DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Myles Garrett Traded

Regarding Campbell... I think as long as we stick to a predominantly man coverage scheme, he shouldn't take significant steps back in terms of his performance within the D. Anytime you lose a player like Garrett, you're going to feel it, but in getting Verse I think we mitigated a lot of that impact. Garrett was #2 in QB hits in 2026, Verse was #6. I used QB hits because we're talking about our DE's impact on our CBs' performance. I do think the CBs are going to have a harder time covering w/o Garrett up front, but I don't think it's going to be a precipitous fall.

There are a lot of moving parts going on with our defense right now. 2nd year players (ex. Graham, Schwesinger) need to continue to develop, the new LB needs to fill Devin Bush's shoes, and we gotta see how well the new coaching staff can pick up where Schwartz left off, and potentially our new rookies getting involved (our new safety, mostly). I expect a small slide, but this team is basically in the same boat as last year because it largely go as far as the defense can carry it.

FWIW: they were not Top 10 last year, they were 14th in Points Allowed - and I feel pretty strongly that is the only stat that matters.


As for the CBs, I suspect you are correct and they will be a liability. We'll know more once the hitting starts.

Agree to disagree on this one.

The offense and special teams greatly influence the points against stat and both of those units were historically bad in 2025. It gave opposing offenses great field position. They were second worst in the nfl in turnover giving up 18 INT and 7 fumbles lost. All of this leads to a worse points given up stat line.

Less turnovers and less 3 and outs(10th worst in the nfl) lead to worse starting field position and better total points scored against for elite defenses.

In the end the numbers are the numbers. One can always seek out mitigating factors but in the end, it is what it is.

Being on the field as much as our D was is going to wear them down. You add a lot of bad field position because of turnovers and the fact we couldn’t move the ball and that’s a recipe for trouble. Our D may take a step back this year because of the Myles trade and JS resigning but if our O can move the ball and our ST play better it may very well make up for the D regressing a bit. And who knows our new DC may be good.

In addition It’s hard to believe that with Todd Monken our offense won’t be anything but better and that goes for our ST’s also. We should see marked improvement with both units.

I agree we should, but there is a long way between should and will. Time will tell. I am hopeful.

And you know, I felt the same way in regards to TOP. It "seemed like" the opponents had the ball much longer than the Browns did. But in reality that just isn't so.

All of the turnovers certainly created a situation where your opponents would score more points but the TOP was much closer than it seemed. At least to me.

The Browns TOP was 29:22 per game. Which means their opponents averaged having the ball 38 seconds more than the Browns.

An actually good defense takes the ball back, forces the 3 & outs themselves or limits those 7's to 3's.

With this offense that's certainly what would have had to be depended on to happen for them to win games. Normally teams don't have to depend on that week in and week out just to eek out some wins. But when you rank 27th in total points scored and #1 in turnovers you do.

Yeah... but everything else being equal, the defense that starts a drive in the shadow of their own goalpost is going to come away with the worse points-allowed stats.

Definitely, but I wasn't commenting in regard to winning, just scoring (or preventing of scoring).
While things do affect each other, and yeah, the defense got handed a lot of short fields.... it is up to the defense to, ya know, defend. There's no reason our defense can't just turn around and get a 3 & Out. Just because they're at our 20 yard line doesn't mean the D can't do its job.

Then, there is the counter argument to the points being elevated due to all the short fields: the yardage stat was lower than it should have been because of the all the short fields.

This was not a Top 10 defense last year. It was good-ish, but it was really more "above average" than actually "good".

I don't really disagree with you but at the same time no defense stops its opponent from scoring in short field situations on a regular basis. Even in your scenario they would be scoring field goals.

But to your point the Browns did give up a lot of TD's last season.

I mean I get that in a perfect world you would be totally correct. But in the real world NFL defenses get 3 and outs about 25% of the time and defenses hold offenses to either a punt or a turnover on about 55% to 60% of all drives. If your scenario played out as you describe, nobody would ever score a TD in an NFL game.

I think last year's defense will be a more dominant unit than this year's defense. You cannot lose the best defensive player in the game and not take a step back. What would have last year's defense looked like if the offense held the ball longer and reduced their time on the field? If the offense would have scored more points and put the defense in better more predictable situations? If the special teams would not have been so terrible and pinned teams back more often? I think last year's defense would have easily been a top 2 to 3 defenses overall in the NFL anchored by the best defensive player in the game.

I think this year's defense will still be decent with young core talent to build around. Graham, Verse, Schwesinger, Mcneil Warran with some vets like Ward, Delpit, Williams, Davis, and Collins. There is still a lot to like about the Browns defense. If the offense and special teams can make a jump the defense being in better game situations and reduced time on the field could still be elite. If the offense struggles and looks like last year without Garrett, the defense will not be as dominant as last year. The attention he got from the offenses even when the defense was tired and in bad situations really helped the unit make plays. The only real disappointing thing with the defense lasts few years in general was lack of generating turnovers. If this unit can somehow improve that stat, then the loss of a great player like Garrett might not be felt as much.

It is really hard to find a good source for defensive 3 and outs, but I did manage to find this one through week 13 of 2025:
[img]https://preview.redd.it/offensive-a...96b1070d67b4e34c7c35d61dd16d6218a2adc2df[/img]

Browns were by far the best at producing 3 and outs, they can only do so much when the other half of the team coming on the field after you is historically bad.

Another idea that I have to disagree with in theory. Will they take a step back? It's very possible/probable. We have a new coach, a new DC and roster turnover including the best defensive player in the league... However, we also have the defensive rookie of the year, whom I don't expect to peak in year one of his career. We replaced the best player in the league with a guy I think we can all agree is pretty damn good. But to say they take a step back BECAUSE of losing the best defensive player in the league is a little short sighted, imho.

The easy one that everyone differentiates is:
QB sacks
#1 Myles Garrett 23
#29 Jared Verse 7.5

But...Verse is catching up

QB pressures
#1 Myles Garrett 53
#10 Jared Verse 36

QB knockdowns
#4 Jared Verse 18
#13 Myles Garrett 14

QB hurries
#8 Myles Garrett 14
#26 Jared Verse 10

Let's not forget, in college Myles Garrett was a DE... Jared Verse was a DE. Post draft, Myles Garrett was a DE... Jared Verse was an OLB. Now the roles are reversing, Verse is going back to his natural position, while the Rams are asking the reigning DPOY to switch positions for the first time in his career.

There is a lot more here to talk about.

At the end of the day, the defense had MAJOR changes... Schwartz is gone being my biggest concern. The DC will have a huge say in where this defense goes.

As far as talent:

Losses; Garrett
Gains; Verse and McNeil Warren.. AND a full off season and experience for Graham and Schwesinger

To think the Browns Defense won't take a step back losing the best player in the game is being overly optimistic. I think the trade will be good for the Browns in the long-term Jared Verse is a very good player but to think the defense will perform at the same level without Garrett, I just do not see that. Defenses were triple teaming Garrett on almost every passing down. Throwing to half the field on many occasions to avoid his rush. I would love to see Verse get to that same level, but it is unfair to expect that.

Last year, Browns defense ranked 10th in forcing 3-and-outs, and allowed the 4th fewest yards (this is according to Google AI).
They were ranked 21st in generating turnovers, but were out-stunk by the offense (ranked 27th).

First off, I didn't say they won't, I said I am more worried about the loss of Schwartz with the personnel changes.

Based solely off personnel, I think with the right scheme and play calling, they can be just as effective based off of what I saw from the rookies last year and Jared Verse. I don't know that Myles Garrett alone is going to add TDs and FGs to the end game.

THE most important factor in my mind is our offense becoming competent. The defense will have different looks when a team has to get out of it's game plan because they are down. Something pretty much every offense didn't have to do in 2025 for the most part.

I won't worry about the loss of Schwartz until they give me reason to.

I was reminded about our CB depth recently. Either of Ward or Campbell going down could mean serious trouble against a competent passing offense.

I'll just ask if we are talking strictly of this coming season or over the long haul? Vers is 5 years younger than Myles. How much longer do you think it will be before the age difference shows up on the stat sheets?

And not an attempt to make Vers look like as great a player as Myles, at the same time in Myles rookie year he had 7 sacks. In his third season he had 10 sacks and in his fourth he had 12 sacks. And while i think everyone will agree they aren't the same player Vers had 7.5 sacks in his second season.

One thing that people also seem to be glossing over is that in LA Vers has been playing out of position. They have had him playing at OLB when he was drafted and his natural position was DE which he will be playing now.

I'm certainly not trying to make the argument that there wasn't some degree of a downgrade at the position when Myles was traded. I'm just not so sure that downgrade will be as significant as some people are expecting it to be. Then there are the draft picks included in the trade.

Myles allowed Berry to have lesser talent at other positions. I don't mean inferior talent, simply a more defined attribute. By this, I mean Berry can hire a corner who plays very well against short to intermediate passes. Why? Because QBs won't have a high percentage of deep throws. He can also add quick linebackers, because the attention is focused on Myles. This defense was built around Garrett and Ward.

I have no doubt Verse is/will become a great defensive lineman. My concern is the talent gap between Verse and Garrett. You can post all the individual stats you want comparing the two, but it's misleading because Garrett received a higher percentage of attention than Verse.

The big question this season will be the level of talent on the defense now that Garrett is no longer there. I feel this defense was not built to the level of this new defensive line.

I am also not convinced the offense is capable of picking up the slack. What you have is a decline in defense with a mild increase in offense. Will it be enough to improve overall from last year?

These go hand in hand…

I would never at this point in their careers compare Verse and Garrett as equals. I don’t think I have painted that picture to this point.

In baseball you are talking about replacing an every day starter with a minor league player. Jared Verse is not a minor league player, he is a year 3 starter in the NFL who has proven to be, at worst, a top 15 pass rusher playing out of position from his college career. That alone closes some of the gap in replacing Myles with say a second round rookie, whom I would equate to a minor league baseball player.

To Pit’s point, Jared is 5 years younger. Maybe it doesn’t happen this year, but the age factor is going to close the gap even further. The fact that both players are switching roles, Verse going back to his natural position and Myles changing to a position he has never played before could easily narrow that gap even more. Maybe Garrett thrives at OLB and goes for 30 sacks and 70 pressures. We’ll see what happens, but it isn’t cut and dry that they are automatically going to lose 2-4 games based on WAR.

I agree with what you're saying, I just don't think corner is the best example. I think you could point to the rest of the offensive line and linebackers, overall. We have largely mid-to-low FAs that have enjoyed a LOT of success despite the ragtag nature in which they were acquired. Yes, we have Graham... but otherwise the defensive front is made up of a third rounder, a fourth rounder, and then low draft picks and FAs. Same with the linebackers. I think the impact of going to Garrett to Verse will be felt in their stats/performance, if anywhere.

I know, I was agreeing with you. I don't think Pit was disagreeing either... just more talking points.

Myles teammates over the years, since 2020:
current Browns still on the team;
Graham top ten pick
Schwesinger 2nd round pick
Ward top 5 pick
Delpit 2nd round pick
Campbell 2nd round pick
Hall Jr 2nd round pick
Maliek Collins was a great established NFL starter when Cleveland acquired him, even if he was a 3rd round pick
Owusu-Koramoah 2nd round pick

Past Browns teammates;
Bush Top ten pick
Tomlinson 2nd round pick
Newsome 1st round pick
Thornhill 2nd round pick
Clowney 1st overall pick
Williams 2nd round pick
Richardson 1st round pick
Joseph 1st round pick

I'm not sure where anyone would argue Myles has had lower level teammates. The current defensive front is now Verse (1st round pick) Graham (1st round pick) Collins a seasoned veteran 3rd round pick FA and Home grown Alex Wright 3rd round pick. Backups across the entire NFL are made of 4th round and later names. There is no way Berry can put 2nd round and up players at every position on the team, that's why there are 7 rounds in the draft.

LBers you have Carson who is a second round pick and Williams who is a 3rd round pick, but already has an All Pro under his belt in 2023 which is why they signed him. The other spot is going to be manned by McNeil-Warren, another second round pick. So while the CB position has first rounders, for LBers 2nd round is the upper echelon of LBers, similar to RBs.

I think the talent level on this defense is being undersold.

I think Browns posters want to exaggerate the impact of his loss. We managed to lose many games while he was here. I objectively feel that was anemic offense as called and crappy roster. Point is, .02, that we made some marginal teams much better seeming losses to them. Some posters may want to give them more credit as opponents than they deserve or earned. I think with aggressive brand of ball played reasonably well, we may be better than we are given credit for. Too many "analysts" and experts only expound past season's games and treat it like a crystal ball of doom. Even as we lost, we did manage to play opponents tough. Not blind optimism here, but I suggest we get a fair shake for a change instead.

I certainly agree on your comments in this thread and you have stated them better than I could have.