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Not sure if you all remember my "fun" with my bathroom from last year or not, but that is FINALLY done (other than some small details crap).
The kicker is that now, the copper pipe leading into the kitchen has burst (gotten a hole, sprung a leak...whatever). It's under the slab of the house, so there is no easy fix. Grrrrrr! Plumber just left and our options are going to be, dig up the slab and hope to soulder something onto the 55 year old pipe (copper pipes are rated for 50 years) and leave a temporary fix. OR, we somehow cap off that pipe and run all new piping in the house. Neither option appeals to me, but if we're going to do anything, we're doing right (replacing the piping). Just when I thought we were getting back on our feet financially (well, until Baby arrives at least), this crap happens.
No more 50+ year old homes for me. Newer contruction only! (yes, I know, I can still have these issues in new construction, but it's not nearly as likely)
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Can you delete this? I was hoping to talk to someone about looking at a nice old farmhouse, which that person it totally against. 
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Oh, you should be in the clear Jules ... Old farm houses usually don't have indoor plumbing. 
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So the main water line comes into the house, then it goes back under the slab to get to the kitchen? 
yebat' Putin
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Oh, you should be in the clear Jules ... Old farm houses usually don't have indoor plumbing.
Not that old. 
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So the main water line comes into the house, then it goes back under the slab to get to the kitchen?
First floor copper is ran under slab like the heating duct work. It is stubbed up according to where it is needed via blueprint.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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When it comes time for me to redo mine, I'm using flexible plastic. It won't corrode ... is easier to feed through existing walls ....is flexible ...... . has some insulating ablity ..... and is easier to install. Oh ... and it's cheaper. 
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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When you say underslab, you are talking underground right? Or are you talking in a crawl space? I've built lots of houses and never seen one where the water pipe came into the house, then went back underground to get to it's destination.... Once it's in the house, it always ran either in the floor joists or the ceiling....
yebat' Putin
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The house is kinda split-level-ish (though it looks like a Cape Cod from the outside). The main water supply comes into the basement and branches out from there. The kitchen level is just above the basement but on the opposite side of the house and the idiots that built the house put the piping under the slab instead of through the soffits. The reroute of the piping with go through the soffits.
Jules~Just make sure that everything is updated in your old farmhouse. I absolutely LOVE old homes, really. Just frustrated with my plumbing issues over the last 18 months. By the time it's all said and done, every inch of plumbing will be new in this home.
My ideal home is one my Mom lived in right after her and Dad split up. It's about 100 years old. Such charm. BUT, the previous owners had everything updated before they moved out. That is what to look for in an older home. We were too naive when we were looking. We were caught up inthe charm of this one, but didn't look too hard at the structural stuff and the home inspection can't see under the slab anyway.
Live and learn, huh? The next house will at least have everything updated within the prior 5-7 years before our buying it.
#gmstrong
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Steeler
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I love old houses....sorry about your plight, though.
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There isn't a crawlspace under the "slab"? It is physically resting directly on the ground?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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in your myspace pic...is all that snow your standing under...over your house...
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Concrete slab without a crawl space. That's why I say the builders were morons. That and when our bathroom was ripped apart last year, we found tons of old junk stuffed into the walls (newpapers, candy wrappers etc).
We found out that our home was the model home for the builder for this style of house in Cuyahoga Falls. We can tell where the contractors were running out of time and cut some corners (door jambs aren't straight, the rise and run on our stairs is inconsistent, the textured ceilings have some pattern that's tightly packed and some that's spread out - in the same room). All things we didn't notice before we moved in, but we sure as hell notice them now!
#gmstrong
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I'm assuming that they are going to cut out what they can of the old plumbing and run new around it? That's a perfect use for plastic piping. Plus .... it will never corrode like pipes in some areas do.
If you are going to have your supply installed through the overhead soffets, plastic is the only way to go. Instead of ripping the whole damn thing open. flexible piping will allow you to work around obstacles, and manuever through tight spots without major demo.
As far as the newspapers ..... I have heard that this is fairly common in older homes. Older homes weren't insulated ...... but often builders or owners would stuff the walls with newspapers, etc., as an insulating material. Using lath kept things in place a lot better than today's drywall does.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I have plastic in my house, I thought I'd hate it but I don't. I've started working on the new bathroom downstairs and that stuff is so easy to work with. I've never retrofit anything with it but I can see your point on decreasing demo cost, also no need to have all that room for and mess of sweating pipe in tight spaces...
yebat' Putin
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And .... the pipes will never "bang". It's harder to properly secure copper pipes in a retrofit, and can lead to pipes banging when water is turned on/off.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Concrete slab without a crawl space. That's why I say the builders were morons.
Yet you bought the house.
I will never own a house without a basement. I have had problems with my present house with water issues but the benefits far outweigh the negatives in my opinion.
#gmstrong
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I have heard (don't know that it's true) than plastic is only "rated" at 15 years. After that it can burst with no warning. It happened to a friend of mine who had all plastic in his house he built a little over 15 years ago. A pipe burst with no warning in his office above the garage and took out his new flooring in the office and the garage ceiling. So just because it's plastic doesn't mean you'll never have problems. I should also mention my house is coming up on it's 80th birthday (might be 90th...now I have to go look) and all my pipes are copper and I've had no problem.......knock on wood...or copper.....
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Sorry to hear of your troubles.
The sad fact is the homes built in the 40's,50's and 60's for the GI families are now entering the point they need serious updating.
They can be great homes......if you can get past the physical plant and structural issues that can crop up.
It is kind of like that old car...it can become one thing after another....but once you get past that, you have a classic.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I'm not absolutely positive how the new piping will be run. I know it will NOT go through the slab. The plumber recommends (and after discussing it, I agree with him) that we run the pipes through the upper soffets all the way across the kitchen level of the house and then drop the pipe down behind the cabinets next to the sink (and into the sink area).
#gmstrong
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Concrete slab without a crawl space. That's why I say the builders were morons.
Yet you bought the house.
I will never own a house without a basement. I have had problems with my present house with water issues but the benefits far outweigh the negatives in my opinion.
Oh, I've got a basement, but it's only under half of the house (and not the kitchen half!)
#gmstrong
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The only problem with running the pipes in the soffit is freezing temps......it gets cold where you live.
You may want to explore your options here.
Might mean you have to cap it off for a day or two, but it gives you time to research.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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IIRC, the stuff I looked at the other day had a 50 year warranty. I also saw another product online that had a limited lifetime warranty for as long as the purchaser owns the property. Don't get that with copper.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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It's an interior wall/soffitt of the house. Temperature shouldn't be an issue. The wall runs between the kitchen and the rec room (our 2 most used rooms of the house, besides the bedroom, of course...  )
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I'm not absolutely positive how the new piping will be run. I know it will NOT go through the slab. The plumber recommends (and after discussing it, I agree with him) that we run the pipes through the upper soffets all the way across the kitchen level of the house and then drop the pipe down behind the cabinets next to the sink (and into the sink area).
That would seem the way to go to avoid having to rip out all of the cabinets, sink, etc. Sounds like he's already planning on CPVC and flexible lines already.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
No more 50+ year old homes for me. Newer contruction only!
Amen, Sister! Good luck with your piping issue...I'm hoping we get out of our current house before we have the same trouble. 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Quote:
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No more 50+ year old homes for me. Newer contruction only!
Amen, Sister! Good luck with your piping issue...I'm hoping we get out of our current house before we have the same trouble.
New construction isn't always better. I built a new house when I lived in Columbus and we had to be very careful. Many, many builders do not use the best possible products and try to do things cheaply. This is especially the case if you use a trac builder but also happens with smaller ones. My house now was built in 1950 and I have been having some problems but not because of the age of the home. My biggest problems are due to the last owner being a "do it yourselfer" If you hear those words run like hell. Many people are able to do their own remodling but you never really know if you are buying a house from someone like that.
#gmstrong
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I should also mention my house is coming up on it's 80th birthday (might be 90th...now I have to go look) and all my pipes are copper and I've had no problem.......knock on wood...or copper.....
You're lucky. There are a lot of homes in this area that have had issues with copper in less than a decade. (pinhole leaks, mineral deposit clogs/loss of pressure, etc.)
My house is also almost 80. Part of the plumbing is (or appears to be) close to original ..... and part was patched in when the previous owners built the kitchen extension. (on a slab, over a crawlspace) My hot water pressure to the kitchen and utility sink in the basement is great. The hot water pressure to the 2 bathrooms ...... sucks. That tells me that there is some buildup in the pipes somewhere. When I moved in I checked all of the sink spigot filters, and they were all partially clogged with sediment.
When I'm done though ...... I'll have nice, full flowing hot water everywhere.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I know new isn't always better. In fact, I generally like older homes better. But all plumbng and electric will need to be new in order for me to buy my next house. Ours hasn't been touched since the house was built in 1952 and it's slowly turning to crap. Luckily, after this, our piping will be all new so we SHOULDN'T have any issues as least until AFTER we sell this place in a couple years. I do love older homes, I just haven't had much luck with this one. The new construction comment is born more out of frustration and seeing too many dollar signs in front of my eyes right now. My Mom lives in a house that's 120 years old now, the one before that was 100. I love both of those houses. It's times like this that I just flat out hate home ownership. Of course, once it's fixed, I'll be happy as a clam that I own my own home.
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The problem with new homes is a lot of them come with HOA's attached to them. Pretty much all new houses in California come with these now, which is just like paying rent on top of the actual cost of the house.
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I don't have to worry about resale. I live in a mansion so I have no reason to move, ever. The truth is my wife has already stated that our kids will have to remove us from our house after we die. If that is what my wife says, that's the way it will be. I have no say. 
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Have room in the mansion for a young, growing family? LOL!
If this house had either one more bedroom or a room for an office, we wouldn't ever move from here probably. I like where we are. Nice, safe neighborhood (State Hwy Patrolwoman across the street, retired cop 2 doors down from her). CLose to schools, parks and "downtown" Cuy. Fls with all the festivals and such over the summer and ice skating in the winter.
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#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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We've thought about that, would just be hard to do with it being a split-level, our ground floor is partially underground. If we went out from one of the other levels we'd have to put in supports and such.
We have pondered turning the attic into my office though. Would need to totally clean it out and reinsulate it, put in some windows etc. But that is probably the likeliest way we'd add a room. But we'd lose storage (and that is a premium in this house). It would also need to double as a master closet as the access to the attic is through the master closet and we would need to remove the closet in order to have stairs to get up there. (right now, the "door" is a 3'x3' opening about 4 and half feet up from the floor).
#gmstrong
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Okay...just move.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Have room in the mansion for a young, growing family? LOL!
I'll have to ask Mark since we live in his guest house.
We are fortunate because we have four bedrooms. One is only 9x9 with another section that sticks out 5x5. Big enough for a computer stand. Our bedroom is the entire size of the garage but is not heated properly so we need a small heater. It's not perfect but suits are needs. I would rather build on to the house (larger kitchen and bath, maybe even a downstairs bedroom?) than move. I will also have to sink money into our house but I was fortunate enough to buy a house with a new roof, furnace, central air and drive way. The windows were also new but the guy did a horrible job putting them in, plus they are the cheapest Anderson windows to have ever been put on the market. Wiring will also be an issue but the alternative to live in my town is too great. All the new houses are way more expensive than my home.
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Okay...just move.
Yeah. Sounds like a move might be in the cards (especially with the little baby on the way - when is that thing falling out again BB? - oh, it's in your sig)
I can't wait to move again. The next time will be when we finally buy a house (own two condo's in downtown Chicago). I'll be able to build my dream kitchen! BIG sink, loads of fridge and counter space, those fancy ovens (like Miele) and a stove with a hood that actually vents to the outside!
Last edited by Punchsmack; 01/03/08 04:16 PM.
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What ever you do dont let the plummer just HAVE the old copper piping....check out the recycle cost of copper per pound and either tell them before hand you want every piece of copper that comes out of your house or negotiate with them on a cost to do the work minus the cost of you selling them the copper,
If you dont tell the plumbers they cant have it they will take it without saying a word and old houses might have $300-$400 worth of old copper pieces,
Call a junk yard get a cost on copper and go from there, maybe you keep it and turn it in yourself. but there could be good money there.
Last edited by ClayM57; 01/03/08 04:46 PM.
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Thanks for that tip Clay! Good to know... 
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I agree Clay. Babe... keep it yourself and take it in. Even if you negotiate a price they'll probably still want to charge you for having to haul it away. I guess it depends on how much your time is worth to ya...
#gmstrong
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