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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
That sounds like what trump would do. I mean he became the "Father of IFV" because a woman explained it to him in two minutes so now he thinks he knows everything about it! I don't think this thread any longer qualifies as a debate.

I just posted a post about a non-sequitur committed by Hitchens that I found in under a minute, and said I was going to write a post where I interact with his arguments later.

Stay tuned…

PS- Pit, you’re defending Hitchens as a Christian?

That’s fascinating.

Do you not think that a schoolkid who knows the Bible can refute atheist arguments?

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Everyone can point out exceptions to the rule. It doesn't change the rule. Or are you denying that the majority of Christians support a man that holds none of those Christian values I listed? I'm pointing out the very obvious message people see every day. I know that no matter how many times people point out these very obvious things to you it will not matter. Christianity or what passes for Christianity these days is a sham. The message they are sending is nothing that resembles the teaching of Jesus. The entire, "Yeah but my church" excuse only shows your church isn't getting that message out to the public and that as a whole Christianity in the form of religion is rotten to its core.

I mean I'm sure it would have been enough to have saved your life at the time of Sodom and Gomorrah but you need to face the fact that most people turned off by Christianity and the word of God are people that witness what those that claim to represent it are doing. Your caveat and exceptions to the rule aren't being put on display enough to move that needle.

I'll leave you with this. A few good apples in the midst of a bushel is not enough to hide the entirety of rot contained there in.


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What does that have to do with the OP?

I’ll just assume you don’t believe Jesus’ teachings on gender and marriage and agree to disagree with you.

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I think that any Christian can convince themselves they can refute an atheist. Sadly I think that's ridiculous. Christianity is solely based on faith. Faith is not inherent to all people. Faith is something you either have or you don't have. That isn't grounds to refute anything. It's only a reason for those with faith to believe as they do.

You sure sound a lot like Bulldog.


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So what you did is you went to the internet and you said find me quote from Hitchens that are easy to refute....

Instead watch the clips I posted and tell me where he is wrong.

And no, a kid from school can't refute atheism. You can't either. You cannot prove God exists. Period.


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When atheists try to point out contradictions in the Bible most of the time (not always easy but always possible) it is very easy to refute. Apparently, you have a LOW view of scripture

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As Pit said this was never a debate... This was someone who thought they had a gotcha, but they don't.

And psssst. Just so you know, atheism isn't about contradictions in the Bible. It wouldn't matter if there are or are not contradictions. Smh. Talk about Strawman.


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Do you mean like the earth is only 7000 years old?


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Originally Posted by mgh888
As Pit said this was never a debate... This was someone who thought they had a gotcha, but they don't.

And psssst. Just so you know, atheism isn't about contradictions in the Bible. It wouldn't matter if there are or are not contradictions. Smh. Talk about Strawman.
Originally Posted by mgh888
As Pit said this was never a debate... This was someone who thought they had a gotcha, but they don't.

And psssst. Just so you know, atheism isn't about contradictions in the Bible. It wouldn't matter if there are or are not contradictions. Smh. Talk about Strawman.

You said that I wasn’t able to refute Christopher Hitchens arguments and I hate to Tell you this, but I was referring to a video on YouTube by Christopher Hitchens about contradictions in the Bible so I don’t know what you’re talking about.

Are you gonna limit what we say about Christopher Hitchens now to exclude alleged contradictions in the Bible? Isn’t that kind of doing what you said? I was doing trying to control the conversation.🤔🤣

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Do you mean like the earth is only 7000 years old?


I didn’t know the Bible said the Earth was 7000 years old.

Is this what you do every time you have a discussion about the Bible? Do you start to talk about how Christians do things wrong and get things wrong like when you have a Bible Study At church, when they talk about the teachings of Jesus, do you start talking about the crusades? When they talk about feeding the 5000 do you talk about Imaginary errors in the Bible? When they study The 10 Commandments, do you talk about the age of the Earth?

Your debate style is really quite strange for Christian

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I think that any Christian can convince themselves they can refute an atheist. Sadly I think that's ridiculous. Christianity is solely based on faith. Faith is not inherent to all people. Faith is something you either have or you don't have. That isn't grounds to refute anything. It's only a reason for those with faith to believe as they do.

You sure sound a lot like Bulldog.

No to get in to a debate on religion. We don't need another thread of never ending loops of opposing views.

My only correction is it isn't either you have faith or you don't. My feeling is either one finds faith or they don't.

Maybe I am being technical, but there is a difference.


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It's not strange for an honest Christian. Every human sins so your point about Christians doing things wrong is a moot point. But when you watch them rally around a man whose charity was so crooked it was forced to close and he had to pay money to other charities as restitution..... His university was closed and he had to to pay back students for conning them.... A jury found he sexually assaulted a woman.... He was convicted on 34 felony counts.... He calls people names and is as nasty as any bully...... Don't sit here and pretend that's a simple mistake.

You're not a preacher, I'm not in church and the point seems to fly right over your head. Actually no it doesn't. You're simply pretending and deflecting. We are talking about why people resist believing in God, Jesus and the Christianity in general. Your false equivalency here holds no merit.

And do you mean the same Sunday School that promotes our children celebrate man made holidays with pagan symbols? Holidays that use symbols such as the Easter Bunny, Santa Clause, a Christmas tree and the yule log? That Sunday school?

Quote
Jer. 10:2-5

2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
My only correction is it isn't either you have faith or you don't. My feeling is either one finds faith or they don't.

Maybe I am being technical, but there is a difference.

I think you made a very good point. That's a far more accurate description than the one I made. Thanks Peen.


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Originally Posted by Stiffarm
When atheists try to point out contradictions in the Bible most of the time (not always easy but always possible) it is very easy to refute. Apparently, you have a LOW view of scripture

When Christians and Evangelicals say they support a guy like Trump, they are saying they support a Convicted Felon and a Rapist who Lies about Legal Aliens eating Cats and Dogs and talks in public about the size of Arnold Palmers manhood...

Is that what you call being a Christian? Because if that's what you call it, then you and I have completely different ideas of Gods Teachings..


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Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by Stiffarm
When atheists try to point out contradictions in the Bible most of the time (not always easy but always possible) it is very easy to refute. Apparently, you have a LOW view of scripture



When Christians and Evangelicals say they support a guy like Trump, they are saying they support a Convicted Felon and a Rapist who Lies about Legal Aliens eating Cats and Dogs and talks in public about the size of Arnold Palmers manhood...

Is that what you call being a Christian? Because if that's what you call it, then you and I have completely different ideas of Gods Teachings..
Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by Stiffarm
When atheists try to point out contradictions in the Bible most of the time (not always easy but always possible) it is very easy to refute. Apparently, you have a LOW view of scripture

When Christians and Evangelicals say they support a guy like Trump, they are saying they support a Convicted Felon and a Rapist who Lies about Legal Aliens eating Cats and Dogs and talks in public about the size of Arnold Palmers manhood...

Is that what you call being a Christian? Because if that's what you call it, then you and I have completely different ideas of Gods Teachings..


You guys can’t answer the question. All you have, Damashot”, is ad-hominem.

So what does your critique of me have to do with the question?

I’m nobody. Let God be true and every man a liar.

I would only vote for Trump because the Dems are the party of death, and I have already documented countless lies by Kamala. And she would not give abortion exemptions to Christian doctors under any circumstances.

And when was Trump convicted of rape?

if I had asked a question about a different biblical topic, professed Christians like Pitt would not have reacted strongly. The reason why people that call themselves Christians are reacting Strongly is because of the subjects discussed.

It’s easy to whether they believe the words of Jesus Or the words of Secular society matters. If I had chosen different matter to discuss, perhaps it would be such a strong reaction

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So I wonder who told Pit The Bible says the Earth is 7000 years old? Was it Hitchens?🤣🤣 Anybody that wants to give me chapter reverse words it says that I’m aaaaalllll ears. 😀

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Hell was created by the church. Just saying. Prove me wrong. Bet you can’t.


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Damn Stiffy.

According to a literal interpretation of the Bible's creation story in Genesis, the Earth is considered to be around 6,000 years old, not 7,000, as calculated by adding up the generations listed in the Bible's genealogical records; however, the vast majority of scientists, using geological evidence, believe the Earth is significantly older, around 4.5 billion years old.

You should be reading your bible instead of pointing your fingers at others. Do the math.


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So the question of the OP has only been answered by one or two people. The rest of the answers seem to be coming from Atheists and Theists who don’t believe the Bible is the word of God. The only two that I can think that actually might believe all of Jesus’ teaching are YTown and one another who said we need more spirituality and less religion. If I forgot anyone who actually answered the question of the OP, I apologize.

I will be very selective about who I reply to from here on, and will not reply unless the post is either relevant to the OP or if I think there might be a teaching moment to be gleaned from an irrelevant post.

For those who repeat stuff I’ve already answered ten times, I will put “already answered”.

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rofl nobody cares about your crap anyways.


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Originally Posted by PerfectSpiral
Damn Stiffy.

According to a literal interpretation of the Bible's creation story in Genesis, the Earth is considered to be around 6,000 years old, not 7,000, as calculated by adding up the generations listed in the Bible's genealogical records; however, the vast majority of scientists, using geological evidence, believe the Earth is significantly older, around 4.5 billion years old.

You should be reading your bible instead of pointing your fingers at others. Do the math.

Let’s do an evaluation of your claim.

First Question. If you actually believed the Genesis account, when did time begin?

Genesis 1 or Genesis 3?

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Originally Posted by Stiffarm
Originally Posted by PerfectSpiral
Damn Stiffy.

According to a literal interpretation of the Bible's creation story in Genesis, the Earth is considered to be around 6,000 years old, not 7,000, as calculated by adding up the generations listed in the Bible's genealogical records; however, the vast majority of scientists, using geological evidence, believe the Earth is significantly older, around 4.5 billion years old.

You should be reading your bible instead of pointing your fingers at others. Do the math.

Let’s do an evaluation of your claim.

First Question. If you actually believed the Genesis account, when did time begin?

Genesis 1 or Genesis 3?

Do your own research bro. You have access to it right? Make up your own mind. There is no debate here. Have fun.


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I know the answer. I’m testing your argument, pal

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You can get the answer to that question by just using simple logic that even a third grader can understand

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Enlighten me. I’m not really into games, myth’s, legends and other related topics.


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Allow me to reveal the underlying fallacy of Perfect Spiral’s argument ( that he probably got from Hitchens or some other wannabe Bible scholar. These are my own words, not copied or pasted, because ANYONE can refute many arguments about the Bible if they actually know how to read with comprehension. Pardon typos as I am using microphone.

Genesis1:1. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth

(Here is the answer To my question to perfect spiral. Very simple it says in the beginning beginning refers to the first event or events in a sequence of Actions or it can be spatial. Beginning can be temporal or spatial, and is here a temporal word, meaning that it relates to TIME. So the marking point of the beginning of time is in Genesis 1:1, not 1:3. A first grader can get this).

Genesis 1:2- In the Earth was formless and empty…

(Here is a period of time when the Earth was formless and empty. This period of time was between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:3. So there was an unknown period of time when the Earth was formless and void before the first day.

Genesis 1:3- And God said let there be light… Evening and morning were the first day

So here we see, not the beginning of time (Because time began inverse one) But we see the beginning of days. So time is not always necessarily measured by solar days. Of course this is obvious.

Remark- The verb translated “was” is a perfect qatal verb, meaning a completed action and may actually mean “ became”.

Conclusion. Since we don’t know how much time passed between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, we cannot confidently give the age of the earth.

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lol if you believe in all that. And if you do, you nor I can’t prove diddly. And I raised no argument to begin with. Goodbye.


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With every post you show your ignorance.


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Just to clarify, do you believe everything written in the bible actually happened?


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You forget that the question was does the Bible teach that the Earth is 7000 years old! I just showed you that it clearly doesn’t or at least it cannot be stated positively that it does. Whether you believe the Bible or not is irrelevant. You erred and said the Bible says the Earth is 7000 years old Whoever lied and said the Bible says the Earth is 7000 years old errs. there is no debate because there is no intellectual honesty in your reply because you moved the goalposts from “does the Bible say the Earth is 7000 years old?” to “is the Earth 7000 years old?” That is dishonest.

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Yes. I hold the same high view of Scriptures that Jesus does. I wouldn’t be a Christian if I didn’t.

The question is irrelevant because what I was replying to was the false claim that the Bible teaches at the Earth is 7000 years old. Bible doesn’t say that. That is a false claim and either a lie or a claim made by someone that did not read very carefully, I imagine it was someone like Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins or some other person who tries to refute the Bible and fails miserably

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Sorry about all the typos. I need to stop using microphone.

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I once had someone send me a link of about 100 silly objections to the Bible. Supposed contradictions. I told him That I was not willing to reply to 100 claims and asked him To pick up 10 and I would answer 10 of them. He said the The first 10 would be fine. So I did the first 20. he never responded again.

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You said that the Bible teaches that the Earth is 7000 years old. I showed your argument to be fallacious. IF anyone goes anywhere from this point, they probably most likely will not bring any argument that I have not already heard. Atheists and anti-theists often have very poor arguments.

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Originally Posted by mgh888
With every post you show your ignorance.
Originally Posted by mgh888
With every post you show your ignorance.

No I just showed the ignorance of people who claim that the Bible dates the earth.

Maybe you didn’t comprehend The original argument that perfect spiral gave or maybe you didn’t comprehend my reply. Maybe you don’t track too well with discussions

My refutation of what PS claims is airtight and irrefutable.

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Where Did a Young-earth Worldview Come From?

Simply put, it came from the Bible. Of course, the Bible doesn’t say explicitly anywhere, “The earth is 6,000 years old.” Good thing it doesn’t; otherwise it would be out of date the following year. But we wouldn’t expect an all-knowing God to make that kind of a mistake.

God gave us something better. In essence, He gave us a “birth certificate.” For example, using a personal birth certificate, a person can calculate how old he is at any point. It is similar with the earth. Genesis 1 says that the earth was created on the first day of creation (Genesis 1:1–5). From there, we can begin to calculate the age of the earth.

Let’s do a rough calculation to show how this works. The age of the earth can be estimated by taking the first five days of creation (from earth’s creation to Adam), then following the genealogies from Adam to Abraham in Genesis 5 and 11, then adding in the time from Abraham to today.

Adam was created on day 6, so there were five days before him. If we add up the dates from Adam to Abraham, we get about 2,000 years, using the Masoretic Hebrew text of Genesis 5 and 11.3 Whether Christian or secular, most scholars would agree that Abraham lived about 2,000 B.C. (4,000 years ago).

So a simple calculation is:

5 days
+ ~2,000 years
+ ~4,000 years
~6,000 years
At this point, the first five days are negligible. Quite a few people have done this calculation using the Masoretic text (which is what most English translations are based on) and with careful attention to the biblical details, they have arrived at the same time frame of about 6,000 years, or about 4000 B.C. Two of the most popular, and perhaps best, are a recent work by Dr. Floyd Jones4 and a much earlier book by Archbishop James Ussher5 (1581–1656). See table 1.

Table 1. Jones and Ussher

Name Age Calculated Reference and Date
Archbishop James Ussher 4004 B.C. The Annals of the World, A.D. 1658
Dr. Floyd Nolan Jones 4004 B.C. The Chronology of the Old Testament, A.D. 1993
The misconception exists that Ussher and Jones were the only ones to arrive at a date of 4000 B.C.; however, this is not the case at all. Jones6 lists several chronologists who have undertaken the task of calculating the age of the earth based on the Bible, and their calculations range from 5501 to 3836 B.C. A few are listed in table 2.

Table 2. Chronologists’ Calculations According to Dr. Jones

Chronologist When Calculated? Date B.C.
1 Julius Africanus c. 240 5501
2 George Syncellus c. 810 5492
3 John Jackson 1752 5426
4 Dr William Hales c. 1830 5411
5 Eusebius c. 330 5199
6 Marianus Scotus c. 1070 4192
7 L. Condomanus n/a 4141
8 Thomas Lydiat c. 1600 4103
9 M. Michael Maestlinus c. 1600 4079
10 J. Ricciolus n/a 4062
11 Jacob Salianus c. 1600 4053
12 H. Spondanus c. 1600 4051
13 Martin Anstey 1913 4042
14 W. Lange n/a 4041
15 E. Reinholt n/a 4021
16 J. Cappellus c. 1600 4005
17 E. Greswell 1830 4004
18 E. Faulstich 1986 4001
19 D. Petavius c. 1627 3983
20 Frank Klassen 1975 3975
21 Becke n/a 3974
22 Krentzeim n/a 3971
23 W. Dolen 2003 3971
24 E. Reusnerus n/a 3970
25 J. Claverius n/a 3968
26 C. Longomontanus c. 1600 3966
27 P. Melanchthon c. 1550 3964
28 J. Haynlinus n/a 3963
29 A. Salmeron d. 1585 3958
30 J. Scaliger d. 1609 3949
31 M. Beroaldus c. 1575 3927
32 A. Helwigius c. 1630 3836
As you will likely note from table 2, the dates are not all 4004 B.C. There are several reasons chronologists have different dates,7 but two primary reasons:

Some used the Septuagint or another early translation instead of the Hebrew Masoretic text. The Septuagint is a Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament, done about 250 B.C. by about 70 Jewish scholars (hence it is often cited as the LXX, which is the Roman numeral for 70). It is good in most places, but appears to have a number of inaccuracies. For example, one relates to the Genesis chronologies where the LXX indicates that Methuselah would have lived past the Flood, without being on the ark!
Several points in the biblical time-line are not straightforward to calculate. They require very careful study of more than one passage. These include exactly how much time the Israelites were in Egypt and what Terah’s age was when Abraham was born. (See Jones’s and Ussher’s books for a detailed discussion of these difficulties.)
The first four in table 2 (bolded) are calculated from the Septuagint, which gives ages for the patriarchs’ firstborn much higher than the Masoretic text or the Samarian Pentateuch (a version of the Old Testament from the Jews in Samaria just before Christ). Because of this, the Septuagint adds in extra time. Though the Samarian and Masoretic texts are much closer, they still have a few differences. See table 3.8

Using data from table 2 (excluding the Septuagint calculations and including Jones and Ussher), the average date of the creation of the earth is 4045 B.C. This still yields an average of about 6,000 years for the age of the earth.

Table 3. Septuagint, Masoretic, and Samarian Early Patriarchal Ages at the Birth of the Following Son

Name Masoretic Samarian Pentateuch Septuagint
Adam 130 130 230
Seth 105 105 205
Enosh 90 90 190
Cainan 70 70 170
Mahalaleel 65 65 165
Jared 162 62 162
Enoch 65 65 165
Methuselah 187 67 167
Lamech 182 53 188
Noah 500 500 500
Extra-biblical Calculations for the Age of the Earth

Cultures throughout the world have kept track of history as well. From a biblical perspective, we would expect the dates given for creation of the earth to align more closely to the biblical date than billions of years.

This is expected since everyone was descended from Noah and scattered from the Tower of Babel. Another expectation is that there should be some discrepancies about the age of the earth among people as they scattered throughout the world, taking their uninspired records or oral history to different parts of the globe.

Under the entry “creation,” Young’s Analytical Concordance of the Bible9 lists William Hales’s accumulation of dates of creation from many cultures, and in most cases Hales says which authority gave the date. See table 4.

Historian Bill Cooper’s research in After the Flood provides intriguing dates from several ancient cultures.10 The first is that of the Anglo-Saxons, whose history has 5,200 years from creation to Christ, according to the Laud and Parker Chronicles. Cooper’s research also indicated that Nennius’s record of the ancient British history has 5,228 years from creation to Christ. The Irish chronology has a date of about 4000 B.C. for creation, which is surprisingly close to Ussher and Jones! Even the Mayans had a date for the Flood of 3113 B.C.

This meticulous work of many historians should not be ignored. Their dates of only thousands of years are good support for the biblical date of about 6,000 years, but not for billions of years.

Table 4. Selected Dates for the Age of the Earth by Various Cultures

Culture Age, B.C. Authority listed by Hales
Spain by Alfonso X 6984 Muller
Spain by Alfonso X 6484 Strauchius
India 6204 Gentil
India 6174 Arab records
Babylon 6158 Bailly
Chinese 6157 Bailly
Greece by Diogenes Laertius 6138 Playfair
Egypt 6081 Bailly
Persia 5507 Bailly
Israel/Judea by Josephus 5555 Playfair
Israel/Judea by Josephus 5481 Jackson
Israel/Judea by Josephus 5402 Hales
Israel/Judea by Josephus 4698 University history
India 5369 Megasthenes
Babylon (Talmud) 5344 Petrus Alliacens
Vatican (Catholic using the Septuagint) 5270 N/A
Samaria 4427 Scaliger
German, Holy Roman Empire by Johannes Kepler* 3993 Playfair
German, reformer by Martin Luther* 3961 N/A
Israel/Judea by computation 3760 Strauchius
Israel/Judea by Rabbi Lipman* 3616 University history
* Luther, Kepler, Lipman, and the Jewish computation likely used biblical texts to determinethe date.
The Origin of the Old-earth Worldview

Prior to the 1700s, few believed in an old earth. The approximate 6,000-year age for the earth was challenged only rather recently, beginning in the late 18th century. These opponents of the biblical chronology essentially left God out of the picture. Three of the old-earth advocates included Comte de Buffon, who thought the earth was at least 75,000 years old. Pièrre LaPlace imagined an indefinite but very long history. And Jean Lamarck also proposed long ages.11

However, the idea of millions of years really took hold in geology when men like Abraham Werner, James Hutton, William Smith, Georges Cuvier, and Charles Lyell used their interpretations of geology as the standard, rather than the Bible. Werner estimated the age of the earth at about one million years. Smith and Cuvier believed untold ages were needed for the formation of rock layers. Hutton said he could see no geological evidence of a beginning of the earth; and building on Hutton’s thinking, Lyell advocated “millions of years.”

From these men and others came the consensus view that the geologic layers were laid down slowly over long periods of time based on the rates at which we see them accumulating today. Hutton said:

The past history of our globe must be explained by what can be seen to be happening now. . . . No powers are to be employed that are not natural to the globe, no action to be admitted except those of which we know the principle.12
This viewpoint is called naturalistic uniformitarianism, and it excludes any major catastrophes such as Noah’s flood. Though some, such as Cuvier and Smith, believed in multiple catastrophes separated by long periods of time, the uniformitarian concept became the ruling dogma in geology.

God's Word is Truth
Thinking biblically, we can see that the global flood in Genesis 6–8 would wipe away the concept of millions of years, for this Flood would explain massive amounts of fossil layers. Most Christians fail to realize that a global flood could rip up many of the previous rock layers and redeposit them elsewhere, destroying the previous fragile contents. This would destroy any evidence of alleged millions of years anyway. So the rock layers can theoretically represent the evidence of either millions of years or a global flood, but not both. Sadly, by about 1840, even most of the Church had accepted the dogmatic claims of the secular geologists and rejected the global flood and the biblical age of the earth.

After Lyell, in 1899, Lord Kelvin (William Thomson) calculated the age of the earth, based on the cooling rate of a molten sphere, at a maximum of about 20–40 million years (this was revised from his earlier calculation of 100 million years in 1862).13 With the development of radiometric dating in the early 20th century, the age of the earth expanded radically. In 1913, Arthur Holmes’s book, The Age of the Earth, gave an age of 1.6 billion years.14 Since then, the supposed age of the earth has expanded to its present estimate of about 4.5 billion years (and about 14 billion years for the universe).

Table 5. Summary of the Old-earth Proponents for Long Ages

Who? Age of the Earth When Was This?
Comte de Buffon 78 thousand years old 1779
Abraham Werner 1 million years 1786
James Hutton Perhaps eternal, long ages 1795
Pièrre LaPlace Long ages 1796
Jean Lamarck Long ages 1809
William Smith Long ages 1835
Georges Cuvier Long ages 1812
Charles Lyell Millions of years 1830–1833
Lord Kelvin 20–100 million years 1862–1899
Arthur Holmes 1.6 billion years 1913
Clair Patterson 4.5 billion years 1956
But there is growing scientific evidence that radiometric dating methods are completely unreliable.15

Christians who have felt compelled to accept the millions of years as fact and try to fit them into the Bible need to become aware of this evidence. It confirms that the Bible’s history is giving us the true age of the creation.

Today, secular geologists will allow some catastrophic events into their thinking as an explanation for what they see in the rocks. But uniformitarian thinking is still widespread, and secular geologists will seemingly never entertain the idea of the global, catastrophic flood of Noah’s day.

The age of the earth debate ultimately comes down to this foundational question: Are we trusting man’s imperfect and changing ideas and assumptions about the past? Or are we trusting God’s perfectly accurate eyewitness account of the past, including the creation of the world, Noah’s global flood, and the age of the earth?

https://answersingenesis.org/age-of-the-earth/how-old-is-the-earth/


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So are you saying that beginning is not referring to a temporal point. What does beginning mean in Genesis 1:1 then?

And how much time passes between Genesis 1:2 and 1:3?

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[quote=PerfectSpiral]Where Did a Young-earth Worldview Come


What’s the matter? You can’t read and understand a text for yourself you need someone to interpret it for you. When do you plan to start thinking for yourself? The text has a gap between the beginning gen. 1 and day 1. Gen 1:3. It’s called Genesis 1:2. We don’t know how long it is, so we cannot date the earth. Simple. God didn’t put that in there because he didn’t feel the need to give a date of the creation of the Earth I’m not saying I’m a young earther and I’m not saying I’m an old earther. The Bible doesn’t even care to date the Earth.

Oh and btw, biblical geneologies are not always complete. Because they’re not dating mechanisms. Their purpose is usually to establish bloodline.

synagogue. 11 Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, xexamining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Acts 17:10-11

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Originally Posted by Stiffarm
Christians forcing other people to believe what they believe or forcing people to live a certain way is unrelated to the OP, and I do not endorse those things. This thread is about what Christians believe what they don’t believe that is what the OP. stated.

Nobody ever forces anyone to believe anything they don't believe. Nobody has control over your thoughts and beliefs but yourself.

As for "forcing to live a certain way"... isn't that what every set of laws is? All laws are based in a belief system which sets the boundaries for a set of values.
Stolen blatantly from Google AI: A belief system is a set of principles and values that help people interpret the world around them. These systems can be based on religion, politics, philosophy, or other ideologies. They are shaped by a variety of factors, including culture, society, and personal influences. Societies and civilizations grow around common belief systems and their laws grow up around them.

As for what Christians believe... the answer to that is as individualistic as every Christian you might ask.


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Originally Posted by Stiffarm
So are you saying that beginning is not referring to a temporal point. What does beginning mean in Genesis 1:1 then?

And how much time passes between Genesis 1:2 and 1:3?

If humans didn't invent the concept of Time, would ANY time have passed?


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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