DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Ukraine: The Saga Concludes

Maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places, but I haven't heard anyone but Bernie really say anything worth hearing since Trump got going.

Maybe there is nothing they can say?

Looks like top conservatives want to save Ukraine from Trump too.

Or maybe it's best to just sit back and watch trump destroy his own poll numbers? That's what's happening so far. We keep hearing your talking heads say, "This is what they voted for" while trump voters keep screaming "We voted for the economy!" The more tantrums he throws the more his poll numbers sink.

Thats what I saw Carville say yesterday from a clip when he was on with hannity-“Let’s see when they put the Medicaid budget, when they put the tax — the $4.5 billion [or] trillion of tax cuts to wealthy people,” he said. “Just let the ball come to you. We don’t need to be aggressive now.”

Sadly there is no Carville of the newer generation. A no frills, straight shooting, pull no punches Democrat. The party needs more of those. He's probably not what the woke are looking for moving forward but if the Dems want to start winning more elections people like him are exactly what they need.

I love Carvel but he predicted Kamal to win. He had a brain fart and forgot his own mantra.

The United States of America just sided WITH Russia against the UN. This is absolutely disgusting. What is wrong with trump. He is a pathetic president.

https://thehill.com/homenews/5161380-ukraine-un-resolution/

USA votes with/for Russia alongside Syria and Nrh Korea.... And about 14 others.

Come on Trumptards let's see you spew some putin propaganda to defend this.

This should really be posted in political jokes thread.... But sadly it's real.

Not many can drink this much kool-aid.

That is absolutely unconscionable.

I’d be curious to see the Trump supporting take on why he refers to Zelenskyy as a dictator but refuses to do the same for Putin.

Or why the US joined sides with North Korea, China and Russia on the UN Resolution that acknowledged Russia as the aggressor in Ukraine.

Oh, that resolution passed by the way.

Oh, and Trump lied about how American aid compares to European aid and Macron had to jump in and correct him, live on TV. Great look.

Embarrassing is an understatement.

I know we dont always get it right as a country, but i really loved that the USA never hesitated to stand up to evil and tyranny around the world, even if it was just a sign of unity amongst our allies. that sense of pride in this nation is one of the few things i had left as a combat veteran after being disappointed by my fellow americans over and over again.


So to see a POTUS side with evil and tyranny is just..... I hope you trump supporters are happy. Cause i cant imagine any real patriot witnessing this and not feel like a total sellout.

this crap hit so hard, i feel like i did something wrong, and i didn't even vote for this crap. I feel responsible for why our country just threw all our allies under the bus.

It's funnny isn't it - or ironic - when Biden / Harris were running they were painted as unamerican and communist by Trump supporters .... here we are in a real life global situation with the bad guy (Russia) invading another sovereign country ... and Trump (and ergo all Trumptards) are okay with placating and bowing down low to Putin and joining sides with North Korea and China.

I mean it's mental and moral gynmastics to do that - but we've already seen one of the biggest Trumptards on the board spam Russian propoganda talking points about Ukraine. Trump has called a democratically elected ally a dictator and accused Ukraine of starting the war. . . literally the mind boggles.

They are who we thought they were. We warned them. It happened. And now rather than speak out against it, they either uphold it or remain silent. Hillary was right. Deplorable.

And trump wont call putin a dictator because he he "doesn't use those word lightly" so... what does that even mean? trump wants to be a dictator trump will spend the next 4 years trying to not leave office until he dies or passes it down to elon.

According to trump that means Zelenskyy is a dictator and Putin isn't. He called Zelenskyy a dictator but refuses to call Putin one. Republicans have officially elected the village idiot and a very dangerous one at that.

I think I'm with you. For me it started before Trump and certainly hasn't gotten any better.

Honestly, though, I think the other UN countries tried to throw "us" under the bus as much as "we" did them. Why try to pass the "resolution" now at the same time as "we" are trying to to have peace talks? It seems counterproductive to me. It's almost as if the UN wants this to drag on to further weaken Russia to their benefit, forget about Ukraine also getting wrecked. Now I'm not saying Trump is the good guy. We know he's not. But I think the European UN countries were as much trying to keep Trump from getting the mineral rights and continuing to use Ukraine as a stalking horse to continue pulling down Russia as anything. Trump, being Trump, decided to give them the finger. He wants his pot of "gold."

Evil and tyranny is, perhaps, a bit strong, (maybe not) but the political elite of most countries play games with other people's lives for their own benefit. While sellout isn't exactly what I'd call it, I certainly feel used. Why I joined and what the military was actually used to achieve, probably don't align as much as I had believed going in.

Yeah, handing parts of Ukraine over to Russia and barring them from joining NATO is something our allies shouldn't be concerned by. I mean we aren't, right? I suppose one can call that a game if they so choose. But that seems to be trivializing what's really going on here.

"further weaken Russia to their benefit"

OUR benefit. We were once part of the group that wants Russia as weak as possible.
This is a good thing the weaker they are the less destruction they can do.
Now trump just wants to make money with them and make them stronger.

Emboldening Putin only increases the odds that we will face something very similar to the U.S.S.R. in the future. Rewarding a dictator for invading a sovereign nation isn't a game. It's begging for more of the same. History has shown us what Neville Chamberlain appeasement diplomacy gets you. Still some people never learn.

"Our" benefit? Is that supposed to make me feel better about "our" using the Ukrainians?

What you allege Trump is doing could also be construed as to being towards "our" benefit.

Perhaps I just care more about the "to the detriment of whom" that a lot of people don't really seem to pay any attention to. Yes, war can be to "our benefit." To those dying on the ground, it probably seems a lot less beneficial.

War is ugly and horrible. We are not using Ukraine, we are helping them defend their country. You dont take the side of the country who started it and reward them just to make it end. Then make them a business partner so you can make more money when you get out of office.

War is ugly and horrible.

As far as not using Ukraine, you're welcome to keep telling yourself that if it helps you to sleep at night. "We" are making money. "We" haven't stopped anything. "We" helped perpetuate it.

"We," unfortunately, do reward bad guys if "we" see profit in it.

"We" are users and abusers. Bleh, "we."

We are the used and abused. The greatest scam ever is modern democracy. Convincing people that they are the state so that they profit when it profits. Hold out the carrot of you can become rich like us, while widening the gap in wealth. Artificially dividing the people with essentially meaningless labels to keep The People from uniting against them. Somehow they convince you that spending your money to kill people halfway around the world is somehow in your benefit. What benefit are you seeing?

The weight of thousands of Ukrainian (and other "pawns") souls on my conscience doesn't feel especially beneficial to me.

I see you have different take on what people that are fighting the invading Russian forces and their very existence as a nation should be portrayed as. We were there when they needed help the most to fight for their freedom and you label that as them being used by us. Somehow with your vivid imagination it seems that you think rewarding Russia by giving away parts of their country that Putin invaded and preventing them from joining NATO for their future security could possibly be twisted into into trump doing it for "our benefit". Hmmmm....

But somehow I'm not surprised by that.

Were we there? Is being an international arms dealer being there?

You may not be surprised, but neither are you comprehending. The "twisting" was my way of illustrating what a crock the making Russia weak was to "our benefit" was. Does Russia now have fewer nuclear capable subs somehow? Do they not still have enough nukes to destroy the world multiple times over? Were old tanks and APCs a threat to us across an ocean? While still of use in less developed areas, War has moved beyond that.

You don't know what you don't know, Pit. I don't care what stories your daddy or the voice in your head told you.

I know trumps main talking point is "stop the killing of millions over there". And like trump always does, he just lies about the numbers and he doesnt give a rats ass about anyone dying over there.

Here is what I do know. Russia using any part of the nuclear arsenal would only insure its own self destruction.


This is a typical response by those who have no legitimate response to the points that were raised. And yet once again I'm not surprised by that. And just remember, it's you who think you have made valid points that refused to respond and address my counterpoints that resorted to this childish level while you will later try to blame it on me. Somehow you think avoiding my posts and reacting in this way makes some kind of point? It does. Jut not the point you think it does.

#triggered

Ukraine, US in 'final stages' of agreeing minerals deal, Kyiv says

Feb 24 (Reuters) - Ukraine and the United States are in the final stages of negotiating a minerals deal considered central to ending Russia's three-year-old war in Ukraine, a senior Ukrainian official said on Monday.
Kyiv and Washington are both interested in U.S. access to Ukraine's undersoil riches, but President Volodymyr Zelenskiy has said any such deal must involve concrete security guarantees.
"Ukrainian and U.S. teams are in the final stages of negotiations regarding the minerals agreement. The negotiations have been very constructive, with nearly all key details finalized," deputy prime minister Olha Stefanishyna wrote on X.

"We hope both US and UA leaders might sign and endorse it in Washington (at) the soonest to showcase our commitment for decades to come."
Trump has said Ukraine should give the U.S. $500 billion in critical raw materials as payback for aid which Kyiv has already received from the previous Joe Biden administration.
Zelenskiy said this week Washington had supplied his country with $67 billion in weapons and $31.5 billion in direct budget support, and that he will not acknowledge Biden-supplied aid as loan.

Zelenskiy refused to sign an initial draft deal earlier this month, sparking frustration in the White House. Senior Trump administration officials said on Sunday they expected an agreement would be signed this week.

https://www.reuters.com/world/ukraine-us-final-stages-agreeing-minerals-deal-kyiv-says-2025-02-24/

Could also mean our destruction.

Good try, but I posted a paragraph of "legitimate response" which you conveniently pretend doesn't exist.

Yes, you are typically triggered again and going through the same song and dance of make believing that things that make you look like an idiot never happened.

If you paid someone to dismantle the US from the inside, it would look exactly like this.

Let's break this down shall we?



We were there. There to give them the ability to fight Russia with arms. Something they never could have done on their own without the help of us and European allies. Yet in your world you call helping them fight for their freedom as being "arms dealers".


We also have enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world many times over. And as I stated, Russia knows using any of their nuclear weapons would result in their own destruction. In your simplistic viewpoint all you are doing is isolating this into trying to make it sound as if the only way to weaken Russia is to lessen it's nuclear stockpile. You seem to indicate that further damaging their economy and getting them so desperate for conventional weapons they needed help from N. Korea to get those weapons. Sorry to inform you but those are other ways to weaken Russia.


And then of course there is this. An unhinged rant by someone on the edge of totally losing it.

And then there's everything I have in bold which you avoided like the plague. None of which was addressed.

So "we" had troops bleed and die there? Or were "we" there "in spirit"? (AKA not really there.) I call giving them weapons, but not troops, and now expecting them to sign over mineral rights in exchange effectively being an arms dealer, yes.

Your myopic viewpoint has no bearing on mine. Nowhere did I say anything about the "only" anything. Yes, there are a multitude of other ways to weaken Russia. I was sticking to the one that is actually rooted in what is actually happening, and how what we're told and the reality don't necessarily line up. But feel free to keep insisting some vague "we" are there.

Unhinged rant? Or tired acknowledgement of how any discussion with you goes and how I feel about that.

Just because you ignore how I respond to something, doesn't mean I ignored it. Alas, I'm back to avoiding you like the plague. One can't come to an understanding with someone that only listens to the voice in their head.

I know trumps main talking point is "stop the killing of millions over there". And like trump always does, he just lies about the numbers and he doesnt give a rats ass about anyone dying over there.

I recommend the ignore feature. Countless others have used it with him and I suggest following suit.

I'd hope I'd pay someone more competent/discrete, if I had that kind of money. But, yes, a tantrum throwing cabal of maladjusted man-children can cause plenty of damage.

Unfortunately, using the feature is easier than actually ignoring the people you use the feature on.

Redacting a document just makes me more curious about what was hidden.

I agree with you. I just think you might be giving the rest of the UN countries (and previous US Presidents/other politicians) more credit than they deserve as well.

No, WE gave them the ability to defend their country. WE weren't arms dealers until trump was elected. Trump is the arms dealer.


The other ones were happening all along and you just chose to ignore them. That's the case you presented here. We have been weakening them in conventional arms. We have been weakening their economy. Now your claim is they weren't happening so that's why you didn't mention them? Sometimes I don't think you can see what you post.


I see you value feelings over reality. Your posts certainly reflect that.


You certainly ignored them in your response. Far be it from me to figure out what's going on in your mind.


I can't say I blame you. When all you have is demeaning things to say while you deny reality because you have no legitimate counterpoints what other choice do you have at this point in time?



It sounds as if you are directing this towards yourself.

You have gone beyond every boundary possible to pretend that we weren't helping Ukraine protect their country. Made the case in your own words that if we weren't weakening Russia's nuclear stockpile we weren't weakening Russia. It's all here posted in your own words. The fact is that without our support they would have crumbled. While we helped protect a sovereign democracy protect itself you have twisted that in every nefarious way possible. The only place someone could have created such craziness is with the voice in their own head.