"Unfortunately this year the QB iron looks tepid (frosted over probably goes too far) to me. A bunch of developmental guys with flaws"
No offense but that is your opinion and not a proven fact. You don't know and neither does anyone else.
In a few years we could look back at this class and find out "wow we were so wrong."
Until we solve the quarterback position nothing will happen.
Yes, it is my opinion, after watching a ton of games of all of them. What are your opinions of them? Do you think any of them don't have flaws? Cam Ward is the best of the bunch according to both myself and the current consensus, but he still requires a good bit of projection. Personally, if you're projecting what a guy that has started 57 college games over 5 seasons (19 at Incarnate Word [6 as a true frosh, essentially every game since] don't show up on sports-reference.com- can see on uiwcardinals.com [link]) could be more than what he is now, that's somewhat problematic to me. His bad habits are deeply ingrained at this point. Were his numbers impressive? Sure. Do they translate? I have serious doubts. I think the flaws will be magnified and what worked well against a weak college schedule will not be nearly as effective against Pros. If we take him, he won't be on an offensive juggernaut with his guys being better than their guys at every position, every game he plays like he saw this year at Miami. Miami boosters were balling in the NIL game (at least on offense.) ACC defenses were not good this year, and he didn't even play Clemson or SMU which were the top two teams in the conference. He didn't even play BC, which might have the highest drafted defensive player in the conference (Donovan Ezeiruaku.)
If we get the QB position wrong, something very bad will happen. Miss on potential superstars because we "needed" a QB, everyone will get fired, massive roster turnover, changed systems, waste our good players primes. Negativity will build up further.
Take guys that look like they'll be good pros. Don't take fun college players with nice stats that have questions at the position with the biggest bust rate for your team. Being Johnny Football works in college. In the league you need to be able to operate in muddy pockets. You can't whirling dervish for 10 seconds while holding the ball away from your body with one hand then throw against your body into traffic and have your WR come down with it consistently. If you put it on the back hip of wide open receivers and backs in college, I have a hard time trusting you'll be able to consistently put it in the perfect spot against tight windows. His guys made plays for him- that's good. In the NFL, those throws tend to end up in the hands of the defense.
There's a non-zero chance he can capture some Mahomes/Caleb Williams magic with houdini escapes, but I don't think he's as accurate of a thrower in general or as athletic as Caleb or able to access the crazy arm angles while maintaining accuracy as Mahomes. Non-zero, but I think closer to zero than 100. Honestly, I'd place the likelihood on it looking a lot like Watson. What worked against the AFC South isn't sustainable in the AFC North. After wasting 3 first rounders on Watson, the last thing I want to do is spend another for similar results. Defenses have kind of figured out how to counter that style of play.
Our offense has looked the best with a QB on time and in rhythm. Ad-libbing has not ended well. Too many athletes on D in the NFL lurking to obliterate you, especially if you're not an explosive athlete yourself.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
The experts say this is a weak draft class. Just like 2017 was supposed to be a weak draft class. The same experts felt Mitch Trubisky was better than Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes went 10th. I remember the debate was should the Browns draft Myles Garret or Mitch Trubisky. Well Dorsey made the right decision there. But hindsight the decision should have been Myles Garrett or Patrick Mahomes. Dorsey missed in that regard and so did the draft experts and every team that picked 1 thru 9 in that draft.
Bottom line is draft experts are wrong as much as they are right. If Ward or Sanders turns into a franchise QB the experts will be wrong again. If they both do or if someone ranked below them does, then the experts will be wrong again. The experts look for un-coachable intangibles like size, arm strength, accuracy, foot speed, hand size, pocket presence, etc... What they cannot measure is heart and ability to read defenses quickly. College defenses are nowhere near as fast and as complex as even the worst pro defense and that is the hardest area to judge but probably the most important. How quickly and decisively can the QB process what they are seeing and knowledge of where the ball should go.
Romans 10:9 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."
The experts also look at film. Lots and lots of film. You are correct that they don't always get it right. What is hard to measure is how well a kid can learn moving forward. Will a kid be able to learn to process information fast enough for the pro game? Will they be able to learn an NFL system?
What they can do is see where they are now. The further along a college QB is the better your odds. Everything else is simply guesswork and you better hope you get the guesswork right. Far more often than not teams don't get the guesswork right although people can find the exceptions where some teams have such as you have done.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The experts say this is a weak draft class. Just like 2017 was supposed to be a weak draft class. The same experts felt Mitch Trubisky was better than Patrick Mahomes. Mahomes went 10th. I remember the debate was should the Browns draft Myles Garret or Mitch Trubisky. Well Dorsey made the right decision there. But hindsight the decision should have been Myles Garrett or Patrick Mahomes. Dorsey missed in that regard and so did the draft experts and every team that picked 1 thru 9 in that draft.
Bottom line is draft experts are wrong as much as they are right. If Ward or Sanders turns into a franchise QB the experts will be wrong again. If they both do or if someone ranked below them does, then the experts will be wrong again. The experts look for un-coachable intangibles like size, arm strength, accuracy, foot speed, hand size, pocket presence, etc... What they cannot measure is heart and ability to read defenses quickly. College defenses are nowhere near as fast and as complex as even the worst pro defense and that is the hardest area to judge but probably the most important. How quickly and decisively can the QB process what they are seeing and knowledge of where the ball should go.
To me the difference was when I watched more of Mahomes' throws the sense was "holy cow that's not human!" Watching Ward there were more "He's not getting away with that in the NFL" throws. Ward had good college throws, but not really consistent there's nothing anyone could have done to stop that throws (perfect coverage, perfect placement.) Throw in the talent deficit Pat had to overcome. I think freshman Terrence Steele was the only OL on that team that eventually got a shot in the NFL, I'm not even sure he played in 2016. For Miami, every starting skill player (Damien Martinez, running back; Sam Brown Jr., wide receiver; Jacolby George, wide receiver; Xavier Restrepo, wide receiver; Elijah Arroyo, tight end*; Jalen Rivers, tackle/guard) will be at the combine and appears likely to be drafted. Plus, Mahomes sat a full year after being drafted.
Edit: Mahomes did have his he's not getting away with that throws, too, but the wows outweighed them in my overall impression. For Ward, the lasting impression is the he's not getting away with that, so far for me. Maybe I'm docking too many points (more gave Mahomes than really taking away here) for the not having to carry his team on Ward's part/being "carried"/supported "optimally", but that's where I'm at.
Last edited by Bull_Dawg; 02/27/2502:46 PM.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
The NFL has proven that teams are 50/50 in evaluation of college quarterback prospects.
They are professional that not only look at tape. They look at everything they can. They work them out. They talk to others who have direct knowledge. They invest a fortune in research alone.
The NFL has proven that teams are 50/50 in evaluation of college quarterback prospects.
They are professional that not only look at tape. They look at everything they can. They work them out. They talk to others who have direct knowledge. They invest a fortune in research alone.
After all that the success rate is 50%.
I get what you are saying. I don't think the issue is in evaluation, though. I think the problems come in the projection aspect. (Bad) Teams over estimate what they can fix/change. They underestimate the impact of fit and the surrounding environment. If there are things to fix, the fit isn't great, and the surrounding environment leaves a lot to be desired, that 50% goes down a lot. That seems to be the situation for us this year to me. If there are overwhelming physical traits, maybe you bet on fixing more, because the what you are left with if you can't fix anything can still be pretty valuable. I don't see that at the alleged top here.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
50% huh? Are you sure about that? Maybe your definition of success differs from most......
How successful are quarterbacks drafted in Round 1?
Here are the numbers since 2010, and they are not encouraging
With the New York Giants seemingly considering selecting a quarterback in the 2024 NFL Draft, we have often talked about the hit rate, the percentage of time NFL teams get it right when drafting a quarterback in Round 1, being somewhere between 30-40%. Well, let’s show the work.
Below, you will find a year-by-year list of quarterbacks drafted in Round 1 since 2010. There have been 43. Bill Barnwell of ESPN recently did a historical look of his own at quarterback hits and misses in the draft and provided a tiered grading system for breaking down the success or failure level of each pick.
I liked it and have adopted it, with my own judgment for which category each selected quarterback falls into.
Here is how Barnwell tiered the quarterbacks:
Hall of Famers are players who have either already made it to the Hall of Fame or have better than a 50/50 chance of making it to Canton someday.
Franchise quarterbacks are players who locked down their team’s primary job and played at a Pro Bowl level for a significant period of time, stretching well beyond their rookie deal, even if they aren’t going to be a Hall of Famer one day.
Solid starters are quarterbacks who were regulars for their teams without ever really challenging the upper echelon of the position, either because of a lack of ceiling, injury or other factors. These players might or might not have earned a second deal with their teams.
Low-end pro careers would include passers who bounced around the NFL as borderline starters or high-end backups without locking down a starting job for a significant period of time. Again, injuries could factor in here.
Disappointments are players who don’t fit into any of the above categories. They might have never earned significant NFL playing time, like Paxton Lynch, or struggled before ending their NFL career quickly, like Johnny Manziel. Teams might consider a solid starter or a low-end pro career as a disappointment depending on where they were drafted, but this group of players basically returned nil value given that it included all first-rounders.
I made one adjustment. I have listed the 2023 quarterback class in my breakdown, and added an ‘incomplete’ category for Bryce Young and Anthony Richardson. It’s too early to tell where they will land. I did put C.J. Stroud in the ‘franchise’ category.
By the way, you may not agree but using Barnwell’s definition — regular starter for one team who got a second contract — I had no choice but to score Daniel Jones as a solid starter.
Round 1 QBs
2010
No. 1 — Sam Bradford (St. Louis Rams) No. 25 — Tim Tebow (Denver Broncos)
Future Hall of Famers: 0 Franchise QBs: 0 Solid starters: 0 Low-end pro careers: 1 Disappointments: 1
Future Hall of Famers: 1 Franchise QBs: Solid starters: 1 Low-end pro careers: 0 Disappointments: 1
2018
No. 1 — Baker Mayfield (Cleveland Browns) No. 3 — Sam Darnold (New York Jets) No. 7 — Josh Allen (Buffalo Bills) No. 10 — Josh Rosen (Arizona Cardinals) No. 32 — Lamar Jackson (Baltimore Ravens)
Future Hall of Famers: 2 Franchise QBs: Solid starters: 0 Low-end pro careers: 1 Disappointments: 2
2019
No. 1 — Kyler Murray (Arizona Cardinals) No. 6 — Daniel Jones (New York Giants) No. 15 — Dwayne Haskins (Washington)
Future Hall of Famers: 0 Franchise QBs: 0 Solid starters: 2 Low-end pro careers: 0 Disappointments: 1
2020
No. 1 — Joe Burrow (Cincinnati Bengals) No. 5 — Tua Tagovailoa (Miami Dolphins) No. 6 — Justin Herbert (Los Angeles Chargers) No. 26 — Jordan Love (Green Bay Packers)
Future Hall of Famers: 0 Franchise QBs: 4 Solid starters: 0 Low-end pro careers: 0 Disappointments: 0
2021
No. 1 — Trevor Lawrence (Jacksonville Jaguars) No. 2 — Zach Wilson (New York Jets) No. 3 — Trey Lance (San Francisco 49ers) No. 11 — Justin Fields (Chicago Bears) No. 15 — Mac Jones (New England Patriots)
Future Hall of Famers: 0 Franchise QBs: 0 Solid starters: 1 Low-end pro careers: 1 Disappointments: 3
2022
No. 20 — Kenny Pickett (Pittsburgh Steelers)
Future Hall of Famers: 0 Franchise QBs: 0 Solid starters: 0 Low-end pro careers: 0 Disappointments: 1
2023
No. 1 — Bryce Young (Carolina Panthers) No. 2 — C.J. Stroud (Houston Texans) No. 4 — Anthony Richardson (Indianapolis Colts) Follow The Crown Royal Rig Sponsored By Crown Royal Look alive NFL fans! The Crown Royal Rig is on its way, and it’s deliver... Learn more
Future Hall of Famers: 0 Franchise QBs: 1 Solid starters: 0 Low-end pro careers: 0 Disappointments: 0 Incomplete: 2 Totals
Future Hall of Famers: 3 Franchise QBs: 7 Solid starters: 6 Low-end pro careers: 7 Disappointments: 18 Incomplete: 2
That’s 16 out of 43 drafted quarterbacks currently in the ‘solid starter’ or above category, a hit rate of 37.2%. If you are looking for Hall of Fame or absolute franchise quarterback as your standard, that’s 10 of 43, or 23.3%.
The disappointments category has 18 names or 41.8%. Combine that with the seven quarterbacks in the ‘low-end’ category and that is 58.1% who did not or have not yet given teams what they hoped to get out of a first-round quarterback.
This means the historical expectation would be that if five quarterbacks are taken in Round 1, only two will have careers justifying the draft capital used on them.
Barnwell summed up what teams needing or wanting a quarterback should do, and what they should expect, this way:
In the big picture, what we think of as the typical first-round quarterback is a lot more impressive than what teams actually project to land, especially after adjusting for where they’re being selected. As we approach the 2024 draft and what might be an unprecedented run of quarterbacks from Nos. 1 to 4, history tells us it would be a pleasant surprise if two of them turned into franchise-caliber passers. We’re more likely to see two players who wash out of the league than two future Hall of Famers.
And yet, at the same time, knowing history shouldn’t stop teams from drafting quarterbacks. Taking a quarterback in Round 1 is more valuable now than it has ever been, arguably, in the history of the game. If the Bears, Commanders, Patriots or any of the other teams linked to signal-callers have a quarterback they love in the first round, they should do what they need to do to land them. Just have a healthy expectation for what might happen next.
I can’t argue. If you have a need and a chance, you have to take the swing. Odds are, though, that you are going to get it wrong.
Now you can disagree with some of these rankings on the QB's. I know that I certainly disagree with some of them myself. But please explain how anyone could turn that list into a 50% success rate/
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
This is why I don't really have Mason Graham in consideration for our first pick. Even if we traded down. That "pod" of players at that position feels pretty big.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
For a group that crunches numbers, I'm surprised by their logic. I also kind of question whether or not they're being serious, or whether they're just putting out content.
Gambling on the 8% chance sounds like a horrible idea to me. If I believed in the guy, that'd be different. Big arms are lovely. Repeating the same bad decisions with that much experience is troublesome. The mental load only goes up at the next level.
Hitting wide open receivers down the field in highlights looks great. They're not going to be wide open anywhere near as often in the NFL. It's what you do when the read isn't obvious that separates QBs to me. Dancing around until after somebody gets wide open isn't a reliable answer.
The opportunity cost of what you'd have to pass on is just too much to me.
Blue chipper at the top and go the Hurts/Purdy route at QB. You don't have to draft the QB at the top, you have to find the best fit for the best value.
Ward was pretty much running a Watson-esque, track meet offense. Let your fast guys run away from their slower guys. There won't really be that disparity at the next level, and the rest of our team isn't built that way. The argument that he's good enough to completely change how he plays with a guy that has played 57 college starts is a pretty big leap of faith to me. I don't think he's good enough to change our offense for.
I should probably go back more to the Washington State tape. See what he does without the Olympic team around him. Maybe it will lessen my concerns. Passing on guys that look like they could be All-Pros for guys that have Weeden level bad decisions on this season's tape after being long time starters is just hard for me to justify.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
We have our opinions about players but we don't make decisions.
Will our FO get this right?
IMO there are three legit quarterback prospects. Ward, Sanders, Dart.
Stefanski, Rees, Musgrave and Berry have to decide if any of these guys carries a top 15 grade overall in this draft.
If so then need makes the decision easy. When the grade goes below that then you should begin considering other options. If you get to the point where nobody carries a first round grade. Then go to the next option of BPA.
The question again is will the FO get this right?
I am probably in the minority but I think they will.
We have our opinions about players but we don't make decisions.
Will our FO get this right?
IMO there are three legit quarterback prospects. Ward, Sanders, Dart.
Stefanski, Rees, Musgrave and Berry have to decide if any of these guys carries a top 15 grade overall in this draft.
If so then need makes the decision easy. When the grade goes below that then you should begin considering other options. If you get to the point where nobody carries a first round grade. Then go to the next option of BPA.
The question again is will the FO get this right?
I am probably in the minority but I think they will.
I have no idea what they are doing. Stefanski's "I think the QB class is good throughout the draft" has me a little stumped. I don't think you say that if you are trying to trade out. I also don't think you take a QB at two if it is true. Was it calculated? If so, why? Or is Stefanski just a nice guy that will talk up everybody?
I think the "in this draft" approach with top 15 is a somewhat short-sighted way to go about it. I think you have to look at where you think they'll stack up against the NFL. If you have two guys at the top of the draft that look like sure fire great pros, then a giant gap in the grades, It's not the same as the next guy also being similarly, but only a tiny bit less, great. In this draft, I think it's a big drop off from the top, then a big group of close together. I think Ward and Dart are closer together than Ward and Hunter/Carter. I think Ward and Milroe are closer together.
I'm out on Sanders. He's the coach's kid that got put in over better players because he was the kid of the coach. The arm is just not good enough. I think it'd literally be 32 out of 32 behind Purdy and Bryce Young if he was our starter. He's got stuff to like, but ultimately I just don't think he can fit it in tight windows consistently enough. He can throw it and have his receiver make crazy contested catches in college, but the margin for error is so much smaller at the next level.
That's what I saw on tape and his passing on the combine throwing leads me to believe he didn't want the league seeing him side by side with the less heralded QBs and still coming away below. Looking less than Cam Ward's arm is one thing. Looking less than Ewers/Gabriel/the staffer tossing to them another.
I think they could get it right. I'm horrified they won't.
Edit: I'm hoping they're indirectly talking up Sanders because they want Hunter and don't want to anger Deion. Quite possibly wishful thinking.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I first thought he was wearing a Browns OBJ jersey before it fully processed what I was looking at. I'm with you. Apparently my instincts think it would end badly as well.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
What is said at a mic at this time of year doesn't count.
I don't trust Berry. However, I do trust KS, TR and Musgrave to know the quarterbacks.
IMO Berry will go along. It will come out as we make collaborative decisions.
I do not know what their true opinion is or, which guy they favor.
Dart really intrigues me. When I hear someone start with "well the Lane Kiffin offense."
I lose it. That is total BS and is a lazy cop out. You play the position no matter the offense.
Watching Dart is not complicated. His skills and his reputation as a leader translates to the NFL.
I will upchuck if he is drafted by the Steelers.
In some ways I like him over both Sanders and Ward.
However, Ward IMO has the highest upside if he reaches his potential. He has things to clean up but that can be done.
Honestly, I think Kevin is the more go along of the two. Berry is, too, but Kevin moreso. I think Berry is the more likely to initiate the discussion and Kevin will follow along. I'm just hoping Haslam doesn't start the ball rolling and they both go along for the ride.
My trust on anyone on the Browns view on QBs isn't very high. It doesn't mean I don't think they can coach it/be successful. The picking it, I have concerns.
I don't think Dart is a great fit for us or the Steelers. Accuracy drops a lot as you go down the field. Can you fix it? Maybe. Bet on it in the first round? Not me. I'd bet on Tre Harris before him. I do like him better than Sanders. I think he needs some runway though. I don't think he'd get it here. I don't think Haslam would let them sit him for the year.
Which skills translate? His leadership skills might translate, the reputation will have to be re-earned. Leadership in the NFL is weird. It's got to be supported on the field. Watson was allegedly a great leader at Clemson.
Watching isn't complicated. Interpreting and projecting what you saw is. If it wasn't, teams wouldn't miss so often.
I'd say get ready to puke, but I'm seeing them connected to Egbuka a lot and that makes more sense for them to me.
I think it could be a Malik Willis situation where they're talking about him as a 1st rounder and he goes in the 3rd.
I wouldn't really be surprised if Sanders had a Will Levis like "fall."
Teams with established QBs have a vested interest in "bad" QBs going early.
It's determining if it's can, could, or will with Ward. He has potential, but there's also a chance the right phrase is can't or will not (be done.) Maybe Anthony Richardson pans out, but it's not looking good so far. Probably not the best comparison. The question I can't quite settle on the answer to with Ward is "Is he a great QB? Or is he just a great thrower?"
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Stefanski follows the corporate structure just as his job title describes. In the pecking order he works under the GM. The decisions a GM make are not under the purview of the HC. A GM is supposed to be talented at what his job is which is totally different from what the HC's job is.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Stefanski follows the corporate structure just as his job title describes. In the pecking order he works under the GM. The decisions a GM make are not under the purview of the HC. A GM is supposed to be talented at what his job is which is totally different from what the HC's job is.
I could probably be talked into Ward after watching some 2023 games. Think I might have been underestimating the athleticism since he didn't need to use it as much in Miami. Definitely caught some Lamar Jackson vibes. Probably not quite as electric with his legs, but closer than I had been thinking. Might not have given enough leeway for new offense, new targets as far as placement this season. Also think some of the decisionmaking/seeing it concerns might be more arm arrogance/what won't work in the NFL did against his opponents, and his defense was pretty bad so he may have kind of felt forced to push the envelope. Still some concerns, but more willing to potentially bet.
Even if the concerns don't all get cleaned up, Stefanski can, somewhere on the spectrum of possibly to probably, still win with him.
Ward or Hunter. Whichever one is there, let's go. If both, "tie" (Factoring in positional value and our need) probably goes to the QB.
Probably not willing/eager to trade up because there are guys I like later. If it's like a 4th, maybe. How far down is Tennessee willing to go? If they're willing to move.
Last edited by Bull_Dawg; 02/28/2506:48 PM. Reason: ...Buffalo 3 and Detroit 5th? Hmmmmmmmmm.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Professional evaluators have proven to be right about 50% of the time.
Draft experts are not any better and fans know even less.
The Browns need a quarterback. There is no real consensus but Ward seems to have an edge.
What the Titans will do is unknown. We may have the first pick at the quarterbacks.
At worst we have the second choice of all the quarterbacks who entered the draft.
I could be wrong but I think they will draft a quarterback at two.
The perfect example of this was the year we drafted Baker. One draft reporter said of the 7-8 teams he spoke they almost all had a different #1 that but interestingly they had a consensus #2. THat #2 was Josh Rosen who was out of the league in a few years. Many people say if you need a QB you must draft one, no matter where you pick. This makes no sense to me. In a weak class that you have no confidence the guy can play, why pick one just to pick one?
If the Browns have a strong preference between Sanders and Ward should they try to move up?
Yes IMO. I cannot say the Titans would consider that. The Browns would not be giving up much to make the move. Maybe a fourth.
If however the Titans get offers from say the Jets or Raiders and want to trade down then we are out.
If the Titans want to draft a QB we have to hope they like the other guy.
Ideally they draft Hunter or Carter.
We then draft our first choice.
Ward is growing on me. I like his demeanor. He has some dawg in him.
Every time I listen to Dart. I like the guy. I just do.
Sanders is a harder read. I have no problem with him saying he has changed programs before and can do it again. You want the guy to have that belief. There are some things I really like about Sanders.
I will accept any of those guys if we draft them.
I don't see a big difference although I give the edge to Ward.
Ward is growing on me. I like his demeanor. He has some dawg in him.
Every time I listen to Dart. I like the guy. I just do.
Sanders is a harder read. I have no problem with him saying he has changed programs before and can do it again. You want the guy to have that belief. There are some things I really like about Sanders.
I will accept any of those guys if we draft them.
I don't see a big difference although I give the edge to Ward.
I'm starting to think the difference is bigger than I was thinking.
It'd be easier to explain with a chart than words. I'm now thinking about it as more of a range of potential outcomes for each guy. I think Ward's floor is a lot higher than I had been thinking and his ceiling is still way up there. I think the floors on the other guys are much, much lower.
I think Sanders ceiling is the lowest of those 3 mentioned. For me, he's out of the conversation. The floor isn't enough for me to gamble on a ceiling that still leaves a lot to be desired
I think Milroe actually has the ceiling closest to Ward, but probably a lower floor than Dart.
I think Dart has a lower floor than Sanders, and a lower ceiling than Ward/Milroe.
If I were just charting the midpoints of the ranges, Ward's would be significantly higher than the others.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
So your assertion is that Stefanski has the resources to do AB's job and not only coaches the team but also oversees and has equal say in the GM decisions? I'll just leave that there for all of the posters to see and watch who wishes to join you in fantasy land.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So your assertion is that Stefanski has the resources to do AB's job and not only coaches the team but also oversees and has equal say in the GM decisions? I'll just leave that there for all of the posters to see and watch who wishes to join you in fantasy land.
No my assertion was that Stefanski doesn't report to Berry as you said. You can make up a bogus assertion as to what you wish I had said, but people can go back and look at who said what.
I think they work together. I don't think one lords over the other. That's Haslam's spot in the org chart.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
So Ward's hands measured 9" and Milroe's 9 and 3/8". ...Interesting. I'd embed X posts but my phone's losing the existing type when I try to switch back and forth to copy both links over.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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