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Steve,

1. Berry and Stefanski never drafted a first-round potential franchise quarterback. Yes, they had Baker, but Mayfield was not their choice. If you recall, Baker wasn't all in with Kevin. I am sure you remember 2023.

2. I like how you always bring up the cap! This is the last year Watson will get his actual pay. They will extend his salary cap money for the life of the rookie quarterback contract. Then they will waive him in June. Your numbers are overstated. You absolutely know that is the plan.

3. Never adjusted? Why does he need to adjust? When Cincinnati traded for Flacco, the Bengals installed much of Stefanski's offense to make it an easier transition. With talent, Stefanski's offense works. Actually, Kevin did adjust his offense last year when he hired Ken Dorsey. They tried to make the offense a better fit for Watson. Sadly, Watson was unable to perform at his previous level. This year, they transitioned the offense back to Kevin's style. Instead of filling with expensive free agent talent. They added through the draft. Obviously, it will take longer before you see results.

4. Six offensive positions need to be addressed. I disagree. With the level of play of the defense, you don't need a high-level offense. Get the right quarterback and add another receiver, preferably one with speed. Bond fits the bill, but he may be a little inexperienced. This offensive line is asked to handle 8-9 in the box. That's a tall order. Until you get a quarterback and receiver combo to apply pressure in the secondary. Every defense they face will load the box. The offense has shown signs of life these past two games. If they can limit the unforced errors, I think we will start to see progress. If Bitonio retires, you will need his replacement. You don't know the status of Jenkins, Wypler, and Zinter. Joel's replacement may already be on the team. If you move Dawand Jones back to right tackle and play Cam Robbinson at left tackle, your tackle positions are stable. Berry will need to fix the tackle depth.

The goal for this offense going forward is efficiency and to consistently score 24 points. A strong run game and more speed at receiver will get you there. Once they draft their quarterback, they can begin adding complementary pieces through the draft.

Berry fixed the defense in two years when they transitioned from Woods to Schwartz. The defense then was horrific. It had no depth and was a hodgepodge of players who did not fit together.

bugs, I think you're confused with some of your statements.

1) True that Stefanski and Berry have not drafted a first round QB. I never said that they did. However, in Stefanski and Berry's 6 years now, they have had 4 first round QB's to turn this team around - Baker, Watson, Flacco and Pickett. Baker didn't get along with Stefanski and Berry and thought expendable because he wasn't their pick. Watson is an on-going saga. If Haslam allows Stefanski and Berry to select a first-round QB in 2026 and then they get fired in 2026 or 2027 - what's the chances of that draft pick hanging on with a new regime where that pick wasn't their guy?

2) Let's assume you are correct that the Browns are going to waive Watson in 2026. Berry has no choice but to restructure Watson's 2026 contract prior to the new year or be broke and unable to sign FA's, rookies or extend players. In this case, Watson's base salary cap number will be about 1.5M and his prorated bonus charge will go up to $46,616,514 for a total cap charge of $48,116,514. Since the waive or cut doesn't take effect until after June 1, 2026, The Browns will carry that total salary on the books until the waiver or cut takes effect. As far as stretching out the cap charge, that's a false narrative on your part. Once a player leaves the employment of the team, the entire balance must be cleared out in 2026 unless designated a post June 1 cut, then the balance is due split between 2026 and 2027. Those dead cap numbers will be approximately 81M in 2026 and 51M in 2027 on Watson. This formula applies to the players I was discussing on the offence. For example, if Bitonio retires his dead cap charge is due on or about March 1 and would be $23,504,000 all due in 2026. Same for Conklin whose dead cap charge would be $12,659,327. Same for Teller if not signed to a new deal prior to March 1 - his dead cap charge would be $19,404,000. If Njoku isn't signed to a new deal prior to March 1 - his dead cap charge would be $13,935,000. Just for giggles, Pocic must be resigned by March 1 or his dead cap charge is $4,368,000.

3) I disagree but you think what you might. Stefanski and Berry's record speaks volumes.

4) All I have left to say on this is your counting of Jones who has had 3 knee injuries in 3 years to anchor RT is wishful thinking. Robinson currently has a PFF rating of 43.4 and ranked 75th of 77 tackles ranked to date. Lucas is ranked 76th. JMHO, this plan is a plan to fail if you believe that's Berry's plan at the tackle positions, no question. That's 7 probable offense replacements not including QB or WR yet with no money available.

[quote]bugs, I think you're confused with some of your statements.

1) True that Stefanski and Berry have not drafted a first round QB. I never said that they did. However, in Stefanski and Berry's 6 years now, they have had 4 first round QB's to turn this team around - Baker, Watson, Flacco and Pickett. Baker didn't get along with Stefanski and Berry and thought expendable because he wasn't their pick. Watson is an on-going saga. If Haslam allows Stefanski and Berry to select a first-round QB in 2026 and then they get fired in 2026 or 2027 - what's the chances of that draft pick hanging on with a new regime where that pick wasn't their guy?


Talk about confused statements.


Lets see you want to Blame the Browns for NOT winning with Joe and Pickett. You want to fired Kevin and AB and replace them with others who you are sure will ruin a QB. Yep that makes about as much sense as wiping your butt before you poop.

Question for you GM - and you may or may not be able to answer this. But it sort of goes to the heart of "it doesn't matter who the HC and GM are if Haslam owns the team".

We **Think** Haslams grubby paws are all over the Manziel pick. The Watson trade (after the FO concluded it was a move that would make the team better). And now **probably** the Sanders selection.

To my mind that doesn't excuse Berry completely regards the salary cap and roster that we have in 2025 - but it's certainly one mitigating factor. The question is - has Haslam learned anything? I thought or at least I got the impression that Haslam was not interfering with the day to day stuff anymore. I got the impression that he's maybe realized that as an owner if he pulls the trigger and ends up being the ultimate decision maker on anything footblall related - he's probably going to fk it completely up... but ... is that just wishful thinking? Is he so much of a meglomaniac that he can't help himself ALA Daniel Snyder (all be it in fact worse then DS)?

Any sort of feedback appreciated.

Flacco was on the couch and Pickett was a failed draft pick. Ryan Leaf was a first round QB too.

GM, you're highly respected on this forum and I agree.

Now if you're truthful, you know from experience that whenever a new regime takes over - about IDK 60 or 70 percent of the time they will want their own guy as the QB to lead their attempt to become a winning team. That's not to say they would ruin a QB, it's just common knowledge that happens more often than not, right? I mean we have just suffered through our own experience with Mayfield. Right or wrong, no matter which side you stand on - it's a fact that it happened.

You point out the Pickett and Flacco situation but the main focus detailed Mayfield and Watson. In any case, you cannot dispute that all 4 were 1st round picks. Damn, I forgot they had Winston too - that's actually five 1st round picks under Stefanski and Berry in 6-years. Not a single one of them have sustained consistant top performance under Stefanski and Berry - WHY? The OL - who's responsible for its deterioration? WR - who's responsible for its deterioration? QB performance level of deterioration? I mean really, who do you hold accountable for when it was determined by the Browns FO in 2021 that the only thing they were missing from the offense was a top 5 QB and then 5 years later the whole offense is total crap, Haslam? I'm pretty sure that Haslam didn't tell Berry make sure that 4 of the 5-starting offensive lineman's contracts would all expire the same year with no adequate backups on the team. Berry has and to a lesser extent Stefanski because he's been responsible for getting those backups ready to replace the starters.

This is what I know for a fact. Berry and Stefanski were handed a playoff caliber team in 2020. They are both responsible for taking that team. dismantling it to produce one of the worst NFL teams in the last 2-years. That's not just an individual opinion; their record speaks for itself. It's my opinion only but allowing these two to continue especially since the QB selection is so important. Wasting another 1/2 season or more on these two who I believe that it's inevitable that they are on a very short leash and will be terminated soon. If I'm correct, that means allowing them to select a future franchise QB is a wasted pick because he won't be the new regimes selection.

Flacco was retired and Pickett had already been rejected by the team that drafted him. Ryan Leaf was a first round draft pick too.

Berry and Stefanski were handed a playoff caliber team in 2020?

You definition of a playoff caliber defense is one that allowed on average 24.6 points per game, 144.7 yards rushing per game, 216.9 yards per game, and 361.6 total yards per. Interesting. I wonder why they fired the HC and GM.

They produce one of the worst NFL teams in the last 2 years. Isn't the defense ranked in the top five? Hard to be worst if you ask me.

You seem to forget that Berry and Stefanski inherited an aging offensive of play makers. There was absolutely no quality depth on either side of the ball. Special teams was not very good.

Your idea of a quality first round pick is Pickett? Do you want to include Josh Rosen? He was a first round pick too.

Whatever Berry/Stefanski was handed the numbers below show the difference.

With Baker
2020 - 11W/5L. 50 TD. 25,5 Points per game
2021 - 8W/9L. 43 TD. 20,5 PPG

2020 - 2022 average of 2,8 TD/game. Win % .579
(If we factor that Baker was injured almost the whole 2021 the numbers are sensational)

Without Baker
2022 - 7W -10L. 42 TD. 21,2 PPG
2023 - 11W/6L. 42 TD. 23,3 PPG
2024 - 3W/14L. 29 TD. 15,4 PPG
2025 - 2W - 8L. 17 TD. 16,2 PPG

2022 - 2025 average of 1,9 TD/game Win % .358

Baker has since he got healthy shown that he can deliver similar numbers as he did in 2020.
Playoff numbers. Division winning numbers. Top 5 caliber QB TD numbers.

Berry/ Stefanski has in average delivered bottom 10 team numbers, the last two seasons bottom 3 numbers.
They got their personal picked QB in Watson and Gabriel.
Berry has had six seasons to draft and sign his own roster.
Stefanski has six years as a HC without any division titles, two playoff losses.

What’s your verdict?
Do you think the numbers lies?

You forgot the aging play makers especially receivers on offense.

It'll explain the decline.

I don’t think I forgot anything.

Age, bad luck, weather, voodoo are anything similar doesn’t count as an excuse when you been in charge for more than six seasons.
All organizations deals with a variety of age, injuries and bad luck. Elite general managers don’t look at birth certificates, they look at the latest stats.
Great head coaches mostly sees age and experience as something positive. Winning mentality.

Using age as an excuse is typical for those with a soft mentally. If you‘re on the field you’re good enough. If you’re on the sideline then……
You need to find better explanations.

So, if we hire a new GM and HC, no excuses, playoffs or get fired after next year. This team has a top 2 defense. All they need to do is concentrate on bringing in offensive players.

Do you hear yourself? Who in the heck are you going to blame for the aging players at WR & OL? Wait - that's Haslam's fault or the Browns bad luck - what do you expect Stefanski to do?

Tell me this - name me one player that Stefanski taught and Berry has drafted in the last 6 years that has become a consistent NFL quality receiver? Just 1 - who's fault is that? Same question for the OL. Who is responsible for drafting backup and future starters for the OL? How's Berry drafting and Stefanski's training of the backups been doing the last 6-years?

Oh wait, let's give them more time to start doing the job they were supposed to be doing the last 6-years.

I'm confused. Are you only concerned with receivers? Tillman and Thrash? Bond looks promising. I'm assuming you excluded TE's, so Fannin Jr. does not count. Harrison Bryant was a zero?

You have already written off OL Jones, Wypler, and Zinter?

Yes, Berry did not have success in his first couple of years. Name a rookie GM who had great success in his first few years.

Stefanski wasn't good either. He received Coach of the Year as an attendance prize.

IF I were the Browns I would draft a stud LT, and WR if they are to be found in this draft. The thing is I would trade back in the draft as far back as I could and still get those good players while picking up every second round pick I could because you can get very good offensive linemen in the second round.

I want us to draft Nyck Harbor no matter what. This kid is going to be one of the best WRs in the NFL since Calvin Johnson except he is even faster and stronger. He is a high character kid who will be a hard worker and a great role model to the kids. I have just fallen in love with this kid the more I watch him. At 6'5" 235 pounds and running a 4.2 he is so fast and big if he doesn't make you whiff he will run you over. I can only dream of him and Fannon on the field together and Judkins breaking a long one and Myck gets to the endzone first and then turns around to block Judkins pursuers head on. This kid is a real monster! The thing is he will either be a first round pick because of his athletics or a third round pick based on his hands. I would take him with our second first round pick after putting a priority on getting a real LT.

There seems to be several good LT's in this draft so honestly I wouldn't mind moving back up into the first round so we could draft two of them. One for LT and one for RT. Centers and guards are easier to find than tackles in FA and in the second and third rounds of the draft.

Trevor Goosby (OT): 4.80 seconds
Spencer Fano (OT): 4.90 seconds
Jaeden Roberts (OG): 5.00 seconds
Olaivavega Ioane (OG): 5.35 seconds
Conner Lew (C): 5.05 seconds

Imagine an offensive line that fast! The things that would do for the run game! I know it would be hard to get all those guys but I can dream right?

Just give me Nyck and an offensive line and I think the Browns will do great things even with Sanders as QB. IF Sanders doesn't work out then we draft a QB in 2027 but it would be nice if Sanders does work out and we can draft another stud WR in 2027 to have a really great offense. That would give us a fast and young offensive line for the next 10 years and a very dangerous WR core. I honestly think with that offensive line our QBs and WRs will all look a lot better since plays will have more consistent timing which helps WRs a LOT. I have noticed a LOT of timing issues with the WRs and to me that is bad coaching. WRs should know how long the QB has to throw the ball and be looking for it instead of getting hit in the head with it ...

With their injuries, the Niners have almost no pass rush, with only 12 sacks this season.

It's the right move. It may have only been the Raiders, but we looked like an entirely different team with Shedeur. The enthusiasm from all the players was telling. We have 6 games left to see what he can do. He certainly has more upside than Dillon.

The caliber of defenses they have faced couldn't be more different, but I agree with you that the longer passes bring an element we haven't seen this year.

And the caliber of the defenses they have faced may be a factor in why we haven't been seeing the long pass.

And even though it was the Raiders Shedeur was still running for his life on those plays. We need desperately to fix the OT position

Yeah we have to draft OL

In the summer a lot of posters on this board defended the signing of Gabriel, I was not one of them.

A full pre season of first team reps and six games later he’s on the bench and the so called “fifth rounder” is named the starting QB, after one week of first team practicing and one single competitive game.

Who’s honest enough to admit that maybe their first evaluation of them both was premature?

Who’s honest enough to questioning the people who drafted Gabriel in the third round and gave him all the time instead of make it a fair competition between then both?

Berry and Stefanski made Gabriel a top 100 pick. That is a valuable pick. He was projected to be a 5th or 6th round pick. Major reach for an undersized QB with a below average NFL arm.

I was. (and it has been fair) Both young guys still need a lot of experience before the book is written on them.

I also defended every other pick as well. It's the rookie season for both of our young QB's Y'all act like of few games in a rookie season makes the career of a young NFL player. Which just shows you no nothing and just act on emotions. Many posters around here had RG III and Carson Wentz in the Hall Of Fame AFTER their rookie seasons, and they claimed Mahomes was a bust after his rookie season.

Since you're talking about honesty... he did NOT receive "A full preseason of first team reps...". Flacco would have been receiving the bulk of 1st team reps with Pickett also in the mix (when he wasn't injured).

Beyond that... here is a list of Browns opponents and their pass defense ranking.

Vikings- 7
Steelers- 32 (?)
Dolphins- 13
Patriots- 17
Jets- 12
Ravens- 24

Raiders- 19

It's a positive that Shedeur did a bunch of good things, and I'm really encouraged by the addition of the long ball to our offense (this might be the biggest issue with Gabriel), but one thing I gets on my nerves (personally) is people intentionally ignoring a whole mountain of context to keep pushing their own narratives and pat themselves on the back.

For what it's worth Steven A. Smith and Colin Cowherd, along with some other talk show people, feel KS is a good HC. Cowherd also added that AB is a good GM and the Browns have a lot of good young players. I tend to agree with them. We obviously need a QB, but we may be able to get the O-Line and WR group straightened out to at least being respectable for the 2026 season. With the right draft picks and FA signings it can be done and if Shedeur can give us decent QB play, we could contend. Where we will draft next April and what QB's will be available is still up in the air. We'll know more at the end of the season.

As was pointed out, Flacco got first team reps, not Gabriel. The entire organization made it perfectly clear they wanted to get a good look at both Gabriel and Sanders. That's exactly what they're doing. But hey, if you want to invent some fable to the contrary have at it.

Midget who is smart and talented....Sanders threw among the worst interceptions ever seen, his long ball to the one was a broken play with him rolling and BACKING UP, just like college- one good play "DOWNFIELD" shouldn't be OVER the MOON showing talent. His TD pass was good call, great blocking, AND SEC back of year showing his SPEED- Sanders had little to do with that outcome.

No locks at QB this coming draft- OL and Recievers please.

The long ball wasn’t a broken play. Bond ran his route. Sanders rolled right, he instantly had to roll a little deeper because the D-lineman instantly came through untouched. Sanders threw an excellent ball.

Yeah, the blitz got home on that play and Sanders slid out of the pocket. I did not think he ran backward more than slid sideways on that play and hit Bond on a beautiful throw.

It was a really nice play by Sanders and Bond.

The best possible outcome is that the Browns decide to move forward with one of the QB's and spend the first or 4 picks on OT's and WR's.

The QB situation in college is upside down this year. Manning, Beck Allar, and Nussmierer were at the top going into the season, now it is Moore, Mendoza and Simpson.

Always an option to look at someone later.