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What RAC says here makes perfect sense. It's also exactly what I would expect him to say. Honestly, both he and Phil are saying exactly what they should be saying. Anyone who says they know what either one is going to do in the next 6 months must be a time traveler. We all have certain things we'd like to see. Doesn't mean they'll come anywhere close to fruition. But I'm guessing we'll have a much better idea by the time FA starts. Hell, neither one of 'em is starting a game for at least 7 months..... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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ddubia, damanshot, and Vers.... maybe I should have been a little more straightforward with my post about DA. I never claimed to know what he was thinking, nor did I ever state anything I said as "FACT", I just offered an example of why OTHER PEOPLE may be claiming that he would whine if he didn't get the starting job. I was merely pointing out the ONLY example that I could think of which might lead people to that belief. I, however, do not believe that for myself. Sorry for the confusion. Sometimes, I guess I don't illustrate my thoughts entirely and it's usually because I'm chasing around an 18 month old while typing or seeking to avoid the wrath of my 9-month pregnant wife.
And to answer your question Vers... yes, I would want my starting QB to want to get back in there. We had an incident this past seaosn where we were losing, the starting QB threw like 3 picks in the game and he decided he couldn't take it anymore and pulled himself out of the game. It was not a pretty site on the sidelines after that, as you can imagine. Good thing I'm not the QB coach or else I probably would have gotten myself fired. Anyway, we put the next guy in there and we won our next 4 games with him at the helm and went to the playoffs for the first time in 19 years. The best part is, the back-up kid is a junior. Needless to say, he's not the back-up anymore.
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Quote:
I'm chasing around an 18 month old while typing or seeking to avoid the wrath of my 9-month pregnant wife.
YIKES!
If you did anything wrong, and I mean ANYTHING, it is understood and forgiven. 
Actually, I am at fault for not reading your entire post. You may have made all the sense in the world but I missed it. When I saw the part about "the look on his face" I quit reading that post.
Too many claim to know what a player is thinking because of an expression or a look.
I just reacted too quickly.
Now, take care of that baby and good luck avoiding trouble.
#gmstrong
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Thanks man. Yeah, it's about to get crazy 'round here. So you may not see me for a while. 
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Quote:
ddubia, damanshot, and Vers.... maybe I should have been a little more straightforward with my post about DA. I never claimed to know what he was thinking, nor did I ever state anything I said as "FACT", I just offered an example of why OTHER PEOPLE may be claiming that he would whine if he didn't get the starting job.
Fair enough
What's really funny is that I don't want anybody on this team that doesn't want to start. I want Ken Dorsey to prepare like he may have to start and I want him to be anxious to start if the chance comes..
DA has proven to be compitant,, actually more than to be honest! I want him to want to be out there. I want him to fight tooth and nail to keep the starting job in Camp this summer.. If he wins,, Great.. But think of this..
If he loses the job to Quinn,, exactly how much better would Quinn have to be than DA......
Can you imagine how good the rookie has to be for you to bench a QB that won you 10 games. 
Does anyone have any idea how many teams would like our cast off? WOW
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Does anyone have any idea how many teams would like our cast off? WOW
If Quinn shows he's as good in the preseason and in practices/camp and someone offers us the farm then I'm cool with trading DA.... i've said repeatedly that there are things that DA does that I'm not a huge fan of and I think Quinn has a better head on his shoulders... but you can't knock DA too much because he's a gamer (for the most part) and had an outstanding season. But if the coaches feel that Quinn is right there and we can get some defensive help for DA then I'm cool with trading him. If not then I'm giddy about having both of them next year
<><
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"Do you suppose that the Browns my have second thoughts on DA, because they realize that "IF" they could somehow find a way to unlock his potiential they would have a great QB. "
Its possible...they have a much wider data base than I so no matter how good my football is its not 100%. The way I see it DA would need the perfect pocket and possibly a hypnotist...and he can give us incredible accurate throws.
But again as I watch the playoffs and see the elite QBs simply make play after play where I know - If DA breaks out and slides to the right - then takes off...he won't hit that WR in the endzone who is wide open...it goes way off target out of bounds.
DA is not a bum...he has potential...he is young. But is he just OK...he's never proven otherwise. Except in warmups.
As for more time? Well the only reason...is for the fact there is no more time. My views on DA on the Browns with a contract in hand past 2010 would be of - OK lets see if he can hold off the talented Quinn and better himself. 2 good QBs can only be an asset. But I haven't created the circumstances and the circumstance is come March 1st he's no longer a Brown.
From all indications I have gotten Savage is looking to sign DA to 2-3 years. DA I can assume will look for a 5-7 year contract.
I don't see DA agreeing to an Interim Starter contract with future backup implications? Will Savage offer him 7 mil + per season? with some guarantees other than 5 mil signing bonus? Will DA accept.
I thin DA will try to see what the market will offer. he will not be so quick to sign what we offer. Possibly after none make him offers we can sign him after our tender???
What I do know is I don't know...and that is because DA is not a Brown in 08 signed sealed and delivered.
If so - its not too hard for me to say...I don't think so but you know what - he's here we got him and lets see how much better he can get.
Best ever...if those throws could be harnessed. But then there is the records of his Dr Jekyll an Mr. Hyde routine. Then there was the immediate disappearance of that fantastic ball he was throwing as soon as we had defenders...7 on 7's and then when we 11 on 11's with OL/DL...
Its not like he is 6'1" where you figure he has to get more experience with the vision...he's 6'5" and nothing should change.
I saw him good in games pretty much with straight drop backs and a pocket to step into. Not much else...there is a lot to expect of him in getting better.
JMHO - game time...got to run!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
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But I'm sure there will be those who question it AFTER it becomes "FACT".
And just what has DA ever said that would lead you to believe that it is a "FACT" that he is going to whine if BQ is named the starter?
Gawd........I love Brady's Brats. 
See, here's the miscommunication. IF in FACT BQ unseats DA as our starter, people WILL be questioning DA. IF the Browns have a problem working out a contract with DA, it will also happen.
Let me type a little "S L O W E R " for you Vers..............
IF BQ beats DA out in camp, you will hear the exact "same crap" you do every time there's a change at the QB position.
Firstly, DA will have his a shot at HUGE $$$$ if only ONE TEAM, feels he's better than anything they have a shot at drafting this year. If the QB's go #1 and #2 or #3, and you're sitting in the 4-7 range in need of a QB, what would you do? If you see that scenario as quite concievable, don't you think these GM's are weighing all of this out right now?
There's two trains of thought here Vers. Both are plausible. IF they see DA as our "franchise QB of the future", they'll pay him the "Shaub type" big $$$$. If not, they won't. But it won't be a "simple, quick deal".
At this juncture, you have NO VALID POINT!
Because you've been on message boards for YEARS! You know as well as I do the type of responses we'll be seeing here.
1. DA is being selfish. If he wanted to be here, he would sign. (remember BQ holding out?)
2. He needs to quit being a whiner and just sign already!
3. If he doesn't want to be here, to hell with him!
Okay Vers, go ahead and tell me "how wrong am I"?
Go ahead and tell me we WON'T see people questioning DA if he isn't willing to sign "on the cheap"? Tell me people won't be speculating and questioning "what's going on behind the scenes" if BQ beats out DA? So I probably didn't "phrase it just right", but hopefully this will clear it up.
Just like there will be another "deadbate". "Why would they bench a guy who went 10-5 as a starter last year?" It's always the same old same old Vers.
See, guys like us will understand it, but a lot of people won't. We see it EVERY TIME such a situation arises. We both know that what both the Browns and DA's agent are doing, "Is strictly business". DA's agent will want the VERY MOST that he feels he can get on the open market for DA. Phil will be trying to get the best possible deal for the Browns. Nothing personal nor whining about it.
But many WILL question DA if he doesn't sign OR gets unseated as our starter. The rumor mills and speculation will churn like butter. They always do.
Now if you just want to argue for the sake of argueing, you go right ahead. But no matter your thinking on this, any time we change QB's, have a contract hold out by a QB, or any QB contraversy, these very same assertions are made.
You telling me this would be the only acception EVER?
Besides Vers, if a guy has a shot at a 50 mil. dollar deal, we're not gonna match that. Or do you honestly think we would?
And, do you think DA's agent is or DA for that matter, is stupid enough to sign a 30 mil. dollar deal if they really believe they can get a 50 mil. dollar deal on the open market?
And do you feel Phil is stupid enough to pass up on draft picks and or player draft pick combination NOW, to only get a one year deal with DA and NOTHING at the end of next year when he's a UFA???
The options, when looking at them objectively, says that we're going to hear a LOT of Browns fans questioning if "DA is whining". They always do.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Lots of good stuff as always Pit. I'm just gonna go on record right now and say that I won't be surprised if we can't agree to a deal with DA by Feb. 29th. And I'm also going to say that I will not fault DA (or his agent) in the least for seeking more than we're willing to pay. People can call it whatever they want. But it's really just business, as you said. Either way, we come out of it looking pretty good, IMHO.
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Honest EO I don't know how you do it, but you always seem to capture at least something that I was thinking as well. Quote:
The way I see it DA would need the perfect pocket and possibly a hypnotist...and he can give us incredible accurate throws.
Then there is:::
Quote:
But again as I watch the playoffs and see the elite QBs simply make play after play where I know - If DA breaks out and slides to the right - then takes off...he won't hit that WR in the endzone who is wide open...it goes way off target out of bounds.
Both these comments are bound together IMHO.
I was thinking the same thing, all of the playoff teams bring pressure on the QB, and all the playoff teams have solid if not great O Lines, so if your goal is to make and win playoff games and go to the dance, then DA should give everyone second thoughts.
No he is no bum, and it is very possible that he can improve. He is limited when he has to move outside the pocket, and under playoff conditions I don't know how he would react. Thats what scares me most about DA. But then again hell you just never know with any player until their really under the gun. When trailing in games this season he has shown that he can play pretty well. And I actually think he does better the less he thinks. He may actually be a perfect QB to run the hurry up thru, because it would give him less time to think? He could light it up. Like you said EO the thing I do know is, that I don't know.
Then you come to the huge investment the Browns made in BQ, and make no mistake the investment was huge. I have never been a huge fan of the idea that because a guy is a 1st round pick he is automaticly a star. You got to prove it, and in about 50% of all 1st round QB picks there is a failed pick. So BQ is a 1st round pick, "so what", he has proven notta, zilch. And to that end at least DA has shown that he can lead this offense with some success, you just IMHO can't turn your back on that, and act like it never happened, IT DID... Was he perfect? nope !! Does he need to improve, and improve in area's that he seems to be awful at to this point? Sure does!!
The key IMHO is this where is BQ at? how do the coaches feel about his progress? Are they ready to discard DA in favor of a unproven rookie QB? Especially after DA did show he is at least somewhat capable.
I look back and I say several things to myself. If BQ had gone out in his 1st year as a starter and put up similar numbers to DA's would I be satisfied?? 29 TD's is nothing to sneeze at. Then again he had parts of his game that were terrible. But the things that he was terrible at, mainly the short dump offs is something he should be able to improve at. Then again I don't think he will ever be able to function well if he is put under duress and is forced to make plays, and in a playoff situation you have got to be able to function in that enviroment.
At the end of the day, I understand that we have a tough tough choice to make, and I agree with the idea that DA may only be offered a short term deal. If thats the case I think will move onto BQ to start next season, and see where that takes us, if he faulters DA will be handed back the starter roll, and BQ will be yet another 1st round QB that didn't have what it takes. I honest to God think BQ has what it takes, and he will lead this team to the playoffs and beyond for many a season to follow. And there is a lot to be said for any QB to take the rhiens and not have to look back and see someone standing there waiting for the moment they fail. At some point someone is going to have to make a tough decision, and delaying that decision could actually only make matters worse.
I sure as hell am glad I don't have to make any choices when it comes to this matter. Then again I don't have all the information the Browns do, either. I sure as hell hope that PS doesn't make a decision based on BQ's draft status, at this point he should be graded out based only on who is the best player, draft status be damned. I think people that make a huge deal about draft status are pretty shallow. Who and what is best should always be the guide.
I want to add this too. I think that the Browns will make as honest effort to be fair with DA, and they will give him every chance to lead this team next season. It's a dead lock IMHO that if the Browns get DA signed up will go thru the 2008 season with both DA and BQ. They will not sign him, if the deal isn't fair, and if the contract isn't to their liking ( Long term could be off the table). I think if the Browns do not or are not able to get DA under contract we will try to get a deal done(trade him), and just move on. In the long haul that may be whats best anyway...
JMHO
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j/c...
Here's a new topic for discussion...
How much do you think DA is worth, not in terms of draft picks, but in terms of money?
And on the flipside, how much does Savage think DA is worth, and how much does DA think he's worth.
Just a hunch, but I don't think we give him $20 million guaranteed. The Tony Romo contract is a ballpark figure that we could look at, maybe even the Matt Schaub deal.
The scary part about Romo's contract is it's gonna seem small as soon as next year...many think Romo took the "I finally made it so I'll sign this now and forever hold my peace" route that DA just might take, but surely agents know this and advise against it.
Basically, I think Savage offers DA a deal in the $10 million guaranteed range and DA doesn't accept. DA is tagged for a 1 and a 3.
I just can't see us offering big money...kinda similar to what the Steelers did with Tommy Maddox from the '02-03 offseason.
Stats are for losers, but if DA puts up 3500+ yards, 25+ TD's, 60+ completion % and less than 15 INT's for example...then I think it's safe to offer a long-term deal. Assuming the film shows that he's improved his weaknesses. JMHO.
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I see it about the same.
One thing I'm fairly certain of though.... if he does get a good sized signing bonus, he isn't going anywhere this year, not until after June 1 anyway.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
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But I'm sure there will be those who question it AFTER it becomes "FACT".
And just what has DA ever said that would lead you to believe that it is a "FACT" that he is going to whine if BQ is named the starter?
Gawd........I love Brady's Brats.
See, here's the miscommunication. IF in FACT BQ unseats DA as our starter, people WILL be questioning DA. IF the Browns have a problem working out a contract with DA, it will also happen.
Let me type a little "S L O W E R " for you Vers.............
I guess you should have typed slower, because although you wrote a novella, you still didn't answer the question.
What proof do you have that DA is going to whine if he is not named the starter? You said it was a "FACT" that he would whine. How do you know this? When has he ever whined?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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The question is from Grossi. The reply from RAC.
How do you plan on handling it in training camp next year?
It's a totally different situation. Derek won 10 games and Derek is the starter. He will be the starter in training camp. And we will continue to prepare Brady to be ready to play. The thing about training camp and preseason, we can give [Quinn] more reps than we can during the regular season once we start game-planning. So he's got to try to take advantage of those reps as he can. He is still one play away. To be totally honest with you, how often does a quarterback stay on his feet through 16 games? Not many times does that happen. I'm not trying to jinx us, but quarterbacks take a beating in this league. And generally you've got to have two of them that you feel good about and know when one goes down, you can put the other one in and have a chance.
What's unique is both these guys are in the same age bracket and both have their best football ahead of them. There aren't many quarterback rosters like that.
It is a unique circumstance. Because in today's game that doesn't happen very often. I don't know how long it will happen here or we can keep it like that. But I think at least for another year, we should be able to keep it that way. And let's say something happens and the backup has to play. Then he goes in and plays. Then down the road we'll have a decision to make. Just like San Diego had to make a decision with their quarterback situation. And when we get to that bridge, get ready to cross it, then we'll make the decision on what's best for the Browns at that time.
Do you all think it is still such a slam dunk? *L*
Has anyone other than Otto addressed this yet? Or, do you think it will be like it was never said, if you all ignore it? Kinda like the tree in the forest thing? LOL
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I didn't respond because it is what I have been saying for a while.
DA is the starter....the coach agrees.
Both guys are young and both guys have their best football ahead of them......a telling comment.....DA is off a good year no matter what some say, and the coach still sees upside in the kid.
He acknowledges it is probably impossible to keep both long term, but another year shouldn't be a problem.
There is a bridge to cross, but it doesn't have to be crossed at this time.
He also mentioned that a decision has to be made....which means a decision hasn't yet been made.....indicating to me anyway that any trade somewhere down the road doesn't have to involve DA. It could still involve Quinn.
Somewhere on this thread or another someone said DA would start whining if he didn't play. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. From where I sit, with all the history of draft choice, holdouts and the like, it is probably far more likely Quinn will be the one to whine if he doesn't play next year ....even that is a stretch, but IMO more likely if whining is to take place.
Simply because DA is now a fairly proven qb....if he doesn't get another shot here, he will elsewhere. Brady on the other hand is in a contract that is heavy on incentives that requires he play to see the cash.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
I guess you should have typed slower, because although you wrote a novella, you still didn't answer the question.
What proof do you have that DA is going to whine if he is not named the starter? You said it was a "FACT" that he would whine. How do you know this? When has he ever whined?
It's human nature, for one, to be upset when you lose your job especially when you feel your best years are yet to come. Secondly, I think what happened in the San Fran game says a lot about DA's personal feelings over his security over the QB position.
He was hurt, probably should not have gone back into the game, but still did. Now yes, one could argue "That's DA's competitive spirit and toughness showing through." But part of me doesn't fully believe that.
He won't "whine" per say...honestly I think he'll handle it more maturely than Timid did.
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"Has anyone other than Otto addressed this yet? Or, do you think it will be like it was never said, if you all ignore it?"
Its not like some validation of victory.
Actually I did notice this and I did get a sense that RAC really likes DA. Then again I have been stating that RAC was behind DA from the entire creation of "The Competition". It also was evident again when he put DA in as the starter and pretty much showed where his preference in that QB issue was.
There is a slight void that prohibits you as a DA backer from stating - hey its in black n white.
It simply has to do with the fact that DA is not signed yet for the 08 season or beyond. Pretty hard to put your money on that horse...for the simple fact come 3/1 he aint a Brown. That sort of puts a damper on the whole statement doesn't it.
One question if you wish to answer. What makes you think DA will sign our offer we will make? Wouldn't it be more prudent for him to test the FA market to see his value? Its not like his status would change here for doing so. Its not like Holcomb saying wait - cause we got the tender process.
Savage hinted not too long ago that a 2-3 year contract would be considered long term by him. I really don't think DA is looking for such a contract. If that is what Savage offers - he won't take it. Unless it has some sick money involved.
I truly can't say what is going to happen. Without a doubt RAC seems to like DA and if signed looks like DA will be mapped out as the starter for Pre-Season and BQ will get 2-3 quarters a game and oddly probably more reps with the starters than DA - 
If BQ plays lights out - ya really think DA starts over him? If BQ stumbles a bit sure I see it. But really you can't stick out this as some vindication. In summary:
1. DA ain't signed...I know thats a slight bump in the road.
2. BQ will get the majority of the Pre-Season reps and this is good for DA? Its still all there then for BQ to step in...maybe the 2nd qtr of the first game
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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i know this was a question for vers, but if ya don't mind i'll take a crack at it... Quote:
One question if you wish to answer. What makes you think DA will sign our offer we will make? Wouldn't it be more prudent for him to test the FA market to see his value? Its not like his status would change here for doing so. Its not like Holcomb saying wait - cause we got the tender process.
Savage hinted not too long ago that a 2-3 year contract would be considered long term by him. I really don't think DA is looking for such a contract. If that is what Savage offers - he won't take it. Unless it has some sick money involved.
da may very well want to test the market, but staying here is a pretty good choice if the cash is right...not to mention a great o line and running game....and a stud receiver and te...
its my belief that we want to get da signed because we want to control negotiations...if it gets to the tender stage, then a poison pill could kill us...
i believe that we want to keep him, cause if he improves in whats basically his 2nd year as a starter, then we may have a pretty good qb...sure would suck to get rid of him and have quinn flop...
signing him gives us the chance to further evaluate him and then make a decision...gotta make the right choice here...
now comes the question of cash....we'll have to throw a nice sum at him, and we could because of our cap room...i don't even think the years matter, unless you count how far we spread the hit out....the guaranteed cash is what will get him to stay...
now after a year if he's iffy, and we are leaning towards quinn then another team can trade for him, with little cap hit on there end...in other words we take the cap hit...and use it as leverage for better draft picks...looks like a great deal for a cash strapped team that needs a starting qb....so next year we could have 2 first rounders instead of one...and we still have quinn at cheap contract because he didn't reach most of his incentives...
the other option, is da plays lights out, earns his cash, and a restructured long term contract, and we trade quinn...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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I know the Brown's would be a great environment for him...but its a business. This is his livelihood and he has a 10 year window to make all the money he can to last him and his heirs a lifetime.
If we offer a 3 year contract with 5 mil signing bonus...will he take it?
Not saying thats our offer...what I'm saying is we won't take any offers off the table.
We will tender him and then he will have a clearer sign of what he is worth on the market. I think he would be a fool to take our offer without seeking what the FA market brings.
We sign him to a 5 year + contract Romo-ish as the guy...sure he signs it. And then I would say....well guess he's the man cause we just committed to him.
See I think we want him cause we are not sure BQ is ready...if not its great to have him to fall back on.
The bit about 2 starting QBs cause look around the NFL teams need two QBs....yeah if you have McNabb, Garcia as your QBs.
Favre, Manning, Manning, Romo, Brady these guys have taken all the starts for years??? Romo n Eli just starting their run. Especially from the success and non-hits DA took with our OL...I don't see why we would think it necessary to keep two high caliber QBs on our roster. Obviously one will eventually go. Savage has stated definitely not BQ.
I totally understand how we could want him here as a Safeguard in case BQ ain't what we think he is. Or as a safeguard if one gets injured. Do we not care about the draft this year? Does Savage feel this years draft is weak? Does Savage think 09's draft will be strong so another year of DA and his trade value will go up?
Do we sign DA and then trade him for a team desperate cause of injuries in Pre-Season for 09 Picks???
As mentioned I really don't know. I really don't think DA showed he was special. He was OK...is this the company line? Do we really like DA?
Why isn't he signed yet?
"its my belief that we want to get da signed because we want to control negotiations."
I just feel that its very odd to start talking about DA as the starter on the eve of our negotiations....just odd way to control negotiations???
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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Quote:
If we offer a 3 year contract with 5 mil signing bonus...will he take it?
Not saying thats our offer...what I'm saying is we won't take any offers off the table.
We will tender him and then he will have a clearer sign of what he is worth on the market. I think he would be a fool to take our offer without seeking what the FA market brings.
We sign him to a 5 year + contract Romo-ish as the guy...sure he signs it. And then I would say....well guess he's the man cause we just committed to him.
i don't know if he would take that, but i would start with something like that and go up from there...
this team has like 30 million i cap space.....now i know we are gonna get some fa's for the d, and i know that cap hits are usually spread out over the length of the contract...but do they have to be? suppose we offered him a five year contract, and 10 million guaranteed, but spread the hit over just one or two years ( i'm assuming you can do that) all you are in essence doing is giving away a bunch of randy's cash to make sure you get the right guy...it's not like we are gonna spend that cash until there is no cap left....
now we've kept him from free agency, and we have a very tradable qb, or a cap friendly qb for us down the road...
now his agent may want him to go test the market because sure a team might offer him more...that makes me nervous, cause i would hate to lose him if we really want to keep him....sure the picks would be nice, but there is no guaratee that they will be good starters...
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Favre, Manning, Manning, Romo, Brady these guys have taken all the starts for years??? Romo n Eli just starting their run. Especially from the success and non-hits DA took with our OL...I don't see why we would think it necessary to keep two high caliber QBs on our roster. Obviously one will eventually go. Savage has stated definitely not BQ.
thats a valid point, and something i'm sure they will weigh....if we had our line of old, i would say we need 2 for sure...heck sometimes we needed 3 or 4  don't want to see that happen again....
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I totally understand how we could want him here as a Safeguard in case BQ ain't what we think he is. Or as a safeguard if one gets injured. Do we not care about the draft this year? Does Savage feel this years draft is weak? Does Savage think 09's draft will be strong so another year of DA and his trade value will go up?
i think they just wanna be sure that they aren't letting a potential gem get away...the injury thing is minor, imo because of our line, but anything can happen....sure would suck for us to be winning and our season go down the tube because our qb gets hurt....
the part about the draft i didn't think of, but thats a good point....well if anyone knows about the draft its savage sure is nice to have players that other teams might want huh
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Do we sign DA and then trade him for a team desperate cause of injuries in Pre-Season for 09 Picks???
As mentioned I really don't know. I really don't think DA showed he was special. He was OK...is this the company line? Do we really like DA?
Why isn't he signed yet?
we'll we always could trade him, this comes down to offers, and what we think we could get in the draft in return
and sure da was just ok, but he wasen't terrible....great throw...crappy throw....hot half, cold half....all i can say is it was his first year....he might regress, he might turn gold...who knows...
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I just feel that its very odd to start talking about DA as the starter on the eve of our negotiations....just odd way to control negotiations???
JMHO
this one i'm not worried about in the least....all they did was state facts.....he IS the starter.....he's an alternate to the probowl....saying anything else is just b.s. and everyone knows it...he's gonna get starter money, or he's gonna walk....
and lastly the great thing is, i don't think we would be commited to him as our starter if we gave him the cash.....the skin's would...cause they don't have any cap space....we do....
and the best thing of all is we are paying him with the incentives that brady would lose for not being the starter....so it might not be a wash, but it would lessen the hit.....
don't know what brady was supposed to get but i thought i read on here that if he met the incentives his contract would move into the top 10 for cash....pay the money to the proven guy....not the guy with potential....
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This is how I see it going down..
PS to DA's agent. Here is what we are willing to do.
#1 We are willing to make your client the highest paid player at the QB position for the 2008 season.
Further we guarantee that DA will be afforded every opportunity to be the Browns starting QB for the 2008 season. If it should come to pass that he is not our starter, we will guarantee your client that we will do our utmost to find a new home for him following the season.
In return this is what we want.
We want a 3 year deal with options, we want a contract that is for 3 years that is void of guaranteed money, until DA reaches his option year at which time we would be willing to guarantee 30 Million
Year 2 and year 3 will pay DA 7.5 per season, and from there we can work out the details on base salary, for the option years.
This is our 1st and only offer, the player can take the deal whenever he is ready. In the interim we will be tendering DA for a 1 and a 3 so it is unlikely you will find any suitors, that will leave your client in a position to collect 2.5 Mill in dollars for this season, and perhaps he will get a better deal somewhere else come next off season. It is our desire to have DA be a part of this team this season, and it is unlikely to play out otherwise so I would take the money NOW.
Agent; My client wants a signing bonus and he wants guaranteed money, along with a long term deal that will guarantee his long term financial future.
PS get me a 1 and 3 and he and you can work out any deal you want.. Look the deal has to be to the likings of both parties, were not trying to be cheep. And to be honest we want DA here in case BQ fails. That however doesn't mean that if BQ doesn't really really shine in the preseason for us that DA won't be the starter, he will be. We have and will continue to publicly state that DA is the starter, and he will be "IF" BQ doesn't outplay him. As I said DA will be given the 1st bite of the apple, I stand by that. He isn't going to have any guarantee of money with a 2,5 Mill tender deal. As you know there is always the chance no matter how unlikely that your client could go down with a career ending injury, he will collect every dollar and be the highest paid QB for 2008, that should go a long way towards his financial future.
From there who knows but if the pot is sweet enough for 2008 and he gets a unbelievable deal in terms of now dollars he will sign I think. I like DA's position and I like the Browns position. The browns can stuff a deal down DA's throat if they want too, by use of the tender, and DA can walk after next season if he wants.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not rip me for dollars it's just a concept not a set in stone deal. I think this is how you get a deal done tho.. A deal that has its good and bad points for both parties, the middle ground if you will.
Brown to the Bone
BTTB
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Whatever the offer, it will probably have to be a nice step up from the Quinn deal. No way DA sticks here where he will potentially be making less than his back-up again(that assumes he wins the job..that is another story line)
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Dude...... 
Quote:
PS to DA's agent. Here is what we are willing to do.
#1 We are willing to make your client the highest paid player at the QB position for the 2008 season.
What the Hell is that?!?!
Payton Manning: $11.5 million for 2008
So we're going to give DA a deal for $12 million dollars in the first year.
I don't think so.
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Further we guarantee that DA will be afforded every opportunity to be the Browns starting QB for the 2008 season.
Really? Are you sure?!?! I mean, afterall, it's not like we're guaranteeing that he's the top paid QB or anything
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We want a 3 year deal with options, we want a contract that is for 3 years that is void of guaranteed money, until DA reaches his option year at which time we would be willing to guarantee 30 Million
So you want his agent to accept a deal with ZERO guaranteed money whatsoever, BUT you're going to give him your solemn word that in three years he's going to get $30 million in guaranteed money?!?!
I must have a defective calender, because this is obviously April 1st.
If Anderson has an injury or plays ineffectively during that first year, he has ZERO guaranteed money to fall back on and his shot at a big payday is OVER. He's cut, on the open market, and is forced to sign a deal for a few million and compete for a starting gig with the likes of Rex Grossman and Chad Pennington.
There isn't an agent in the entire world that would be dumb enough to take that deal. 
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This is our 1st and only offer, the player can take the deal whenever he is ready.
Er.......That should read our "ONE and only offer" as "1st" implies, you know, that there'll be more. And the player can take the deal "whenever he is ready"....WTF is THAT supposed to mean? Yeah, that's showing a good-faith effort. "Take it or leave it......but we're here whenever you're ready. No rush"
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In the interim we will be tendering DA for a 1 and a 3 so it is unlikely you will find any suitors, that will leave your client in a position to collect 2.5 Mill in dollars for this season, and perhaps he will get a better deal somewhere else come next off season. It is our desire to have DA be a part of this team this season, and it is unlikely to play out otherwise so I would take the money NOW.
Sure, go at DA's agent like you're a slick car salesman (apologies GM ) going after the dumb blonde that hasn't ever purchased anything more expensive than a 4-pack of lip gloss at Walgreen's Yeah.....THAT will go over really well
Might as well just come right out and tell him that he doesn't have a leg to stand on, you don't respect him as a business man, and that he has zero leverage in this thing, so he might as well save his time and effort and just sign whatever you put in front of him.
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PS get me a 1 and 3 and he and you can work out any deal you want..
Might as well kick DA right in the ass considering how friendly that sounds. Sure dude, that REALLY shows DA's agent that you want him here
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were not trying to be cheep.
Yes....you are. Oh sure, you're willing to give him big money for one year, but you're not willing to give him any guarantees that he's the longterm answer at the position. That's EXACTLY what DA's agent will want. Anything else is a huge gamble that most agents aren't going to be dumb enough to take. Quote:
And to be honest we want DA here in case BQ fails.
Did you see that? No? That was the ass-end of DA's agent as it was heading out the door. And that loud crack? That was your office door being slammed in your face, combined with various colorful and perhaps even illegal curse-words aimed in your direction for basically telling his agent that DESPITE everything you've previously said, Quinn is your guy and Anderson is going to ride beoch.
Congrats! You've just created a level of animosity between DA, his agent, and the organization that cannot possibly be repaired. Anderson's agent will now want a REDICULOUS amount of guaranteed money to sign, or he'll ride out the tender and become an unrestricted free agent next year.
April 1st.......it MUST be April 1st........
Look, if the idea is to make Anderson prove himself........YOU DON'T HAVE TO GIVE HIM $12 MILLION! You're allready willing to let him walk if we can get a 1st and a 3rd. So all you REALLY have to do is let him ride out the tender for $2.5 million. All you've done is give away......oh....about $10 million dollars for no good reason.
Just let DA ride out the tender and go from there. Too many people are making this FAR FAR FAR too complicated.
If Savage thinks DA is the starter for the forseeable future, DA gets a big contract with a hefty signing bonus. If Savage doesn't, DA gives a low-balled contract with the idea that Anderson is GONE for a 1st and a 3rd, or Anderson plays out the year earning a BIG raise for a solid but far-from-great year.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Just like ALWAYS toad the only idea that has any merit with you is your own.. Thats fine you have proven to me on more then one occasion that you hold only your own opinion as being valid. Continue in your persuit of ignorance, it suits your style... The idea is this, DA most likely would want a guarantee, and a signing bonus, the signing bonus part is something we would have to spred out over time, "IF", he remains here. So if we side stepped the signing bonus by including it in the 1st year we wouldn't take a hit next season "IF" we traded him later. We do have available cap space now, but in the future cap space could become an issue. So you roll the signing bonus money into a deal now. You missed that part altogether, most likely because like always your mouth is open and your ears are closed shut. So are we really giving DA more money then PM in the long hall, yes and no. But you missed that because as always your mouth gets ahead of your brain.. Yeah yeah yeah he would be crazy, what would be even crazier is for him to pass up the deal and end up going in the crapper, or worse yet experiencing a career ending injury. It could be that DA and his agent want to stick their foot in the water and see what the market will bear. Thats a given no matter what the Browns offer is. At the end of the day you can't see an advantage to DA, fine you run with that idea. That is your right. But try to come up with something that is workable from both sides, and remember the Browns don't want to make a long term commitment to DA, or at least not right now, just try to consider that possiblity. Then you work up a deal where both parties come out happy. Instead of knocking others lets hear what your ideas are... Brown to the Bone
BTTB
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Dude, it's not a question of Toad's opinion over yours. It's plausible vs. implausible. All he did was point out how your mock-negotiation would fail miserably. I had this "discussion" with you on another thread. You offer up a scenario without thinking about the validity of that actually occuring. And then when someone points that out, you accuse them of being ignorant and shallow-minded. It's not that we can't see your point-of-view because we're too blinded by our own thoughts and beliefs. It's that we see it and realize how improbable it is.
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Great breakdown Toad! The voice of reason has entered.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Ok you all know so much lets here what you would do to try to get DA signed up. Your quick to point out I don't know chit. Ok you got me I am not a contract guru. I thought I would perhaps bring about some good debate, and in the process learn something I don't know.. So lets hear it. How do we get it done. if you know that I am wrong then you must know what it will take to get it done. Great tell me, I want to learn. It must be my lucky day I have 3 contract Guru's to teach me... Brown to the Bone
BTTB
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One need not be a contract guru to grasp the validity of overtoad's scenario.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Quote:
Ok you all know so much lets here what you would do to try to get DA signed up. Your quick to point out I don't know chit. Ok you got me I am not a contract guru. I thought I would perhaps bring about some good debate, and in the process learn something I don't know..
So lets hear it. How do we get it done. if you know that I am wrong then you must know what it will take to get it done.
Great tell me, I want to learn. It must be my lucky day I have 3 contract Guru's to teach me...
Brown to the Bone
Well to be honest...I'm no contract guru, but that contract idea is INSANE and is quite frankly one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.
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You don't have to "be a guru". It's a "business deal". Firstly, you would have to know precisely how much or how badly Phil wishes to retain DA. In other words, exactly what is "DA's value to Phil"? Secondly, it's like any other business venture, Phil WON'T show his hand. And, like any good businessman, you "posture" to get the best offers possible FOR DA. Here's an example. Phil said DA will be our starter next year. Really? He's not even under contract! This is pure "posturing". If every GM in the NFL feels he WILL be the starting QB here, it sends the message that Phil has a high value of DA. But the reality is, if a player is not under contract, there's no way to "name him the starter" with any certainty. Thus, posturing. Do I believe Phil wants to keep him here? Yes I do. But at what cost? We've seen Kelly Holcomb go bye bye because he "wanted more than Phil felt he was worth". So what is the "threshold"? Now you must look at the market. Shaub got 48 mil with much less starting experience or wins than DA. The salary cap goes up every year, so we're looking at 50 mil + for DA IF we want to sign him "before he becomes a RFA". Does Phil feel an "insurance policy for Quinn" is worth 50+ mil? I don't believe he does. And as Toad pointed out, you don't give a guy who is 28th in accuracy in the league Peyton Manning money! So yes, Phil wants to keep him here, but all you have to do is look at Phils track record to see it WON'T be "at any price". IMO, Phil will make him a "reasonable yet rather low ball figure" and let him take it, or hit the RFA market. At that point, depending on the offers, we either beat that offer, or let him walk in return for draft picks. Why offer him a HUGE contract, when in fact, nobody else may be willing to pony up the big bucks and draft picks to sign him? Your question is "How do we keep him?". When the real question is, what is the breaking point of wheather he stays or goes? JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Pit hit the nail right on the head there. Post of the day fo sho.
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Some of you guys have awesome attention spans, cuz you keep writing and writing and writing and writing... then you finally hit the submit button. 
gmstrong -----------------
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If you don't want ganged up on, don't ask for it. Teams can't put a contract on the table and say take it or leave it anymore. Furthermore, Phil Savage has been working really hard building a reputation as a fair person. He doesn't lowball, or overpay. He is fair. No matter how you dice it, take it or leave it isn't fair.
Go Irish!
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"this team has like 30 million i cap space.."
I wanted to touch on this again. Right now we have 30 mil in cap space. This is true but we have to deal with this and the signing of FA's with some control.
No matter how good the talent...we will overpay by going through the FA market.
We also are soon embarking on a new experience for this football team.
2nd contracts to successful drafted and other youthful players!
KW, Sean Jones, BE, Pool, Bodden, Wimbley, Cribbs, DQ, Joe Thomas, EW
We also have the maturation of some FA contracts that are successful.
Steinbach, Shaffer (got to replace him but with an upgrade no anything).
DA? BQ in 4 more seasons.
We can't look at 30 mil and then spend, spend, spend. We are coming into virgin territory...Big time 2nd contracts on players just coming into their Prime!
All I'm saying we can't look at 08 and 30 mil in cap space...we got to do it with the FUTURE in mind.
Brown to the Bone.
A highly unlikely scenario which I'm sure will cause you to catch some heat I'm sure. We give fair offers but heck thats a little unorthodox and why it narrow down the liklihood tremendously.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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i'm not suggesting that we do like the skins and go crazy....what i was implying is that it would probably take that kind of guaranteed cash to get him to sign any contract....and if thats the case, and we want him we have to pay it....
what i was infering with the cap was not to make a contract with dead money on the cap long after da could possibly be gone, but structure it in a way that its over and done with, and then we'll have the space to resign our guys just like you say.....
heck this could just be posturing by phil to get a first and third for him...who knows....
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don't forget to add about $8M to that $30M from the Pontbriand deal
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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something about $8M in what was deemed to be "likely to be earned bonuses" that he never achieved. It counted against the '07 cap, but not being reached it counts as a credit on the '08 cap. He would have had to have played in like 90% of all Special Teams plays to have gotten the bonus.
Something like that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
What deal?
In his last contract there was about 8mil of incentives that could never be met....and they weren't....something about playing X% of special team snaps.......that counted against the cap last year, since it wasn't met, we get a credit this year.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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1st String
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baxter and bentley had their contracts restructured as well, so i think we got an extra 2 or 3 mil from that....
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