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Quote:
I think that would be ideal if Wilson can actually get himself on the field.
As old Will Shakespeare (or one of those old guys) said...."Aye, there's the rub..... 
What is the deal with Wilson anyways? Is he really taking this long to develop into a NFL receiver? Is Tim carter that much of a better option vs starting the young guy?
Just don't hear much about what is going on.
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
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Quote:
Number 2's are not possession-types
I agree. We need someone to compliment Edwards...a guy with similar skills....JJ isn't that guy.
Signing a legit receiver with deep speed should be a top priority this off season.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Man, I hope Wilson can do something. I know Savage expected him to contribute or he wouldn't have taken him. I also know that it may have been harder for him to crack the roster with JJ, BE and K2 all playing so well. But crap! He's gotta be in the mix somewhere. 
#gmstrong
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For whatever reason, he hasn't, and for some reason I get the feeling we don't think he ever will. His problems my be with playbooks or something....something that may have been harder to scout rather then the physical part. Carter is a guy with speed, but he doesn't seem to have "it" either.
Rather than wait for one of those guys to develop.....if they ever do, we might be thinking of getting someone we know can....I think Bernard Barrian of the Bears is a guy we might look at.
The Bears might become our developmental squad this year if we go after him and Briggs.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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A wide receiver isn't a top priority. What should be is to find what Bill Walsh said, "A pass rush late in the game is the key to winning in the NFL.''
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Quote:
Quote:
Number 2's are not possession-types
I agree. We need someone to compliment Edwards...a guy with similar skills....JJ isn't that guy.
Signing a legit receiver with deep speed should be a top priority this off season.
Enter Bernard Berrian... 
Wilson now becomes a 3 option with Jurevicious...
Go Browns!!!
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I said the same thing a few posts up....I think he would be a fine addition to the O.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Not just no but, HELL NO on Johnson. 
Took the words right out of my mouth.
Johnson's antics have no place on a Browns team. He can't back up his mouth as
well as he has in the past. TJ, IMHO, is far better than Chad.
I don't know that much about Walker but from reading this thread he seems to be
in the same catagory as Johnson. But, then, TO bounced from team to team until
landing in Dallas and finally settled down a bit.
Groza76
Go Browns, WIN or lose, forever!
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No to Chad
No to Walker
Why would either be happy in Cleveland. Both want to be the guy. Not going to happen here with Edwards and Winslow.
And finding a widereceiver better be a priority this year-- Joe has said one more year. He will leave a need, and i would rather have someone on the roster that knows the offense ready to take his spot.
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Although good players both are individuals that care nothing about the TEAM!
I hope Phil just says no to both.
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Would we want either of these guys ?
Nope, nichts, uh-uh!! 
[color:"green"] Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.[/color]
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Quote:
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We could use a solid number two possession type receiver to replace JJ when he retires--but IMO neither Walker or Johnson would be willing to fill this role.
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Number 2's are not possession-types. For a #2 you want a player who is just below the ability to be a #1. That way he costs less but is otherwise an excellant receiver. Before BE, all we had here were #2's.
JJ is more of a #3 slot/possession receiver playing as a #2 because we don't have a #2. You want your #2 to be at least somewhat of a threat deep downfield and JJ no longer has the speed for that.
But Chad Johnson is a #1. Braylon Edwards is a #1 and you really don't need two #1's. For one, they cost too much and for two, a #1 will get the majority of the passes and two players can't get the majority of the passes.
It would wreck whole the space/time continuum thing.
What would be ideal is BE at the #1, Travis Wilson at the #2, and JJ at #3 until he leaves and then Josh Cribbs at #3. That way we have everything we need without spending another dime or draft pick.
I think that would be ideal if Wilson can actually get himself on the field.
Lets take the show boating out of this for a second. some love it some don't. lets look at the other top reason for "NO" Many here like the above quoted post state you can't have two # 1 WR's. I ask why not?
look at first and formost the Colts. Harrison and Wayne. Wayne played like a 1 this season while Marvin was out and I believe he would be on many teams.
Greatest show on Turn, Isaac Bruce & Torry Holt. Sure Holt is the guy these days, but in there prime they were both legit #1's.
Patriots- Moss, Stallworth ( Stallworth was McNabbs #1 last season)
Bengals - Chad, TJ
Dolphins once had Chambers & Booker
Steelers - Burress/ Ward & Ward/Holmes
Cardinals - Fitsgerald & Bolden
LIons - pick a year and a pair from the last 4 or 5
Panthers Last year ( i think) Mohammed - Smith
49rs classic ( Rice/Owens)
Steelers Classic ( Swan/Stallworth )
Cowboys classic (Irvin/Harper)
but forget it, you can't have two # 1's at WR 
just like you can't have two startng running backs 
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Some people (not RocDawg, just clicked) here say Chad Johnson is washed up and worthless. Some people here say the same thing about Jason Taylor. You have to wonder what some people are drinking on here. It's possible to say a player wouldn't fit in Cleveland without misrepresenting their abilities.
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I'd say no to both, hard to, but I would. Walker, like everyone mentioned, is just going to want to be traded again in a couple years, skip that. I like Johnson, I like his "showboating", if you don't want him to celebrate, don't let him in the end-zone, period. However, we have much needed other places to be spending our money, esspecially the amount those 2 are going to want. We can find a decent WR option in free agency elsewhere that can be plugged into the #2 slot and be able to probably perform well enough for us to stay successful. Bernard Berrian has done decent WITHOUT a legit QB throwing him the ball, hook him up with someone that at least has a clue what they're doing, and maybe we got something here... 2 others to look at, Patrick Crayton, if he doesn't stay with DAL, although, he probably will. Then there is Bryant Johnson out of Arizona, he wouldn't make a bad #2... He would probably be productive at a minimum price because of how much he stays under the radar, yet plays a decently consistant game. It's hard to be noticed on an offense with names like Boldin, Fitzgerald, Edge, and little Matty L all around you.
Just a random thought.
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Quote:
Many here like the above quoted post state you can't have two # 1 WR's. I ask why not?
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but forget it, you can't have two # 1's at WR
You copied my entire post just to argue a point over a statement I never made.
What I said was, and you can go back to yours or my post and check it word for word...
But Chad Johnson is a #1. Braylon Edwards is a #1 and you really don't need two #1's.
You see, I didn't say "can't have", I said "don't need". There might be a difference in the two statements.
I went on to say...
For one, they cost too much and for two, a #1 will get the majority of the passes and two players can't get the majority of the passes.
It would wreck whole the space/time continuum thing.
So I made a funny. But before that I said they would cost too much. Do you think the Browns want to pick up the expense that an established #1, like Chad Johnson for instance, would want just to add him to the payroll that includes the expense that BE is already getting?
Probably not.
Why? Because you don't need two #1's.
If you are fortunate enough to end up with two WR's who have that talent of a #1 than that is great. But to go out and buy a #1 when you already have one? It just doesn't make good sense.
To get a guy like Moss for the price NE did, great. But to buy him as a FA at the top of his game when you already have an expensive #1 on the roster? Not bloody likely to happen.
Everyone would like to hit the jackpot and through a windfall end up with two #1's. Heck, you need all the talent you can get. But to buy two? It would take Matt Millan to pull a stunt like that.
Spend your money on what you need and pick up a #2 who compliments your #1 and you're set.
At least that's my opinon.
I've already heard yours.
#gmstrong
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I didn't think anyone could tame Moss either. 
Nobody tamed Moss, he's in a situation where all of HIS needs are being met.As soon as the Patriot dynasty starts to crumble he'll be the first crying discontent.
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By the way.... What's up with our Oklahoma drafted players: Perkins: Working at Perkins Wilson: Frying pans for hands Pool: Athleticism off the charts.  Recognition off the charts. Can Savage please overlook Norman this year?
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At least that's my opinon.
I've already heard yours.
ddubia,
actually, the only opinion I gave was a solid, you "can" have two number 1 WR's. I actully aree with much of your last post. I conceed that it may have appeared that i was picking on you, when if fact, after reading the entire thread I came away with the feel that many postered had said you could not have two # 1's. but the last several posts prior were not them, so I lazily went to back to, at least reply to a post that was related. Was your's the best choice? After your recap, obviously not, but it was one that stuck in my head and when i quick scanned, I felt good that it had touched on that vibe. Take it as a compliment that your post stuck with with me
I was looking to shake free a view point related to the position, but to clarify, I completely agree with the view that our free agent money would be BEST spent on a studly D'linemen. ( hit another homer phil )
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Take it as a compliment that your post stuck with with me
o...k
I was a bit on the touchy side over nothing. I apologize.
I did enjoy the history lesson in your post and neglected to mention that. I'd forgotten about some of those tandems you mentioned. Maybe Travis Wilson will explode on the scene and gain us another #1. 
#gmstrong
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no sweat ddubia, I've been reading this and the old board for enough years to know that if you don't articulate your point properly or rush through before work  , your probably going to get pounced on or burned. Thats just how most boards are. Man I hope your right on Wilson, but I'm not holding my breath. I did not know anthing about him prior to the selection of him, just that he may have fallen under the rador for a senior year injury or something. I was hoping for a sleeper of maybe Vincent Jackson's quality. i would be totally happy with that and then some. I still think Phil will bring in a vet. I doubt he resigns Tim, and we are an injury away from relying on a question mark Wilson or Cribbs whom if he isn't being thrown passes with his game breaking open field ability, just isn't ready. I love the idea of Bernard that someone else posted. I had not thought of him. I think many free agent recievers may want to visit us this offseason. either way our QB situation goes they'll have a quality guy throwing them the ball for the length of any contract they may sign.
"He who buys what he does not need steals from himself."
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Chad Johnson said on ESPN's Mike and Mike show Friday that he feels he was mistreated by the Bengals' organization last season. "I was labeled selfish and a cancer, and it hurt," he said. "Fingers were pointed at me this year. If the team and the organization wants to further itself, I think you need to get rid of the problem. It hurt me. To do me that way and not to have my back. Things were said, and nobody came to my defense." That's pretty close to a trade demand. The situation between Johnson and the Bengals is set up to get ugly this offseason. Jan. 11 - 4:58 pm et Source: Cincinnati Enquirer http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=111342
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He's a helluva talent, but I'm not sure I would want his personality in our locker room.... it'd be mighty nice to see him outta the AFC North though
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Man, I hope Wilson can do something.
I know Savage expected him to contribute or he wouldn't have taken him. I also know that it may have been harder for him to crack the roster with JJ, BE and K2 all playing so well. But crap! He's gotta be in the mix somewhere.
It's all about attitude and work ethic w/this kid. He has too much of one and not enough of the other. You figure out how they match up.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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It's all about attitude and work ethic w/this kid. He has too much of one and not enough of the other. You figure out how they match up.
that's what I was afraid of. why wouldn't you want to work hard to start when your O has a great pass blocking OL, good QB situation (no DA/BQ debate pleeeeease ), good RB, and 2 receivers that need double teams. it's a great situation for him to grow in.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Well, he buried himself during the camps the last two years. Perhaps he didn't know all those pieces were going to be so good. *L*
But hey homer........look at the comments made by a player on our D about TG. Some of these guys are arrogant jerks. There are great guys like Hank, Tuck, Willie, Kam, AD, both Joes, etc.........but some of these players have let the pampering and preferential treatment mess them up.
All I know is that Wilson better turn it around real quick, or he's gone.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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You know what, I would take Chad in a heart beat.. We dont have really another weapon of his statuer, and we already know he has a place in his heart for the DawgPound..
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I would enjoy seeing CJ in practice everyday against "LeHigh Bodden"! LOL
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
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another article on CJ wanting out via the aol main page
Chad Johnson Feels Sorry for Himself, Wants Out of Cincinnati
Posted Jan 11th 2008 5:10PM by Ryan Wilson
It was fun while it lasted. Chad Johnson spent seven years in Cincinnati, racked up 559 receptions for 8,365 yards, and hauled in 49 touchdown passes. But now it's time to move on, at least according to Chad. Ocho Cinco was on ESPN radio's Mike & Mike this morning and made it pretty clear that his future isn't with the Bengals.
Via the Cincinnati Enquirer's Mark Curnutte:
"I was labeled selfish and a cancer, and it hurt," he said. "Fingers were pointed at me this year. If the team and the organization wants to further itself (make the playoffs), I think you need to get rid of the problem.
"It hurt me. To do me that way and not to have my back. Things were said, and nobody came to my defense."
I will say this: Johnson wears his emotions on his sleeve. I'm not talking about the choreographed post-score shimmies, or the fancy game-day gold fronts, but that you got the sense that he genuinely wanted people to like him. And what better way to do that than by putting up huge numbers?
Johnson's as affable as they come, but he can also be brusque when pushed (see this October interview with Keyshawn Johnson for such an example). And 2007 was proof.
As I wrote three months ago, it's kind of disingenuous to call Chad the problem in Cincinnati just because the team had a down season. I mean, he finished the year with 93 catches, 1,440 yards, and eight touchdowns. That fans who once looked forward to his touchdown celebrations suddenly found them selfish and overused smacked of misguided frustrations with the team's failings. Johnson was the same guy he'd always been.
Who knows how this ends up, but I can't imagine the Bengals will be a better team without Ocho Cinco.
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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j/c With the way this team has been about truly acting as a "team", and with the great decline in face-time in the press this past season, I don't see us going for a guy like Johnson. Maybe trade him to someone out west in the NFC so we rarely face him. I like that idea.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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suddenly found them selfish and overused smacked of misguided frustrations with the team's failings
This was his downfall. IMO It makes No Sense to be celebrating "When Your Team is Losing"! Go Brownies!!!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
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Lewis says Bengals won't trade Johnson, believes he will 'be a pro' ESPN.com news services Updated: January 17, 2008, 10:10 AM ET Comment Email Print The Cincinnati Bengals introduced Mike Zimmer as their newest defensive coordinator Wednesday, but just as noteworthy was coach Marvin Lewis reiterating that the team had no intention of trading mercurial wide receiver Chad Johnson. Johnson Johnson expressed unhappiness with the Bengals' front office during his appearance last Friday on ESPN's "Mike & Mike in the Morning," saying "not too many people really having my back within." He intimated that if he were considered a distraction and the reason for the Bengals' disappointing season, the organization should trade him. "The only thing for me to do or say now is, if you guys, as a team and organization, want to further yourself in the playoffs, I think you need to get rid of what the problem was during the season," Johnson said on the radio program. Lewis, addressing those remarks on Wednesday, said, "He didn't say anything different -- that he was unduly chastised for being this or that. He's going to go back and be a pro and go forward and play. As I said then, there will be no trade of Chad Johnson. Repeat it again." Lewis' daughter had notified him of Johnson's appearance on radio, and Lewis was not surprised by everything Johnson brought up. Asked about Johnson's attitude, Lewis said, "I can't control that. That doesn't mean anything to me right now. He's a special player and he's a Cincinnati Bengal for quite a while." Johnson, who finished with a single-season franchise-record 1,440 receiving yards, has had six consecutive seasons with at least 1,000 receiving yards. He is under contract with the Bengals through 2011 after signing a $35.5 million extension in April 2006. Information from the Associated Press was used in this report. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3200777
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
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Chad in a Browns Uni?
If he leaves cincy he could become next year's Randy Moss. Model citizen who catches balls at an alarming rate. I'd take him in a heartbeat if RAC could knock the idiocy out of him.
Exactly, there weren't that many teams willing to trade for Moss last offseason.....and he only went on to break the single season TD record while becoming a team guy. I know, I know, Moss is a product of a winning system with a great QB and if he were to have been traded to Buffalo for instance, he'd sulk and become a malcontent again. But on the right team, with the right coach......most any flashy punk will tow the company line.
Same thing with Chad Johnson. If he's on a winning team that has an explosive offense, you can bet he'll "behave". There's no way we can turn away talent like his.......Well, it doens't matter. Cincy would NEVER, EVER, EVER trade him to us anyway. They wouldn't want to see him twice a year.
Point being, he's only "Ocho Cinco" because his coach and the players let him get away with junk like that. A team like the Pats would sit him down and say, "You are not above any of us, you'll be paid just like you will on any other team, but get in line, shut your mouth, act right.....and stockpile the wins." And he would. As long as he's getting paid and getting stats...most anyone will turn their own volumne down (except TO).
As far as Javon Walker......blah.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Asked about Johnson's attitude, Lewis said, "I can't control that.
Right there's your problem.
It's Lewis' job to control that. It's his job to teach Chad how to be a team player.
Did anyone hear RAC say he can't control BE's attitude? He never said he could, but he and the staff must have gotten through to him because he's night and day different than last season. Somebody told him what a pro is and let him know he hasn't been acting like one.
I can't believe a coach who admits he can't control players professional attitudes took the chance on so many thugs who desparately needed someone to take control.
#gmstrong
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Hehehe........Lewis can't control Johnson because, as they say...."You can't close the barn door after the horse allready got out."
Lewis had the chance to mold Johnson earlier in his career, but allowed him to develop these bad habits and attitude problems. It's too late to undo that damage.
As far as acquiring either guy, no thanks.....an EMPHATIC no thanks.
Johnson hides behind the entertainment-banner when doing the things he does, but there are just too many negative stories that say he's not a team guy.
As for Walker....he doesn't have quite the baggage that Johnson has, but he's trying to force his way out his second organization now, and as if that isn't enough, he's coming off a 2nd blown knee.
Frankly, we don't need another teams problematic "#1 receiver" coming here. What we need is someone to step in for Joe when he hangs'em up. Keep in mind that Winslow is a TE in name only. He's our #2 receiver, just the way Gates is the Chargers #2 receiver. We aren't so desperate at the WR position that we have to throw the dice on guys like Johnson and Walker.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
We aren't so desperate at the WR position that we have to throw the dice on guys like Johnson and Walker.
agreed... and "possession receivers" are a bit easier (and cheaper) to acquire than "franchise WR's"
Better to save the money AND the potential headaches... headaches we don't currently have to deal with.
.02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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BE and CJ.?..Can you say Nitro and Glycerine? And not in a good way either.
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The only free agent wr that the Browns should be interested in, other than former Cleveland Brown players is Randy Moss.
Randy Moss is the only free agent the Browns should try to sign. The question is if the team wants to be the best in the world or not?
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605
All Pro
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All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 605 |
didn't see this posted anywhere yet, but could make people look at bringing in another top reciever differentley. Quote:
Browns report: Inside slant Jan. 28, 2008
The Sports Xchange
Inside slant · Strategy and personnel · Notes, quotes
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The Browns, already thin at wide receiver, have indirectly been given fair warning by one of their starters to start planning ahead for 2009.
Joe Jurevicius plans to return to the Browns for one more season and then go off into retirement as a player who has enjoyed a long and successful career. Jurevicius, born and raised in the Cleveland area, has played 10 seasons in the NFL, the last two with the Browns.
Jurevicius signed a four-year contract in March of 2006 to play for his hometown Browns after playing with the Giants, Buccaneers and Seahawks over a span of eight years. He said had 2007 been a repeat of 2006 when the Browns finished 4-12 he might have retired after 2007. Instead, he is hungry for one more year after the Browns finished with a 10-6 record and missed the playoffs by losing a tiebreaker to the Titans.
"I'm going to give this thing one more go-around and then I'll probably hang 'em up," Jurevicius said. "I want to be a Cleveland Brown one more year. I want to get a taste of what I know we can get.
"If we were 4-12 again, we might be having a different conversation. But I know this team is headed in the right direction. Everybody is focused and going straight. I can sit here today with a smile because we did things the right way. When things are done the right way, it pays big dividends.
"Ultimately our goal of going to the playoffs didn't materialize, but everybody has a good taste in their mouths. I really do believe winning breeds winning. I think that's what Cleveland is going to get used to."
When Jurevicius signed his contract almost two years ago he said this would be his last stop. He reiterated that in announcing his pending retirement. Jurevicius made three Super Bowl appearances with three different teams before returning home, winning once with the Buccaneers. He doesn't plan to go anywhere else.
Jurevicius caught 50 passes for 614 yards and three touchdowns. He caught 29 passes on third down and ranked near the top in the league in that category.
The dilemma facing the Browns is after Jurevicius and Pro Bowl-bound Braylon Edwards the cupboard is bare at wide receiver. The Browns were fortunate to get 16 games from each starter in 2007. Between 2000 and 2006 the only time Jurevicius played in all 16 games was in 2005 when he was with Seattle.
The players behind Jurevicius and Edwards are Tim Carter, Joshua Cribbs and Travis Wilson. Carter has had difficulty earning playing time throughout his career with the Giants and Browns, Cribbs is so valuable on special teams the Browns are reluctant to use him regularly from scrimmage and Wilson was inactive every game in 2007. He is regarded as a poor practice player.
Jurevicius emerged as a leader among the receivers. He was the same experienced player in 2006, but that season was so chaotic with changing offensive coordinators in mid-season that nobody listened to anybody.
There is a slight chance Jurevicius could have a change of heart and play in 2009, but as they prepare for free agency and the draft the Browns should plan as though the 2008 season will be his last.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,671
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,671 |
"...Wilson was inactive every game in 2007. He is regarded as a poor practice player."
How often does an inactive player- due to being a poor practice player- see the light and becomes a productive gamer???? Not often-cut your losses.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Javon Walker or Chad Johnson ? May be available...
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