DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk 2025 NFL Draft Draft III

You just love them all. I hope this FO is more selective than that.

It is a poor QB class. In a good QB class none of them would be considered first round picks. Desperation leads to bad decisions. That pretty much covers this entire QB draft class. So yes, I have seen you propose how any of the first three QB's in this class would be a good pick. That's not how this process works.

Only every draft expert but bonefish.

I would not be disappointed if the Browns went Tyler Shough at #2. If he was 22 and was coming off the season, he just had he would be top ten. His age and injury history are the only reason draft guru's have him as a 2nd day pick. He is 6"5 225 lbs. Strong arm and an accurate thrower. He is a mobile QB that can escape in the pocket and run for first downs if needed. His injuries have not been torn ligaments. He broke bones and they are healed now. I don't think they will. I really think they are picked Sanders. From what Haslam has said decision making and accuracy is his top 2 traits and Sanders fits that profile best. The Browns are going QB at #2 no doubt. Stefanski has not selected a QB yet and he will not go down without selecting his guy. Also, the Browns have a draft party at the stadium planned and Journey is performing. They are not doing all of that for a DE or WR/CB.

You are trying to show how a weak QB draft class will be drafted as an example? You listen to people who say what you want to hear. Just because desperate teams will reach for a QB isn't anything new for anyone that has paid attention to previous drafts.

These guys profession is to hype the draft. Some buy into the hype and some don't.

Mock drafts and evaluations are two different things. A lot of the guys doing mocks think teams will reach. I also think they are overly comparing the class to itself rather than NFL QBs which is what actually matters ultimately. Plus, they put out a ton of mocks for "content" and controversy brings clicks.

Teams could reach. Yet, talent evaluation wise, these QBs leave a lot to be desired, personally. To me, a lot of the projected early ones are going to need just about everything right around them to be successful. They'll probably stick around for awhile with people thinking they can be the ones to make it work. I just don't see it now. Maybe they'll progress enough to start eventually, but asking any of them to start day one seems borderline crazy to me. If I don't think they should start this year, I'm not taking them at 2.

Cam Ward is the best creator and has the tools to succeed/overcome mistakes. Sanders/Dart/Shough tend to let other players mishaps snowball and make it worse too often to me. They don't have the tools to consistently overcome bad down and distances and in some cases are major contributors to finding themselves in those situations. Milroe is the wild card to me. He has special gifts to potentially overcome mistakes. It's so hard to separate him from the rest of the team/situation, though. The 23 tape and game against Georgia are so much better than the late stuff this season. I still like Dart as a developmental guy, but first round seems really rich. Sanders/Shough I just don't think the juice is worth the squeeze. If I needed a backup and that's all I expected, sure. Trying to (eventually) win in the playoffs? Not guys I'd pick.

j/c…

Schefter echoing what Todd McShay said on his podcast two or three episodes in that the Browns want Cam Ward.

Speak it into existence!

I don't think the problem is necessarily in identifying so much as just the scarcity in general. Being able to succeed against the caliber of athlete in the NFL and being able to decipher the complexity of schemes to go along with that is just really rare. Have to have the total package or something so special it can overcome a deficiency.

You could see the special in Mahomes. You could see it in Allen. You could see it in Lamar.

I think the only two that have special traits are Ward and Milroe. I'm not sure if they are enough to overcome the deficiencies. I don't think the others are the total packages.

Maybe you can find a Purdy and survive with special playmakers around him, but I think the deficiencies inevitably show up. Margin for error is so small going this route. It's not worth a premium investment to me. If the playmakers around him get dinged up, he's not overcoming it. If the D is in the right call against your play, he's not beating it with his arm anyway.

The shortage is real. Chances are most of these guys won't work out. None of them could end up working out. It's why I don't want to "take a shot" on guys I don't believe in. Especially high. Take a shot day 3.

There's sort of the same logic as "Don't go grocery shopping hungry." Don't go QB hunting when you don't have one. You'll talk yourself into something not good for you. I feel like a lot of "analysts" went hunting this year because they needed QBs to talk about.

I do appreciate your perspective, but wonder if you don't give enough credence to the negatives/allow too much wiggle for growth/progression. I think you focus on the mechanics a lot more than I do. For me, great mechanics are almost a negative, as I feel like they almost put a cap on how much growth you can get. They're not bad, but if you don't have "a great arm" and your mechanics are already honed. You kind of are what you are as a thrower of the football. The Sanders and Shoughs feel like they are already closer to their ceilings to me. And that's not a worth missing on Carter/Hunter ceiling to me.

Great college QBs don't necessarily make great NFL QBs. Sanders and Shough are good/"great" college QBs. I'm not convinced they translate so well to the next level. Steelers want to take either of them in the first, I'm all for it. Same for Dart. Let them experience the growing pains and limitations.

Not a fan of Mike Tomlin checking in on Milroe after his pro day, though. After watching us get torched by Taysom Hill, the idea of Milroe in Pitt would be nightmare inducing.

I think the "of this year's QB class" does a lot of work in that video, and might not be quite the ringing endorsement it seems at first blush. Got to keep the hope alive for QB needy teams, though.

This is the part that I have trouble reconciling with you being willing to take some guys early. I see more chaos in the chaos than calm with some. They might flash calm in highlights, but watching full games the what are you doing plays were too frequent.

This article kind of has a similar view of Sanders as me (I'm probably slightly lower): link

I knew that was going to happen. In almost all cases Milroe is the fastest player on the field. It shows in numbers like that and more importantly it shows on the game tape.

Abdul Carter is the best player in this draft. If we really like Ward and he’s there at 2 I would imagine we would take him. However if the Titans take Ward I would seriously consider taking Carter at 2 then maybe we could trade up later to take Dart or someone else. Honestly, after Ward, Sanders and Dart I don’t think any other QB in this draft should be taken earlier than the 4th round. If this was a talented QB draft only Ward would be taken in the first and probably a late first at that. JMO

Good points. Greg Cosell knows more than we do about this draft and I agree he’s quite knowledgeable. I always like to hear what he has to say. Maybe we can get Slough with our 2 round pick or trade up to late 1st if our FO likes him. That we don’t know. I’d still like AC with our first. Myles and him would make our secondary look even better and our pass rush WOW!!!!

Another scenario I thought of would be if Ward was taken first and we had no intention of taking a QB at 2 we could trade down with the Giants so they could draft Sanders if they’re interested and pick up some more draft capital. Lots of ways to go

I would love a guaranteed playmaker at 2. I'm more risk-adverse to taking a QB that high....

But I acknowledge that that necessitates getting really aggressive with what probably should be our next pick (aggressively moving up to ensure we get the rookie QB we want).

Why waste my time? Bull has pointed out several reason why these QB's are certainly not blue chip prospects. So have many people. You selectively listen to who says the things you want to hear and reject the rest. Have at it. Keep promoting the Browns spend the #2 draft pick an a QB with low odds of success. That's worked out so well for us thus far. The people you mention have a job to do. Work up excitement for the draft. Get hits on their web sites. Get viewers to watch their shows. And they suck people in by doing just that.

As are you. You're so focused on "QB or bust" you can't see the forest for the trees. That's not a me issue. I hope this FO isn't approaching the QB situation the same way you are or we're in for another three to four years of hell.

I'm going to let this go. It's obvious you are so emotionally invested in your position that nothing will change it. I would hate to feel in any way responsible for the possible heath impact this may have on you at your age. "group think" is just a derogatory term for saying that the vast majority of experts agree with my take on this QB class. Please do some meditation or whatever method you use to calm down.

What the experts are saying is there are no Peyton Manning, Joe Burrow, Trevor Lawrence types in this draft. The can't miss type players. The top-level QBs in this class are all Baker Mayfield types. They see them as solid pro's but not sure-fire homerun picks. Joe Montana was a 3rd round pick, and he would fall under this same microscope. What Joe had cannot be measured only observed. Why are they not can't miss types? They are 6'2 and not 6'4. No one is saying Ward, Sanders, Dart, or Shough will be busts they are saying they do not have the God given height, size, arm strength, or etc... so each have risks and cannot be considered can't miss prospects. The draft world is a different world than Sundays on the field. Mahomes would have been considered the same kind of prospect as these 2025 draft class prospects. What a coach and GM has to do is determine who has "it" between the ears and enough god given talent to overcome what experts think like Mahomes and Montana did. If someone thought Baker Mayfield was a good 1st overall pick, they should have no issue if the Browns take a QB #2. They will be same kind of prospect.

Nest year pro typical QBs like Penn State's Drew Aller and Miami QB Ex Georgia QB Carson Beck, Nico from Tennessee, LSU QB Nussmeier are coming out. Some are hoping Manning comes out, but I don't believe he will. All Manning's stay 4 years in college. If he was coming out after 3, he would have transferred last year.

Do those names from college inspire more faith in drafting a QB? Only if prototypical QBs are what you are looking for.

The odds go down with such QB's. Is that what you promote too? Drafting another Baker Mayfield or less?

Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round too. The exception to the rule is not the rule.

Can't pass on all QB's because said experts don't think they're Peyton Manning. Those same experts thought Jamarcus Russell was can't miss.

There's a difference between passing on them and drafting them at #2. You try to get a blue chip player at #2.

In 2017 we took Myles Garrett a sure fire blue chip player. A future hall of famer. The Chiefs took a prospect similar to the QB's we are discussing in this years draft, They drafted a future hall of famer with multiple super bowl rings. In 2025 would you draft Patrick Mahomes or Myles Garrett if you went back in time knowing what you know now.

Same thing could easily happen this year. In 7 years, Abdul Carter could have 100 sacks and be a future hall of famer no doubt he is a blue chipper. What if Sanders has that read the defense mind to be the next Mahomes. I'm not saying he will be just saying if you were in the interviews with him and he seems to get it. Do you still take the blue chipper? A QB that has the ability to make everyone else better will trump the blue-chip prospect every time.

I'm very clam. As I told you I'm finished discussing this with you. A word to the wise should be sufficient.

No, it couldn't "easily happen". That's not how any of this has ever worked. Not long ago I posted the statistics on successfully drafting QB's and the odds of success in the first round. Your conclusion is based on your feelings rather than the data.

and yet, 25 out of the 32 NFL teams' starting QB was a 1st round draft pick.

For the 26 superbowls in this century
(the 1999 season played it's superbowl in 2000)

The winning Qb's and the rounds they were drafted in:

Round 1
Mahomes
Stafford
Wentz
P Manning
E Manning
Flacco
Dilfer
Rodgers
Roethlisberger

Round 2
Hurtz
Brees

Round 3 or greater
Tom Brady
Russell Wilson
Brad Johnson
Kurt Warner


That is 15 superbowl winning Qb's
1st round => 9 (60%)
2nd round => 2 (13%)
Round 3+ => 4 (27%)