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I mean, if Anderson came within 1 TD of the team's all time record ......
I need some information regarding these team records....
Haven't the Browns historically been a ground team vs. air? And, where can I find these records vs. other teams records? For example, how far under GB are we in the same record?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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I would assume that you can find the info in a combination of places ...... like the Browns website, the Plain Dealer game archive ..... Green Bay's website ..... and the like.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I understand that...I just thought there might be a place to see them side by side. Thanks.
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Diam .... you say that 98% of NFL QBs would have had similar or better results ....... and that anyone who doesn't see that is clueless ...... so I just have one request.
Prove it.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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All Pro
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Don't waste your time man.
Take the advice of one who's used to getting his butt whooped on pretty much every issue over the last 5 years by my far superior football knowledge ..
don't waste your time ... you'll just get emberrased like he has on a regular basis ... 
I really hope you're kidding.
If not you need to eat some humble pie. Noone likes an arrogant , even if you are knowledgable. I believe there are a few people on this board who are just as knowledgable as you, if not moreso.
Now you do know football. I'm not questioning that. You just turn into a 10 year old when someone disagrees with you. I was always taught that one of the best ways to learn is to be proven wrong...you should always have an open mind man.
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
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Finally someone who put it in writing.Why didnt RAC play BQ against SF to find out what we have ??? Maybe he knows allready.One thing is for sure DA is soley responsible for us not being in the playoffs,if he is under center at the beginning of 08 season I'll be real dissapointed.Allthough I like DA'S enthusiasm and leadership IMO I dont think he is the one to lead us to the next level.
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You lost me here, I assume you mean that PS will do what he wants and RAC will be left to play the guys that PS decides he thinks RAC needs to win with. Outside that I think who RAC decides should or shouldn't be the starter is pretty much how it will go(it does matter). Unless he really does have PS hand up his ass, and just does whatever the puppet master says.
Perhaps you would care to revise that statement a bit, like I said you lost me there..
What I meant is that even if RAC resists a fan/media revolt, he will be powerless to stop it. Let's say that DA starts the season off with DA and DA is horrible. He gets booed with every bad pass and chants of "Brady!" fill the stadium. DA is demoralized because everyone has turned on him and everyone (including ownership) wants to see what Quinn can do. Do you really think that RAC can resist that kind of pressure, even if he thinks DA is "his guy"? Regardless of what he thinks is right, someone, be it Lerner or Savage (or even Crennel looking within himself) will end up making the switch because the pressure on the organization will be unbearable. Look at how RAC's hand was forced with Mo Carthon - if enough pressure is put on, someone will force a change.
My point in all of this is that this kind of revolt is absolutely inevitable with Quinn on the roster. Heck, when the fans just got a taste of Quinn, they went wild. The only way DA can stay starting QB on this team and enjoy the fans' praise is to play flawlessly (which he is incapable of) and even then, as soon as he makes a mistake, the Brady chants will rise.
DA is in a position where he's set up to fail in Cleveland so long as Brady is on our roster. Our front office, coaching staff, and even Derek himself probably all know it. That's one of the big reasons why I don't think DA will be back this year and I think that's kind of what the original article is hinting at.
We're... we're good?
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*L* .. Prove it .... now theres the mantra of someone who is defeated ... that would be like me asking U to prove they couldn't have ... or for u to prove that if BQ was the QB we wouldn't have won the SB ... sounds silly huh???? *L* .. and that 98% thing may have been a bit of an exxegaration .. myabe its closer to 95% ... 
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He did not play BQ against SF for a PLETHORA OF VERY GOOD REASONS ....
1. DA was coming off a bad game .. he needed to be given the chance to go into the playoffs off a high note ...
2. we would have LEARNED VIRTUALLY NOTHING ABOUT BQ from the Frisco game ... like i said earlier .. if he was 28 - 28 with 6 TD's ... or if he was 0 - 28 with 6 picks ... it would MEAN NOTHING in the GRAND SCHEME of things .. no way would u want to base our FUTURE off of one game by a rookie QB /..... thats just DUMB DUMB DUMB ...
and dont glom me in with the DA cost us the Cinci game .. he played bad .. there were 10 other guys on O and 11 on D and another 30 or so on special teams that could have made a difference ..
and he also didn't cost us the playoffs ... NOT EVEN CLOSE ... he was a PART OF WHY but know wheres near as much as guys like U and Ammo want to make it out to be ...
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Here's where I disagree to a degree... If DA implodes, regardless of the shout for Quinn...they will yank him based on performance not the outcry of the fans.. Phil and Rac know what the fans/media think but it hasn't forced them to make changes...they understand the quality of football that needs to be played... I feel they will make whatever decisions based on performance.. DA is in a position where he's set up to fail in Cleveland so long as Brady is on our roster Lame duck QB? No..try limited QB..if he was a more complete QB that wouldn't be the case..dispite the fact he was a virtual unknown quanity...he showed what he is..he has some major flaws..... His success as a future starter hinges on him becoming a better decision maker and being more accurate.. If he's here one more year and he doesn't improve he's out as the starter.. Now the trick is if he were to improve on those deficencies..then they're not gonna just bring in Quinn ...they'll milk DA until theycan't anyone..IMO.. I keep seeing different people post that those who critique DA hate the guy..in my case thats not it in the least.. I see the guy's pro's and cons..it's a mixed bag..because he can do some things other QB's cannot do..but he does some junk that I don't want to see.. Forcing throws into coverage, not being able to efficiently hit recievers in short areas /timing routes drives me crazy.. 
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 01/08/08 02:52 PM.
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You saw all that in 8 pass attempts, huh?
If you looked at WHAT he did on those passes/plays, 7 passes was more than sufficient. He actually CHECKED DOWN receivers, something we hadn't seen all year.
Something else I found strange in that game. When DA was in the game, run run run and maybe a short pass. When BQ was in the game was almost all passes (and not all were just 5-10 yard routes). I'm not sure if they were just checking out his ability on the pass or if the coaching staff just has more faith in Quinn's arm and ability.
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Diam ..... you want to state stuf as fact ..... well facts have proof ...... and your statement shows that what you have stated as fact cannot be proved. Statemets made without factual backing are opinions. Your statements are opinion, basically guesses or projections based on previous experiences at a different level of competition, and how that will translate to the NFL. They may be educated guesses .... or uneducated guesses .... (and sometimes it's hard to tell with some of your ramblings. ) but in the end, in the NFL there are no certainties. Quote:
and that 98% thing may have been a bit of an exxegaration .. myabe its closer to 95% ...
And maybe even closer to 15-20%.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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He did not play BQ against SF for a PLETHORA OF VERY GOOD REASONS ....
1. DA was coming off a bad game .. he needed to be given the chance to go into the playoffs off a high note ...
Thats funny thr first pass he threw was an interception !!!!!!!!!!!! I would have yanked him so fast his head would have spun.
As for losing the Cinci game it was 100% DA, name his last good game !!! what other player played that poorly against the Bungals.Your QB is supposed to step up in games like that not be the reason they lose.Remember he was playing against the WORSE D in the league,and the had 2nd stringers in for a matter of fact.So yes he IS the reason were not playing now.
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One more thing !!! DA sure wanted to get back in the game QUICKLY didnt he,I'm sure he saw his job dissapearing right before his eyes.
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and he also didn't cost us the playoffs ... NOT EVEN CLOSE ... he was a PART OF WHY but know wheres near as much as guys like U and Ammo want to make it out to be ...
Diam, I have to disagree with that-almost everybody on the O played well in the bengals game but DA. But it's hard to win when your QB has that kind of day. Just think back to Charlie...
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and he also didn't cost us the playoffs ... NOT EVEN CLOSE ... he was a PART OF WHY but know wheres near as much as guys like U and Ammo want to make it out to be ...
When have I said DA SOLELY cost us the playoffs? That would be like completely blaming Boeckman for the fiasco last night when a critical personal foul on 4th down and the fact that our receivers couldn't get open against man coverage for the life of them played the biggest factors, that's assinine to lump me in with the "DA cost us the playoffs" crowd.
Sure he had a role but don't lump me in with "that crowd." I'm not that dumb and ignorant about the game.
But you know as well as I do just how average he played down the stretch and you know that factored into our demise, I blame Chud for a poor gameplan vs. Cinci more than I blame DA for his 4 picks because DA wouldn't have had 4 picks had we just kept running the ball because we could at-will!
For Christ sakes, I'm on your side in this argument!
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Here's where I disagree to a degree...
If DA implodes, regardless of the shout for Quinn...they will yank him based on performance not the outcry of the fans..
I truly hope that will be the case, but given Romeo's past stubbornness to make changes when things aren't working (see: Mo Carthon), sometimes the man just needs a fire lit under his behind to make the best move for the franchise.
We're... we're good?
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Well Rac yanked Frye early in the Pitt game...and it wasn't due to the fans..I think he totally disgusted....and possibly knew Frye was inadequate...course Phil was fed up more...
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I don't know, fellas. I'm kinda getting a "doltish" impression from this writer.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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For Christ sakes, I'm on your side in this argument!
That's the problem. People taking sides instead of looking at each item by itself. Diam and you might agree that Brady is the answer but that doesn't make both of your opinions the same. Diam has said many times the strengths of DA a insted of dismissing him out of hand like so many others.
#gmstrong
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Is n't this great ... I'mnow GETTING SLAMMED from both sides of the argument ... *LOL* ... only me bro ...  Ammo as P pointed out we are on the same side of the debate ... but were not even CLOSE AS TO WHY we like BQ and WHY DA isn't the answer ... FACT IS my opinions on DA are much closer aligned to that vers than yours .. and we are on opposite sides of this argument by what appears on this board ... please don't mistake being on the same side with having the same REASONS/OPINIONS as to how we came up with our CONCLUSIONS ..
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Is n't this great ... I'mnow GETTING SLAMMED from both sides of the argument ...
Maybe because the only time you post is to argue with people. Carry on though
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Is n't this great ... I'mnow GETTING SLAMMED from both sides of the argument ...
Maybe because the only time you post is to argue with people. Carry on though
Don't you think this board would be dull if all we had were wishy washy posters like me? 
#gmstrong
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Don't you think this board would be dull if all we had were wishy washy posters like me?
A board with nothing but Pdawg's?   
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Don't you think this board would be dull if all we had were wishy washy posters like me?
Yeah we need a little DA/BQ contreversy weekly to keep things moving
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I mean, if Anderson came within 1 TD of the team's all time record ......
I need some information regarding these team records....
Haven't the Browns historically been a ground team vs. air? And, where can I find these records vs. other teams records? For example, how far under GB are we in the same record?
Michelle - Here is a good reference site for NFL stats, team and individual.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/?redir
As to the whole DA vs BQ thing; I know football, and understand it, what I like in players at certain positions and what I don't. These don't, nor ever will, be agreed upon by 100% of the people out there, so arguing or bickering back and forth (be it pro-BQ or pro-DA) is futile.
As Einstein is reported to have said; 'to do something over and over expecting different results is insanity' (paraphrasing). This DA/BQ arguement has so many threads, some that weren't even started about QB's, and it appears the usual suspects show up to thrust their beliefs on everyone over and over fits the 'quote' above.
Some choose to see the flaws in DA's game and believe they can be fixed, others don't think they ever can be rectified. Some of the flaws are overblown and somewhat exaggerated, not all the time though, but some of the time. Some look at just the numbers and can't fathom them, because we have suffered thru some dreadful performances at the QB position, and the numbers DA put up were pretty good.
Same with BQ, some overstate his capabilities based solely on his college, preseason, or his 8 passes vs SF (hopefully no one uses this as the only measuring stick ). Most want to believe he is as good as advertised, others want you to think he is the second coming of Otto Graham and Tom Brady/Manning wrapped into one player. The truth is no one knows yet (imo), nor will we until he gets true regular season experience. Many a QB was taken high(er) in the draft only to fail, evaluated by people paid to know this 'stuff' far better than anyone on this board.
Truth is neither are as good, nor as bad as the extremists tend to go (again imo) (not naming names because I couldn't think of one poster right now as an extremist). Both players have work to do on their games; BQ is not going to come in and play lights out for 16 weeks (I hope he does, but not realisticaly likely, if he is the QB in '08), DA is most likely going to improve on what we have already seen (I hope he does if he is the QB in '08), which has been positive for the most part. You can't improve if you never make a mistake, he has made a share of them, but lets hope that if he stays and is the QB next season his game goes to a different level and we can watch our Cleveland Browns enjoy further success on the football field. Same goes for BQ, that we can watch his game evolve as it 'slows down' for him, and our Cleveland Browns continue to succeed.
No matter who the QB is I'll root for that one player, on the field with 10 others, to help the TEAM succeed. Not just pad their own personal stats or be better than the 'other guy' so that I can say I was right and you were wrong.
jmho  
Anyway the link was the main reason for my post, good info on that site, for all teams past and present. This novella was because I got too close to the blackhole of the deadbate(I like this term eo  ) and had to share.
Statistics are like a bikini; what they show is interesting, but what they hide is vital.
Drive for show (1st round), Putt for dough (rest of draft).
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Good post!
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Michelle - Here is a good reference site for NFL stats, team and individual.
Thanks, Bat.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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I'm gonna sit back and watch him come at you for calling him out
...actually, I wasn't calling anyone out...it's just that his name comes to mind when I think of a DA supporter.
...and I shouldn't have said that I agreed with 'just about everything he said'...he came out stonger in the negative about DA than I would've
...and although I would've liked to see BQ play some in that game I don't blame RAC at all for keeping his starters in. The Browns are a relatively inexperienced team still. They probably require as much 'real game practice' for the playoffs as anyone (and at the time, we had to have the mind set that we were going to the playoffs). It's not like we were the reigning super bowl champs, an experienced team, and could afford to break the rhythum.
...but I DO agree with most of the article and it's premise.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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I for one will support either QB,however I would like to start the BQ era sooner than later.
Last edited by GARYFINN; 01/08/08 07:09 PM.
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An article that pretty well "sums up the bottom line" 1956. We "already have" two QB's signed to "multi year deals". Maybe someone should post the actual contracts with the signatures in place so it will sink in................. The only true constant in life is change.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Sorry to disappoint some of you, but I am not going to rip Vette. I'll let the article stand for itself. I will say that I knew there would be plenty of people--Vette included--who would think it was right on. *L* I personally think the article was a lot of hog wash written by a guy who wants a certain outcome. I only really agree w/one part.........the fact that Savage has a lot invested in BQ, and that alone, has to give BQ the edge. I do have to comment on a couple of things people wrote......most notably...TripleOption. He said that BQ actually checked down and DA didn't check down all year.  People get uncomfortable when I mention the "agenda" word, but it's comments like the above that lead me to that conclusion. No one is that dumb, are they? When did he check down? And to say that DA didn't check down this year is astounding. He did it quite a bit. In fact, it was one of the things where I saw the most improvement. I am NOT saying he always did, but believe me......he did check down. Then I read where we ran, ran, passed w/DA and threw w/BQ because the coaching staff thought that BQ has a better arm. Come on, man! Oh........and Spectre......you are making crap up about the players preferring BQ. I can tell you for a fact that is totally false! I do see this situation not playing out well. What should be a good thing, will probably turn into a negative. I have a feeling that the players and coaches prefer DA... while the fans, media, and management will support BQ. And the fans and the media will make enough noise to turn a positive into a negative. I have hoped that we keep both and let the best man win. And truthfully, I really don't know who that would be. It might be DA or it might very well be BQ. If it is close, we should go w/BQ. However, I don't think the idiot fans and media are going to sit back and allow it to play out. That is why we get BS articles like the one above and people making up all kinds of things. I do find it interesting that they don't want a fair fight.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I have hoped that we keep both and let the best man win. And truthfully, I really don't know who that would be. It might be DA or it might very well be BQ. If it is close, we should go w/BQ. However, I don't think the idiot fans and media are going to sit back and allow it to play out. That is why we get BS articles like the one above and people making up all kinds of things. I do find it interesting that they don't want a fair fight.
I don't think it's so much that they don't want a fair fight as it is they're drawn in by the fact that Quinn is a first round pick and what we could get for DA in a trade.
If DA wasn't an RFA this offseason we wouldn't be having this discussion. Really.
I'll admit to this, I originally didn't mind Anderson getting traded, but now when push comes to shove I'm gunshy on it unless the deal is of Herschel Walker proportions (and it won't be because no FO is that dumb anymore).
So yeah, may the best man win, I'm pretty confident with whose side I'm on, but if something should happen to that guy then I'll heave a huge sigh of relief knowing the other guy can execute the entire offense and we won't have to hold anything back.
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do see this situation not playing out well. What should be a good thing, will probably turn into a negative. I have a feeling that the players and coaches prefer DA... while the fans, media, and management will support BQ.
Not trying to belittle fans here, but I would hope that they never factor into a decision like this.. The Coaches decision should, I would think, reign surpreme in this instance..
I know it's not totally realistic to think that a public outcry won't have an effect, but it shouldn't.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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At least you manned-up. And no.....I did not think you were stupid.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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At least you manned-up. And no.....I did not think you were stupid.
In all honesty, I was elated at what DA and our team were able to do this season. If there is a QB competition between DA and BQ in 2008 and DA wins out, I'm behind him 100%. We set team records with him at the helm. While statistics may be for losers, a 10-6 season with a record setting offense is nothing to take lightly.
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If there is a QB competition between DA and BQ in 2008 and DA wins out, I'm behind him 100%.
I think 99% of us feel that way -- no matter who would win. I don't understand why people wouldn't.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Quote:
And to say that DA didn't check down this year is astounding. He did it quite a bit. In fact, it was one of the things where I saw the most improvement. I am NOT saying he always did, but believe me......he did check down.
I agree. At the beginning of the year, we rarely saw DA check down. But, towards the end of the year we saw DA check down quite often. You could tell that he wanted to go deep, but it wasn't there so he threw it to a back or a reciever not going deep.
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I have hoped that we keep both and let the best man win. And truthfully, I really don't know who that would be. It might be DA or it might very well be BQ.
Well said. That is without a doubt the safer route. This way if Quinn busts we still have DA who we know can win us games. I don't see that happening, however. But, just in case it does, we are ready.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Interesting article on the DA/BQ
wonderings of next year
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