensurate to their pay level. The NFL is a business. When you pay someone top level pay and get bottom level performance it's an issue. That holds true for every position on the field.

Waht he gets paid has an affect on several things. One the salary cap impact. Secondly his playing tome. If he was playing like he is and eas on a league minimum salary, I have little doubt that he would not be the starter. He would get benched and possibly even cut. Because of his salary he is hard to sit and even more difficult to cut

He should still be sat down. He’s a backup at best right now.

From a pure business perspective the Browns simply can’t bench him until he plays himself out of the team, and that is when a play off place isn’t mathematically possible.
I assume that Stefanski and the rest of the team aren’t totally happy with this situation either because lack of results affects them too.

If I’m cynical a suspension and voiding his contract would be the best thing but right now we’re probably have to live with an underperforming QB a couple of more games.

The old bird in the hand saying comes to mind.

Mayfield's attitude improves everyone around him too IMO. But he wasn't going to come back here .. that ship sailed. I will root for him, but understand the truth that he wanted out too

Baker didn't want out until he found that 'they' were courting DW...after telling Baker all off-season that he was THE guy. The Baker ship certainly has sailed...but the DW trainwreck has not.

Any QB playing behind the line would not have a chance to be successful.

Watching Jones standing there letting defenders run around him.

IDK what goes on behind the walls or in the locker room.

Maybe giving Winston a chance could show if the problem is with DW.

Or the team as a whole.

Baker wanted out after he found out they wanted to replace him. I understand the FO "thought" they could do better and I also understand Baker no longer wanting to be here after he found at they were looking for his replacement. Actions have consequences.

Watson obviously played better this week and at this point all we can hope for is improvement in other areas.

Watson played better yet still doesn't have a 300 yard game since coming here, hell he doesn't even have a 200 yard game this year. Baker already has 2 300 yard games this season. Watson had like 20 before coming here, so I'm thinking the problem is more than watson but I'm thinking no QB can be successful with this playcalling, Oline and Wr group. Its regressed

Jones has had a weight issue even in college, this S&C team blows.. they should have been making sure he stayed at weight, the coaching staff should have seen during camp. He was decent last year but still could have stood to lose 20-30 lbs to get quicker, he added 20-30, I guarantee he's in the 400-415 range. To look that fat at 6'8 is alarming. He shouldn't be out there period,

This is not true from what I heard according to a current Browns player. Baker wanted out in October-ish of his final season w/ Cleveland. That relationship ended loooong before DW came into the picture.

Joe Flacco: Browns never made me an offer for 2024
By
Mike Florio

Published September 30, 2024 10:18 AM
The 2023 Comeback Player of the Year almost didn’t have a spot to come back to in 2024.

Quarterback Joe Flacco, who reiterated in a post-game call to PFT that he plans to play as long as he can, came off the bench and got a win in relief of starter Anthony Richardson.

Flacco explained that he was interested in the Colts because of his shared time in Philly with Indy coach Shane Steichen. More importantly, and as Flacco said, the phone wasn’t exactly ringing off the hook.

It definitely didn’t ring from Cleveland. He said they made him no offer to return for 2024.

The reason is obvious: Flacco did too well last year. This year, Browns fans would be clamoring loudly for Flacco, four games into another unimpressive showing from Deshaun Watson.

It all flows back to Watson’s contract. The Browns had no choice but to continue to prop him up, even if there’s no clear evidence that he’s the guy he was in 2020, when we last saw him play at a high level on a consistent basis.

Jones does look like a giant sack of crap. Even his footwork looks painful.