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j/c:
I didn't see it mentioned on sites that show contract details, but it doesn't look like Garrett has a no-trade clause. So, although Garrett might have the opinion that the probability is low to winning a title here, he could easily be traded to a team that could be in worse shape (in whatever term(s) one wants to define "worse") than the Browns. Name 2 The only team that I see b eing as big a cluster as us is the jets and we pick 4 places ahead of them
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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jc..
Obviously Myles Garrett isn't buying the direction the franchise is heading under this management.
Me neither
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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We can agree to disagree. Teams are planning their moves now for free agency and the draft. If they are going to trade for Garrett, that will have an impact on acquisition decisions and cap management. Contracts will be signed and rosters built accordingly.
The Browns gain less than $5M in cap savings after June 1 for 2025. In 2026, they will get the picks, and a $21,457,325 dead money hit for their efforts - none of which adresses the $30M plus deficit they must eliminate by March 12th.
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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I think this will get resolved. Myles will sign a long-term contract making him the highest paid Defensive End. The contract will be set up to free cap space now and be used to improve the team this year. Again, I believe that Andrew Berry and Kevin Stefanski see this team as not far off from playoff contention. This team with Jamies Winston under center beat both the Ravens and the Steelers and went to Denver and almost beat a playoff team on the road. With a capable QB that does not turn the ball over this team could just as easily win 11 games again next year. There will be players cut/traded that are no longer in the team's plan. I don't think Myles is going anywhere but he wants it known he wants to be on a team that wants to win. Get thru this season and with insurance money quite a bit of the Watson money gets freed up. Sign Kirk Cousins and draft Abdul Carter and Myles will start to feel better about this team.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
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Legend
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That seemed like the way it was going.
Not now.
Myles is not doing this for any reason other than wanting to win now.
He thought this out and he wants to be traded. In the long term it is better for the Browns.
Myles he will be fine. He will make his money no matter what. He may or may not achieve his goal of winning a Super Bowl.
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Legend
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I don't think Myles is going anywhere but he wants it known he wants to be on a team that wants to win. Get thru this season and with insurance money quite a bit of the Watson money gets freed up. Sign Kirk Cousins and draft Abdul Carter and Myles will start to feel better about this team.
I honestly believe this past season was a breaking point for Myles as the Browns were seen as Super Bowl contenders even after replacing some key coaches (OL-Bill Callahan and OC-Scott Peters..firing Alex Van Pelt).
All bad moves that blew up in the front offices face with those who replaced these coaches/OC "failed" to be good hires..all were fired after the 2024 season..(OC Ken Dorsey, OL Andy Dickerson and Roy Istvan). The Browns front office is directly responsible for their hiring practices and judgement. Hiring and firing coaches and OC after one year is a reflection on the Browns front office.
Myles Garrett can't do anything about those who have control of the franchise. No one in the Browns front office was held responsible for the decisions they made in 2024. The Browns front office deserves an 'F' for their contribution to another failed season for the Browns...3-14 sucks and the future for 2025 doesn't look so good..especially if this front office loses Myles Garrett.
Last edited by mac; 02/04/25 06:49 PM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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I hope Myles stays but honestly I don’t know if it will matter one way or the other. I can understand why he wants to leave. Obviously it’s early there’s a long way to go before our first game in September but I can’t see us winning more than 5 games next season unless we hit on every move we make. Very doubtful with our track record.
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![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg) You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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DTR will be lucky to make the roster.
I do not think he has much say or knowledge about what is going on.
It is almost funny that Grossi quotes DTR.
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If Myles wanted a raise, all he had to do was ask for it and they would have given it to him.
He had no need to use asking for a trade as a negotiation tactic
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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IMO, time for a fire sale. Trade anyone we can for draft picks, suck for the next 2 years and accumulate draft picks until Watson is off the books. Then start to rebuild...again. Hopefully with a better GM.
It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!
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Sad this happened, but like everyone else, hard to blame him.
But some added perspective is needed here. I mean, short of trading him to either KC, or Philly or Houston or maybe Detroit, there are no guarantees. None. So they could trade him to KC for instance and Mahomes could get hurt, they end up having a losing season. NO Guarantees anywhere! I'd trade him to a team with the best first round picks I could find. I am not trading him to where he wants to go. I am trading him to where I get the best deal.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Legend
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As I look at the roster today.
It is very discouraging. Makes me want to fire Berry.
Myles is right asking for a trade. In some ways he is doing the Browns a favor.
He should be traded. In fact I think they should gut the team to accumulate draft picks.
The problem is if they do that I don't really trust Berry to draft players. He may do alright but I don't trust him.
I do not see the team doing anything next year or the following year. After that there is no way to forecast anything because you have no idea who the new players will be.
The mission statement should be clear. Find the quarterback that you are all in on. It is no different than what they have been trying to do since Bernie.
It seems impossible that an organization can be so poorly run for so long.
I know the Browns are not alone. There are a bunch of teams that have done no better. That however is no solace.
We are are a bottom dwelling team with little direction.
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I always felt AB was smart and we were lucky to have him. I'm not so sure anymore. We're in this mess for a reason and someone made decisions to get us where we are now. I feel the same way. Is AB capable enough to make the right moves to make us a legit contender? I really have my doubts.
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I always felt AB was smart and we were lucky to have him. I'm not so sure anymore. It's crazy what one football season can do to a fanbase.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Andrew is a bright young GM. He has made mistakes in constructing this roster.
However, you look at where we are today. It all starts with the DW deal.
Everything begins there. Where we are right now is the direct result of DW deal.
Berry could improve. I think most people get better at their jobs with experience. Berry was given a lifeline by Haslam.
Where the Browns are going now lies in the hands of Berry. I see at least two years of struggling. If good decisions are made in the draft we could turn this around in two years. If the wrong decisions in the draft are made. We will be a bad team for a long time.
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Below is a list of the Browns top paid players that may be on the move via trade or cut this off season with the effect it will have on the Browns cap pre and post June 1st. Keep in mind that the Browns are currently $30M plus over the cap and any post-June 1st move doesn't affect the $30M plus deficit that must be cleared by the league year start on March 12th. Normally, Berry has addressed this kind of deficit by restructuring players contracts. Berry currently only has 2 players that would create any significant dent into the $30M plus deficit.
Watson (Berry has stated publicly that he will not restructure Watson in 2025) and Ward who would free up $9,495,162 leaving the Browns still with a $20,623,162 cap deficit. Note: The 30M plus deficient elimination only makes the Browns compliant on March 12th, the start of the league year. That does not give the Browns any cap room to sign free agents or draft players. The minimum needed for the draft calculated using the lowest rate of pay for a rookie X #draft picks = $840,000 X 9 Browns picks currently = $7,560,000 additional cap space needed for the draft and is based on only the minimum for each player which obviously will be higher depending on round picked and still no cap space for Free Agents. Some of the below will definitely be moved one way or another. Note: 5 of the players listed below are in the final year of their contract in 2025. Unfortunately, because of Berry's constant restructuring, there are huge dead cap monies associated with each player listed below. Kicking That Can Down the Road has consequences - the Browns are in cap hell!
What's your thoughts on how Berry is going to generate cap space?
Watson Contract Notes:
Current 2025 Cap Number: $72,935,000
Language exists that will not forfeit signing bonus or void future guarantees upon suspension
$58.1M of 2024/2025 compensation is insured
Full No Trade Clause 2024-2026
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 trade or pre-June 1 cut: $172,734,000
Dead Money Charge for a post-Jun1 cut: 2025=$118,935,000 - 2026=$99,799,000 (IMHO, no team would trade for Watson's contract)
Ward Contract Notes:
Current 2025 Cap Number: $24,525,212
$12.45M of 2025 salary fully guarantees 3/15/2024
2026 Roster Bonus: $2.5M (3rd league day of 2026)
2027 Roster Bonus: $2.5M (3rd league day of 2027)
Per Game Active Bonus: $35,294 ($600,0000)
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 pre-June 1 trade: $30,399,200
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 post-Jun1 trade: 2025=$10,519,800 - 2026=$19,879,400
Garrett Contract Notes:
Current 2025 Cap Number: $19,722,120
2025 Option Bonus: $18,541,125 (5th league day of 2025)
2026 Option Bonus: $23.7M (5th league day of 2026)
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 pre-June trade: $36,216,220
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 post-June 1 trade: 2025=$14,758,895 - 2026=$21,457,325
Conklin Contract Notes:
Current 2025 Cap Number: $19,114,059
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 trade or pre-June 1 cut: $14,471,000
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 post-June 1 trade or cut: 2025=$4,467,000 - 2026=$10,004,000
Bitonio Contract Notes:
Current 2025 Cap Number: $14,329,000
Final Year of Contract in 2025
2025 Roster Bonus: $3M (3rd day of the league year)
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 trade or pre-June 1 cut: $14,532,000
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 post-June 1 trade or cut: 2025=$5,958,000 - 2026=$8,574,000
Teller Contract Notes:
Current 2025 Cap Number: $14,175,006
Final Year of Contract in 2025
2025 Roster Bonus: $1M (3rd league day of 2025)
2025 Option Bonus: $10M (must be exercised by 3/18/2025)
2025 Per Game Active Bonus: $58,823 ($1M)
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 trade or pre-June 1 cut: $19,178,300
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 post-June 1 trade or cut: 2025=$7,110,300 - 2026=$12,068,000
Newsome Contract Notes:
Current 2025 Cap Number: $13,377,000
Final Year of Contract in 2025
2025 contract $13,377,000 fully guaranteed
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 pre-June 1 trade: $0 - or pre-June 1 cut: $13,377,000
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 post-June 1 trade: $0 - or post-June 1 cut: $13,377,000
Tomlinson Contract Notes:
Current 2025 Cap Number: $11,453,765
2025-2026 Per Game Active Bonus: $44,117 ($750,000)
2025 Roster Bonus: $750,000 (3rd day of the 2025 league year)
2026 Roster Bonus: $750,000 (3rd day of the 2026 league year)
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 trade or pre-June 1 cut: $17,151,000
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 post-June 1 trade or cut: 2025=$5,042,000 - 2026=$12,109,000
Njoku Contract Notes:
Current 2025 Cap Number: $11,377,235
Final Year of Contract in 2025
2025 Per Game Active Bonus: $58,823 ($1M)
All Pro Selection: $250,000 + Playoff berth: $500,000
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 trade or pre-June 1 cut: $20,870,000
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 post-June 1 trade or cut: 2025=$6,935,000 - 2026=$13,935,000
Pocic Contract Notes:
Current 2025 Cap Number: $7,744,000
Final Year of Contract in 2025
2024-2025 Per Game Active Bonus: $20,000 ($340,000)
All-NFL: $500,000
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 trade or pre-June 1 cut: $6,152,000
Dead Money Charge for a 2025 post-June 1 trade or cut: 2025=$1,784,000 - 2026=$4,368,000
Last edited by steve0255; 02/05/25 10:54 AM. Reason: spelling
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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I always felt AB was smart and we were lucky to have him. I'm not so sure anymore. It's crazy what one football season can do to a fanbase. Not one season... one trade, IMO. But yes, the Watson trade was that seismic.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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I said in a previous post I have my doubts that AB can improve our roster. It doesn't mean he can't and I certainly hope he does. He's got a lot of work with the cap also if we really are in the mess other posters say we are and from what I'm reading that seems to be the case. It does all come down to the DW deal. It broke this team not only financially but morale wise. It's a horrible mess and I hope the FO can work together to get us out of it ASAP. As Browns fans, we all know how much it hurts.
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Myles is right asking for a trade. In some ways he is doing the Browns a favor.
The Browns '9 year' record using Baseball Analytics is '54 wins-93 losses-1 tie'.
54-93-1...facing reality is tough, but that is what the Harvard Boys and their analytics crew have produced over the last 9 seasons. Add to the W-L record...look at the condition of the franchise after 9 seasons operating under Baseball Analytics.
So, if Myles is traded, it will give the Browns analytics boys a 'do over'. The Boys can close the books on their 9 year failed record and begin another rebuild. One question I have, will the Browns continue to operate under the Baseball Analytics standards?
It's going to take years to dig the Browns franchise out of the HOLE the analytics boys have dug...1, 2 yrs, if management doesn't dig the hole any deeper with more of their Baseball Analytical approach.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Last edited by mac; 02/05/25 11:36 AM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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If Myles wanted a raise, all he had to do was ask for it and they would have given it to him.
He had no need to use asking for a trade as a negotiation tactic He made it as clear as day it wasn't about the money. It was about winning and he doesn't believe in the plan for the Browns to win moving forward. The only real question left is whether he didn't believe in the plan itself or the people in charge of implementing the plan.... or both. He will make top dollar no matter where he plays.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Myles is a thoughtful guy. This was well thought out.
His statement about Cleveland to Canton was a shot across the bow.
He does not see a positive direction forward in his timeline. IMO he does not believe the organization will get it together.
That starts with Haslam and everyone under him.
Myles has played for eight years in a Browns uniform. He has a first hand view.
IMO he is doing the right thing for him and the Browns. He should be traded. For the Browns to have a worthy product for the opening of their new dome stadium.
Trading Myles will help build an aging bad roster. First business is finding a quarterback. Until that happens all that can be done is for the Browns to add the best young talent they can identify.
Going forward interest in the Browns is not so much about the record but who is added to the team over the next few years.
A .500 team would be an over achievement.
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How do we know Haslam did not force the Watson deal? He has a reputation for doing things off the cuff!
How do we know Haslam did not force the coaching change last year? See above.
It sure smells like it. Haslam did not fire Stefanski and Berry. It is almost like Haslam admitted his mistake by keeping both giving new contracts and raises.
How do we know Garrett is not forcing Haslam, demanding a trade, to stop meddling? Restructured contract for protection?
We are getting a little caught up in the here and now. I suggest we sit back and see what plays out. After all, it is all speculation other than Garrett requesting a trade.
Requesting a trade is not necessarily is best for Garrett. Believe it or not, there are teams more dysfunctional than Cleveland! Whoever the GM is in Cleveland they will make a trade that makes sense for him or her.
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I think Myles will get traded if he continues to want a trade it just will not happen this year IMO. Steve brings up the dead money so often and in this case he is correct. If Myles was traded other dominos would then fall like Joel Bitonio will retire, Denzil will want traded etc... This off season the dead cap hit will be too high to start the full rebuild. I believe the team will bring the band together 1 more time in an attempt to 1. save Berry and Stefanski's jobs. If successful 2. Possibly change Myles mind about wanting traded. If not successful quite a few players will reach the point of their contract that there would be less dead cap and a complete rebuild could happen and would happen with a new GM and coach.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
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Legend
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The dead money only increases next year.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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The dead money only increases next year. Yes, if traded or cut this year. If they play in 2025 the dead cap is less in 2026 and quite a few veterans on the team contracts expire after next season.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
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Garrett: “It’s not a decision I take lightly. It took time and lots of conversation. Just looking at the trajectory of the team, talking to some of the higher-ups, I have a lot of respect for them but I just don’t think we’re aligned on where the team is going in the near future.”
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Failure can look differently at the same time.
The record was a failure and everyone within the Browns organization owns a piece of it.
However, Myles saying he wants to be traded is a direct shot at Berry. The Watson deal was a team killer and there were bloody hands.
The roster of the team now and going forward is Andrew Berry.
Myles does not see the light because right now there is none.
We are not in a position to change things quickly.
Haslam has some soul searching to do. Losing is hard enough to tolerate. It is a different animal when your best player and future HOF'er says we are so bad that I want out.
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Legend
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At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Who are the best players on our roster and who drafted/traded for them?
Not sure so please double check and correct
Myles - Drafted by Sashi
Ward - Drafted by Dorsey
JOK - Drafted by Berry
Chubb - drafted by Dorsey
Bitonio - Drafted by Ray Farmer
Njoku - Drafted by Sashi
Teller - Traded for by Dorsey
Jeudy - Traded for by Berry
Amari Cooper - traded for by Berry
(While not on our team at present Cooper was at the start of the season)
Any players I left off that should be included?
Any GM I mis-corollated?
1st, what a sad list ...
2nd, In 5 years Berry has drafted 1 good player and traded for two good player
What give anybody any confidence going forward?
Clearly Garrett has none
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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All Pro
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Failure can look differently at the same time.
The record was a failure and everyone within the Browns organization owns a piece of it.
However, Myles saying he wants to be traded is a direct shot at Berry. The Watson deal was a team killer and there were bloody hands.
The roster of the team now and going forward is Andrew Berry.
Myles does not see the light because right now there is none.
We are not in a position to change things quickly.
Haslam has some soul searching to do. Losing is hard enough to tolerate. It is a different animal when your best player and future HOF'er says we are so bad that I want out.
You’re absolutely right but to restore faith both inside and outside Berea there must be some changes in the leadership. The Browns have to change the negative narrative around the organization (read leadership) before the start of the draft and the FA season. Even if there’re a few question marks around Stefanski’s tactical ability and leadership he still has his reputation fairly intact. On the other hand…our GM…
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Legend
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At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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This trade could make or break the Browns for years to come. Probably break.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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All Pro
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Joined: Oct 2015
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Myles has checked out with that last radio show, I'm not shocked any longer by it. How many of his sacks made a meaningful impact or changed the game? I could count on 1 hand how many and have enough fingers left to flash the peace sign. The watson trade has been the death sentence of this franchise, I just don't see any moves we can make this off-season that will make us into a playoff contender. Time to do what I did during the 1-31 stretch, just DVR the game and check the result online, if they lost then delete it, if they won then watch the game.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,291 Likes: 348
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,291 Likes: 348 |
I always felt AB was smart and we were lucky to have him. I'm not so sure anymore. It's crazy what one football season can do to a fanbase. It’s crazy that one trade could torpedo a team like the DW trade. I always felt AB was smart and we were lucky to have him. I'm not so sure anymore. It's crazy what one football season can do to a fanbase. Not one season... one trade, IMO. But yes, the Watson trade was that seismic. It has turned into a nightmare for us.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,187 Likes: 1224
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,187 Likes: 1224 |
If there is a way to make a deal for Myles then it should happen.
I don't know how one could be made to work.
Going forward it is all about finding a quarterback. I don't care who but nothing will happen until we get a quarterback.
We have draft picks and Myles could get us some more high picks if a deal can be made.
It looks so easy when the Chiefs win Super Bowls. Obviously it is not. The common thread to win is a great quarterback and good head coach.
It seems almost impossible that Browns quarterbacks have been so awful. Yet the record is crystal clear. Bernie and Sipe got us close.
That is it.
Find a quarterback.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 Likes: 80
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 Likes: 80 |
.....Myles could get us some more high picks if a deal can be made. I doubt it. He would be traded to a contending team which means a bottom third in the draft. I don't see how we could get equivalent (draft) value for him.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 Likes: 80
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059 Likes: 80 |
I always felt AB was smart and we were lucky to have him. I'm not so sure anymore. It's crazy what one football season can do to a fanbase. It’s crazy that one trade could torpedo a team like the DW trade. I always felt AB was smart and we were lucky to have him. I'm not so sure anymore. It's crazy what one football season can do to a fanbase. Not one season... one trade, IMO. But yes, the Watson trade was that seismic. It has turned into a nightmare for us. It has virtually cost us our Super Bowl window. Imagine where we would be with 3 more 1st rd picks....
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,528 Likes: 1441
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,528 Likes: 1441 |
I always felt AB was smart and we were lucky to have him. I'm not so sure anymore. It's crazy what one football season can do to a fanbase. It’s crazy that one trade could torpedo a team like the DW trade. I always felt AB was smart and we were lucky to have him. I'm not so sure anymore. It's crazy what one football season can do to a fanbase. Not one season... one trade, IMO. But yes, the Watson trade was that seismic. It has turned into a nightmare for us. And the fallout continues. What disaster. Next up will be Bitonio announcing his retirement.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,534 Likes: 725
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 13,534 Likes: 725 |
Self inflicted wounds inflicted by incompetent people.
The desire to do something/anything to try and win is not an acceptable excuse for incompetence.
Each fan can decide for themselves how much blame they feel should be directed at the various individuals, namely Haslam, Berry & Stefanski.
For myself I'll blame all 3 equally - KS for not being able to manage and be a better HC to get more out of Baker, manage his ego/immaturity. Letting the relationship get to a point where he felt it was clearly beyond repair. (playing injured and calling back to back to back plays leaving your 3rd string RT one on one with TJ Watt would destroy a lot of trust in many a QB). . . Berry for coming up with the proposals and moving forward with such a high risk trade given his sitting out a year, the multiple allegations, ignoring DW saying he didn't want to be traded to CLE. Haslam for dropping his draws and doing whatever he did to pursue DW.
One poster here (GM) can convince me otherwise regards who should held accountable and to what degree.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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3 members like this:
Floquinho, jfanent, Jester |
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Myles Garrett Requests Trade
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