DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum NFL Salary Cap To Take Another Big Leap in 2025

I thought "Math doesn't lie." How some guy in the UK explaining the math is Andrew Berry's propaganda you'll have to spell out for me, if you want me to understand, because I'm not following.

Business-wise/cap-wise, nothing has to change. What has to change is getting the QB right.

If QBs are a coin flip, the Browns are beyond due. (Sadly, probability doesn't actually effect outcomes)

Putting it here too.

Watson will be on the Browns books until 2030 in some fashion or another. It is what it is at this point. At least there is space to maneuver and hopefully put together a good 2025 season. Can't get any worse than 2024.

Let's step back and look at what is really happening.

First, the huge increase in the cap was larger than most had expected. The problem is that increase only reduced the 2025 cap deficit by about 8-9 million from what was predicted.

Second, this continued talk about not worrying about the prorated contracts because the salary cap increases does not add up. The Browns were 2nd in the NFL with $41.951 million carryover from 2024 and they led the NFL in Berry restructured contracts in 2024. The NFL and NFLPA have agreed to a 2025 salary cap of $279.2 million per club. The $279.2 million cap number represents a $23.8 million increase from last year's $255.4 million figure and is the latest record high. That means the Browns basically have had $65.751 million added to the cap number of $255.4 million figure from 2024 which gives the Browns a 25.74% increase in available cap in 2025. The issue rears its ugly head when you look at the available cap for 2025 of $321,151,049 is currently ($23,240,350) short of the available cap for the top 51 players contract liabilities right now of $344,391,399. That's means the Browns currently actually need $88,991,350 to cover their current liabilities, an overall increase of 34.84% of the 2024 cap.

There's a couple of huge issues with this Berry cap. The cap increase does not cover the prorated numbers as many believe. In fact, the Browns cap increase, and carryover money doesn't cover their current liabilities. Another issue is the 34.84% increase in liabilities (which must be balanced by March 12th) does not include any monies for free agency, contract extensions, or the draft.

Of the current 51 players currently included in the Browns liabilities, 30 of them have 2025 base salaries of the league minimum (depending on tenured years.) That's 58.8% of the current 51 players are at the league minimum base salary. Included within this group of 30 would include Bitonio, Njoku, Garrett, Delpit, JOK, Shelby Harris, DTR, and Hopkins. None of the 30 are eligible for a 2025 base salary restructure because they are already at the league minimum base salary.

Bottomline is no matter how you cut it, the $23.8 million 2025 cap increase (9.32%) does not cover the 34.84% increase currently needed JUST TO BREAK EVEN!

I am absolutely positive that the cap will not increase 35% in 2026 or 2027, but the Browns liabilities will continue to grow at a much quicker pace. Remember, the Browns and Berry led the NFL in 2024 in restructures which will have to be paid (accounting wise) over the next 4-years because the team cannot adjust those costs.

You've been wrong EVERY step of the way over many years, along with a couple of others about this cap topic.

It's time to move on.....

I am just glad the Browns have an owner that spends money and attempts to put a winner on the field. Last year was a miserable year no doubt. Let's hope things can turn around in 2025 and move forward. If the cap goes down or doesn't go up then the Browns will need to worry. not until then. You don't have to go thru life always worried the sky is falling.

I don't disagree about spending money and wanting to win. But Jimmy has made some terrible decisions and, arguably, infusing himself into the football/player side of things has done more harm than good.

Can't wait until JW gets his turn.
#DudeWipes

With all due respect, I have not been wrong. You choose to believe differently. I'm ok with that, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I don't think you are wrong. It is just the cap can be manipulated and over the years GM's have found ways to manipulate the cap in different ways. The Watson deal has hurt the Browns flexibility no doubt and will continue to do so for probably the next 5 years. If and or when the Browns choose, to tear it down and rebuild they will then take the cap hit you are projecting and cut, trade the veterans on the team and rebuild with youth on their first contract and once the FO feels they have a window they will start to spend in FA again. This FO wants to win now with the veterans they have. They are trying to right the mistakes made last year and move forward. The cap manipulation allows them that flexibility. Now if the cap goes down like in the covid year that flexibility goes away. The bottom line is the NFL's cap is not the hard cap once thought it was. If the Browns can hit on a rookie QB this year or next, then the cap space, they can save having the QB for 5 years on a rookie contract can gain them the space to get out from under Watson's contract that does hurt and takes some of the flexibility Berry would like to have.

Summary of where we now stand with Watson Contract

Supposedly with the latest restructure we're basically there in terms of being out from under Watson's contract.

Minimal salary this year and $46m next.


I truly have no idea how any of this works. I think I understand how the cap works less every time I hear about stuff we do to this contract.

This is how quickly people forgot about 2017.

I can not get this pic of AB saying "hold my beer" out of my head.

Everything right here is exactly why now is the time to trade Myles Garrett, maximize his draft capital, begin the necessary rebuild rather delay the inevitable. Berry and Stefanski needing to save their jobs is counterproductive to what is best for the long term success of the organization.

Yes, please move on. We are on what..year 3 or 4(?) it’s became synonymous with sooner or later I’ll be right, you’ll see.

All that’s going to happen is Berry will save a certain % to roll over next year, another contract or more will fall off after the season , and the same cycle will happen again.

100% spot on!

It’s not about being negative, it’s about accepting that Berry’s salary cap manipulation and our bad decision making at some point will catch up to us.

I'm just curious how much people think 12 million in cap space will buy on the FA market? It's not "cap hell" in the purest definition of the term but it's pretty close to it. It certainly puts huge constraints on filling glaring holes on the roster.

Not really. Signing bonuses and back load the cap hits. Cash can make it work if the right value is there. Honestly, I don't see a FA that is worth paying a big contract for us really.

See what Fields wants. Maybe bring in a Tommy Tremble at TE. Other than that I'm looking at near vet minimum 1 year contract depth. Draft will be where we have a shot to improve. As it generally should be.

Back loading contracts has gotten them to the point they are now. Having one of the lowest available salary cap space positions in the NFL.

Yes, I'm quoting myself.

I just realized that I think I read this tweet wrong. He's talking about actual dollars flowing to Watson, and not cap impact.

And? Being at the cap is where you want your team to be. Just need to get it right at QB this time. Starting QB on a rookie contract is the most valuable commodity in sports from a cost-benefit standpoint. Cash is king, cap is a facade.

Exactly. Being 50 million under the cap and everyone will be saying Haslam is too cheap to spend money. I don't believe they are done yet freeing up cap space for 2025. I do believe they will spend on a few starters. I just do not see them spending huge $$$ on the top free agents. Not this year. They will get 1 or 2 players and sign them to 2-to-4-year deals and then round out the roster with 1 year deal players that have value to a team but are of age no team wants to commit long term They have done that quite a bit since being here.

All things considered; the Watson restructure was the only path Berry could take after the cap hole he created for 2025. The big negative is Watson now has a $135,394,566 dead money cap hit in 2026 if cut pre-June 1st or $81,681,678 in 2026 and $53,712,888 in 2027 if cut post-June 1st, 2026. To put that in perspective, the Total Existing Dead Money for 2025 is $52,131,941. The Browns and Berry needed 38.84% more than the 2024 cap just to be league compliant by March 2025. How much more will Berry need above the 2025 cap to cover all the new and current restructures to make the number by March 2026 if actually considering cutting bait with Watson? 2026's dead money cap w/Watson included is looking to be north of $125 million. But hey, the Browns don't have no damn cap problem.

How does insurance effect that? I think Watson's Achilles "never healing right" is in play, and he just rides out the contract on IR. It sucks, but it's not my money and there's "cap relief." I don't know enough about the sports injury insurance business to know how/if they protect themselves from multi-year/career ending injuries. I'm guessing, as Andrew Brandt says, "There will be lawyers."

All things considered; the Watson restructure was the only path Berry could take after the cap hole he created for 2025. The big negative is Watson now has a $135,394,566 dead money cap hit in 2026 if cut pre-June 1st or $81,681,678 in 2026 and $53,712,888 in 2027 if cut post-June 1st, 2026. To put that in perspective, the Total Existing Dead Money for 2025 is $52,131,941. The Browns and Berry needed 38.84% more than the 2024 cap just to be league compliant by March 2025. How much more will Berry need above the 2025 cap to cover all the new and current restructures to make the number by March 2026 if actually considering cutting bait with Watson? 2026's dead money cap w/Watson included is looking to be north of $125 million. But hey, the Browns don't have no damn cap problem.

Watson's contract will get restructured 1 more time probably next year around this same time. The remaining $$$ on his contract will get spread out to around 2030 and then they will designate him a post June 1st cut in 2026. They did collect some insurance money for the games he missed in 2023, they will get some money for the 9 games he missed in 2024, and if he does not play in 2025, they will receive around 44 million to use against the 2026 cap. The smartest thing they did was pay insurance on his seasons. Watson will be on the Browns books for the next 5 years.

The easiest way to look at this is Haslam is paying a lot of $$$ so Berry can maneuver around the cap. If Andrew Berry or Kevin Stefanski was the reason the Browns acquired Watson Haslam would have fired them long before now. The fact he has not fired them is very telling who made that decision. The problem was when the decision was made the Browns realized the QB they had was not a franchise QB and they tried to get a franchise QB and made a deal that cost Haslam quite a bit of money.

Berry's work with the cap is not the reason the Browns only won 3 games last season. Stefanski's coaching is also not the reason the Browns went 3-14. He had to relinquish the play calling and change the offense to try to better suit Watson. That is the main reason the Oline fell apart. They had lineman that are better wide zone blockers and not straight up man movers. If Stefanski's coaching was the problem Haslam would have fired him.

This season Stefanski is going back to what this Oline does best and that is wide zone blocking. That will be a huge difference. I believe Beery will revamp the run game. That is a QB best friend. They will sign a Vet and draft a rookie and Stefanski will get to hand pick his QB. Something he has not done in his 5 years here.

Are the Browns going to win a Super Bowl next year even if every move pans out. No. But I believe the product on the field will be much improved. Then after this year while Watson's contract will still be hitting the cap the % of hit the cap will take due to that terrible contract it will get less and less until it is gone in 2031. At least the Browns have an owner that spends $$$ and uses the entire cap. He probably needs to get out of his experts way more than he does. And Berry does a great job playing gymnastics with the cap.

Sarcasm?

Most of the salary restructuring that’s going on right now is done by force to avoid being over the salary cap and it’s because of earlier bad decision making.
In layman terms it’s called damage control.

Doing a great job is to prevent a situation like this to happen.
That’s why an organization like KCC let go of Hill, to name one example.

In no way has Berry done a great job.

Half of his decisions has been good to decent but the rest has been bad to disastrous even if I take in to account that he wasn’t totally at fault for the Watson deal.

Since the 2020 season the Browns have regressed on almost every crucial metrics.

The results don’t lie.
Our restricted salary cap speaks for itself.
The Myles Garrett conflict. The Baker Mayfield conflict. A bunch of other disputes with other former Browns players.
The carousel when it comes to hire and fire coaches and O/D-coordinators.
No FQB. Not even a decent backup.
Our poor recruitment history the last five seasons.
Our lack of talents. The age profile on our better players.

Honestly, is the standard in this organization so low that we call the restructuring of the salary cap a measure of doing a great job?

Increasing pay is the purpose of the salary cap.

However, everybody doesn't get a raise at the same time. All players are under a contract. They play out that contract unless the team decides to extend a select few players.

Teams like the Browns spend up near the cap. The increase allows more space to extend the players they want to keep and gives room to sign a free agent or two.

Salaries keep going up as the cap goes us. It is sort of like a profit-sharing program. As teams get more and more from outside sources, like TV money etc., the players share in that take.

It also needs to be noted that the owners have to spend a percentage of that money with players. We all read about salary cap but teams are required to spend a certain amount of money as a floor. I don't know the exact numbers, but say they have to spend 70% of the cap over a 3 year average.

It's not like owners can stuff the money in their pocket.

I hate to disappoint you, but you are incorrect on your Watson prorate salary being spread out until 2030. If, as you say, the Browns restructure Watson again in 2026 and then designate him as 1 of the 2 players they can designate for a post-June 1st cut prior to June 1st, his dead money cap has to hit the books in 2026 and 2027 only. They do not have the option to spread it out longer according to the NFL & NFLPA rules.

In your scenario, restructuring Watson in 2026 serves no purpose if they are going to designate him as a post-June 1 at the start of the league year. The dead money cap charge would be the same which is a dead money cap charge for 2026 of $81,681,678 and $53,712,888 in 2027.

If the Browns decide to restructure Watson in 2026 and let him finish out his contract here, then when his contract expires at the start of the 2027 season, the Browns will be charged a dead money cap charge of about $90,817,888 in March at the start of the new league year in 2027.

Here's how I see it. Let's say you went in for surgery to remove a cyst from your hand. The surgeon instead removed your entire hand. A year later you get a cyst on your other hand. Are you going back to that same surgeon?

Well...that non-FQB they didn't keep has thrown more TD passes than anyone else in the NFL over the last two years. The problem really WAS when the ^ decision was made.

Not only did that deal 'cost Haslam quite a bit of money'...it led to a 3-14 season with an old, shallow roster with a cap issue and no viable QB option.

Other than that...all is well.

We call making the playoffs half the time while having to constantly deal with this owner (that has dictated the worst QB decision(s) ever and made awful calls on GMs and Coaches before the current ones), these fans/media, public/outside player perception that formed years ago, and the worst injury luck in the league over their tenure to be doing a decent job and are willing to give them a chance to draft their own QB.

We've seen awful people in the jobs. This isn't that.

I'm willing to give a good human more slack. Is the patience running out and do they need a "good" (hope apparent) season/draft? Absolutely.

I agree finagling the salary cap doesn't automatically equal greatness. At the same time, he was referring only to the cap which has had a giant black hole to work around. If you believe the black hole was an owner decision, dealing with it was a Herculean task.

Baker is not a franchise QB. Never was one and never will be one. He is in a good situation for him. The weak NFC South. He seems to have improved his attitude and grew up after leaving here. I think life humbled him some. He was a cancer with the Browns and there is no denying that fact.

There is 100% the ability to deny that claim...a claim that is far from a fact.

You don't lead the NFL in TD passes over a two year span without being a damn good QB. More than Mahomes, Burrow...even the great Josh Allen. You lead your team to division titles and playoff wins and you are a FQB...a QB that is the face of the franchise and a guy you wouldn't get rid of..or let go.

Everywhere he goes, the players love him...they love them some cancer I suppose. The Bucs FO love him...they must love a brash, immature QB who throws the ball like a REAL NFL QB and wins games.

Thank you, Mrs. Mayfield!!! he single handedly destroyed the team that won a playoff game in 2020 with his own actions. Look at his paycheck and you can see what the NFL thinks of him. When he gets paid like a franchise QB then I will change my mind. The fact is he found a niche to be a good but not great QB that wins in a weak division.

Not before the FA signing period. Being at the cap limit is where you want to be going into the season. And if you've built your team right you will have players in back up roles to fill in for players whose contracts are expiring going into next season which will free up cap space then when going into the FA signing period.

Being close to the cap going into the FA signing period is counterproductive to filling gaps. With teams like the Browns you can't fill them all in the draft.

Starting a QB on a rookie contract is a wonderful way to relieve and free up your salary cap. But in the end it's a disaster if you don't draft the right rookie QB.

By playing injured the following season? In case you missed it, he was the QB that led the browns to the playoffs in 2020.


The hate is real.

You sound like a jilted ex-girlfriend. Are you the infamous girl in the Cheesecake Factory parking lot?

No, I am the fan is still bitter from the 2018 decision to draft Mayfield. Tried hard to get behind him and almost was convinced in 2020. The came 2021. I saw a QB that pouted and alienated a teammate OBJ and divided a locker room. Then pouted again when the Browns showed interest in a different QB. Johnny Manziel 2 sent a goodbye letter before he was ever released and before Watson was ever signed. Browns should have taken Darnold, Allen, or Jackson. That was the decision that set the franchise back. If a better decision at #1 was made Watson would have never happened.

So you've been a really mad fan for a very long time now, huh? I at least enjoyed the playoff years.

No, you're just angry at all the posters and starting arguments with everyone on the board. I just hated the 2018 draft pick and what that bad decision has in turn caused. I was hopeful that Watson who was until his legal trouble a much better QB than Mayfield would right that wrong, but it did not.