DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A New Course

J/C: Several thoughts have popped into my head while reading these posts. My first is the question of whether or not Haslam really trusts Berry to conduct the reboot/rebuild of this team (assuming that's where we are headed). If what we see now is the result of Berry's running of the football side of the organization, then I wonder if he should be given the opportunity to do so, and quite frankly don't think he should. The other thought I have is related in that if Berry and Stefanski are both part of a rebuild, then it leads me to believe that Haslam was the driving force behind acquiring Watson, which might lead him to give Berry and Stefanski a pass. If they were the ones who went to Haslam and said, "Get us Watson at all costs," then I don't see how either of them could/should be around for the next chapter. Either way, it's a mess.

The most logical guys to trade are guys not likely in the plan for 2025+. To me, that is Newsome (not as good as he'll want $), Z Smith (contract $ does not equal the production), Q Jefferson (an AB vet acquisition that can't get active on gameday), Thornhill (if someone were dumb enough to do that trade), E Moore (another bad AB vet acquisition), Foreman (if someone were dumb enough to make that trade).

I could see them try and trade Wills to a sucker IF Ifedi is healthy and Adeniji can return from IR...Bitonio could ask to be traded to a contender (I think he'll retire after this season).

I think they will look to upgrade the C position next year and Teller and D Jones could very-well be the only returning OL for '25.

I imagine that eating Ward's deferred $ along with Watson's makes him untradeable...I'm not a salary cap guru so maybe not.

None of us know how that went down but since it DID...it is hard to imagine - if not impossible - that AB and/or KS were not all in with it...and one or both were likely carrying that water.

If either of those guys were an adamant NO...that guy could stay.

We have to remember that not only were they wrong about Watson...they were wrong about Baker...or couldn't figure out how to manage Baker. Blowing 3 1st Rd picks+ AND that < is astonishing.

Blown 3rd round picks like Schwartz & Ika (and Bell IMO)... on top of that ^ debacle is quite damning.

Signing/acquiring vets like E Moore & Q Jefferson is reading some pre-draft scouting report over evaluating vet talent.

Extending Wills and Conklin like they did is like stealing Jimmah's money with impunity.

So we have...a failure to identify a QB (twice)...poor drafting after the 1st Rd picks that we pee'd away...questionable vet acquisition and peeing away big $$$ on (2) tackles who aren't good or healthy. Other than that though things are good. /sarcasm

Throwing in a JOK and an up-until-recenty Emerson and you have a FO that manages the cap well - that they spend on lesser talent - that can't overcome that ^ debacle.

Sorry, dawgs! I misread the thread title.

I thought it was "A New Curse" at first glance. Well, maybe . . . .

I simply can’t understand your conclusion about seeing both our GM and HC as good people (in the sense of professionalism) because the Watson deal is probably one of the worst trades in the history of NFL.

The probability rate between Failure vs. Success was almost 80% in favor of him not succeeding.
If you before the trade stack all the negatives against the positive parts it’s like a skyscraper against a tiny one floor building.

It’s mind blowing and pure incompetence to not factor a worst case scenario with all the information available.

I fully understand those who defend Stefanski but on the other hand he belong to the group who enabled this without showing any sorts of skepticism or remorse.

The rest of your post I fully agree with.

You make some very good points but this franchise can’t afford to move on a with “business as usual” after such an enormous fiasco.
The whole organization looks like incompetent amateurs if this ends without consequences or someone internally isn’t hold accountable.

You can make an argument for any 1 of our starting corners being moved for draft pick(s). I know Ward is the best, but he's also the most expensive and the most injury-prone. I would imagine he would also bring the highest return.

From my own personal experience, the perception of our Browns to others is not very good. It's been pretty much that way since we came back. I've gotten to the point I don't care what others think. People that know me over the years believe I have a good amount of knowledge of the major sports. If they asked me to tell them what is wrong with my Browns I wouldn't know where to begin and if I found where to begin I could probably talk about what's wrong for a day or two; nonstop!!!

What I’m arguing is that before we decide to pick a new QB and move forward Jimmy needs to find the right people at the Browns commando board who’s capable to punch above their weight class.

I understand what you posted and really don't disagree with you in principal. No person who spends billions on a team wants to fail. Of course their goal is to succeed. The problem is at some point we have to be objective enough to own up to the fact that he has failed miserably at that to this point. I think that's a pretty objective view.

DW's actions are why most have kicked him. He's a despicable human being. Some people bring that on themselves. He is no innocent victim. Just the very hint that is somehow true I find revolting.

Becoming famous in such a young age comes with challenges that many can’t handle if they don’t have the guidance from someone with more life experience.

That doesn’t take away the responsibility of his actions but maybe with more knowledge about his past it can explain why he became so self destructive despite being blessed with both talent and that right opportunities.


Sometimes it snows in April - Prince

How much guidance do you think it takes to know that sexually assaulting women is wrong? How challenging exactly do you think it is not to sexually assault women? Some things go beyond finding excuses for.

Looking in the mirror and being self critical is never going to kick karma's azz.

I think if you look at the last years of BB's career his time of having the ability to build a team had passed. As with most great football minds, at some point the game evolves faster than they do. And another thing about BB is he was the HC and the GM. There's nobody else to blame for his downfall.

The evidence dictates to me that Brady had more to do with BB's success than BB had to do with Brady's success. Now I suppose one might suggest that he consult on how to get lucky and find the greatest NFL QB of all time in the 6th round but for some reason I think that's more luck than anything.

Buddy, From your original post here.

No new course. We've waited long enough. At this point, move the team so that our kids (who are in their 30s) and our grandkids (who are 1-10) can root for the Indians and/or Cavs. If you want entertaining football around Cleveland, look to Columbus.

In order to get something you have to trade something.

I'd look to trade Njoku. We might get a 2nd rounder for him.

I'd trade many of the others mentioned, but due to their contracts and or age, we won't get very much.
A guy like ward is paid too much to be attractive. Not to mention his injury history. Players on one year deals don't get much.

No argument on the injury history, this is from spotrac.

In 2024, Ward will earn a base salary of $1,125,000 and a restructure bonus of $14,199,000, while carrying a cap hit of $12,138,918 and a dead cap value of $54,494,000. His cap hits over the next few years are $24.5M, $30.5M, and $27.5M, respectively, with an out after 2025.

I dunno, that's not too bad of an overpay for a team that's in their window and needs a top-flight corner.

We need a QB who can put points on the scoreboard. I can see shedding a couple big contracts to open cap space, and we will Z, but we don’t need to have a complete fire sale and dismantle the defence.

Our season seems like it was doomed from the beginning, with the injuries on OL and the problems we had with brain-dead penalties, very bad QB play et cetera.

We just need a quarterback, it’s really that easy!!!

Joking aside, we should have kept Flacco. Many of us said it then.

We just need a QB who FITS our head coach's system. He made Brissett/Walker/Keenum serviceable (and they are bad players)

Just someone who can operate in the under center/play action/zone blocking system

Yeah as really need a QB type as also need someone that doesn't have baggage off the field!

I hope you are right. I still think the injury thing is a big issue since it is concussions that sideline Ward. It isn't just random, freak injuries. A broken wrist can be washed off as bad luck. Brain injuries are harder to wash away because they tend to repeat.

LOL....Oobs, you have my permission to trade the guy tomorrow.

We actually had that before the FO decided to trash up the team with DW.

You can certainly learn some things from BB. You can also learn that after Brady left how everything went to hell in a hand basket. And of course you can look at his record. Just like you can look at any boxers great record. But when you look at a boxers career or BB's record you also need to look at the progression of their careers. A boxer isn't the same at age 40 as he was when he was 25.

As it pertains to the NFL the entire game has changed. Some managed to keep up with those changes and some tried to stick with the same old same old. Woody Hayes was a great coach too. Just like Tom Brady was a great QB until time caught up with him. There's a difference between were great and are great.

I am too. I am also convinced that we're not getting him. The way AB burned through and wasted the draft and salary cap capital that was gifted to him, there's no indication whatsoever that he's going to get this right.

Browns’ Myles Garrett on the approaching trade deadline: ‘I’ll be playing here’

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...5VPAisJMPXojQ_aem_IqQ6lCaqWe0GfrNPwTHW8Q

I get what you're saying but even the BB coaching tree has not been awe inspiring. I think the problem with BB getting hired in Dallas is that BB has been not only the HC but the GM during his time at New England. He's used to having total control. Jerry Jones is a control freak. I can't see him standing on the sidelines and turning the reigns of total control over to anyone. Even BB. That certainly doesn't look like a match made in heaven to me. But who knows? Anything is possible.

The only thing I really have to add pertain to your comment about Berry. I don't doubt that he is smart and maybe open minded. I'm not so sure about that.

But regardless of how smart someone is, everyone has their talents and also their limitations. Some things they excel at and other things not so much. Based on the evidence at hand I think running an NFL falls into the "not so much" category as it pertains to Berry.

If it was me, this draft would be to find a LT as high as we can draft him. I don't think drafting a QB high this year is going to get a franchise guy.

Maybe our new course is stocking the QB room washed up ex-starters and make Cleveland the place QBs come to regain their starting chops.