DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Looking Back: Browns 17 Ravens 41 Other Games

We suffer so they can live. Soon enough we'll be back in a lobotomized state watching the Browns!

Sad for who?

Us ?

Texans fans ?

Are you a Texans Fan ?

Chubb almost hung up a 25yd game-winner. He had a tiny "hitch in his giddy-up" as he sped through the line, but he showed he has more than enough functional football speed.

But then Baker got ahold of the ball with a 2 minute clock and was not to be denied. Didn't improve on his #2 overall 4thQ TD pass in the last minute since 2018. Didn't improve on his NFL leading 22 4thQ TDs since 2023. But he bounced off the turf after 15 on 4th and 10... and drove home a victory. Everyone on the globe knew it was a done deal after that play. Dude is ICE.

Threw darts down the field and played the clock like a fiddle. After the score, I screamed at the TV as Baker signaled "2!" to his teammates. Then I watched him fire the ball through the back of the endzone to prevent any miracle 2pt return for the defense. Next level. It's almost like having an adult in the room.

I know there is a solid argument that Baker had to go thru the rejection and bounce between Panthers, Rams, Bucs to become the player he is now.

But I think there is an equally compelling argument that - based on his roookie season and his 2020 season - that with a different HC more deft at handling an immature but uber strong personality, he could have been the exact same guy for the Browns. There's a lot of Browns fans that never fell of the Baker band wagon. Many that said he'd never be a starter in the NFL. Some that could never get over the flag plant. And many somewhere in between. As a Browns fan I lament that he was let go - no matter that it was such a giant self inflicted wound by the FO and ownership to go get Watson ... and part of me is a Baker fan that thinks he's so much better off anywhere else but in CLE.

I agree with you.

I have said that he's not the same QB/pro as he was when he was here. But at the same time I don't see why he couldn't have made those steps here vs Carolina-LA-TB. It's a compelling argument against KS coaching up a high draft pick QB.

I also think that the offense he's in right now is much better suited to his strengths vs the KS offense (again, not a great argument for KS and his ability to maximize his talent).

You know, I think it's a compelling argument either way and that none of us will never know the answer for sure. I'm of the mind set that he needed a dose of humility to grab hold of a dose of reality. Nothing can motivate you more than watching your dream slowly slipping through your hands. And as I said none of us will know who is right for sure because there are no do overs. I think we all base our opinions on what we have seen in life. Based on the experiences of those around us that impact our opinions. I've witnessed first hand how it has helped some people I have known to get a taste of humble pie. That's what I think influences my opinion on the matter be it right or wrong.

And heck, I think how you were labeled in terms of how you felt about Baker was dependent of what you had to say at any particular time. Baker was good but by no means perfect. When I would point out what I thought were some of his flaws I was labeled an OSU Homer. When I stuck up for Baker when I thought he deserved it I was labeled as a "Baker Boy". I found that part of it hilarious!

But there were certainly people who had a side that always made excuses for him when he was bad and those who had nothing positive to say when he was good.

I agree with both of you, for the most part. Although I think a KS offense is just fine for Baker to thrive in.

I think Baker was the alpha and the two others just put their tail between their legs. He wanted to play injured, nobody had the balls to let him know how things work in an NFL hierarchy. I don't think KS is as much as a pushover at this point (I actually watched him discipline a player on the sideline last year), but that exit wasn't all about Baker's immaturity.

In hindsight I wish we would have just given him the new contract and allowed him to sit for the season, but that's all in the past

That is/was a huge part of it and ultimately was the absolute root cause or begining of the end depending on how you look at it.

Being humbled as Pit mentioned definately had a huge impact ... hell when he went to the Panthers who still was pulling some disasterous hubris / marketing BS. But I firmly believe with someone like Tomlin, Shanahan, McVey, Dan Campbell - all different with their coaching styles - he could have arrived at where he is today without going through the Hubris. But - sure we'll never know.

Agree on all counts.

This is the part that often gets glossed over by many though...


Seemingly, that was the only option. He was dead-set on playing for his contract. I wouldn't at all be surprised if that was the biggest sticking point. Remember the stage? Josh Allen got the largest (per year) contract of all time, and it seemed like Baltimore and Cleveland were playing chicken with Mayfield and Jackson's contracts.

Mayfield was probably like "you want me to sit... without a contract??" And the other side of the table was a team that was probably not willing to make that commitment, at least not with near the compensation Mayfield expected, when he had a broken wing and a bad attitude.


The funny thing to me, is that Haslam thought he got the last laugh when his fully guaranteed Watson contract had Lamar's mom (who was his agent) screaming for the same... in the end he got 260/185.

One of these contracts was fair market value. The other was the biggest heist in NFL history.

I'm of the belief that Shanahan would have strangled Baker for not throwing it to the wide open, schemed up receiver over and over. Or at least would have made an angry PowerPoint about it.

I certainly agree that the watson deal was the biggest heist in NFL history.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say in regards to a new Mayfield contract though. You did bring up both Baltimore and Buffalo however. I don't know what Mayfield was asking for so I have no idea how fair or unfair his terms were. What I do know is at that point in time I certainly wouldn't have valued Mayfield on the same level as Allen or Jackson.

I'm just saying it was the elephant in the room and Mayfield had to feel like (most players do) he could play through the injury rather than sit and get a less than stellar offer. At the time, Lamar wasn't having a great season either... 12 games / 7-5 / 16TDs / 13INT before he got destroyed by JOK and missed the remainder of the season. Thus the "playing chicken" by both clubs. Baltimore definitely seemed to be waiting for the Mayfield contract to go down in order to find some balance with Allen's record-breaker.

Mayfield was an egotistical kid with a chip on his shoulder who probably felt like he was a pawn. Not making excuses for him, this is just my 2 cents. Obviously not grounded in fact because we aren't privy to any of those.

Sometimes, more than the highlights, I miss stuff like this. So blue-collar, so Cleveland. It was easy and fun to root for this dude, despite the warts.





* well of course it is! Worth the click though.

j/c

I just watched the Bucs/Texans game. Chubb on one team, Baker on the other. I didn't know what team to root for! I actually teared up when our former pride & joy RB ran it in for a TD. But Baker & Co. would not be denied. Good game!

I agree with you, but also feel like I gotta point out that stuff like this is the spark that sent things off the rails his last year in Cleveland.

Yep, that's the sad irony.

And the reason I believe the gods truly hate us.

Along those lines, Mayfield got beat up pretty good in this last game. Wirfs is out right now, but the whole unit looks VERY porous in pass protection. I'll be surprised if he makes it through the season like this healthy enough to sustain his play into a playoff run.

Their ST also should've had the 2 additional punts blocked, including the one at the end that was blocked. Very few teams are ever "complete"... I guess it comes down to maximizing your strengths and covering your weaknesses.

I didn't watch the entire game... there were two punts blocked?

We haven't had fun football in quite some time other than the Flacco 5 game run in 2023.

Baker still plays with that edge. From last night...

Sorry... no. I was trying to say the two punts before the blocked one were VERY close. Coulda/shoulda been blocked. That unit was asking for that to happen.

It's like the trash talk just instantly recharged him.

Actually both of his staring OT's were out. That will make things look pretty bad and it did.