These are super rich people with big egos. They run a very tight nit group. Which is very understandable. 32 owners/groups basically printing money, why would you want to step out of line as an owner?
I am not going to go look up examples, the easiest example is Bill Belichick. The top of the food chain in coaches, he does things his way. That is ok, when you are the Pats and you are winning every season. It isn't when you are unsigned coach looking for another HC position.
To be clear, this is the way to go, if the owner calling the shots on the QB is true.
Peen, I am quoting a segment you posted in the post game forum.
Quote
If all of this talk about Stefanski being forced to play Watson is true, then he is a limp noodle. He needs to coach on his terms. He needs to force whoever to accept his decision or fire him. Stefanski would have multiple offers to be a head coach on some other team.
Take it however you want. What I am saying isn't wrong. Heck our desperate franchise brought in Holmgren. The difference is MH didn't have the attitude/ego of BB.
Quincy makes some excellent points. How long have the players felt DW is a hollow suit?
This would explain a lot of the weird vibes so many were talking about during camp. Even the plain dealer crew mentioned it during some of their coverage (not so much Mary Kay of course). I think we’ve learned from a lot of years of this that when there’s “weird vibes” or “bad juju” coming out of the team in the off season, keep your head down, it’s gonna be a doozy. He’s right about cooper, he’s like 180 degrees tone wise from what he was last year. That little tweet during the Ayuk silliness was alarming. He’s usually very smart and disciplined, that was anything but. Maybe everyone in the building has indeed known for months and only now are we connecting the dots.
Last edited by 10YrOvernightSuccess; 10/08/2409:32 PM.
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
If I was advising Stefanski I would tell him to go against the owners/FO and bench Watson. (if the FO/owners has restricted him making own decisions)
He will be supported by most inside the NFL, including Brown's supporters, local and national media but more importantly his players will side with him. If he gets fired he will receive many good offers from other organizations so for him it’s a win and win situation.
What? How is that good advice?
Sir, they fired Kevin.
Owner: Excellent, let's hire him. I love hiring people that make me look foolish and go against my demands.
If KS was a pipe fitter, in the forces, somewhere on the rungs of corporate middle management.... Id agree.
As it is he has millions in the bank, he gets paid his contract regardless. He never has to work a day ever again if he chooses. But if hes a good OC or HC or FO personnel.... He will get a job regardless.
The question is does he want to prostitute himself and tow the line, or do what he believes is right for the team and other players on the roster? Sure the less financially secure you are, you are forced to tow the line until you can move elsewhere.... KS isnt in that situation. I'd 100% advise KS to call his shots period.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Everyone inside the organization is affected in a negative way when the team doesn't delivers results.
Tanking to get a better draft position benefits the owners but from a players perspective it only have negative consequences. So Kevin has to ask himself what's his obligations to his players, his coaching team, Browns supporters and to his own moral values.
Spent 4 hours yesterday re watching the game. Bottom line once again We do have more problems than just Watson, but he by far is the biggest problem.
Just another thing I noticed this year. Have any of you seen Watson smile this year? He seems to sit alone on the bench, you don't see him incouraging other guys, talking with KS, Dorsey, or anybody else for that matter. He acts like he doesn't even want to be here or anywhere near a football field.
Let me be clear, I am talking about a HC position. That is why I am saying "how is that good advice?"
In my opinion, it would take a year, years, (or never) for another shot at a HC position for showing up the owner. If you do not agree with that, please correct me on a scenario where a HC went against the owners instructions or publicly called out the owner and became a HC somewhere else.
I'm not disagreeing with you on KS calling his shots. If the rumor is true (which I am of the opinion it is true) about ownership calling the shots on this...then that is bs.
It's late here, I will just say there are better options first before getting to the option of defying the owner. If need be, I can clarify that tomorrow.
Spent 4 hours yesterday re watching the game. Bottom line once again We do have more problems than just Watson, but he by far is the biggest problem.
Just another thing I noticed this year. Have any of you seen Watson smile this year? He seems to sit alone on the bench, you don't see him incouraging other guys, talking with KS, Dorsey, or anybody else for that matter. He acts like he doesn't even want to be here or anywhere near a football field.
Funny enough you brought that up (about smiling) GM.
I was watching a training camp clip earlier tonight and thought: damn I haven't seen DW smile at all during the games.
When is someone's head going to roll for this fiasco? I don't usually call for blood unless a current situation results from abysmal failure. The last time was when we retained a 1-31 coach. Of course, there were the folks saying, "it's not his fault he needs better players". But when you're stinking up the place at an historical level and the ensuing circus is a national story with no indication whatsoever that there's a plan for improvement, you don't just prolong the agony. I laugh at all of the business references here....no company would tolerate this type of failure.
Sunday's game was nauseating to experience. A total embarrassment. I have never been so disgusted, and that's saying a lot...being a fan for 50+ years. I stopped watching before halftime, I seriously couldn't take watching anymore of that garbage. Just as with the big picture, there was no indication that anything was going to change and I absolutely knew it wasn't.
What in the hell happened to that team that played the Ravens last year when the entire team pushed the pile for a first down? Nobody's doing that for this qb and coach now.
Call in the dogs, the hunt's over.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
DW is miserable, whether it's he knows he's not good, hates Cleveland, doesn't want to play anymore, etc .. but he's a literal shell of himself
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Let me be clear, I am talking about a HC position. That is why I am saying "how is that good advice?"
In my opinion, it would take a year, years, (or never) for another shot at a HC position for showing up the owner. If you do not agree with that, please correct me on a scenario where a HC went against the owners instructions or publicly called out the owner and became a HC somewhere else.
I'm not disagreeing with you on KS calling his shots. If the rumor is true (which I am of the opinion it is true) about ownership calling the shots on this...then that is bs.
It's late here, I will just say there are better options first before getting to the option of defying the owner. If need be, I can clarify that tomorrow.
Worse comes to worst, he could take over a college program. Schools a the level of Michigan St, Penn ST, Louisville would fall over themselves to hire him. Heck, after the Vandy game, Alabama could be in play for a guy like KS
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
You aren't wrong about another NFL HC opportunity. Maybe this is it for KS? Probably not with two HC of the year awards. But just my personal opinion, I'd rather be an OC with ability to call my own shots and run things my way (or be a college HC as Jester pointed out) than be AN nFL HC in name only on a train wreck, unable to make decisions I felt best for the team.
All speculation since we don't know what parameters KS has been put under, it may have just been a clumsy statement. It might have been some deflection. We don't really know. And in offering my opinion it's based on a lot of missing informatin where I'm making assumptions. KS might be happy he's being pushed to play DW?
The more things change the more they stay the same.
One of the most disturbing things about DW is his lack of leadership.
He sits with a towel on his head and hardly engages with anyone. He is a captain in name only.
The body language of the offense in general is poor. The vibe from Cooper is one of frustration.
I guess if 45% of your targets are miss throws. It can be frustrating.
This team is in a rough place all the way around.
I expect the fans to be brutal come the Bengal game at home.
To me it looks like he only engages with his team mates after one of them messes up and he gets hit. Drop a pass, don't care. Run the wrong route, meh. Let me get hit and we have issues.
The Browns players are waiting for someone within ownership or someone with the coaching staff to step forward and take a leadership role, benching Watson.
If not Haslam...then who.? Jimmy is responsible and he should take it upon himself to make the call.
The season is not over...it is not a "lost season"..
Those in charge need to recommit with a new leader on the football field.
There is simply too much talent on this team to flush the 2024 season because DW would rather be doing something else....jmho
It's crazy that the team can go from stocked with talent (that was the moniker for the last few years) to a bottom of the barrel team.
IMO, if we would bench Watson, KS would implement his own offense and we would roll with Winston/DTR ... we'd have much better results
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
I’m so glad Quincy finally has realized how much of an impact the mental aspect has to an individual. He’s young (Quincy) so it’s totally understandable that this wasn't his first concerns but for me who’s older this was probably the first thing I thought of when I heard about the Watson trade.
Without going too deep it was crystal clear at least for me that Deshaun was damaged goods as soon as I heard about his conflicts with the Texans and all of the allegations from these women. Nobody mentally survive such a traumatic experience and the media circus that follows. I just looked at his eyes for one second and I immediately knew his self confidence wasn’t there any longer. Everybody has seen a hunted deer running for their life to know what I’m talking about. You just see it.
Anyway this isn’t about me but about Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski.
Andrew Berry was at the time still young from my perspective. Education can only take you so far but when it comes to mental health and dealing with people with mental traumas you either have it (the compassion, the sensitivity and the wisdom) to recognize it or you don’t.
I’m almost certain that Watson had personal problem interacting with women long before he started to pay for masseuses. Something says to me that he probably has mental illness somewhere in his family background. Being a super talented athlete believing in God helps a lot but sooner or later your demons will catch up to you if you have been born with some sorts of mental disorder.
I could be wrong but unfortunately he ticks most of the boxes as far as I can see. (and just to clarify there are a lot of successful people with these problems so he’s not alone)
Anyway it is what it is and hopefully the Cleveland Browns can find a decent way out of this. And if you have the time listen to Quincy. A very smart and wise young man.
I’m not sure were there yet, I hold an odd hope that something transpires; either DW climb up to mediocre and that’s just enough to start the engine with the rest of the team of Winston comes in and lights it up. But if we have 2 or 3 more losses in a row, it’s official. Tank it up. Sell all the older valuable assets for draft picks and get young & cheap with the roster while we pay down jail bond. We hit 2027 with a young roster, lots of high picks and cap room.
Btw, listening to couple things today on PFT and Macafee and lots of hints and intimations that it was indeed Haslam who drove the DW pick. If so, we may never be good as long as he’s owner and still involved with picking players
"Team Chemistry No Match for Team Biology" (Onion Sports Headline)
Basically echoes what I've been saying to all those clamoring that DW is the single biggest issue with the offense... He's not... he's probably not even the top 2. Below is a breakdown that show that theres PLENTY of blame to go around including stefanski's scheme.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Basically echoes what I've been saying to all those clamoring that DW is the single biggest issue with the offense... He's not... he's probably not even the top 2. Below is a breakdown that show that theres PLENTY of blame to go around including stefanski's scheme.
I don't disagree with you, but I'm willing to bet real money that most of the issues that have suddenly popped up with the offense magically disappear when Watson gets benched.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
I wonder how long before Myles Garrett says "this season is a bust, I'm gonna shut it down and get my feet fixed". I say at max till he reaches double digit sacks OR the bye week
You can only get so far in the NFL if you are a QB and can't read a defense. Watson has been exposed. I'm thinking in the next game or two that will be it with him. Either he'll get injured or they'll just put him on the bench, where he belongs.
I wonder how long before Myles Garrett says "this season is a bust, I'm gonna shut it down and get my feet fixed". I say at max till he reaches double digit sacks OR the bye week
Or when he stops getting flagged three times and more a game for Defensive off sides.
Forget sacks and look at plays where he cannot see a simple read on play after play.
i promise you i've watched taped alot more than you probably have bbut yeah.. its all watson.. I actually expect you to see it that way. The link I posted is actually objective and showing the blame lies at a lot of feet. Never have I said Watson isnt at fault for anything.. I'm simply saying you haters refuse to believe there could be extenuating circumstances as to why this offense looks so bad. Do we not remember last year where it looked like watson was turning a corner.. so what happened? well he lost any semblance of running game, his receivers now have the yips, he went back to 99 on the Oline and we no longer run ZBS and now hes got another new position coach to deal with. So yeah, watson hasn't looked good this year.. but tell me one player on offense that has?..i'll wait
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Basically echoes what I've been saying to all those clamoring that DW is the single biggest issue with the offense... He's not... he's probably not even the top 2. Below is a breakdown that show that theres PLENTY of blame to go around including stefanski's scheme.
I don't disagree with you, but I'm willing to bet real money that most of the issues that have suddenly popped up with the offense magically disappear when Watson gets benched.
then you must have never seen Winston play.. I have seen him play alot living here in tampa market.. he is not going to do better than Watson.. what he will do, is turn the ball over at a staggering interval. But at this point I hope we do make a change.. theres really nothing to lose.. If someone comes in and we play lights out, good for the fans because now we have decent football to watch, if they come in and do the same thing, then maybe we can start looking a little deeper than watson as the scapegoat
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
From what I can see and hear in the past I have every reason to trust Kurt Warner and Quincy when it comes to these evaluations. They really trying to give an honest opinion without being biased. I also have my own eyes too to confirm what to believe or not.
