DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Are we tanking?

we had the best of both worlds last game - looked OK with the QB, competed and lost

I bet you're just a blast at parties.

What background is it you have in NFL coaching again?

Come on now ... what experience do any of the posters have of being an NFL coach? GM may be the closest thing? ... using that as a way to dismiss any opinion you don't like is really futile. In essense if we comply with that thought process no-one posts any opinion of 'football matters' because none are NFL coaches.

You could have said the same thing who were critical of any of our head coaches or GMs from Hue Jackson to Phil Savage ... it would not have made those opinions invalid.

I think Stefanski is a below average head coach. It's not based on this season with a banged up low talent offense ... it's based on multiple years of being the HC of the Browns, 2 of which were good. But throughout he's shown the same tendancies of getting pass happy, calling cute plays, poor discipline, good opening drives followed by zero adjustment and being out coached time and again by the opposing team - and week in week out through the years we look inept and poorly managed, the weekly "I must do better" - "we most do better!" - and yet there is zero accountability. I would have fired the ST coach 3 games ago. . . . but after the last 2 weeks, a potted plant could replace the ST coach and we'd be better off.

Just like when Hue got his chance after 2 disasterous seasons, it **appears** we'll see Berry and KS leading/coaching the team and the draft and free agency again next year. No-one's opinion on this board is going to influence the decision. Debate the opinion, don't slam the poster.

[quote=PitDAWG]I bet you're just a blast at parties.

Coming from you,that is hilarious.

I'm a blast at parties! I just don't discuss politics at parties.

And let's face it, at my age I don't go to many parties anymore.

I'm certainly not opposed to differing viewpoints. I think we both know that isn't the issue here. But at some point it becomes an obsession to the degree at which we hear it ad nauseam from the exact same people. That's usually the point at which I throw a little sarcasm in their direction.

I would certainly not try to defend Stefanski to the point of being some great NFL HC. But as much as people will say what they will, there have only been two seasons when the Browns have had decent and healthy QB's on their roster since he has been here. And one year it was Flacco after being pulled off of his couch. In both cases he made the very most of the talent he had. In the case of Flacco especially he took a mediocre journeyman and certainly got the most possible out of what was left of his skill set.

I felt Hue needed an opportunity to show what he could do with more talent on the roster. He was given that opportunity and failed miserably at it. That meant it was time for him to go. In both seasons where Stefanksi had any semblance of talent at the QB position that has not been shown to be the case. There really is no comparison there.

Pass happy is a somewhat vague term used as a generalization. The objective each week is to break down your opponent and try to exploit their weaknesses. Each week you also must look at your own injuries in determining which is the best method to about attacking your opponents. Two factors people often ignore for the most part and totally fail to mention is the scoreboard and time clock when using the generalization "pass happy". We both know if the game is getting away from you and the time clock is ticking down there comes a point when throwing the ball becomes pretty much the only option you have left. That information doesn't show up on a stat sheet.

Every team has gadget plays. When they work people praise a HC's innovative approach and imagination. When they fail we see the kind of comments you just made about them. It actually has nothing to do with the plays at all. It has to do with whether the players execute those plays well or not.

When it comes to accountability I agree with you. At the same time I don't see unrealistic expectations as being the same thing.

You see it wasn't Stefanski who signed the watson deal. Sure he may have had some input into the decision but there are two layers above him that are the deciding factor and who make that final call. That cost the Browns big time. It put a stranglehold on having the ability to sign upper level FA's. It cost three first round draft picks and then some. As such I often see what we call accountability being placed in the wrong direction. Stefanksi isn't the reason this roster is so bereft of talent. With the OL and WR situation he is dealing with I think people believing he could get much more out of this O are far more guilty of unrealistic expectations than anything people can point to that Stefanski has done this season.

As I stated I don't think Stefanski is a great NFL HC. That's not my argument here. My argument is that it seems to me he gets a lot of blame for some things that are well beyond his control.

Exactly. Common sense has to rule out in this situation. We just had a great draft. It would be really dumb IMO to change our HC and GM. A move like that would set us back even further. Let Berry have another draft and FA signings. Give Sheduer time to develop and see where we stand after that. If we make the right moves this offseason we can contend for the division next year.

Besides CoachB?

no one.

I think Bond is someone who could round out into a legit NFL starter, and Corley has some interesting skills that should keep him on the roster.

I can understand arguments for and against Jeudy being part of any long-terms plans whatsoever.

I think Bond is someone who could round out into a legit NFL superstar.

He's an athletic freak with elite speed who, with a little work and determination, could be an elite route-runner as well.

You must remember the skill set for Browns receivers is route running and YAC.

The two rookie QBs have struggled with the timing needed in this offense. Sanders has improved these last two games.

To say the receivers are garbage is misleading; the quarterbacks need better timing on their intermediate throws. How many times have we seen passes thrown late, high, and low? Yes, receivers must catch the ball, but to take advantage of their skill set, the quarterback must lead the receiver open with anticipation throws. This comes with a better understanding of defensive pass coverage.

The Browns do not have the elite receivers, but they have enough good receivers. The quarterbacks must get better.

In actuality, if Sanders improves his timing, this whole offense improves. The Bears will be a good test this Sunday.

I kinda feel the same way. Great speed and if he can keep his nose clean and put a full offseason/TC in, he might turn out to be a legit WR in the NFL.