DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Ukraine: The Saga Concludes

If you want to have that conversation in a Trump/Elon thread, I'm all for it. I'm not sure what exactly it has to do with Ukraine. I'm not trying to say it is something not worth talking about, it is. I think it goes back to what I said about conflating things, though. People seem so focused on "Trump bad," some don't actually consider anything in any way affiliated with him.

Trump is "bad," I won't oppose that generality. Actually evaluating the stuff that happens around him/he does on its own merits seems a better approach than defaulting to an emotionally anchored response to me. But I was brought up more as a human doing than a human being so I tend to focus more on the actions than the people/emotions involved. Yay childhood trauma, and subsequent psychological development/quirks....

They proved themselves a paper tiger when their 3-day operation dragged on past a year. By all rights, they should have steamrolled Ukraine.

And then they proved they're still a threat by pouring all their resources (economic and manpower) into continuing the fight despite eye-watering losses. It can absolutely be both.

That's not what your fearful leader told you to say. He says this is all a DEI problem. You need to check your GOP talking points list next time before you respond.

Trump's decision to stop intelligence-sharing will cost lives, Ukrainians say

The White House is not only pausing shipments of military equipment to the war-torn country, but also intelligence Kyiv uses to stop strikes on civilians.

KYIV, Ukraine — Ukraine may have enough weapons to fight Russia unaffected for a few weeks at least, but President Donald Trump’s decision to stop sharing intelligence will cost civilian lives almost immediately, dismayed Ukrainians said Thursday.

Trump’s decision to halt intelligence came as European leaders, including Ukrainian President Volodymy Zelenskyy, convened a summit in Brussels as they attempt to cope with an upended landscape in which the Trump administration appears to be treating them with hostility while seemingly warming to the Kremlin.

Miles away from these high-powered meetings, ordinary Ukrainians may have to confront the real-world consequences of the White House’s U-turn.

As Washington turns off the tap on its $65 billion of military aid, Ukraine will also now have to do without American intelligence that has helped it to anticipate Russian attacks and troop movements, and avoid nightly barrages from Russian drones on its cities and infrastructure.

Viewed from the homes and apartments of Kyiv, it seems like “a very petty decision by our alleged ally,” said Myroslava Yeremkiv, 33, who manages donations at a nongovernmental organization in the capital. “The United States has the power at least to protect and save the lives of civilians from Russia’s brutal and terrorizing attacks … and you just choose not to.”

The White House cut off this intel feed following the disastrous Oval Office meeting last week between Trump, Vice President JD Vance and Zelenskyy. Though Trump’s team hinted that the pause is a negotiating tactic to ensure Zelenskyy is “ready for peace,” it has nonetheless shocked military and intelligence experts worldwide.

That feeling is no less deeply felt in Kyiv.

“This looks like a thug tactic — blackmailing and trying to break Ukrainian society into submission before negotiations,” Yeremkiv said, calling it a “very weak and pathetic decision.”

In some of the first practical consequences of that rupture, U.S. shipments of weapons and equipment already en-route to Ukraine were halted Monday night, a U.S. defense official told NBC News. So immediate was that order, that planes carrying vital aid for the Ukrainian war effort turned around in the sky, they added.

“I really, really hope that in the near future we can restore sharing of this information,” said Oleksandr Musiienko, head of the Kyiv-based Center for Military and Legal Studies. “We will lose some types of information about flying warplanes from Russian airfields, about launching their terrorist attacks,” added Musiienko, who also serves in the country’s Territorial Defense Forces. “This means that we do not have enough security and defense for our civilians.”

The U.S. is not the only country providing military aid and intelligence. But it is by far Ukraine’s largest single contributor of both. It will “be extremely difficult to fully compensate for this loss with our own capabilities or those of Europe,” according to Mykola Bielieskov, a research fellow at the National Institute for Strategic Studies, a Ukraine government-backed think tank.

Despite Moscow having the upper hand, Ukraine has slowed or even halted Russia’s grinding winter advances. Kyiv has managed to shoot down most of the hundreds of Russian drones fired almost nightly at civilian targets in cities. That’s partly down to $64 billion in American military assistance and $66 billion provided by all other countries combined, fueling Ukraine’s fighting spirit that confounded predictions of swift Russian victory.

At the European Union summit Thursday, Zelenskyy thanked the Europeans, who unlike Trump have committed to Kyiv’s unconditional defense, which they see as a bulwark against wider Russian aggression. “It’s great that we are not alone,” he told his fellow leaders.

Some of this money covers intelligence, with U.S. know-how helping the Ukrainians to wield American-supplied materiel such as the High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, commonly known as HIMARS, and the Army Tactical Missile System, or ATACMS.

Away from the battlefield, the decision to pull the plug — and pull it so publicly — will send shock waves through America’s intelligence partners around the world, former officials said.

“The signal it sends is atrocious,” said Marc Polymeropoulos, a former senior CIA officer. “It’s a signal to the rest of the world that the U.S. is not a dependable ally.”

This message will also be heard loud and clear in Moscow.

“Every day that passes without a solution can be costly for Ukraine, particularly if Russia decides to exploit this weakness,” said Michael A. Horowitz, a geopolitical and security analyst who is the head of intelligence at the Le Beck consultancy.

“The spat is public. Russia knows about this, so they will try to take advantage.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...ssia-putin-war-kyiv-zelenskyy-rcna194907

Who is saying he's not on Putin's side again?