DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Interesting article on the DA/BQ wonderings of next year

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Dude, don't worry about it. I assure you that 90% of the people who read him chastising another person's posting for being immature and lacking correct football analysis were laughing their asses off.

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I won't say a word because I like Ammo.

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Dude, don't worry about it. I assure you that 90% of the people who read him chastising another person's posting for being immature and lacking correct football analysis were laughing their asses off.

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I won't say a word because I like Ammo.

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Even putting him aside and inserting any name that meets your approval, I feel pretty strong another wideout is going to be explored.

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Whats wrong with Travis Wilson ...

I watched almost every Bears game .. I actually watched about 12 games a week .. so I saw ALOT of EVERYONE this year ..

Berrian started off dropping on average 2 balls a game .. his Sept/beggining of Oct. were HORRIBLE .. and they were key drops ... 3rd and 7 .. DROP ...

he got better as the year wore on but still had way to many drops for my liking ..

to qualify/quantify that .. BREY DROPS WAY TO MANY BALLS FOR MY LIKING .. but he also brings ALOT MORE TO THE TABLE .. and although i HATE IT as IMO a WR's first job is to catch the football... in today's NFL your seeing WAY TO MANY DROPS especially from the so called "elite" recievers ... problem is Berrian brings one thing and one thing only to the table .. SPEED ...

I would just a soon see a guy like Joe as the #2 opposite Brey .. someone who U where their going to be and will CATCH THE DAMM BALL ... then we can use a guy like Carter (who STUNK THIS YEAR .. he was hardly ever in .. ) .. or even Cribbs to stretch the D when needed ..

I don't want two guy that DROP THE BALL OUT THERE ... and since Brey is always going to be one of them .. the other guy needs to have reliable hands ..

and the reason Berrians #'s went up were two fold .. and #1 shows why STATS ARE FOR LOSERS!!!!!!!!

1. they were behind alot more and had NO RUNNING GAME with Thomas Jones gone plus they did not have Jones to throw to out of the backfield ...

so they threw the ball ALOT MORE and threw to their WR's alot more cause Jones was gona and that hurt their running game and gave them one less reliable option in the passing game ..

2. they threw to him alot more ... 2 years ago they threw mostly deep balls to him .. this year they got him more involved with the other stuff ..

he is not a good #2 for us .. those looking for someone opposite brey to stretch the field are barking up the wrong tree ... we need a "possesion" guy opposite brey ..

hell we all ready have another reciever ont he team that "stretches" the field .. make no mistake about it .. KW stretches the field as a TE .. does he do it like a WR?? NOPE ... but he "stretches' the field none the less ..

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theres no doubt about that .. PROBLEM is he will more than likely NEVER IMPROVE enough to be more than an INCONSISTENT QB with a GUN for an arm ...

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Even putting him aside and inserting any name that meets your approval, I feel pretty strong another wideout is going to be explored.

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Whats wrong with Travis Wilson ...

I watched almost every Bears game .. I actually watched about 12 games a week .. so I saw ALOT of EVERYONE this year ..

Berrian started off dropping on average 2 balls a game .. his Sept/beggining of Oct. were HORRIBLE .. and they were key drops ... 3rd and 7 .. DROP ...

he got better as the year wore on but still had way to many drops for my liking ..

to qualify/quantify that .. BREY DROPS WAY TO MANY BALLS FOR MY LIKING .. but he also brings ALOT MORE TO THE TABLE .. and although i HATE IT as IMO a WR's first job is to catch the football... in today's NFL your seeing WAY TO MANY DROPS especially from the so called "elite" recievers ... problem is Berrian brings one thing and one thing only to the table .. SPEED ...

I would just a soon see a guy like Joe as the #2 opposite Brey .. someone who U where their going to be and will CATCH THE DAMM BALL ... then we can use a guy like Carter (who STUNK THIS YEAR .. he was hardly ever in .. ) .. or even Cribbs to stretch the D when needed ..

I don't want two guy that DROP THE BALL OUT THERE ... and since Brey is always going to be one of them .. the other guy needs to have reliable hands ..

and the reason Berrians #'s went up were two fold .. and #1 shows why STATS ARE FOR LOSERS!!!!!!!!

1. they were behind alot more and had NO RUNNING GAME with Thomas Jones gone plus they did not have Jones to throw to out of the backfield ...

so they threw the ball ALOT MORE and threw to their WR's alot more cause Jones was gona and that hurt their running game and gave them one less reliable option in the passing game ..

2. they threw to him alot more ... 2 years ago they threw mostly deep balls to him .. this year they got him more involved with the other stuff ..

he is not a good #2 for us .. those looking for someone opposite brey to stretch the field are barking up the wrong tree ... we need a "possesion" guy opposite brey ..

hell we all ready have another reciever ont he team that "stretches" the field .. make no mistake about it .. KW stretches the field as a TE .. does he do it like a WR?? NOPE ... but he "stretches' the field none the less ..

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That's the thing the Anderson supporters miss with those of us who don't think he's the answer for the future of a successful team.

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We aren't saying he won't improve, we are saying even with the improvements on the part of his game he can improve, we think he still isn't going to be what we all want him to be, or more importantly, what we NEED him to be.

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Or is he just doomed to life as a medorce QB in the NFL?

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So let me ask, if DA is the proclaimed starter going into the season next year (big if I think) and he gets the majority of the snaps with the first team,, do you NOT think that will assist him in improving on all fronts?

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PS. Opie can say what he wants in Jan/Feb/march and even april .. but if DA is here (and as i have said all along he will be) in June there will be a QB comp and he will GET HIS ASS KICKED ....

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IMO you have got to have that one POSSESION reciever on the field at all times just like Brian Brennan was for Bernie.

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The he perks up and says: "SO YOU'RE TELLING ME THERE'S A CHANCE?!!"

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I liked that scene also,,, funny stuff...

I guess I am, when you strip away all the other stuff, an optimist! Can't help it.. that's just me.

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I think I understand what you mean,, not sure I agree, but I understand your point.

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PS. Opie can say what he wants in Jan/Feb/march and even april .. but if DA is here (and as i have said all along he will be) in June there will be a QB comp and he will GET HIS ASS KICKED ....

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I don't know if he will or will not be here.. but if he is, then I agree that a compeition will take place.. I'm only guessing, but I think that if you put DA and BQ on even footing,, BQ should win. If you are right about DA being here, then I guess we'll see..

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That pro coaches have had THREE YEARS to try to "coach them up" and break their bad habits.

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So we agree, camp time is more important.. I mean, isn't that where they get "coached up" as you put it?

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Let's break that down Damon. What did his scouting report break down about DA that caused him to be taken in the sixth round? Are you trying to suggest, that QB coaches and OC's "at the NFL level" were not ALL well aware of what DA's defincies were?

That they were not "ALL" working on DA's "weak points". ie.....No touch on short passes, inconsistant accuracy? It seems that you're confusing "teaching systems" with "teaching technique and fundamentals". Two different animals there Bud.


He has been working on these "techniques and fundamentals" as a pro for THREE NFL SEASONS. We DO agree that he has been in "differing systems" during those three years. But can you please explain to me what, if anything, that has to do with DA having problems with "fundamentals" such as touch and consistancy with his arm?

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So I guess that being coached and playing and practicing in the NFL for three years doesn't quite equate to "the few more starts" you're speaking of?

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OK wiseguy,, did you not see where I said I was guessing? So, according to your thinking, playing 5,6,7 or 8 games isn't as good or important as camp time?

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You see, when you get legitimate first round talent with all the tools and tangibles, that doesn't seem to be a problem. Joe Thomas is a rookie who only played ONE YEAR under ONE OC. He'll be at the pro bowl.

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Ahh, Pit,,,, yoo hoo,, I thought we were discussing DA,, a 6th round pick, not any first round pick. I don't understand the connection.

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It's quite a simple one actually. You make a MUCH larger investment in a QB who is "fundamentaly sound" to begin with. Any time you draft a sixth round QB with lots of ??????, you never know if you can make him "fundamentaly sound". After all, they've probably been playing the QB position from 5th or 6th grade. So by the time they graduate college, they've been playing the position for close to a decade.

So the "risk factor" goes up on lower drafted players. After three years in the NFL, many of those same deficiancies exist. Not really rocket science or anything.

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I would hope that a 1st round pick would have the ability to navigate the system, learn faster, perform better and sooner, than a 6th round pick.. if not,, then didn't we blew the pick,,,

But I still don't get the connection.

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The connection is, we have a QB with pretty "sound fundamentals" now. We drafted him. On the other hand, we have a third year sixth rounder still showing some deficiancies that were in his bio three years ago.

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If it took him untill his THIRD year to "start getting it", I'd wonder about his abilities too, wouldn't you?

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Once again, the connection between a 6th rounder and a 1 rounder is going way over my head.. sorry..

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Quite simple, we have that choice at QB don't we? One with all the fundamentals and one without?

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Oddly enough, it's safe to say that Edwards light came on this year.. this was the year his brain was as engaged as much as his physical talents were. It sure paid off didn't it.. 3 years man.,.,, three years and he got called Leon and beat to death by some posters for the first two years.

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Yes, "some" players have been pampered since they were kids. It takes them three years to get their heads out of their collective arses and realise they're "not God's gift to football". If that's "the light that came on" with BE you are referring too, then we agree. Because IMO it was far more SBS (spoiled brat syndrome) rather than anything else that held BE back.

You may disagree. But notice when he started "acting,speaking and conducting himself properly" the light just "suddenly came on". Coinsidence? I don't think so Tim.

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So I think, given where DA has come from, the lack of playing time (yes, he was coached up), and general mess this team was in last season.. I'd say that DA did pretty darn well and I also believe he can get better..

HOW MUCH BETTER? Hell if I know.. personally, I think Quinn has the greater upside,, but that's as big a guess as me saying that DA can get better.

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Let me say right off the bat that I'm a God fearing man. But after THREE YEARS in the NFL, a kid doesn't have ANY touch on his short throws and irratic accuracy with his arm, you have more faith than I do.

What does DA have? A strong arm and gets rid of the ball quickly. Outside of that, he's lacking a LOT! Can he get better? Possibly. But after devoting most of his life at playing the position and three years at the NFL level, I wouldn't hold my breath.



JMHO

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Yes yes,, but what everyone seems to either miss, or downplay as being less relevant is that DA was only in his first year as a starter.

Lots of pretty darn good NFL QB's started out no better than DA did this year. (please don't make me list them,, I'm old and senile and it would hurt to much , besides, you know them as well as I do)

That's why you will most always see me take the position that DA probably can improve.. rather than taking the position that he can't..

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And how many of these "first year starters" were third year veterans in their "first starting year"???



Let's compare apples to apples please..........

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Doesn't this completely contradict the claims that guys like Pit and tab are saying? And doesn't it at least give some credence to what guys like me are saying, which is, "it would be wiser to keep both QBs until one of them completly proves himself.?

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Let's look at the two most successfull franchises in the league shall we?

Who is Tom Brady's back up? Let's see, it WAS Drew Bledsoe. But of course they ran him out of town by trading him to avoid a QB contraversy. How about Indy's?

Of course you're right. What FOOLS they have running those franchises!!!!

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TO’s (Trusted Ones)

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Dude, please, enough with that.

It's creepy, and gives me the impression of a cult mentality

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I also feel we're running "one helluva gamble" no matter which way we go
No bigger gamble than the one that was run when Frye was shipped out and DA was given the starter spot, even though he hadn't done squat to take the job away from CF...

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I agree with you there.



I think in the long haul, Savage will "trust his own judgement". And his investment strongly indicates his "judgement" at the QB position IMO.

My point was, some make it "sound as though" keeping DA is a "no lose" proposition. While I don't see it that way.

I think we can "cash in NOW" for DA. If we "wait" we could lose a LOT in the way of compensation for DA if and when he's religated to the back up. So does Phil "forge forward" or stand pat?

IMO- He forges ahead. He's made that "Big QB investment" and will run with it. I believe DA's agent will want FAR MORE than Phil is willing to give. In fact, I believe DA will want MORE than BQ's contract is worth!!!



And that will be a path to follow in "building the D". By playing "Let's Make A Deal!"

I believe Phil knows there is much work to be done and that DA is a vehicle by which he can "get there faster". So far, it appears that Phil never seems quite happy with the status quo. And to achieve greatness, risks must be taken.

JMHO

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OK . so whats the minimum U accept???

do u take a 3rd .... a 2nd .... a 1st all by themselves ....

does it take a 1st and 3rd ...
does it take a 3rd this year and a 3rd next year ..

whats the MINUMUM U TAKE???? and where's the magic spot that u say .. HELL YES LETS DO IT RIGHT THIS SECOND??? another where do u believe the bank robbery begins???

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Well I'm NOT Phil Savage!


But as for myself????????????

First I'd look at the salary cap. Secondly the QB need.

I believe there are at LEAST two teams that qualify as "desperate rebuilders". Miami and Atlanta.

They need all the cap space they can muster and a QB. At least I believe The Tuna will think Miami needs a QB.


I highly doubt either of these teams can afford to sign a big time contract on a QB without freeing up cap space elsewhere to continue to build.

So by the very nature of the scenario, I would accept a current highly regarded NT or DE, even OLB and a high second rounder for DA.

You have a proven D stud and a high second round pick. To me, that's as good, if not BETTER than a first and third rounder.

So bottom line, current DL player of above average quality or better, and a high second round pick would be my threshold at this juncture.

Shaub got what, 48 mil.? So I'd say DA's agent will be looking for a long term, 50 mil. + contract.

JMHO

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Afterthought...???

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Is there any valid reason to think that those things can be fixed in the off season.. meaning, can Chud and the other offensive minds coupled with DA come up with counter plays that take way those defenses designed to keep us playing shortball all the time?

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If you really want to know where I stand on this it is that I feel BQ likely has a superior skill-set and with this O-line and these playmakers I feel he could be successful. If DA was not here at all I would have complete confidence that the choice of taking BQ in the past draft was done with careful consideration and evaluation. I would believe that BQ could light it up. There's obviously some wishful thinking there.

But enter DA. He is here. And he surprised everyone as he had a great season overall and overall is what matters. He makes the decision harder. Would Savage have taken BQ had he seen DA play like this? If so it would have to be that he sees things in DA's game that he doesn't think will improve. If not, then it's because he now believes DA is the real deal.

Which way that goes is anybody's guess. It was an easy decision before DA threw 29 TD's, etc, etc.

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