That process is ripe for abuse, and there will be ambulance chasing lawyer types hounding every person that this testing is used on. That said, I think there is a real need for a method to determine if someone is impaired from marijuana use. A while back, I ate a gummy at a party and there's no way in hell I could/should have been behind the wheel (I didn't drive). It was a pretty intense high that really affected my mental acuity and motor skills. I think just video taping the sobriety tests they use now will have to do.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Cops are already doing this, and it's assinine. I am all for a test that shows how impaired you are BUT no test exists yet. This can be a huge problem for me and others like me. I carry a vape pen with me everyplace I go. Some smuck sees the vape pen and assumes I am high and BAM DUI even though I don't use it while driving.
I don't even get high anymore. I use 25 MG of THC just to be able to sleep at night. The only way I know it's even in my system is 99 percent of my pain goes away. I can also tell very clearly when it wears off. But if I hit my vape pen 15 times in a row you wouldn't even notice a difference.
While breath tests have been invented for marijuana DUIs, none of them has proven to be reliable.
These breath tests aim to detect delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) on your breath. They are supposed to work like breath tests for alcohol, measuring blood alcohol content (BAC). However, no marijuana breath test has produced reliable results.[1]
Does THC show up on a blood test?
Police often turn to blood tests to detect marijuana impairment. These test your blood for THC.
After you ingest marijuana, THC, the active ingredient in the drug, attaches to your body’s fat cells. Those THC metabolites are gradually eliminated through the normal digestion process.
Blood tests can detect how much THC is in your bloodstream by measuring these metabolites.
Unfortunately, those metabolites are not eliminated at the same rate. Different people have different elimination rates. Some factors include:
how often you partake in marijuana use, how much you ingested the last time you used it, how you ingested it, your genetic makeup, and your metabolism.
As a result, THC can still be detected in your blood up to 12 hours after you have ingested it.[2] This can be longer than you would be too impaired by the drug to drive. This can lead to false positives, where you are sober but you fail the blood test.
Because these tests require a blood draw, they cannot be conducted during the traffic stop. Police will generally have to detain you and bring you to a hospital or the police station for the blood draw. To make a DUI arrest, they must have probable cause to believe you are too impaired to drive a motor vehicle. Additionally, police may need a warrant to require you to submit to a blood test.[3]
What other chemical tests can police use?
Police can use 2 other types of test to detect THC in your body:
urine tests, and/or saliva tests.
Both of these tests have some of the same drawbacks as a blood test.
Urine tests can detect THC in a person’s system up to 30 days after you ingested it.[4] Additionally, they generally cannot be conducted during the traffic stop.
Saliva tests can be done during the traffic stop with a simple swab. However, they can detect THC in your saliva up to 24 hours after you ingested it.
The long detection windows of both of these test results can lead to false positives.
Will field sobriety tests show marijuana impairment?
Law enforcement officers often use FSTs to detect cannabis impairment. However, studies have shown that they are very unreliable.
Most FSTs are designed to test your:
memory, muscle movement, coordination, and
A couple of common FSTs that police use when they suspect that you are under the influence of marijuana are the:
horizontal gaze nystagmus test, and one-leg stand.
However, these and other FSTs are poor indicators of marijuana impairment.[5] One study involved 184 participants who were either given THC or a placebo. Police officers then conducted FSTs on them. The officers claimed that:
only 81 percent of the participants who were given THC were, in fact impaired, while over 49 percent of the sober participants were impaired.[6]
What about the officer’s testimony?
The arresting officer’s testimony plays a big part in DUI cases involving marijuana. Officers generally report that they:
smelled the presence of marijuana, saw marijuana or other paraphernalia in the vehicle, thought that you were distracted during the stop, noticed that your pupils were dilated, and/or thought that they saw other signs of impairment.
Some police officers have special training in detecting signs of drug impairment. Known as drug recognition experts, or DREs, many have taken a course on drug detection. The requirements for DRE certification vary by state.
Is there a legal limit for marijuana DUI cases?
Since the legalization movement, a couple of states have passed laws that set a legal limit for marijuana impairment while driving. For example, in Montana, you are per se under the influence of marijuana, or presumed to be too impaired to drive, if a test shows that you have 5 nanograms of THC per milliliter of blood.[7]
This is similar to the per se legal limit of 0.08 percent for BAC in cases involving the influence of alcohol.
However, there is no scientific consensus that this level of THC makes you impaired.[8]
If the government would just get off their fat lazy behinds and drop pot from a schedule 1 drug to a schedule 4 drug the stuidies would go so much faster. Being listed as a schedule 1 drug. (Come on now nobody in there right mind thinks pot is as dangerous as : heroin, lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD),), 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (ecstasy), methaqualone, and peyote. or as bad as schedule 2 drugs Vicodin), cocaine, methamphetamine, methadone, hydromorphone (Dilaudid), meperidine (Demerol), oxycodone (OxyContin), fentanyl, Dexedrine, Adderall, and Ritali. Hell,other schedule IV drugs like Xanax, Soma, Darvon, Darvocet, Valium, Ativan, Talwin, Ambien, Tramadol are worse for you than pot.
It's just more BS they made up. I know it certainly works in the other direction in terms of DUI's with alcohol. Even if you pass the field sobriety test for a DUI they can ignore that and require you to take a breathalyzer test. I don't see how that isn't a form of double jeopardy. If the field sobriety test only works in their favor and if you pass it, it doesn't count, why give it to you in the first lace?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I don't even get high anymore. I use 25 MG of THC just to be able to sleep at night. The only way I know it's even in my system is 99 percent of my pain goes away. I can also tell very clearly when it wears off. But if I hit my vape pen 15 times in a row you wouldn't even notice a difference.
Oh, I believe you. They just need to determine and settle on what constitutes the minimal physical and mental skills needed to safely operate a motor vehicle (something better than the archaic FST's they use now, and less ridiculous than the tests mentioned in the article). If someone passes the test, they're not impaired and should be free to go. If they fail with video proof, then a tox screen should be done. Those tests and the use of a drug recognition expert as mentioned in the article are a total waste of time.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
This practice should be outlawed. It is entirely subjective in nature and easy to abuse.
The fact that there aren't any good alternatives has no bearing on the fact that this is complete garbage and should be inadmissible. Like, how any half-decent lawyer doesn't get any DRE testimony thrown out simply on the basis that their conclusions could be the result of anything at all is beyond me.
This, like civil forfeiture, is a complete crock and - I believe - an infringement of a Right to due process (this creates conditions for a wholly unfair trial as the prosecution is able to manufacture evidence based on an opinion).
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I’ve always wondered how easy or hard it is to get a dui. It seems like cops don’t want to give them out because a) it’s ruining someone’s life, b) the legal issues/court appearances for cops that ensue.
One of my buddies, about 8 years ago had a few too many at his girlfriend’s work Christmas party. - He was stupid enough to take a couple shots as well before leaving. They hop in his car, minutes later he doesn’t come to a complete stop at an intersection… the sirens come at him and you can imagine the butterflies in his stomach. He was nailed and he knew it. As the cop approaches, his girlfriend (passed out) rolls over and tells him that she’s pregnant. - Stroke of luck I suppose. The cop asks him to step out of the car, asks him how much he’d had to drink and he responds like a deer in headlights “Sir my girlfriend just told me she’s pregnant and I’m in shock right now.” Cop asks him if he’s ok to drive home and eventually let him go. - That’s one of many similar stories that I could share.
I’ve never driven drunk but have always wondered how many “morning after” dui’s occur. I imagine that people who drink all night still have enough booze in their system to pop for a dui, but I’ve never heard of anyone getting a dui on their morning drive to work/home.
Get the impaired off the road. If a trace of marijuana is found in your system. I do not want you on the roads with my family. Same as alcohol. If your impaired, you have no business on the roads.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
So according to law if you have less than .08 in your blood you are not impaired. But according to you if you even have a trace of THC in your system you must be impaired? Hmmmm....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I've had a few years experience as a DUI lawyer in Colorado, which was the first state to legalize recreational MJ. My opinions, FWIW:
1. As mentioned in the article cited in the OP, "Drug Recognition Experts" are notoriously unreliable. The "science" (if you can even call it that) is WAY too subjective, and a good defense attorney can tear them to pieces on the stand.
2. There are a couple of serious problems with using THC levels as an indicator of impairment. First, THC lasts in the system far longer than alcohol, so you can see high levels long after the effects have worn off. Second, although it's well known that people can build up a certain amount of tolerance to alcohol, MJ tends to have an even less performative effect on chronic users, who can have large amounts of THC built up in their system and, even when high, develop entire skill sets to compensate for it.
3. Studies have shown that the most dangerous situation, when it comes to MJ users, is when it is combined with alcohol use - probably because alcohol impairment wrecks exactly those things that chronic MJ users rely upon to compensate.
So according to law if you have less than .08 in your blood you are not impaired. But according to you if you even have a trace of THC in your system you must be impaired? Hmmmm....
Yes. I do not want dope heads on the road with my family members.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
You do realize that traces of marijuana can stay in your system for up to 30 days which is long after you are no longer feeling any effects of it, right? I suppose reality doesn't matter to you though....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Sorry Day of, I appreciate your POV but pit is right in this case. TCH stays in your system fir a long time.
I’m the kind of guy that will have a few beers occasionally *ahem* but I don’t drink and drive. I also may partake in what you call pot smoking, on an occasional *ahem* basis, but I don’t smoke and drive. I like being in my happy place, which is my man cave, when I do that sort of thing.
Impairment from weed is the lesser of two evils when compared to drunk driving. But it’s still impairment, because smokers get lost in thought, which is bad when you’re approaching an intersection where the light might be green or red. Who knows? You’ve got the radio on and Pink Floyd is playing.
But as broncofan3 more or less stated, when you’ve had a couple beer and then you smoke, it gets you drunker and much more stupid. It’s like 2 times 2 equals 6.
I don’t think I’ve added much to this topic today but I enjoy the discourse.
Get the impaired off the road. If a trace of marijuana is found in your system. I do not want you on the roads with my family. Same as alcohol. If your impaired, you have no business on the roads.
and if somebody has THC in their system and is NOT IMPAIRED you don't want them to be able to drive either. NICE..... lets ban long haired folks from driving as well, their hair might distract their vision and I'm sure you don't want them on the road with your family either. Right?
"And the sign said Long-haired freaky people Need not apply So I tucked my hair up under my hat And I went in to ask him why He said, 'You look like a fine upstandin' young man I think you'll do' So I took off my hat and said, 'Imagine that Huh, me workin' for you' Whoa
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Get the impaired off the road. If a trace of marijuana is found in your system. I do not want you on the roads with my family. Same as alcohol. If your impaired, you have no business on the roads.
and if somebody has THC in their system and is NOT IMPAIRED you don't want them to be able to drive either. NICE..... lets ban long haired folks from driving as well, their hair might distract their vision and I'm sure you don't want them on the road with your family either. Right?
No issue with long hair. Just do not want pot heads on the road!
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
I want to try the marijuana that is grown with no THC, but can't seem to find it here. It is supposed to have the pain relief effect without the high.
I did find "Charlotte's Web", which has almost no THC. Maybe I'll try those.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
So according to law if you have less than .08 in your blood you are not impaired. But according to you if you even have a trace of THC in your system you must be impaired? Hmmmm....
Yes. I do not want dope heads on the road with my family members.
"Dope heads". This is just a dumb take. Obviously you have something against MJ users that crosses into the absurd. Pit's tried to explain it several times, so I won't bother.
If you filled the roads with "pot heads" and removed drinkers and texters, I'd bet accidents would go down by 75%.
I want to try the marijuana that is grown with no THC, but can't seem to find it here. It is supposed to have the pain relief effect without the high.
I did find "Charlotte's Web", which has almost no THC. Maybe I'll try those.
"The marijuana that's grown without THC" just means strains that are super-high in CBD. A very famous one is AC/DC. I've bought it a few times when I make my own edibles as I like a high CBD content to promote the entourage effect.
Unfortunately, all this legalization has lead to a race to stupid as dispensaries and growers have made the flower and products higher and higher in THC content. I just checked a few places in MI and don't see anything high in CBD on their menus -- and these are some high volume places. It's a shame.
With all that said, Y-Town, you're just really looking for some high quality CBD. I'm always hesitant to post direct retail links here, but google "social cbd". I've been buying from them for over a decade and they are top-shelf without the premium of a Charlottes Web. I've used their gummies, tinctures and creams. I know you've had some issues that would really benefit from their creams and balms. They infuse high concentrates of broad spectrum CBD with menthol, arnica and aloe.
I've had a few years experience as a DUI lawyer in Colorado, which was the first state to legalize recreational MJ. My opinions, FWIW:
1. As mentioned in the article cited in the OP, "Drug Recognition Experts" are notoriously unreliable. The "science" (if you can even call it that) is WAY too subjective, and a good defense attorney can tear them to pieces on the stand.
2. There are a couple of serious problems with using THC levels as an indicator of impairment. First, THC lasts in the system far longer than alcohol, so you can see high levels long after the effects have worn off. Second, although it's well known that people can build up a certain amount of tolerance to alcohol, MJ tends to have an even less performative effect on chronic users, who can have large amounts of THC built up in their system and, even when high, develop entire skill sets to compensate for it.
3. Studies have shown that the most dangerous situation, when it comes to MJ users, is when it is combined with alcohol use - probably because alcohol impairment wrecks exactly those things that chronic MJ users rely upon to compensate.
Good stuff, and welcome!
Good to see my suspicions validated. I've wondered how the heck anyone can get a conviction when THC threshold does absolutely nothing to establish timeframe... I mean, as long as a good attorney is arguing.
It has been an unconfirmed rumor for a few years -- a possible breathalyzer type test that would establish whether the person has indulged within the previous "x" hours. There have been a few (allegedly) on the horizon and going through testing. Have you heard anything on this front? What's the future of enforcement now that legal consumption has basically reached critical mass?
I bought some Charlotte's Web from GMC. We'll see how that does.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Get the impaired off the road. If a trace of marijuana is found in your system. I do not want you on the roads with my family. Same as alcohol. If your impaired, you have no business on the roads.
and if somebody has THC in their system and is NOT IMPAIRED you don't want them to be able to drive either. NICE..... lets ban long haired folks from driving as well, their hair might distract their vision and I'm sure you don't want them on the road with your family either. Right?
No issue with long hair. Just do not want pot heads on the road!
I agree that pot stays in the system far longer. People fail work pre-employment drug tests all the time without being high.
It's a sticky subject. We have to find a balance. You need to get high drivers off the road but you don't want to fail people who smoked a joint a week ago.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Just another reason for the Feds to change the schedule of the drug, so people way smarter than me can develop a test that really works as soon as possible.
It seems as though it's been set up in a way I've described other things in our justice system. If you can afford a good lawyer to fight it you can win. If not you become the victim of an unfair and ridiculous law. Or as I call it, the Just Us system.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Pretty much spot on. And we've incarcerating minorities for decades with an attitude of zero tolerance. Blacks are arrested for simple possession at a 4x higher clip even though usage rates are basically the same across all groups.
Just another reason for the Feds to change the schedule of the drug, so people way smarter than me can develop a test that really works as soon as possible.
Change it to what? Make it legal to drive while smoking pot or change to just take people to jail for possession?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Earlier this year, the DEA responded to President Biden’s directive to reschedule cannabis from Schedule I to Schedule III of the Controlled Substances Act. This pivotal change, if finalized, would reclassify marijuana as a drug with moderate to low potential for dependence, strictly for medical use.
Just another reason for the Feds to change the schedule of the drug, so people way smarter than me can develop a test that really works as soon as possible.
Change it to what? Make it legal to drive while smoking pot or change to just take people to jail for possession?
Nope. Change it from Schedule I because everyone on the planet knows that it has certain medical value. Being on schedule I prevents any studies to actually prove otherwise. Dumb. It's not heroin or meth, and hell, even cocaine is Schedule II.
Just another reason for the Feds to change the schedule of the drug, so people way smarter than me can develop a test that really works as soon as possible.
Just toss a twinkie out when you suspect someone being high on pot. If they grab it....
Earlier this year, the DEA responded to President Biden’s directive to reschedule cannabis from Schedule I to Schedule III of the Controlled Substances Act. This pivotal change, if finalized, would reclassify marijuana as a drug with moderate to low potential for dependence, strictly for medical use.
Get the impaired off the road. If a trace of marijuana is found in your system. I do not want you on the roads with my family. Same as alcohol. If your impaired, you have no business on the roads.
and if somebody has THC in their system and is NOT IMPAIRED you don't want them to be able to drive either. NICE..... lets ban long haired folks from driving as well, their hair might distract their vision and I'm sure you don't want them on the road with your family either. Right?
No issue with long hair. Just do not want pot heads on the road!
So now I'm a pot head lol
I drink tea made with THCA diamonds. Pure THCA that converts to THC when activated by heat. With my tolerance I consume about 250-400 mg onn an average day. My blood would put a non-user down for the count and I wouldn’t even need to be high. I rarely feel “high” anymore. Just relieved. And less pain is all I’m after.
And I’m a person that hates to be stoned in public or to drive when stoned. Yet I drive quite a bit with THC in my system, but me not feeling the effects. I’d say every time I drive, if thc blood levels were the test, I’d be illegal. Yet I drive just fine and function just fine.
AND I don’t drive when feeling the effects or feeling high. If I feel I could be a risk, I don’t drive period.
Well, I have been taking this hemp for a few days now and there is a modest, but noticable, improvement in my back pain.
Hopefully it continues.
I do have to add that I did wipe out on the snow and ice yesterday, and banged up my foot pretty good. It is all bruised up. I am sure that I also did my back no good either.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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