DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk 2025 NFL Draft Draft III

He went out an found them? Are you sue the Bills didn't recommend them? How do you think Allen found out about them?

It seems you may be jumping to some conclusions here with nothing to base them on.

Sure, you need a guy wiling to put in the work and Allen was certainly willing to do that. But whose idea this was and who was responsible for finding the right people to work with Allen is a total unknown.

Mayfield was a decent 1st round draft pick but a terrible 1st overall draft pick. he would be a very good pick to take where Denver selected Bo Nix. First overall Baker was a bust. That kind of a pick should have resulted in Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson and not an 11-15 record vs the AFC North and can get a team to the playoffs. He will never win a Superbowl unless he does it like Pickett did. Also, if he played in the North, he would struggle vs Lamar and Burrow to get to the playoffs.

While you may be correct that Baker did not live up to his #1 selection in the draft, calling him a bust at that selection is rather subjective and I don't find to be accurate. A bust at #1 one would be QB's like Bryce Young, JaMarcus Russell and Tim Couch.

Where Milroe goes in the draft is so interesting to me. I really wonder if he'd be a lot more hyped if he had played somewhere without the expectations of Alabama.

He's the potential "Josh Allen" this year to me.

Sanders is the "wasn't the right pick" guy to me. Doesn't mean he'll be awful, but the chance he ends up the best seems pretty low.

I don't think Baker is a bust. He is a decent Pro QB. Especially now that he is no longer a cancer in the locker room like he was here in Cleveland. He seems to have grown up some. But #1 overall you should expect Joe Burrow and not Bo Nix. I don't think you will ever win a Super Bowl with Baker but in a weak division you can win some Division Championships and make some playoff appurtenances like Tampa has done.

Watch Josh Allen in college. Look at the stats. He had a long way to go.

I feel like Milroe is more advanced as a passer than Josh was. Watch Milroe vs Georgia. That wheel route to Jam Miller was darn near perfect. He was 11/11 to start the game. His INT bounced off the TEs hands and was in a spot to sit him down and protect him. He had almost 500 yards of offense and 4TDs against the closest thing to an NFL defense in college football.

I don't know what happened the rest of the season, but his pass catchers seemed to forget how to play football at times. I don't know if Ryan Williams hit a rookie wall, but he looked lost. I don't know if it was information overload or what. Too many times over the year random non-Milroe players didn't seem to know what they were supposed to do and blew plays.

Milroe was not the problem at Alabama. I think it was more a coordination issue than a QB issue. Tried to install too many plays and not everybody on the field could handle it. The D giving up 40 points to teams like Vandy didn't help.

I'm not saying Milroe absolutely will have the same success. I think he has a better chance than Sanders to be a top 10 NFL QB. I don't know how high that chance is.

The Browns made the playoffs with Baker in 2020 and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't call the AFC North a weak division. I'm certainly not disagreeing with you about Baker not being a SB QB. I actually don't disagree with you that Baker needed to do some growing up and I think him being humbled help with that. But can you tell me how many QB's who were drafted at #1 have won SB's over the past 20 years?

I mean I get what you're saying. I really do. But considering it's rare that the #1 pick in the draft at QB wins SB's and some actually do bust I think Baker is at least average or above at that position in the grand scheme of things. Here is a list of #1 draft ick QB's since 2015..................

2024 Caleb Williams (USC) Chicago bears
2023 Bryce Young (Alabama) Carolina Panthers
2021 Trevor Lawrence (Clemson) Jacksonville Jaguars
2020 Joe Burrow (LSU) Cincinnati Bengals
2019 Kyler Murray (Oklahoma) Arizona Cardinals
2018 Baker Mayfield (Oklahoma) Cleveland Browns
2016 Jared Goff (California) St. Louis Rams
2015 Jameis Winston (Florida State) Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Which of these QB's have the potential to win a Super Bowl? Joe Burrow almost won one already. Jared Goff has been to one and has a chance to get to more with the Lions. I think Trevor Lawrence could win a Super Bowl someday. Too soon to tell with Young and Williams. My problem is when Baker was selected there were better QBs in his draft not selected. QB's that would have turned the Browns franchise around. When selected #1 overall QB's that is the expectation. Selecting a QB that will be the franchise QB. The face of the franchise for years to come. Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson were taken in the same round after Baker and really make that selection look bad. Sam Darnold had a season last year that Baker has never had. 14-3. Baker had a chance in Cleveland, and he ran off his own receivers. He ticked off the best player on the team when he spoke out against Myles Garrett for hitting the Steeler QB in the head with his own helmet. His coach got so tired of his antics that he went to the GM and said I cannot work with him any longer. That is not a #1 overall QB.

You do realize that in most cases the best QB's in a draft are not the QB selected first in the drafts, correct? That the vast majority of SB winners were not the first QB selected in their draft, right? That's my point. In the grand scheme of things Baker was an average #1 QB pick in the draft.

And picking #1 you should not expect average. And you should not expect the teams picking behind you to find their franchise QB and you find a spoiled rotten brat instead.

The real issue here is that drafting Mayfield wasn't the catastrophe some make it out to be. What you seem to have done is create some personal standard that is clearly not reflective of what the average results are over the rest of the league for decades now.

I agree that in a perfect world what you're saying would be correct. But look around you. I'm showing you the results based over time by 32 teams that reflect the imperfect reality that actually exists rather than a fantasy world I'm trying to create.

I like the idea of drafting best player available at 2 or a small trade down and then taking best player available with the 1st pick. Then coming back up into the 1st and selecting a QB so they will have 5 years control. Much like how the Ravens got Lamar Jackson.

I said that earlier. I would draft Carter or Hunter at 2 unless we’re sold on Cam Ward and he’s there at 2. If we don’t draft Ward at 2 I would try and trade up back into the first to take aQB we like. I don’t think Dart will drop to 33. Honestly I don’t think any QB in this draft is worth the second pick. To me Dart is as good as anyone and the kid Slough from Louisville is good too. JMO

This is what I'm hoping for. I do agree with you that if we don't go QB at 2, then we do have to be aggressive and trade up.

I heard an interesting trade scenario on a podcast that I listen to. Now, rarely do these speculated trade scenarios ever come to fruition, but it made sense fundamentally. The trade was the Browns moving back up in the first round at the #24 spot that the Vikings have to select Jaxon Dart. The premise here was that (1) the Browns would like to get a young QB, (2) Minnesota only has 4 draft picks this year and could look to accumulate more, (3) Browns have 10 draft picks and can stand to part ways with some, and (4) the Vikings' GM used to work for, and knows, the Browns organization well. I don't recall the assets given up to move up, but assume it would be their 2nd rounder (33) among others.

Anyways, I thought it was interesting.

Does anyone think that we would have to move in front of the Steelers to select Dart?

I agree with that. Dart is similar to Big Ben and i’m sure the Steelers see this too.

And that theory might hold water if one believes it was Callahan's decision to draft Burrows.

Levis was a second round pick who throws a lot of picks. He was a bad draft selection. I'm not sure how that impacts any of this.

Locally the opinions are they are leaning heavily towards Ward. As far as I can tell not only on the local level but the national level as well he is the top rated QB in this draft. Everyone here knows they are in desperate need of a franchise QB and it would take some unrealistic, over the top offer to get that pick away from the Titans. I happen to agree with both of those opinions.

He was also in Detroit with Stafford (Could see some of him in Ward, re: arm angles.) Had Derek Carr with the Raiders.

this is my dream scenario

I'm afraid we will screw around and draft Hunter at 2 or trade down...only to have the Steelers jump ahead of us in either scenario and take Dart.

It's a weak QB class...there are only (3) guys talked about as 1st Rd talent. Take him at #2 or miss him at #8.

I expect the smartest-guys-in-the-room to think that all they have to do is JUMP ahead of PIT at #21...as if PIT couldn't/wouldn't just as easily jump ahead to whatever is needed to get Dart.

If Bo Nix was worthy of the #12 in a 'good' QB draft class last year, Dart is worthy of #2 in a garbage QB draft class with several teams looking to draft a QB THIS year.

Dart is (3) years younger and (10) lbs heavier than Nix.

With the number of teams looking for a QB, we best not screw around and think we are the only ones who can make a move for their guy.

Suits meWSW. If we get too cute with this pick, we could come up empty. I like Dart. Don'y get all convoluted; get better. Liked his Combine work chai I saw. This seems to be a coachable kid IMO.

If we think Dart is the right guy for us then draft him at 2. I think we should do what Washington did years ago and draft another QB that at least has the physical tools to play at this level. We need to keep trying.