DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum this got to me

It is really sad and he's probably not the only player that felt that way.

His dedication and sense of honor is becoming more and more rare these days. The world could use a lot more people like Joe Thomas and a lot less people like Deshaun Watson.

Football was a lot more to Joe Thomas than just a paycheck. Thanks for posting this bone.

On one hand, I sympathize with Joe. On the other, it reminds me what a messed up outlook modern society has towards winning. Some things can't be won no matter what an individual does. Yet, "winning" is how too many things are measured. We put too much emphasis on an end result that is out of anyone's control instead of focusing on how people act while trying to get there. Some groups start with more resources and are more likely to be able to win. The illusion of parity, and the, perhaps, not quite wholesale lie that anyone can win if they are just willing to sacrifice everything, is a terrible burden people allow themselves to carry. Sometimes there simply is no winning because factors outside your control are stacked against you. Just the underlying assumptions we have about what winning is at times seem problematic.

Living the best you can is the only "winning" you have any control over. Unfortunately, I think how we define that best can be flawed, and what we consider winning certainly can have its own issues.

Joe's a winner in my book.

Sports in and of itself is predicated on winners and losers. That's the subject matter.

It's not a topic about life in general or some philosophical discussion. Focus.

How many participation trophies have you handed out in your lifetime?

Pro sports are ALL about winning. There is no other perceived value to the franchise, coaches, players or fans. That is all that matters.

Of course Joe is a winner, the person, which he got his personal super bowl trophy in the form of induction into the HOF. That is the individual form of winning... along with the other accolades he accumulated like All-Pro etc...

I think the premise of parity in sports is a fantasy. Expecting the Browns, or any team, to win is setting one's self up for disappointment. Could it happen? Sure. But the QBs that end up in the draft are beyond the Browns control, as are many other things.

While yes there are winners and losers in sports as we have set them up, putting the focus on that rather than the competition itself is in some ways troublesome to me. Pretending all the teams have the same chance of winning isn't really true.

Yes, we as a society have frequently looked at it as winning is all that matters in Sports as Irish and others say. Yet, I think looking at it that way isn't the only way it could be looked at.

I get that all you worry about is winning (i.e, an argument without considering the ramifications of what you have to do to try to twist things around to make it so.) I find the trying to win anything at any cost approach BS.

I think doing things the right way should be admired more than the winning. Winning is in some ways incidental.

Yes, my argument could have been applied elsewhere, but I hadn't gone there.

I'm not a big trophy guy. Received plenty, but they just end up in a box in storage. My argument is not about rewarding participation. Its about respecting honorable competition regardless of the result.

"We" have chosen to make it "all" about winning. It seems that, as a species, we've been conditioned to look at basically "all" things that way.

If there was no other value, there would be no Browns fans. Thus, it appears that there is some other value. Not all those values are necessarily good, either. To some, Pro sports is about making money. Haslam is doing that just fine. It could be about respecting the competition. It could be about enjoying the entertainment.

Professional sports is all about winning. I'm not a professional athlete. This isn't about me so you can stop with your obvious personal crap. This isn't the political forum. That petty BS has no place here. Nobody said anything about "winning at all costs" until you interjected it.


Once again, nobody said anything about winning by not doing things the right way.


But you have certainly implied it. Professional athletes make up less than 0.01% of the total U.S. population. Somehow you have now made a feeble attempt to open that up to the other 99.99% of the population and drag some personal agenda from the political forum into it.

Sad, just sad.

Bonefish expanded the subject to all of life before I did. Joe expanded to all of life in the article. You're the one that insists on making things personal with me (and anyone else who has the audacity to express an opinion that disagrees with what you believe), then you act surprised when people react to it. Poking the bear then playing victim is your schtick. It has been old to me for about a decade.

No one may have literally said winning by not doing things the right way, but they "certainly implied it" when they claimed things like "[winning] is all that matters" and there is "no other perceived value."

Professional athletes are also humans with lives. Attitudes prevalent throughout society can apply to sports. Just because they are .01% of the population doesn't mean that things that apply to all humanity don't apply to them as well. Players on 31 of the 32 teams literally can't win the Super Bowl every year. Winning it all is a goal that ~96.8% of NFL players can't possibly achieve every year. Looking at it as the only thing that matters is setting one's self up for failure. Winning is beyond any individual's control. Everyone wants to win, but trying to convince yourself every year that you are going to win the Super Bowl is a recipe for a nervous breakdown.

Your inability to allow others to have opinions you disagree with without acting out is sad. If You don't like philosophical discussion, you should ignore my posts. The PitDAWG, board police, everyone has to focus on what you think they should focus on act is annoying as hell.

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