DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2024 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 14 Saints 35 Post Game Rants

P A T H E T I C.

Is it too late to go back to when I was a child, in Michigan, and claim lifelong fandom of the Lions?

No? Darn it.

sad when we can't beat a Joe Woods defense

I literally don't even care. And thats sad.

pathetic team

j/c

I thought we had a chance at 14-14. We had the momentum, but you know. Thornhill I never want to see on the field again.

Jimmy, Don’t you dare fire them now. Wait until next week, when Steelers fans have overtaken Cleveland Stadium, and cheer on as the Steelers beat us by 40. Then you can fire everyone.

Loser Browns franchise.

Just tank the rest of the season. We won't win another game anyways. Tank for the #1 pick so we can blow that one too

Of course you care or you wouldn't be posting right now. We all care, deep down, but have to erect our emotional defenses....

You really want AB picking #1 overall?

Same ol' Browns (sighs).....

Just not good. Jameis did well but the defense was absent.

Stefanski wins coach of the year twice yet he can’t get the team to maintain when they do improve. The same applies to the front office.

The Fan had the Saturday guy putting out a poll asking if the city got a domed stadium downtown but had to take a new team would that be acceptable? Since this team is not the Browns anyway I would have no problem with that. Calling the 1999 expansion team “The Browns” did not create any actual continuity to the team that Modell stole.

A complete tear down meaning a new team and owners would have a better chance of building a playoff team.

Once again, the Ravens and Steelers the darlings of the AFCN and the Browns DEEP in the basement.

It’s hard to believe this team is actually this bad but to be fair the signs have been there for Stefanskis entire time as HC.

Just get the #1 secured and let whomever is in charge pick it.

Guys going through the motions.

I guess what I’m wondering from your statement is if you actually believe that AB will lose his job because at this moment I don’t think he does.

Clean house now! I am fed up. That is all.

Not a great year to have No. 1 overall. Stefanski just lacks intensity. He didn’t prepare the team at all in preseason. If they are going to make a change, Vrabel is right there. If they wait, he will be in big demand.

STEELERS WIN! 8-2! John Dorsey and the Lions, 9-1!

Thank You Jimmy! You bleeping crook!

Worse owner than Modell.

Coach of the year is a over rated award and kind of meaningless
The only coach of year is the one that wins a SB
Stefanski really didn't deserve it

Anybody that thinks Berry should retain his job is just
Fooling themselves

With this dysfunctional organization, who the hell knows. I thought the Browns would be good this year, so there's that.

- Just a garbage franchise from starting at the very top and permeating all the way to the bottom.

- Winston with ~400 yards and 2 TDs and the team musters 14 points.

- Special Teams are dreadful.

- Defense has thrown in the towel. I'd fire Jim Schwartz because he still has the defense dance troupe performing when they're losing. Otherwise, they get dinged for a "loaf." <eyeroll emoji>

- Hopkins is toast.

- Haslam's House of Horrors will be packed with Steelers fans on TNF.

- Seven more attempts at playing professional football before this season comes to an end.

Go Cavs!

Speaking of Vrabel, I saw him on the sideline. Is this a new development? I know he is there for home games, but my understanding is he wasn't going to travel with the team.

Mike Tomlinson deserves it more than Stefanski. Never had a losing season with the bottom feeder QBs over the last few years? I hate to go there but this is way beyond unacceptable. No one DESERVES to have a job tomorrow.

No one.

Well how long is everyone going to excuse Stefanski?? When players quit on the the team with half a season go to.. the coach and Gm have to be held responsible. From the weak training camp, to Dorsey trying call spread plays, to Special Treams being crap and not pulling Watson earlier... all points to Stefanksi... Then the GM picks up players who dont play or are not players..aka Juan Thornhill.. Both Stefanski and Berry gotta go!!...

STs has been a big disappointment too ... our coverage teams are so bad

I hate to see it again and I'm getting too old for it. But it's really hard to argue against it with these past 2 performances.

At this point somebody has to go.

The players looked like they gave up. There is something differently wrong with the culture and it starts with the owner. Sadly that can't be changed. Might as well tank the rest of the season and try and get the #1 overall pick at this point.

And BTW... Paul D Podesta should be fired also!!... what has be brought to the table???

You know what’s P A T H E T I C?

This whole thread is just an extension of the Game Day thread, which is usually a cesspool of over-emotional, “fire the coaches” ranting and, true raving.

I wish we had more posters who want to discuss the game in an intelligent fashion. But no. We have guys wanting to move the team, fire coaches, the GM. We were tied in the fourth quarter against an offence that looks really fast. We gave up too many big plays today, obviously.

If it’s any consolation we are taking far fewer pre-snap penalties. . .

I thought Jameis had a very good game, and when he wasn’t the victim of a collapsed pocket, threw with authority and on time.

They took Myles out of the game, he was barely a factor. Our STs have been a Big problem all year. Hopkins missed every kick he tried, we gave up at least two long returns. Including the backbreaking punt return in the fourth.

The Lions OC Ben Johnson will probably be available after the season.

And also , today’s game didn’t show me a team that’s given up.

The Lions used to be the joke of the NFL now look at them. You know what happened? They got an owner who actually cares about winning. That needs to happen in Cleveland.

The Lions look like the favorites to win the SB but I have a feeling they are going to blow it somehow like they did against The Niners last year. Anyway, I am more concerned about how to fix this mess in Cleveland known as the Browns. New ownership maybe the answer but that's not going to happen.

I think this game will be very close. These division games always are. And you already beat the Ravens, thank you.

The Ford family has owned the Lions since the dawn of the NFL.

the Lions OC will have his pick of jobs - he's already turned down Carolina and Seattle. He wouldn't take this job IMO

Agreed. No depth, no qb, no cap, only an absolute idiot would sign here.

And as us idiot Browns fans follow, the rebuilding Broncos are 5-5 and have won 3 superbowls in our lifetime. We are the biggest losers in nfl history. Even Modell won a superbowl.

Hill destroyed the defense.

We give up way too many big plays.

Can’t finish drives.

My wife and I were talking tonight, and she asked, "If your chat board was asked by Haslam, how do we fix the Browns?" - what would be the answer. My answer was as complex as the problem; these are just my opinions.

Problems:
1. The Browns paid Ferrari money for a used Equinox. Worse yet, that Equinox can't stay out of the repair shop and the Browns are locked into paying the Equinox off.
2. Because of how much that Equinox cost in money and incentives, the Browns are "draft pick poor" by not having 3 years of Round 1 talent. That means they're not only stuck with the Equinox, but they also have a parking lot full of Budget Rental fleet vehicles.
3. Suspect Coaching skills in that no one seems to be able to prepare this team week-to-week, there is no culture and no accountability for sloppy play. Jedrick Wills anyone?
4 Presumption of a meddling Owner; are the coaches really free to to coach/bench players?
5. Will there actually be any coaching personnel in the league that would take over a crap Equinox and a fleet of rental cars?

Solutions:
1. The hard part is, even if the Browns fire the entire front office and their brother-in-laws, you still have the Owner level that seems to think they're football geniuses. The Haslam clan needs to agree to just fork out money and leave the football to the people they hire for that. Get real Football people running the group, not some Ivy League grad who's great with spreadsheets.
2. Stop using Analytics for Offensive game planning and play calls.
3. No matter what, it's a minimum of 3 years before this team looks like a football team again. That's what it's going to take to make it past what is for all practical purposes an expansion team in talent.
4. Trade Garrett and maybe Chubb next year for draft capital -2nd rounders minimum. If no takers for a 2nd rounder, keep them and play them out.

Worse case scenario - we all go root for the Lions because they at least were spawned from some old school Ohio football (Ironton Tanks/Portsmouth Spartans).

I'm done babbling... LOL

j/c.

Literally, for the first time in my life, I dozed off watching the game today. And when I say literally, I mean it. 0-16? I didn't miss a play. All the other seasons, I didn't miss a play although over the years I have recorded some of the games. Bur, Ive watched them. Today? Nah.

I know it’s not just Cleveland fans but it seems like it’s way more pronounced in Cleveland than where I am (NY metro area) or the other places I’ve lived in my old-a$$ life (Cincinnati, San Fran, L.A. and the Boston area). Cleveland fans just get so catastrophic. Part of it is just that they care way more. All the other places I’ve lived, the majority of the populations were just much less personally invested in their city’s sports teams. Except maybe Yankees & Rangers fans. But as a percentage of the citywide head count they’re much smaller. Not going to over analyze it, I have opinions why it’s the case but the point is it leads to a lot of crazy talk real quick.

Truth be told, I’m actually rooting for us to lose. We need to be as high in every round of the draft as possible. We need to wash this stain called Watson off our starting roster asap. It’s more advantageous to lose to the other bad teams than it is to lose to better teams. I want to beat the Steelers and Ravens every time but we’re officially competing with New Orleans for draft order.

Yea, I know, it’s loser talk. But we’re losers this year, plain and simple. Play all rookies and scrubs and win at losing.

Cleveland has always been a diehard football town. Though I see the younger generation being far more passionate about the Cavs and Guardians. Browns are their "third team" in the Cleveland sports pecking order.

Cleveland Browns fans are starved for a Super Bowl. This city has had one championship (thanks Bron Bron!) in modern times and 1.3M fans showed up for the parade. People are tired of the complete and utter incompetence of the Browns. It's not unreasonable. This franchise was moved and ripped from the fans, and in the quarter century since the return in 1999, have been for the most part, a bumbling embarrassment. Is it too much to expect a professional level of competency?

Boston fans are extremely passionate about their sports teams but they win championships all the time. L.A. has enjoyed numerous titles. San Fran numerous titles. Cincinnati, at least they've been to a Super Bowl(s)

Since 2000:

Boston

Patriot Championships - 6
Celtic Championships - 2
Red Sox Championships - 4
Bruins Championships - 1

Los Angeles

Raiders/Rams/Chargers Championships - 1
Dodgers Championships - 2
Lakers/Clippers Championships - 6
Kings Championships - 2

San Francisco

49ers Championships - 0
Warriors Championships - 4
Giants Championships - 3

Cinicnnati

Bengals Championships - 0
Reds Championships - 0

Cleveland

Browns Championships - 0
Indians/Guardians Championships - 0
Cavs Championships - 1

I've mentioned this before, but I have never felt this city have such hate and contempt for this current Browns team as they do now. Not through all the 4-12 and 5-11 seasons. Not through 1-31. This current team (save for Garrett, Chubb Ward) is just despised. I'm sure a lot of that has to do with Watson and Haslam. It will go a long way in just moving on from Watson. The stadium may be burnt to the ground if they (Haslam) try and bring him back next year.

I think the biggest reason this team is more hated then ever is the constant failing under expectations. Every single time we go one step forward we got 5 steps back the very next season.. That should tell you all you need to know about this staff. For me, I don't get upset or angry. What I feel most is apathy. It's really hard to get excited about a single thing on this team. Unless wholesale changes are made, it will continue. Thank god the other 2 teams in this city are giving us memorable seasons. I think the browns could leave town right now and noone would miss them this time.. I think most if not all would welcome that if it meant getting haslam out of this state

Yep. As concerning, if wholesale changes are made, it's Haslam and his dopey son-in-law leading the search.



Two very likable teams. I'm thankful Cleveland is a three sport town.


Haslam is detested. If the $1.5B he needs in taxpayer funding for the Brook Park dome became a ballot measure, I'd bet on it failing. He knows he needs to put a good product on the field in order to get fan support for the dome and buy the PSL fees they'll want to charge.

It's a minimum of 3 years unless we strike lighting in a bottle and fluke it with some signings and the next HC and GM .... but even with good/great hires and 'good' drafting it's 3 years to be back to where we were in 2019 / 2020.

To be fair, I watched a good chunk of the game and I really don't know what to make of it. We were moving the ball (except at the end when it was time to take the lead), but couldn't put up points against a VERY suspect defense that (up until yesterday) couldn't run the ball and was down a guy or two in their secondary.

Dhop... it was fun while it lasted (?).

Defense has some serious issues. We had yet another blown coverage that was supposed to be fixed by firing Joe Woods. I also didn't see anywhere NEAR enough of Derek Carr getting harassed by our vaunted front. If anyone has, in fact, packed it in... it would be D. They are WAY too talented to be getting boat-raced by Taysom Hill and Kamara.

I was pleasantly surprised by Ifedi, but I don't expect him to hold up at LT if Wills can't come back. Certainly not against the Steelers on a short week.

You know who's going full tilt each week? Winston and Njoku. I feel like those two are good leaders in an otherwise rudderless offense. Tillman seems to be establishing his floor as a good #2. It's not what we need right now but there's value there.

To me, it looked like our secondary is lost out there. Leaving people wide wide open for easy checkdown first downs.

Special teams looks abysmal, but honestly I think it's less an issue with the unit and more of a team-give-a-rip issue. Both those ST chunk plays and critical defensive breakdowns featured poor awareness and worse tackling.

Somebody in another post mentioned 'likeable'. Over the course of Haslam's ownership, what can we hang out hat on? Chubb? The guy that picked him got ran out of town because he couldn't play nice with the baseball guy.


I probably only speak for myself, but for me it's just that I've hit my limit with this team. Time and time again of not getting the QB position right and then watching Pittsburgh fall into two competent QBs and their strong units actually playing like strong units vs withering in the face of adversity.

To anyone who thinks that it will be close on Thursday, keep dreaming. They’re not only playing for a playoff spot, but they’re also going for the top seed.

Meanwhile, yet again our losers are already in offseason mode trying to take care of their bodies so that they can enjoy the tropics asap.

This is the game. This is the one that will cause Jimmy to clean house.

Must be nice to be a Steelers or Ravens fan.

Every damn year.

The other thing: it's great to see Chubb out there, but it sucks to watch I'm at 50% of his old self

I agree, I think Haslam does care about winning, but the issue is it has to be born from his actions apparently. He's hired who he thinks will get the job done, despite the contrary of evidence and no evidence that they can do it. He had the setup when he hired Dorsey, Kitchens aside (everyone loved him at the time, so its easy to see why he was trying to keep it going with Baker) but Dorsey had a track record of building winners everywhere, left here and did the same thing.. Haslam chose wrong and picked Depo over Dorsey. I'd love to get him back and just let him go to work, but regardless, thats the kind of person we need making the football decisions.. Not nerds with calculators that have no track record of doing this before coming here. Haslam has a desire to be successful, but his ego will not allow him to be

He looked more like himself. I think by the end of season, he'll probably close out with a couple hundred yard games. Its just a matter of taking the snap count limit off.. 11 rushes , its hard for any back to get in a groove

I also feel JH cares about winning. Right now, I would keep KS and AB. I don't know how things will end up by the end of the season so that could change. Right now we're in a mess and I really don't know who would want to come here and straight it out. AB might be the only one who could do it.

AB is probably the biggest reason we are in the situation we are in. Horrible contracts, trades, FA signings that haven't done much despite big $$, his drafting has been putrid. I would keep KS over Berry. Berry and Depo I believe are the two biggest detriments to the team. So yeah if theres going to be a rebuild, AB should be nowhere near it.

J/C I just can't get over the fact that the team came out of the bye knowing they were playing the Saints, and the defense in particular looked like they had never even watched any film. This is inexcusable and falls on coaching and management. It was as though Taysom Hill just appeared out of nowhere and the Browns had no idea.

I do think Haslam wants to win and cares about winning...

...but he's also been the only consistent factor when it comes to the Factory of Sadness...

Just leave everyone in place. The Browns need to lose out and get the #1 pick. THEN fire everyone and MAYBE hire FOOTBALL people to run the FOOTBALL team. Keep Vrabel and build around his attitude (if he is dumb enough to take the job). Thanks to EVERYONE involved in the Watson experiment (including the "experts" "managing" the cap numbers). GENIUS moves there guys. Round up the GM, the coaching staff, the Chief "Strategy" Officer, the analytics knuckleheads and anyone I missed and get them the HELL out of Berea. And Jimmy, for the love of God, PLEASE find someone with a brain to HELP you hire EXPERIENCED FOOTBALL people. SMH

I'm really not going to disagree with you but I think one thing is obvious here. A new GM never wants the previous regime's HC. He wants to and will install his own coaching staff that he has hand selected. So if Berry goes, so does Stefanski. They're pretty much tied at the hip.

I feel like Chubb was rushed back. At this point, just sit him. It's not worth the risk. We owe him that much at least.

Remember smart, tough and accountable???

That went out the window when Watson was signed.

Analytics has its place, but a players heart and desire cannot be measured by analytics. See Flacco.

The Browns will reap the mess that they have sown for a few more years before this is over.

The Browns are the league’s laughingstock so why mixed feelings?

Secondly in a result based business age doesn’t count as something positive if the results doesn’t come and being so called “smart” means nothing when you’re running a dysfunctional organization.

Btw. The Watson trade. Is that the definition of intelligence?

Graduate diploma means nothing if you can’t deliver and so far these guys are the face of probably Americas worst franchise in sports business,
The NFL version of Bud Light.

I may have missed it, who has claimed Haslam does not care about winning or want to win?

To me, he is a desparate, bumbling billionaire that believes he can buy his way to a Super Bowl. You cannot. See Woody Johnson and the Aaron Rodgers situation. The Jets are another dreadful organization.

Haslam cannot get out of his own way. Shortcuts are few and far between in the NFL. His decisions continue to set the franchise back.

Yeah for sure, I don't expect anyone to make it out alive if there's changes in the FO, I'm just saying I think KS has proven more than Berry has so If I had to pick. But the consistency of this regime from year to year makes it hard to keep either imo

100%

First off Happy Birthday lead!

I can't really say I disagree with you. Even with Winston having a pretty good game against the Saints the rest of the team simply fell apart. I wish I could put my finger on exactly what's going on here, but unlike others who think they know, unlike them I'm not going to pretend I do.

happy birthday buddy!

So basically he is Jerry Jones II. Great. Browns better PRAY Haslam changes his thought process or all you will have to show for the length of his ownership is a shiny new sports complex. I have to admit, after 50+ years, it's getting more difficult by the day to support the Browns. I am running out of hope and that is all I have at this point. SMH

Agreed. I feel the same way. It’s amazing that in the last 54 years since the merger we’ve had maybe 10 really good seasons. I don’t know how an organization can be that inept. Think about that for a minute.

The issue is it has been multiple organizations. Three different owners and multiple front offices during that time period.

Honest question: what the heck did everyone expect to see that is so different from what happened that you're all this upset?

This is who they are this year. It has been evident since Week 1.

We're currently the #3 pick with the Titans and the Jags ahead of us. We screwed up by beating the Jags (and the Ravens), but the Raiders could help us out by losing to the Jags just before Christmas.


I have to say, I don't think I'd mind this Draft: https://www.tankathon.com/nfl/browns

Exactly. That’s why it’s so ridiculous that none of them could get it right. You’d think one of them would be successful. If we didn’t know better you’d think they’re purposely trying to keep us a losing franchise.

NFL.com has us as number 2 right now.

https://www.nfl.com/news/2025-nfl-draft-order-week-12-2024-nfl-season

My only issue with that draft is while I'm not set on drafting a QB in the first round in this draft I don't want to waste a 2nd round pick on a QB with a low percentage of success. When they do select a QB in the draft I want them to aim higher than that.

I'm upset that we're seeing flashbacks of the Joe Woods defense, and that our defense from last year was either fools gold or has regressed as much as it has. In general, I'm upset that our Oline couldn't hold it together for another year or two and we have to add that to our list of glaring needs. I am more perplexed than anything as to why we are apparently leaning harder into the Dorsey offense even though Watson is out of the picture for this year.

The first year of memory for me was 1993 - that is 33 years of football

In those 33 years I would consider us having a "good" year 5 times (94, 02, 07, 20, 23). How WILD is that??

Thanks!

yeah I am at a loss anymore. We have a good season and everything looks like we are finally getting where we want to go, then the next season we are back to wondering what is wrong. Then teams like BAL and PITT seem to turn everything to gold. All I know is whoever figures it out will have books written and movies made about them.

Might want to check the math on that one.

We shouldn't overlook the fact that the opponents have had another year of film and an off-season to crush the D and prep for us. The offensive success, week after week, seems to be "deja vu all over again." We don't seem to correct, or adjust, much; tackling is lousy; we get surprised regularly; and we get gouged repeatedly. Add to that we blow our zone coverage, dress Thornhill, and keep giving 12 yard cushions and bump no one, we are only making us worse. We must be officially tanking.

Really BAD ownership. Pretty much sums it up. SMH