DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus The Dems... again

If someone does not work and does not pay for healthcare. Why should other people work and support that person getting healthcare. That is not right. If you don't work, you don't eat in every sense of the word.

Are you so naive that you don't understand how many people who work full time in this nation that can't afford healthcare? I wonder if when Jesus healed people he asked if they worked full time?

It's time for you to find Jesus rather than just proclaim you already have.

Claiming that people that aren't working should starve and not be able to see a doctor isn't Christian in any way. That's why people are walking away from religions that teach what you preach. And actually I don't know of many religions that do teach what you preach. They at least attempt to teach the word of Jesus.

About one third of all people receiving SNAP benefits are on social security.

Roughly 22 million households receiving SNAP benefits have at least one household member working full time.

You have created your own little bubble of what you think rather than see things the way they are.

Funny here is what the Bible says and that is God's Word and Jesus is God. KJ21
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you: that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Here is something else the Bible says about people who do not work. KJ21
But if any provide not for his own, and especially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith and is worse than an infidel.

Sorry but these are verses that states what God thinks of someone who will not work. It does not say give them health care that someone else paid for. It does not say take tax dollars from someone and give to them. It does command us to feed the poor but not thru government robbing us to take care of others as socialism does.

You seem to forget that the New Testament came after the Old Testament.......................

Matthew 25:31-46

The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

It does not say set up a government to take from some to give to others. It is instruction to his church how they are to meet needs. Not instructions for a government to rob some to give to others. There are no Biblical principles in socialism. None. To try to use scripture to drive an agenda is wrong. You post this all of the time. Again, it is instructions for believers how to live.

Nowhere does it say or limit what method of how these people should be cared for either way. And it's a message to the people. It's a warning that if you do not follow this message you will face eternal punishment. You can do your best to slice it and dice it any way you wish. The message and words are plain and clear.

Have fun explaining, "I didn't want them to be fed because the government was running the program. And I believed that where and how that food got to them meant more than making sure they were actually fed. I mean after all you didn't specify that part."

Wait and see how that one works out for you. And good luck with that.

Who was he speaking to? There is context to every Word written. It was not to a government. But you have proven over and over to only listen and spew out what you think fits inside your sick agendas anyway.

He was speaking to self proclaimed Christians and showing them in order to attain eternal life you had a duty to make sure the people with less than yourself were cared for. He said nothing about what method was to be used in order to accomplish that one way or the other.

Yes, me wanting to insure that those with less than myself are cared for is such a sick agenda. Oddly enough that's the same "sick" message and agenda Jesus taught.

Think again. I quoted New Testament verses that said if you don't work you don't eat. And if you don't take care of your family your worse than infidel. The translation of infidel is someone that says there is no God. That person is choosing internal punishment and someone that does not provide for their family is worse than that. You cannot pick and choose scriptures that fit your agenda. They are all teachings and work together.

And I quoted a complete story Jesus directly sent to the people of how they had a choice of insuring the poor were cared for or go to hell. Why do you think I can't pick and choose scriptures to bolster my point while you do the same thing? I didn't pick a verse from here and there. I gave you a complete quotation of a compete message he sent.

You are arguing with the agenda of Jesus, not mine. What part of that message is confusing you?

No, you are using a message to attempt to justify socialism when the evil of socialism is far from Christian. That message Jesus spoke about is how believers need to treat people. No where in those words does Jesus say take from 1 person and give to another. That is what the government does. It says what we need to do not be forced to do by a government. There is a huge difference from a person graciously given vs a government taking from 1 to give to another. Jesus never forced anyone to do anything. Socialism forces some people to give up money and then the government gives that money to someone else. That was never implied in the words spoken by Jesus as you claim.

Jesus didn't think providing for the poor as socialism.


By law you must pay taxes. I didn't make that decision. As such it's no longer about taking from you in order to give it to others. At that point it's a question of how they spend the money they already took from you.


Once again, the government takes that money anyway. All you're arguing at that point is that they shouldn't be spending any of that money taking care of the poor. Something the government could actually do that Jesus supports.


No he did not. He just let you know that making sure the poor were cared for hinges on your eternal salvation.


My claim is that he never spelled out how or who makes sure the poor are taken care of as long as you make sure they are taken care of. You propose our tax dollars be spent on everything but taking care of the poor. That's not the same thing.

What you are fighting against here is that the money we as citizens already pay not help the poor. They take it from us anyway.

And I guess I need to remind you again since it obviously didn't sink in the first time...........


2 Corinthians 9:7: Emphasizes that God honors a willing attitude. The KJV states: "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."

Proverbs 21:13: Warns of the consequences of ignoring the cries of the poor: "Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard."

Proverbs 28:27: Provides a promise regarding generosity: "He that giveth unto the poor shall not lack: but he that hideth his eyes shall have many a curse."

Amos: Condemned the wealthy elite who "trample on the needy" and "sell the innocent for silver, and the needy for a pair of sandals" (Amos 2:6, 8:4).

Isaiah: Denounced lawmakers who wrote unjust statutes to rob the poor of their rights and prey on widows and orphans (Isaiah 10:1-2).

Jeremiah: Warning kings to execute justice, rescue the robbed, and stop mistreating the foreigner, orphan, and widow (Jeremiah 22:3)

Proverbs 14:31: "Whoever oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God."

Proverbs 22:16: "Whoever oppresses the poor for increase, and whoever gives to the rich, will surely come to poverty."

Proverbs 22:22-23: Warns not to exploit the poor because the Lord will plead their case and plunder those who plunder them.

And all you have to say is "Not with my tax dollars I have to pay anyway! I have to pay it anyway but I don't want a dime of that money going to the poor!" That's just sad and shameful.

It's an instruction to everyone. All people, regardless of culture/tribe.


So while it's not necessarily pointing at the US government, it is talking to people who would call themselves believers.

Jesus famously said, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's" (found in Matthew 22:21 and Mark 12:17). He spoke this to avoid a political trap, meaning people should fulfill their civic duties (like paying taxes) while dedicating their ultimate, spiritual allegiance to God.

And that's where I'm at. If you have to pay it anyway it's nice to see at least some of the money going back to the people who need it most.

And I'm not talking about healthy people who are able and fit to work unless their incomes are just so low they need some assistance. It doesn't make sense to me to live in a system where people aren't being paid enough to make a living but people begrudge those working or retired people benefits to help them make it. I would certainly agree that the current system of benefits isn't perfect. That it should be more closely monitored. But this crazy notion that everyone receiving such benefits are nothing but freeloaders looking for a handout is preposterous.

Me as well.

How would you in all your knowledge handle those fit to work? That number is actual quite large anymore. They do not deserve health insurance paid and a monthly income from tax payers.