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Putin invaded when he did because America was weak. We shown weakness with the weakest President in US history and he did what he did. Strength in Washington will keep Putin from invading.

Trump’s call with Putin alarms Europe and shocks Ukraine
© Evan Vucci/AP
KYIV — President Donald Trump’s phone call to Russian President Vladimir Putin has deeply rattled Kyiv and its European partners, triggering long-held fears that Ukraine could be excluded from the peace talks determining its own future and security — as well as that of the rest of the continent.


Trump, who spoke to Putin on Wednesday and then phoned Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to inform him of the call, said that he and his Russian counterpart will soon try to meet in Saudi Arabia without the Ukrainian leader.

The announcement of the Trump-Putin call, which made no mention of Europe, and a pending meeting between the two men also play into European leaders’ fears that their defense interests will fall by the wayside if Trump sidelines them in direct talks with Russia. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Thursday it was “premature” to discuss a role for Europe in any talks.

The reaction from Moscow, which has in the past maintained a reserved tone toward Trump’s statements, has been practically gleeful after the call. Peskov called the new U.S. position to end the conflict “impressive,” while Russian lawmakers hailed it as the start of a new era in relations. Trump’s former national security adviser, John Bolton, told CNN “they’re drinking vodka straight out of the bottle in the Kremlin tonight. It was a great day for Moscow.”


Zelensky has long insisted that talks to end the war must include Ukraine, and European leaders have said they need to include Europe. The Ukrainian president has also pushed for elusive NATO membership or equivalent security guarantees. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth announced Wednesday that returning to Ukraine’s pre-2014 borders is unrealistic, that NATO membership should not be on the table and that U.S. troops in Ukraine would not be part of any security guarantee.

In Ukraine and Europe, such declarations were widely seen as weakening Ukraine’s stance at the bargaining table before talks even began by announcing what Ukraine is expected to give up without clarifying what — if anything — Russia might be forced to concede.


NATO membership was already a distant prospect, rebuffed by the United States and others, and Europeans have quietly acknowledged that Ukraine would probably have to make territorial concessions. Those positions from the Trump team, however starkly delivered at NATO headquarters, didn’t exactly come as a surprise to European officials. Expectations had been low in recent months as some feared Trump, who had pledged to end the war in a day and repeatedly bashed the NATO alliance, could abruptly stop all U.S. aid to Ukraine upon his return.


Still, even as Hegseth maintained the U.S. commitment to NATO, European officials were caught off guard by the Trump-Putin call and by its timing coinciding with Hegseth’s pointed messages on Ukrainian concessions.

One of the bluntest reactions came from E.U. foreign policy chief Kaja Kallas, who said the U.S. administration was giving Russia “everything that they want even before the negotiations.”

“If there is agreement made behind our backs, it will simply not work,” she said. “You need Europeans and Ukrainians to implement this deal.”

For his part, Zelensky initially reacted to the news about the call by trying to assuage concerns that Ukraine had been sidelined and praised his subsequent conversation with Trump as “long” and “detailed.”

On Thursday, however, as outrage mounted in the country, he told journalists that “nothing about Ukraine can be decided without Ukraine.” He said there should be a meeting first to decided how to stop Putin and only then “do I think it would be fair to talk to the Russians.” He added that the Europeans should be at the negotiating table as well.

Many Ukrainians were horrified by the content of the call, with one military officer describing the United States as an unreliable partner and saying the call was “the greatest disappointment from the actions of the United States.”

“Your politicians have lost their dignity,” the officer said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly. “Ukraine’s betrayal after Afghanistan will have catastrophic consequences for America’s perception in the world.”

The continent’s leaders scrambled overnight to insist there should be no negotiations without Ukraine, nor without Europeans. German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said Europeans would be essential to any “emerging order” and should not sit at the “kids’ table.”

Germany’s foreign minister, Annalena Baerbock, said the call came out of the blue. “This is not how others do foreign policy, but this is now the reality,” she told German public radio. Any negotiations should not “go over the heads of the Ukrainians,” she added.

French Defense Minister Sébastien Lecornu said that while the Trump administration had already shared some of its positions in recent months, this was “a real moment of political truth.” He warned that “peace through weakness” could have “dramatic” security implications in the region.


© Simon Wohlfahrt/AFP/Getty Images
Ahead of the call and then afterward in the readout, Putin has talked about the need to deal with the “roots” of the conflict. European officials believe he wants to renegotiate the continent’s security landscape.

“Let’s not forget, Russia remains a threat well beyond Ukraine,” British Defense Secretary John Healey told reporters.

Foreign ministers and officials from several European countries who met in Paris on Wednesday night, including France, Germany and Britain, issued a statement pledging further support for Ukraine.

“We are looking forward to discussing the way ahead together with our American allies,” it said. “Ukraine and Europe must be part of any negotiations. Ukraine should be provided with strong security guarantees.

The negotiations that ended Russia’s first incursion into Ukraine in 2014 resulted in an agreement in the Belarusian capital, Minsk, that was never fully implemented and torn up by Russia ahead of its 2022 invasion.

Mykola Bilieskov, a Ukrainian political analyst at a think tank linked to the presidential office, said he found it “frightening” that Trump’s team appears to be trying “to do everything in terms of settlement at [the] price of Ukraine, its security, well-being and all else.”

Despite talk of concessions by Russia, “we only now understand what Ukraine might be asked to sacrifice.”

“Russia would pocket everything and then violate all promises,” he said. “I just can’t understand that people want to repeat the same mistake — placating [Russia] at our cost. … It didn’t work numerous times. Why will it work this time?”

Others expressed cautious optimism that the process is only just beginning and still leaves room for Ukrainian involvement.

“Trump had to call someone first,” Ukrainian lawmaker Victoria Gryb said. “The situation is not bright, but I just hope that Ukraine’s interests will be respected.” She added that it was still too early to assess potential outcomes ahead of talks.

Another lawmaker, who spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the subject, said that the Trump administration’s plans to meet Zelensky in Munich suggest “we are still in the game and still are [a] participant to the process rather than observer.”

Still, parliament is worried by Trump’s apparent willingness to give away potential bargaining chips “without receipt of anything in exchange.”

“We believe that Trump has very easily stepped back from things that we together could have used in potential negotiations with Russia,” the lawmaker said.


© Anatolii Stepanov/Reuters
On the front line, similar fears rippled through troops who have spent years defending Ukraine’s territory.

“The only thing that can stop Putin, the only thing, is if he simply exhausts himself,” said one company commander fighting near the besieged eastern city of Pokrovsk. “If Trump manages to achieve that, then I believe some kind of ceasefire might be possible. But I do not believe in the end of the war as long as Russia exists in the form in which it seeks to destroy us.”

The commander said he still sees room for Trump to grow frustrated with Putin. But he insisted that Ukraine’s sovereignty will not depend solely on Trump’s vision of the country’s future.

“Whether the U.S. and Trump help us or not, I understand that we must continue fighting,” he added. “Because for us, this is a question of survival.”

Francis reported from Brussels. Serhiy Morgunov and Anastacia Galouchka in Kyiv, Mary Ilyushina and Kate Brady in Berlin contributed to this report

https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/...ams-donald-trump-s-intellect/ar-AA1yXSiU

U.S. President Donald J. Trump stunned the world by offering unprecedented concessions to Russia in its ongoing invasion of Ukraine on Wednesday—seemingly without getting anything in return. Before the formal peace talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin even started, Trump and members of his administration dismissed the idea that Ukraine could reclaim its territories that Russia currently occupies, slammed the door shut for Kyiv’s hope of NATO membership, and refused to acknowledge Ukraine as an equal member in the peace process.


While Ukrainians and their allies were left in disbelief, Russian state TV and radio stations were full of elated propagandists, who grinned ear to ear and periodically broke out into uproarious laughter.

During Wednesday’s broadcast of the state TV program 60 Minutes, host Olga Skabeeva described the events as “unthinkable” and “unimaginable.” She asked Mikhail Antonov, the network’s correspondent in Europe, “What does it all mean? Ukraine is left without NATO? Ukraine is left without money?” Antonov said that the era of American dominance had ended and surmised that Europe wouldn’t be able to compete with the volume of military assistance America used to provide. Throughout his commentary, Skabeeva smiled broadly and couldn’t hide her glee.

Co-host of 60 Minutes Evgeny Popov marveled at the fact that Trump is doing Moscow’s job by destroying Western alliances and “sawing” Europe into pieces—something that the Kremlin dreamt of doing all along.

Related video: Trump Reveals Secret Call with Putin - 'He wants peace' |Slams Biden for 'failures' in Ukraine war (Oneindia (Video))

For years, Russian state TV experts predicted that Trump’s return to the Oval Office would mean cutting off American aid to Ukraine, which would, in turn, change the odds in their favor. However, even the Kremlin’s talking heads are surprised by the speed of Trump’s gallop towards Moscow—and amazed that the leader of the mightiest nation in the world is treating war criminal Putin as his equal.

During Wednesday’s broadcast of The Evening With Vladimir Solovyov, Director General of Mosfilm Karen Shakhnazarov said that regardless of what happens in the future, Wednesday’s revelations can be described as Russia’s “big success.” He said, “The president of the United States called the president of Russia. That alone is already a major success!”


Shakhnazarov explained, “The blockade has been broken. It means a lot to all of them that the president of the United States, the mightiest nation in the West, as great as the Roman Empire, made this call. It’s as if Julius Caesar himself telephoned a barbarian, a chieftain of some German tribe.”


Solovyov rejoiced about an assertion by Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth that the United States intended to disregard NATO’s Article 5 in the event Europe militarily engaged with Russia. Political scientist Sergey Mikheyev said, “In this situation, we should make it clear for the Europeans: now we can really strike Brussels, London or Paris, because we can forget about Article 5. You can forget the notion that Americans would step in on your behalf.” Solovyov chimed in to add, “I like the way you think.”

During Thursday’s radio show, Full Contact, Solovyov approvingly read commentary by the network’s correspondent in the U.S., Valentin Bogdanov, who wrote, “During negotiations, the victors are the ones dictating conditions. This is the foundation of diplomacy—and the entirety of what is being dictated should be said in the Russian language.”


Solovyov added that the telephone conversation between Trump and Putin “has caused a total collapse of Zelensky’s world,” and Europe is “insanely panicked.” He said that Trump’s approach follows the logic of Putin’s ultimatum in December 2021, when he claimed that “NATO expansion” was a core reason for the invasion. While gloating about the Trump administration repeatedly reiterating its belief that Ukraine must concede certain territories to Russia, Solovyov sternly asserted that Russia does not intend to relinquish any of its conquests.

The same view reverberated across Russia’s state media, with experts urging the military to advance quickly and take as much Ukrainian land as possible. After Putin’s negotiations with Trump, they fully anticipate being able to keep the spoils and evade the consequences.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/...greenlight-to-expand-the-war/ar-AA1yYnN1

What has Trump actually done to deter Putin from what he's been doing since 2014? Biden-term sanctions supposedly has Russia's economy on the ropes and cut off from Europe, and now Trump is going to undo all that just in time to let Russia begin to bounce back... as well as keeping land from his 2 campaigns. This admin is approaching these peace talks like a bunch of cowards, but that should come as no surprise as the party has been calling appeasement almost since the invasion kicked off.

Look at the Russian market response to the news Trump is working with Putin. All green.

MAGA will never grasp reality as long as Trump lives. Hell, some on this board would support his corpse over a left leaning leader.

Considering Vladimir Lenin’s corpse is still being propped up in Russia by communist revolutionaries, that’s a given. It’s what communist sympathizers do.

So now you blame the actions of Putin invading one of our allies on Biden? More excuses for the actions of Putin? Well done yet again Comrade.

But I do understand you have been busy trying to make excuses for many things that are inexcusable. Try real hard to focus. Nobody is at fault for Putin's invasion of Ukraine but Putin.

Weakness is rewarding Putin for his invasion of Ukraine. You complain we gave them money to fight Putin which helped give them strength and then claim the one who helped them fight against Ukraine had shown weakness. Meanwhile it's the president you support emboldening Russia by rewarding them for their invasion of Ukraine.

You need to figure out what strength looks like instead of just puking out GOP talking points.

Helping Ukraine fight Russia = Strength

Handing Putin Ukraine territory he got by attacking our ally. = Weakness.

Fighting Russia is strength. Throwing money at it is not strength. Is Ukraine and allies? That is a stretch. They are not a part of NATO and they are a very corrupt country in their own right.

So if fighting Russia is strength, then what is capitulating to their demands?

Arming them and enabling them to fight Russia is strength. You just keep digging that rabbit hole deeper while trump is kissing Putin's ass and you blame it on others.

I suppose arming the Taliban to fight the USSR was strength, too? For some reason, giving people with different values weapons rarely tends to end well.

Of course Trump having weapons isn't great, either.

The situation is undoubtedly a mess, and I don't know the answer. Calling what we were doing strength is a stretch to me. It looks a lot like a half-assed PR stunt, at the behest of the military industrial complex and other lobbies (gas/oil?) which smelled profits. link (Not saying that's exactly how things are, but it seems a perspective worth considering.)

I mean maybe you'll tell me you aren't trying to equate the taliban and Ukraine ... But thats what it reads to me and i see a false equivalent and significant difference.

Out of interest what are the different values you speak of? I get that corruption is a factor in Ukraine. But thats not a value. They are a democratic western nation .... They are fighting Putin who is universally viewed as a dictator and threat to Europe/world and an agitator.... However you want to couch that. The only western world leader looking to buddy up to Putin being Trump....

And its mildly interesting that the guy that spammed 3 twitter posts extolling russian propaganda, liked your post.

so now you have compared Ukraine to the Taliban. Imagine that. And what "different values" do Ukrainians have? Are they not a democracy? Do they not just want their freedom to govern themselves? Pray tell what are these different values you speak of?


Not really. What one actually needs to consider is that we were weakening one of our biggest enemies by funding Ukraine at a fraction of the cost it would take to fight a war with Russia to accomplish that same goal. Nobody, and I mean nobody expected Ukraine to put up a fight this long with Russia nor inflict the damage they have done against one of our biggest enemies. Without the funding from the U.S. and our European allies none of that could have happened. Sometimes it's as simple as something being a wise investment.

We were hashing this out in an earlier portion of the invasion.

Ukraine IS an ally, but they are not NATO and there also isn't any other sort of "an attack on one is an attack on all" agreement. I'll be honest, I don't have a great understanding of this stuff beyond some cursory internet searches and quick reading. There seems to be "stages" of being an ally, and Ukraine/US seems to be on the lower rung.


That said, it's not too hard to imagine the benefit of having a stronger buffer ally ('little a') between Russia and our NATO Allies (Ally with a "big A").

So I’m clear, are you wanting us to go to war with Russia??

J/C

Democracy is a system, not a value.

Plug in Ukraine and the US here (might already be): Country Comparison Tool

Looks like there are some differences to me.

I'm not saying the Ukrainians are horrible people. However, just because our interests align now (and I'm not sure what we've done entirely does align with their interests,) doesn't mean they will later. The Ukrainians later deciding we used them to make a profit and being upset about it isn't that hard for me to imagine.

No.


But we will likely have to when Russia does attack a NATO ally... of which the likelihood increases the more we appease Putin.

Also, Ukraine was doing the fighting for us (and doing a damn fine job until we started messing with the supply of equipment). We were arguing this back and forth this past summer, but I'll tell you right now that you're not going to convince me that (had we not slowed down their progress by holding back equipment) they wouldn't have continued their gains in their second counterattack.

Why, because we didn't re elect Trump? What weakness did we show... Please be specific.....

If Ukraine becomes the taliban, it will be the fault of people who voted Adolph Twittler into office. And allowed him to let the richest man in the world, Hindreich Musk-Himher, to end the social safety net. I hope y’all can afford to subscribe to life when the time comes.

/thread

Funny. Just like the entire world calling us fascist now. Hysterical. You’re part of the problem.

You may enjoy footing the bill for the entire world, but I do not. That does not make me a fascist. We are not citizens of the world; we are citizens of the United States of America and putting American needs above world needs is what OUR President should be about. It is OK to help out when needed but we cannot sustainably support the entire world. Some other nations need to pay their fair share also and we need to keep an eye on but keep out of others' problems. That is not fascism that is how it should be.

I don’t care what you think. People like you put us here. You are nothing to me. Shame on you, oath breaker.

I'm really having a hell of a time marrying up your Ukraine stance with your Israel stance.

Israel is a longtime ally to the USA. Ukraine is not an Allies. Never has been. If The US and NATO would have decided to join forces and decided to fight Russia, I would have supported that. I do not support throwing money away. Ukraine is a lost cause. Russia could take them any time they want. I believe they are playing with Ukraine trying to drain the west of money and resources. Biden and the dem's just throw money at them recklessly. Israel on the other hand is a sovereign nation. Palestine does not exist. That country was lost when the Ottoman Empire lost WW1 because they fought against the allied forces. The People that consider themselves Palestinians either need to accept that and become Israeli citizens or get out. Hamas is a terrorist organization and must be destroyed. Like ISIS and other radicals.

Probably because it is who we need to make a deal with to end the war. Unless Putin comes to a deal, the war will continue. Ukraine keeps fighting until they are all dead or we stop sending billions in aid. This isn't anything like Chamberlain making a deal with Nazi Germany.

...And giving people nazi-transvestite nicknames ("Hindreich Musk-Himher") is a part of a solution in your mind?

It's "funny" how you think wanting to analyze and kick around ideas about the issue is problematic, but seem to believe name calling is the answer to the world's problems.

I didn't want to deal with crazy yesterday, but you called me out and I'm not a morning person. How does hateful rhetoric make you any better than Trump?

Demonizing people rarely leads to solutions. It seems to generally lead to atrocities. To me, you seem to be acting like the thing you allegedly can't stand. Blaming other people while you spout gibberish and call people names feels pretty Trumpian.

Demonizing the demonic is not a thing. YOU and your ilk are responsible for all the bad crap that is about to happen. You wanted this to own the libs. Congrats, you sure owned us. Smh.

Tell me about divides and how people should act when you stop voting for a man committing anti-American acts and atrocities. The USAID cutoff is an atrocity. Cutting medicaid is an atrocity. Cutting SNAP is an atrocity. Letting babies contract aids is an atrocity. Are you people even human anymore? Or does the almighty dollar and the impossible chance you might one day be a billionaire make all this crap all right with you? Ask yourself WWJD? Then pull your lip over your head ansd swallow.

And FYI, I’m not an anytime of the eon guy when it comes to this blantant fascism and selling out the country. I’m a straight hater and mouth buster.

You don't think Europe or Ukraine not being involved is a problem?

Be honest, how would you feel if Biden did this same thing?

I really can't even imagine how anyone could believe nearly everything you just said. I say that objectively.

To dissect the points:

1. Ukraine is an ally. All allies start at some point. They pivoted toward pro-Western and pro-Democracy in 2014 when they broke from Russian puppet regimes.

2. You would have been okay with boots on the ground in Ukraine against Russia?

3. We are not throwing money away. I have explained this ad nauseum. The majority of our aid - the great majority - is sending materiel into theater to do what it was designed to do. We spend significant dollars every year to combat and/or stay ahead of Russia. The investment is finally paying off, with a B Team, nonetheless.

4. You believe they are playing with Ukraine trying to drain the West? Are you freaking serious??? That would be like me beating myself up hoping that someone else suffers for it. That concept is absolutely ludicrous. Russia could take them anytime they want? So, it's part of Russia's plan to allow Ukraine to invade and occupy Russia's own turf. I mean, come on man.... Even your guy was talking about how poorly it has gone for Russia. It's undeniable.

5. "Biden and the Dems just throw money at them recklessly." Again, proven false.

6. Israel is a sovereign nation...so is Ukraine.

7. Your point that Palestine needs to get out....so Russia should stay???

I mean, honestly, this is brainwashed level reasoning. I know that sounds harsh, but very little - if any - of what you said is based on rationality or objectivity.

You sound like Neville Chamberlain when he was appeasing Hitler. Keep on promoting that trump appease Putin. That's what Chamberlain promoted. See how much that costs us in the end. You know what they say about those who do not learn from history and you sir certainly haven't.

I remember when students hid under their desk in case of a nuclear attack as if that would have done any good. I remember the Soviet Union and what a vast empire that was. I remember the arms race and how much that cost to maintain. I remember the decades long threat they posed to us. I remember our nation fighting and winning that cold war. I remember how relieved Americans were when the Soviet Union fell.

It appears to me that the memory of Americans in general is no longer than that of a gnat. The very thing they are promoting strengthens Putin, expands his territory and gives him every reason in the world to continue down this same path. I have no idea when helping to strengthen your enemies became a good thing. Especially the former Soviet Union.

Sorry you are not rationale enough to understand reality!!!

Yeah, bankrupting our taxpayers to help a lost cause!!!

MPGA You mean like Make Putin Great Again?

That's your reality.

I didn't believe in reincarnation until today. How you doing Neville!?

You seem to have forgotten how much the cold war cost. The Ukraine war didn't and wouldn't bankrupt taxpayers. But the end result of emboldening Putin just might. You've been so indoctrinated you can no longer see what a wise investment looks like.

Your mind must be a wondrous adventure like Alice in Wonderland… because your points are cartoonish fairytales.

You’ll pay more in taxes as soon as the chump change cut you get expires in a year, while Billionaires laugh all the way to the bank after bathing in your self-pity. He’s taking from the poor to give to the rich, it’s as plain as the nose on your face… assuming you have a nose and a face.

Do the simple math:

4.5 Trillion Budget + 4 Trillion in debt ceiling increase +4 Trillion in tax cuts mostly for the wealthy - 2 Trillion in social services = screw the working class

I just explained reality to you, and you're denying it.

Apparently demonizing the demonic is a thing if that's how you're twisting what it is you're doing.

How exactly am I responsible and who exactly are my ilk? I didn't want to own the libs. I wanted the "libs" to not "get owned," but you apparently can't help yourselves. You call yourself a hater and mouth buster, and everyone else is fascist.

I didn't vote for Trump.

There are certainly lots of atrocities in the world. I see both sides committing them in Ukraine vs Russia. That's the nature of war. Senseless killing over what label goes on a map and who owns what. With people usually not seeing the benefit bearing the brunt of the cost in sweat, and blood, and death. Are you interested in ending the war or prolonging it? Yes, we can help Ukraine keep fighting with money and material. Will continuing the war that way somehow decrease atrocities that I'm not aware of? We're basically a teacher giving a billy club and a hundred bucks to a sixth grader and telling them to go take care of their senior bully. Sure, you want to help the kid getting picked on, but what lesson are you teaching? And the kid is probably still going to get the snot beat out of him. Maybe the kid wins the fight eventually, but he'll still be a broken mess afterwards. Personally, I'm tired of the world thinking having the poor killing the other poor to prop up politicians/oligarchs/corporate entities/"countries" is a good way for things to operate.

"You people"....Nope, I'm not human anymore.... Wait, wasn't it the Nazis that dehumanized people?

You don't know me at all if you think I'm in anything for the money. I despise all the millionaires. Especially those that claim they want to help people. Personally, being a millionaire and giving a damn about other people seem rather mutually exclusive.

I thought Jesus said to love your enemy? Judge not lest ye be judged. Hypocrites like you are why I can't take the WWJD crowd seriously.