DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Season Record Prediction Thread

2-15 historically will get us the number one overall draft pick. Please just give me Oct 1st and Dec 13 W's, I already have tickets to those games.


Andrew Berry brought you, just over the past two offseasons:
Todd Monken, who was a two time National Champion with Georgia before coming back to the NFL and has been to the playoffs 2 of his last 3 seasons, winning TWO AFC NORTH championships during that time and went to the AFC Championship game with the Ravens.

Travis Switzer, with the Ravens his first 7 years in the league before coming to the Browns, went to the playoffs 6 of those 9 seasons, winning the AFC North Division 4 times and going to the AFC Championship game in 2023.

Byron Storer, went to the playoffs 3 of his 5 seasons prior to joining the Browns

Jared Verse, went to the playoffs and NFC Championship game in his first two years in the league.

Drafted Mason Graham in 2025 who won a national championship in college
Drafted Quinshon Judkins in 2025 who won a national championship in college
Drafted Michael Hall Jr in 2024 who won a national championship in college
Drafted Zach Zinter in 2024 who won a national championship in college
Drafted others who played in the College Football Playoff Series

He can bring in people that win, but once he gets them here, he has very little influence over the actual winning part.



When it comes to the blame game, my personal opinion is that Andrew Berry is at the bottom of the list.

If you weren't with us for 0-16, don't come around when we go 0-17.

Darnold was on his 5th team in 8 seasons before he won a SB. Nobody saw it coming and four teams gave up on him. I don't think even a crystal ball could have predicted that one.

Can you name a single NFL team that would have put up with all of those terrible seasons he had before he suddenly blossomed into a SB winner?

Maybe you should pay more attention. I didn't say plenty of QB's that have been drafted since Mayfield was drafted won SB's. I said plenty of QB's have won the SB since Mayfield was drafted and that "SOME OF them were drafted since Mayfield was drafted. Five different QB's have won SB's since Mayfield was drafted. And yes, two is SOME of them.

Darnold lost with losing franchises, he won with winning franchises.. for reference on the info below Darnold was 17-32 during the time Baker was with the Browns a 34.7% win rate.
the Ravens were wining division titles long before Lamar Jackson came along
The Bills were 33-31 the prior 4 seasons to Josh Allen being drafted and coming off a playoff season

The Browns were 11-53 during those exact same 4 seasons coming off a 1-31 run leading up to Baker Mayfield being drafted. Baker took the Browns to the playoffs for the first time since 2002 and won the first playoff game since 1994. He was given 4 years to turn the franchise around and returned them to respectability. He took a 0-16 team and won 7 games his first season. He was 29-30 as the Browns starter, the most prolific QB since Bernie Kosar... let that sink in.

4 winningest QBs in Browns history:
Otto Graham 81%
Brian Sipe 59%
Bernie Kosar 51%
Baker Mayfield 49.2%

Is .500 a milestone? Of course not, but in the annals of BROWNS history, he stands above most others that donned the uniform.


I wouldn't judge that draft by it's cover, these QBs have endured/enjoyed very different situations during their careers. We don't know what they would look like in each other's shoes.


What we do know is that draft produced 4 winning QBs... I think the 2027 draft will produce at least that many.

By definition, every organization has a limited number of leaders, while the rest are followers. Simply being part of a successful team does not automatically make someone a leader.

Leadership, toughness, mental strength, and that refuse-to-die mentality are specific character traits. You usually discover them only by working closely with someone or watching how they respond when subjected to extraordinary pressure. That’s why statistics—and how a player performs when everything is going well—often tell only half the story.

Deshaun Watson is a perfect example of someone who possesses certain leadership qualities while also being burdened by some deeply flawed character traits.

Every player you mentioned has been part of a successful organization. But that does not guarantee that any of them were among the driving forces behind that success—or that they possess the specific qualities the Browns so desperately need.

The good news is that some players can grow into those roles through age, experience, and increased responsibility. The bad news is that the opposite can happen too.

Call it Lex Watson: whatever can deteriorate in Cleveland eventually will.

On my list Berry is on the podium.

I agree Floquinho, it is nearly impossible to know who has leadership qualities and who doesn't. The only thing they can go on is interviews in most cases, both with the coaches and when doing background. Being a part of multiple successful teams though, would be a more positive view from the outside looking in, than say someone who calls out their team publicly, calls out ownership publicly and refuses to play publicly until his contract status changes... That is Watson's background. I wouldn't use him as any type of example of possessing any leadership qualities. I have seen him blame outside sources for failure.

There are no guarantees that a player even remains a leader when taking them from one environment of winning and planting them in the middle of a losing environment.

Leadership is typically a trait that is instilled in someone and follows them from program to program. It isn't usually difficult to find the quality discussed by coaches and peers. By all accounts, all the players that I listed have had great reports of being a part of the success, not just someone hanging around and enjoying the success. I don't know a lot about the coaches, admittedly, but the players were pretty easy to find positive praise on.

I apologize, I don't understand the Lex Watson reference. I also don't understand if you are saying Berry is on the podium as a leader or if you don't think he has shown any qualities to this point to justify having faith in him. I'm a little confused there.


The naked eye test shows that Monken was not able to get a team ready for their week 1 contest. That to me shows a lack of leadership. Can he redeem himself? Obviously, but all I can go on is what I see in the games played and as of right now, the first shovel has been thrust into the ground.

I agree with everything you posted with one exception. That's about talking to a college players coach. I've never heard of a college coach who does not support and heavily pimp his players going into the draft. I'm sure there are probably some cases to the contrary but it would certainly be very rare.

There are different reasons for that but mainly it involves recruiting. Players who have NFL aspirations want to know their coaches will promote them. They want to know that doesn't end as they go into the NFL draft. Players want to know if you give your all to your coach he will give his all back to you. There is also the angle that having your players drafted higher in the draft is a feather in your cap and lends itself to recruiting better players if you can show them just how successful your players are in being drafted into the NFL. I feel talking to a players college coach may be the least valuable tool in scouting a college player due to those factors.

Thank you for a constructive response. We are finally beginning to discuss what is probably the single most important quality needed to make the Browns consistently competitive over the long term.

You raise several important points, and we share the same perspective on many of them.

The difficulty with assuming a position of natural leadership in Cleveland is that the lack of a healthy organizational culture is so overwhelming that it would require an extraordinary personality—someone with the courage, energy, and determination to break through years of dysfunctional management.

Because the owners have such a strong and often negative influence on how the organization is run, that person would also need a commanding personality capable of winning over both the media and the fan base from day one.

Andrew Berry does not have the experience, personal qualities, or charisma required to become the natural leader who can rebuild this culture from the ground up. After six seasons, the organization remains dysfunctional, and the results show no meaningful improvement from where the Browns were when he took over.

That does not necessarily mean Berry is bad at every aspect of his job. It simply means that he does not possess what is required to transform the Cleveland Browns into something fundamentally different from what we have witnessed during the past six seasons.

From my perspective, his decision-making too often lacks both common sense and a professional understanding of consequences.
His list of head scratchers are starting to fill a whole A4 page now.

I would add (given the context of the convo), that it doesn't have to be this way. Previous owner was very hands off (still got similar results, though).

We’re talking about leadership and building a winning culture.

It starts with Haslam—that’s spot on. And the person within the organization who ultimately gives the orders and hires the coaches and players is the GM. That’s spot on, too.

But the person who sets the tone is the top dog in the building. Haslam may be the Holy Ghost hovering somewhere above Berea, but the flesh-and-blood person issuing the orders is Andrew freaking Berry.

Who establishes the standards inside Berea?

Who makes sure the players and coaches live up to those standards?

Who holds people in the building accountable?

Remember Shedeur Sanders’ speeding incidents and how the GM handled them, then compare that with the response when Watson got his speeding ticket. That’s called a double standard—and double standards set the tone just as clearly as any inspirational slogan hanging on a wall.

I’m not disputing your overall view, because you’re right. I’m simply adding a few more elements to what it means to be the so-called leader of an organization.

Here’s the thing:

Winners attract winners. Discipline grows out of discipline. Standards are defined far more by what you do than by what you say.

Mental toughness and a never-say-die attitude are states of mind. People who possess those qualities recognize them when they see them. Those who don’t often have no idea what they should even be looking for—which might explain quite a lot about the Browns’ talent-evaluation process.

Bakers first game as a Brown

I’m adding this because it captures attitude, courage, and leadership.

Forget for a moment that the quarterback is Baker Mayfield, along with all his flaws, and focus instead on his energy, attitude, and positive mindset.

That’s the team I fell in love with: Jarvis walking around with that unmistakable swagger, Baker carrying himself like a veteran despite it being his first game, Higgins with that huge smile, and Chubb displaying his quiet toughness.

The culture was already alive within that team and embodied by those players. When they left, part of that winning culture left with them.