DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Trade for Kenny Pickett

I don't get this part. Eagles didn't "gamble" on Pickett. They have Hurts and brought in someone on the cheap to be a backup. Depending on who else gets added, this would be the same move. That's not "gambling" on him. It's filling a roster spot with a guy that has starter experience. It feels like yesterday when we went into the season with DTR and the XFL guy as our backups.

Do you have anything to say to the actual point, or do you just get perverse pleasure in taking your anti-Berry/Stefanski crusade everywhere?

Pickett isn’t a trade that will change the Browns future. If our starting quarterback gets injured the season is probably over anyway so…

My absolutely biggest fear is that we go for Cousins. (Great guy, role model, liked by almost everyone including me but his time as a starting QB is most likely over after his latest injury)

I know the Browns have a long tradition of making stupid decisions but please, no, I really pray to higher powers that at some point our GM uses his common sense and not fall for achievements in the past. Most likely his actual level is how he performed in his latest games with the Falcons but unfortunately I’m not optimistic that Berry has the capacity to see beyond the obvious.

Kenny Pickett is better than DTR, Jeff Driskel and PJ Walker, guys we had to start in 2023. He's here in a backup role probably 3rd string depending on what else we do at the QB position. He'll probably be gone after this coming season.

The point you yourself made was that Tomlin wanted to get rid of a player he just used a first-round pick on 2 seasons ago. Did you not post that fact? My point here is the Berry/Stefanski crowd here continually state that Stefanski has no say or input on who's retained on the roster and who is not. So, who is right? Is Tomlin and the Steelers the norm in the NFL or is it the Berry/Stefanski setup that's the norm? Is the signing of Pickett a lone Berry decision or was Stefanski consulted? Maybe neither one of them made the decision and Haslam ordered them to do it. I mean the Browns have a 5-year losing record with this group. Who's pulling the strings: just Berry, or just Stefanski, or maybe it's all Haslam? That's the actual point to your post - inquiring minds just want to know.

Maybe they think playing behind Flacco might fix him?

C-O-L-L-A-B-O-R-A-T-I-V-E

They gave the Steelers a 3rd rounder (and a couple 7th rounders which don't have a ton of value) for Pickett and a 4th. The difference in value between pick 98 and pick 120 is about the value of pick 120 (a mid 4th rounder.) (NFL Trade Value Chart Link) They thought maybe he'd be better than he looked in Pittsburgh. He really wasn't. Same limitations showed up.

A 5th round pick for a guy you never want to see play and will be gone after the year, seems like a waste of a pick, to me. People keep saying he's better, but his tools are suspect. He's better at what? Getting unwarranted opportunities? Getting carried?

Adding him without the pick(s) wouldn't be a gamble, and wouldn't bother me so much. Spending a pick when a guy has already shown you who he is (and it's not great) and is only under contract for a year (unless you want to pick up the giant 5th year option), seems like a bad bet. Why get a guy who more or less sucks when you could instead use the pick to get a player that might be good. The 49ers found Purdy with the last pick in the draft. Why not give yourself a chance to get lucky?

Do you really believe Pickett is suddenly going to get better on a new team, learning a new offense, where that team is also likely trying to develop a rookie, and hopefully has a better starter?

I get the idea of getting a cheap backup. I don't get why they went with Pickett. They could have gotten Flacco for about the same amount of money (spotrac market value has him at $3.2M) without giving up a pick and he's actually functioned well in NFL offenses, even ours. He doesn't have to learn the offense from scratch. He has game reps in it. He won games. With us.

The idea of what Berry and Stefanski say makes sense, but when it actually comes to executing those things I'm starting to wonder if they're just awful at the part that actually matters. Good plans? Okay. Actually making the plans work? Not so far.

So, crusading all day, every day, everywhere? Okay.

Colbert was the GM when they drafted Pickett. Colbert was gone before they got rid of Pickett. Tomlin was still there. He's the entrenched coach. He has the juice over newbie Omar Khan who was more of a business side/operations guy before getting the GM title.

Did Tomlin not want rid of Kenny? Has Tomlin dealt with a plethora of other head cases in his time with the Steelers? Did Chase Claypool last longer? I saw this tweet recently and had it in mind:

On further consideratoin, I am not a fan of the trade
I would rather have kept that 5th rounder and used it on someone like Roarke the Indiana Qb

I also would have preferred to trade that 5th for Malik Willis
Historically, if GB does something well, it's develop qb's

Kenny Pick6.

Just getting a head start on the nicknames.

Cleveland does. AB makes the decision but Cleveland gets input from Kevin, all of the coaches, pro scouts, college scouts, pro player personnel.

As Hammer was so kind to post already

C-O-L-L-A-B-O-R-A-T-I-V-E

AB makes the final decision BUT it's not a dictatorship in Cleveland. They all work together. You want to give praise you need to give it to them all. You want to bash them well you need to bash them all. It's a team off the field just as much as on the field.

He's a backup QB. I can understand not liking him as a player when he's in the game and wanting someone else, but I just can't bring myself to get worked up over a guy that will probably have to compete for a backup spot (side note: if we don't pick up another FA QB AND draft a legit QB then all I'm saying here is null and void). He could just as easily get the Dobbs treatment (brought in for camp and cut/traded before the season). Or, if we bring in an actual starter-caliber FA (Cousins or Flacco or someone in that tier), and the drafted QB actually shows something in camp, then Pickett is maybe the third QB.


There are so many other spots on the roster that, if not addressed by AB and co, could sink the team for the next season. Backup QB isn't one of them.

Which is why wasting a pick on a guy you hope doesn't make the roster is so aggravating.

Especially when better players were available without the draft pick cost and could have been had at similar salary.

There is no world where I want to build an offense around Kenny Pickett. The Eagles would have had to offer us a pick for me to take him, and I'd still have immediately cut him.

You want to sign Pickett to the practice squad after the Eagles cut him? Fine. I still don't like it, but you're not passing on almost certainly more upside in the draft.

High floor arguments work for me at every position except QB. (And the floor here isn't that high) Having a Kenny Pickett at QB makes everything harder for everyone else.

Wins aren't a QB specific stat. Watch the tape. Pickett's not good.

I don't care if he's cheap or won't play. A bad QB is a bad QB. I see no reason to have one on the roster.

Maybe, he can recapture his mojo and not be completely awful, but I see a hesitant QB. With his limitations, that doesn't work at this level. You end up with ridiculous looking plays where you throw yourself instead of the ball.

I know someone tried to make this a personal issue with you but I won't do that. I will tell you the vast difference between the two HC's and why I feel your comparison makes no sense however.

Mike Tomlin has been the Steelers HC since Jan. of 2007. He has led the Steelers to 2 SB appearances winning 1 of them. He has taken the Steelers to 12 playoff appearances, 7 AFC North titles, a 183-107-2 regular season record and holds holds the record for most consecutive non-losing seasons to begin a coaching career with 18.

Nobody hands the reigns over to a HC until they earn it through their accomplishments. Even then often times they work in unison with the GM. Trying to compare Tomlin to Stefanski is something I thought was a bridge you wouldn't try to cross. I think you already know that doesn't make any sense.

I believe you made my point with your comments. Only a fool would believe that Stefanski was on the same level as Tomlin. I also do not believe that Tomlin makes the trades or cuts just by himself. I do believe he has a greater influence on what the team does with those moves than many HC's. I also don't believe for a second that the moves being made by Berry hasn't been consulted with Stefanski. If someone can provide proof that Stefanski has no say whatsoever, then I will double down on the fact that Stefanski should be fired. He's not really a head coach, he's Berry's puppet. As it stands, IMHO, Stefanski and Berry are a team and been together for 5-years now and sporting a losing record. They are equally liable for the product they have put on the field to get that losing record.

Maybe it should be you who shows proof he does. You seem to be confused here. Nobody said that Stefanski doesn't give his input. The issue is how much weight and say does his input hold with AB?

And how would firing Stefanski change the way AB operates no matter who the HC is? That doesn't make any sense.

You do realize anyone can say something and then say, "prove I'm wrong" correct? That in no way means they're right. They're just throwing out their opinion like everyone else does.

Not many coaches would measure up to Tomlin. I do know that Stefanski has been named 2-time NFL coach of the year, and we are lucky to have him as coach of the Cleveland Browns. Before Stefanski arrived, the Browns have only had 2 winning seasons in 21 years and only 1 playoff appearance. He has 2 winning seasons and 2 playoff appearances in 5 years.

He's also been the benefactor of having an owner that allowed them to have the highest average spend in the entire NFL over the last 4-years. After an unexpected turn around in 2020 resulting in a playoff appearance with a 3rd year QB, rookie HC and GM; Haslam opened up his wallet to build on that success and bring a Super Bowl team to Cleveland. That ROI has been rewarded with a losing record of 29-39 a .426-win percentage in that 4-year period. Berry, Stefanski, and the Browns will most likely be the highest spend in the NFL again. This season isn't looking promising according to the sport reporters, but I take the wait and see attitude. I just believe they (Berry and Stefanski) has failed to deliver since Haslam opened up the wallet to win and I have little faith in them turning this team into a winner in 2025 no matter how much money they spend of Haslam's.

The problem is Cleveland is not the GM it is not the coaches. Bottom line is this franchise has not had a franchise QB since Bernie Kosar. Without a franchise QB you will see same ROI as we have been seeing. Fix that and the ROI will change dramatically. Stefanski is a good coach and if we fired him, he would be picked up really fast by a needy team. What he did in 2023 was amazing. Cannot mimic that performance year after year, it was not sustainable.

Can you explain how Haslam's money was spent, who was responsible for spending that money and how that helped the QB position? Who is in charge of spending that money?

If the person in charge of spending the money just throws money at it, that doesn't fix the problem. Investing that money properly would have.

Somehow it seems you have convinced yourself that Stefanski is at least somewhat involved with the signing of players, how much the team should pay them and spending the money. I have no idea how you accomplished that but you did.

Basically I agree with your post. Pickett wasn't brought here to be the starter. It's not worth getting riled up over. The only point of contention I might have is not having a good back-up last season didn't do us any favors. We wouldn't have been superbowl favorites, but we would have won several more ballgames had we had even decent QB play.

I'll say this... if we end up with Pickett and Wilson as our FA QBs, I'll kinda do a 180 on this trade and get mad.

Pit, you're smarter than that comment. I never said Stefanski had any say in how much a player should be paid or spending the money. What I did say is Haslam has opened his wallet 4-years ago to build on the success of the 2020 team. If Stefanski was animent that he could have worked with Mayfield and he had continued playoff capabilities to eventually make it to the Super bowl, Mayfield will still be here. He obviously did not believe that, so he told Berry who was in the middle of extension talks with Mayfield. You will never make me believe that Stefanski hasn't had conversations with Berry and Haslam on a consistent basis as to what he believes he needs to be a winner as far as players and positions. Are there untouchables, I believe so. Normally, you'd think your 1st round drafted QB that led you to the playoffs for the first time in 2 decades would be one, NOT. Garrett is probably another and maybe Ward. In any case, it's a fact that Haslam opened up his wallet after the 2020 season. Berry and Stefanski collaborated on the needs going forward. Berry was actually the spender, but Stefanski had a say in the need. Whatever the reason, the Browns threw money at the problems, and it has not fixed the problems. In fact, after 4-years, IMHO - the Browns are not as good of a team as it was in 2020. Four years later and sporting a losing record over that timeframe and it's clear that the money was not properly invested.

So now we enter the 2025 season, and the Browns have 2 players making $40M plus a season, the Browns have $54,535,075 plus in dead cap they have to show this year for poor cap choices and management, still no franchise QB, still going to be the highest spend team in the NFL again, looking at another losing season, and still not getting anywhere close to a ROI for the spend.

And in an extremely weak division Mayfield hasn't led the Bucs to a SB either. Not even an NFC championship game. So there's that.

I'm sure Stefanski tells Berry the type of player he needs at every position. I'm sure he tells him his biggest areas of need. What Stefanski has no power to do is select sign specific players. To claim such a thing would mean that the analytics department is getting paid to do nothing and that Berry has no say in the spending nor is it berry's role to manage the salary cap. You make it sound as if Stefanski just makes a wish list and AB's job is to do nothing but fill that wish list. In terms of the draft why would you have a scouting department to play a pivotal role in ranking the draft board if all they were doing is filling a Stefanski wish list?

Once again you're trying to spread the blame on how that money is being spent and where we currently are on someone other than the man responsible for making those calls.

And you claim it's me that is smarter than to make such comments?