DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Stefanski and Berry

100%

Funny that the Browns felt the need to have a top 5 QB to get to the Super Bowl yet the one they dumped is actually the top 5 QB that they dumped 3 years earlier. For this reason and reason alone, Berry and Stefanski should both be dumped for their inability to recognize real talent. The trend has continued though with the OL, LB, RB, WR and DT. Not firing them now is just delaying the inevitable, they will find a way to screw up next season.


Rk__ Player________ G___GS__ QBrec____Cmp_Att__Cmp%_Yds___TD__TD%__Int__ Int% Rate____QBR__ Sk__ Yds__Sk% GWD Awards Super Bowl
1___ Joe Burrow____17__ 17___ 9-8-0___ 460_ 652_ 70.6___4918__43__6.6____9__ 1.4_ 108.5___75.0__48___278_6.86___2___PB____ Yes
2___ Jared Goff_____17__ 17__ 15-2-0___ 390_ 539_ 72.4___4629__37__6.9___12__ 2.2_ 111.8___68.5__31___234_5.44___4___PB____ Yes
3___ Baker Mayfield_ 17___17__10-7-0___ 407_570_ 71.4___4500__41__7.2___16__ 2.8_ 106.8___61.8__40___248_6.56___2__________No
4___ Geno Smith____17__ 17__10-7-0___ 407_ 578_ 70.4___4320__21__3.6___15__ 2.6___93.2___53.8__50___338_7.96___4__________No
5___ Sam Darnold___17__ 17__ 14-3-0___ 361_ 545_ 66.2___4319__35__6.4___12__ 2.2__102.5___60.6__48___335_8.09___5___PB_____No
6___ Lamar Jackson_ 17__ 17__ 12-5-0___ 316_ 474_ 66.7___4172__41__8.6____4__ 0.8__119.6___77.5__23___149_4.63___2___PB_____No
7___ Pat Mahomes__ 16__ 16__ 15-1-0___ 392_ 581_ 67.5___3928__26__4.5___11__ 1.9___93.5___67.9__36___239_5.83___7_________ Yes
8___ Aaron Rodgers_ 17__ 17__ 5-12-0___ 368_ 584_ 63.0___3897__28__4.8___11__ 1.9___90.5___48.2__40___302_6.41___3_________ Yes
9___ Justin Herbert__17__ 17__ 11-6-0___ 332_ 504_ 65.9___3870__23__4.6____3__ 0.6__101.7___65.3__41___244_7.52___2__________No
10__ Brock Purdy___ 15__ 15___ 6-9-0___ 300_ 455_ 65.9___3864__20__4.4___12__ 2.6___96.1___68.0__31___156_6.38___1_________ Yes

26__ Jameis Winston_12___ 7___2-5-0____181_296_ 61.1__ 2121__ 13__4.4___12__ 4.1___80.6___56.4__24___130_7.50___2__________No
39__ Deshaun Watson_7___ 7___1-6-0____137_216_ 63.4__ 1148___ 5__2.3____3__ 1.4___79.0___23.1__33___191_13.25__0__________No
48__ DTR___________7___ 2___0-2-0_____61_118_ 51.7___ 440___ 0__0.0____6__ 5.1___39.5___19.4___8____47__6.35__0__________No
63__ Bailey Zappe____1___ 1___0-1-0_____16__31_ 51.6___ 170___ 1__3.2____2__ 6.5___51.8___19.6___1_____5__3.13__0__________No

Interesting to note that those perceived top 10 QB's not on this list nor having been to a Super Bowl include: (11) Murray ARI, (14) Allen BUF, (15) Stroud HOU, (18) Cousins ATL, (19) Love GBP, and (21) Tua. Now, we have people campaigning for Cousins and Darnold who actually have performed worse than Mayfield. Shame we had so much negativity with Mayfield, the Browns already had a top 5 QB and booted him out of Cleveland.

But hey, let's keep Stefanski and Berry. Afterall, they can't do worse than 3-14, can they?

Where did this list come from, and how were the rankings determined? Baker has the most interceptions and the highest interception rate on that list (not including the Browns at the bottom of course).

Looks like it's pulled from NFL.com and that it is sorted top to bottom by Passing Yards.

That's my best guess.

https://www.nfl.com/stats/player-stats/category/passing/2024/REG/all/passingyards/desc

Those receipts are brutal… just saying.

Funny that several of us openly hated this trade and the entire debacle from day one and remained vocal for the duration. BUT I for one am glad Leadtheway has now evolved. People change their minds. Meh.

I don’t want to bust anyone’s chops over DW. He tricked many. I still have never seen ‘good’ DW play. So, my eye test was screaming oh no from the first play time he got here. We were obviously duped. But even I gave him props and tried to have hope at points, we’re all guilty of that flip flopping.

As much of a Baker fanboy as I was - and still am for what he did here - total passing yards isn't what you grade a top QB on. And you're smart enough to know that - that's a troll post.

The stats for the other areas are posted. I am not saying that Mayfield is flawless because he certainly isn't. However, when you compare what he has done since he left the Browns compared to what the Browns paid 230M for, that's the purpose of the post. It is also interesting that people are posting that the Browns should get Darnold or Cousins. This is basically Darnold's first year of success and Cousins fell off a cliff this year. Only the Browns and fans would even consider that drama for 2025 after what we have experienced in this last failed experiment.

As far as Stefanski and Berry go, let me ask this question. Dual threat gunslinging QB's are becoming more prevalent in the NFL. Jackson, Williams, Nix, Mahomes, Allen, Murray, Daniels, Hurts and Love just to mention a few. Stefanski's offense is anti-dual threat gunslinger, and I think he's proven that the last 5-years. The top-rated QB's coming out are dual threat. Why in the world the Browns want to keep a HC and GM that can't coach or find a dual threat gunslinging QB? Tried to change Mayfield - didn't work. Tried to change Watson - hasn't worked. Trying to change DTR - not so good thus far. 5-years in and the Browns have had a losing record over that time period, no closer to a franchise QB than before we drafted Mayfield, huge questions at RB and WR, and an offensive line that's crumbling due to age and poor draft picks. Ha, that's only the offense issues.

To me, the proof is in the pudding and Stefanski and Berry need to go. Obviously, that's not going to happen at this time, but I can wait because it will be sooner than later that they get bounced. Just keep kicking that can down the road boys.

People are pushing for Darnold/Cousins as a BRIDGE QB. Our inevitable FA QB that we get this off-season will have to be a 1-2 year commitment AT MOST.

I feel like the only way we could get Darnold is if McCown comes over with him. Even so, Darnold will be demanding some cash after this season's performance. Don't know if we can afford that given the lead weight tied to our ankles.

Is Cousins "releasable" with the way his contract is structured in ATL?

As long as the salary cap does not go down like it did during the covid year the Browns are fine and can afford another QB. If another pandemic happens and the salary cap goes down/ Players will have to get cut. As long as Haslam is willing to shell out the $ and the salary cap goes up each year the team will be fine. They won't be able to go crazy and sign other players to 20 mill contracts, but they can sign a QB.

From what I have read Atlanta is postering that they would be content to have Cousin's back as a backup. That won't happen. They won't keep a 30 mill a year backup QB. They are just hoping someone will make a trade and take the $ off their hands instead of cutting Cousins.

Now all you need to do is show us where Stefanski is in charge of personnel. You keep lumping him into the watson deal when he didn't make the trip to talk to watson, didn't make the return trip once watson said no to the Browns, didn't back up the Brinks truck for watson, didn't write, sign or negotiate the contract nor sign the checks.

Yet somehow you keep trying to make some vague, unsubstantiated connection there.

Who's accountable for the mess you site above? It can't be Haslam; he has no boss. I mean think about it, how many teams in the NFL are sitting with exactly zero options on their team right now for the 2025 season? I get that there are teams that want to upgrade and they'll do that through the draft and FA. The Browns option at this point is DTR - my lord, how does this happen!

Zappe is a FA, Winston is a FA, and Watson is who the hell knows. Really, the Browns FA's aren't even considered maybe options. How does a team get themselves into a situation like this?

By the way, the Browns having a consistent winning team would make me happy. Having a coach and GM with a 5-year losing record doesn't make me smile. But hey, let's drag out this [censored] show for another 9-10 months, that'll make the team better! Thier record shows that, LOL!

Like last season? Say what you want, but on one hand you talk about how terrible the QB room is, which is true. When was the last time we had a healthy QB that could produce for a full season? That was the season Baker led us to the playoffs. Who is responsible for keeping, signing or trading players? News flash, it isn't Stefanski.

So on one hand you admit that this FO has given Stefanski a QB room that has sucked, then on the other hand claim it's Stefanski that's part of the problem?

Your math doesn't add up.

Someone made an interesting analogy
The watson deal was like a nuclear launch
All 3 (Haslam/Berry/Stefanski) all had to insert their keys and turn

And I agree with the concept
If any of the 3 didn't buy into the trade, it would not have happened

I'm still trying to figure out how KS ruined him? How many games did Stefanski actually get to coach him? I mean, Three years and what, 15 or 16 games maybe?

Think about how stupid that statement alone is. How many QB's did KS coach last year.. I mean the year we had Flacco? Or the year before. KS isn't the problem.. Whats between Watsons ears is the problem..

Regarding your point it’s a double edged sword who’s responsible.

This’s why I asked before who we need most, an entrepreneur (Berry) or a managing director (Stefanski).
To be successful, or the opposite, to fail, they both have to make a good/bad job.

We drafted Baker who arguably is good enough to be considered a top 10 QB. We all have our own opinion about Mayfield but the fact remains.
Berry and Stefanski, by themselves or together, decided to walk away and trade for a new QB.

What we do know is that Berry and Stefanski was in one way or another partly responsible for the Watson trade. They presented our new QB at the infamous presser they he had at least some participation in this.

If some of you’re of the opinion that this’s totally the Haslam’s decision then you basically admit that both Berry and Stefanski aren’t enough competent/trusted to be part of such decision.

What does that tell us?

QFT. Well said.

For some reason you think Haslam and AB put far more stock into Stefanski's say so than I do. I feel petty confident they asked if he could work with watson. And considering the game film on watson I would say he felt he could. Of course at the same time he had no hand in interviewing watson, doing the investigation into the sexual allegations, deciding to go back and give him a second offer after he said he would not come to Cleveland nor investigate the why in concern to watson sitting on the sideline for an entire season before the trade.

Now if you're saying that Stefanski said he could work with watson was a part of the process then we would agree. But all he had to make that decision on was based on game film. Everything from that point on was AB and Haslam.

I mean watson flat out said he didn't want to play here. How much more than that did they need to know?


At that point trying to put any of this on Stefanski is something I simply won't do.

It tells us that somehow you have decided that Stefanski is a part of the FO rather than the HC. It is not the responsibility of an NFL HC to make personnel decisions in who to sign. Contracts, contract negotiations, analytics which help teams make such decisions and are no part of a HC's job.

Trust has nothing to do with it. Not being a part of his job does.

We here over and over and over again how Berry nd Stefanski work in lockstep
If they do then Stefanski holds some blame

If Stefanski wasn't in lockstep with the move, was he too weak to voice his opinion?
If so, then he is too weak to be a head coach - IMO

If KS was strongly against watson and voiced it and we made this move anyway?
Then we really have a dysfunctional front office

Do you think Stefanski saying he could work with watson based strictly on game film as being "in lockstep"?

Do you care that Stefanski has used the words "in lockstep" to describe the decision making process? How about "collaborative effort?" Or is that unimportant?

Yes

So you think they agree on every decision they make? There's never a dessenting voice in the crowd? Do you think the HC who has nothing to do with offering contracts or any of the other collaborative information with which to make such a decision other than game film has the input that the GM, the analytic department, the owner has?

No he doesn't. PR statements sound great. Walking the company line sounds great. But the reality is Stefanski had a very small fraction of the information others in the process had. All he had was game film to decide whether he felt he could work with the QB he was watching on film. It was up to the FO and the owner as to whether watson was still the QB Stefanski was watching on film. He obviously wasn't.

Got it. Stefanski didn't get the same QB he saw on film and that's his fault.

Not saying this is all his fault
Just saying that he is not blameless

And as to your reply to FrankZ
With a decision like this, any dissenting voice from any of the Big 3 would have torpedoed it

Stefanski also knew about Watsons conflict with the Texans, and the sexual allegations.

As a well educated father of three, a son to a professional coach, a husband and himself a professional head coach, isn’t his job to be aware of the huge risk it’s to invest in such unstable character?

Why couldn’t he used his judgment?

Why wasn’t he strong enough to raise doubts or at least make a better character assessment?

Many on this forum immediately had those concerns but two professional sports executives acted like dumb and dumber.
I mean come on now!

Bad decisions leads to bad results. Getting rid of those who made these mistakes will make the Browns a better team.

What’s happening now is that the same people who failed the last time is trying to cook the same old soup, with similar ingredients and still you hoping that something will change and the soup will taste better this time. Five years and counting… Not five months.

I did not say that. I just pointed out you ignore what is inconvenient in what Stefanski and Berry say, and then try to sell the idea you know what goes on the room.

Bad decisions is changing regimes over and over and over again. That is why the Browns have been so bad since 1999.

The problem was/is/will be that Kevin can work with Watson but It's Watson that's not working with Kevin.

Once again you seem to be confused about whose responsibility it is to do what. The FO are who investigated watson and signed off on him. The coach simply coaches the players the FO gives them. It was actually stated that the FO investigated the watson situation and were comfortable with it.

Stefanski had no part in having watson investigated nor reviewing that investigation. Stefanski wasn't in charge of signing off on it either. You keep creating scenarios claiming Stafanki should have been playing a part in things that were a part of his responsibility or job title.

I assume you are talking about Stefanski and Berry? If that is the case, You may have it wrong. I say MAY because I have no inside knowledge on the thing but, just my guess here, I bet it was Haslam that wanted and fought for Watson.. Again, just my guess..

I say this because dumping Mayfield and spending a boat load on Watson certainly looks like the dumbest move ever today. Many felt it was stupid when it happened (me included).

So, Most owners would say, "heads need to roll after this mess"! Yet Jimmy didn't fire KS or Berry! They survived. Almost like there was a deal in place where Kevin and Berry didn't want to make that move but Haslam did so they were exempted if it failed..

I know, a stretch but possible....