DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Looking Back: Browns 23 Buccaneers 19 Post Game Thoughts

No problem. I couldn't remember the knee injury, I guess it was in the Jax game 1st quarter returning a kickoff. Can't find video. I even re-cued the game but the crew cut away directly after the tackle and there were too many bodies on the screen to see anything. They made no mention at the time.

Apparently, he was seen on crutches after the game.

Anyway, he's eligible to return on 10/18 for the Ravens, but that will depend on the severity of the injury. It took some digging to find the unofficial "significant knee sprain".

Over the past 10 years, 2024 is the only year that 6 wins didn't get you in the top ten. Most years, that is somewhere between 6-8 on average.

Some of the thinking here probably needs to adjust as well.. It isn't JUST teams in need of a QB that are going to be so bad that they are picking ahead of us. There are many teams with young QBs or situations where the starter gets injured that will have really bad years, but won't be looking for a QB.

If all goes well and there really are 6 viable QBs in the draft (which I still think could be possible. Throw out historical, that's why history changes). We could end up in the 6-7 spot in the draft and a couple of teams in the top 3 that don't need a QB. Now, they could stay at say the #2 spot and draft someone like Jeremiah Smith... OR they could trade down to #6 and get another first rounder and future first or second, and possibly still get Smith. I'm confident this class will have two guys in this draft that I will want to be a really good QB prospect.

Too much to determine between now and next April at this point.. but I would much rather feel like I did this past Sunday than a week earlier.. whether that is 6 times or 12 times... it's still better than 3 times. I can't worry about what will happen in the draft right now. Heck we could tank, still get the #4 overall pick and only 1 QB declare for the draft because of NIL money and any number of other reasons.

I feel pretty good about the college prospects though and frankly being in the top ten, I feel good about having the draft capital to move up high enough to snag one of my top of list guys.

Meant to post this earlier. Great show. At the very least, watch the first 4 minutes. You won't be sorry.

Thanks for posting. That was great and I think Q was spot on with a lot of different perspectives.

Started watching a couple of other of his takes - including the one below. It's interesting to see the plays getting broken down and the WRs being open... at about the 17 minute mark he makes a comment how they did this last year and were complaining how no-one was open, so encouraging from both the talent and scheme angle.

Of course much easier to be positive after a nice win -- let's see if we can maintain the competitiveness.



Also nice video called "Todd's message lands with NFL Locker Rooms" - another good 17 minutes.

Throw out history if you like. There's a saying about people who do that.

Good stuff. Thanks!

Deshaun wasn't perfect. Some of the "meat on the bones" plays are based on playing a perfect game; but hey, that's what all QBs should strive for. I was just happy to see him playing in rhythm and with confidence.

Three big takeaways for me; the first two are his indirect quotes, the last one's mine:

1. It's much easier for a QB to play his game with confidence if his receivers give him a margin for error.

2. You simply can't ignore any of the options if you're playing the Browns.

3. That is not my pointer on the screen, therefor my mouse is not broke.

Yeah? What's the saying?

Just because history says there isn't many years of 5-6 QBs worthy of a first round pick, doesn't mean it won't happen. That's ridiculous, you act like it's never happened and never will. There is a long list of prospects that are currently being evaluated for that. How many years in the past has there been a list of 6 or more being touted at the beginning of a college season? I don't ever recall one.. but, we have one this year.

This is list of prospects that could potentially earn a first round grade:
Dante Moore
Arch Manning
Trinidad Chabliss
Julian Sayin
CJ Carr
LaNorris Sellers
Drew Mestamaker
Darian Mensah
Jayden Maiava

The season is young... More could be added (I'm probably missing some) and obviously some of these could drop. But that is one heck of a list. We haven't seen anything like it, maybe ever.

I love that whole "could potentially" part.



About 45% to 50% of NFL first-round draft picks become long-term or full-time starters for the team that drafted them. First you claimed there were six possible first round picks and now you've stretched that into nine which is totally preposterous. Six would tie the NFL record of first round QB picks. Even if there are six that means roughly three of them would actually address the issue the Browns have at QB.

I know facts are inconvenient when hope springs eternal but it is what it is.

Julian Sayin is going to get labeled a one trick pony I'm afraid .. IF #4 goes down he is big trouble .. Day and their OC Aurther Smith put him in this position.. They should have busted their buts ( and his ) to get him comfortable a #2 and lord forbid a 3 .. Last season he had Tate .. All the eggs in one basket will make him look like one read QB..

It is a new world now with NIL, transfer portal, and additional 5th year of illegibility. Without NIL and the 5th year Donte Moore and Trinadad Chambliss would have been in the 2025 draft. Some of these QB's will be able to enter the 2026 draft but could easily get paid and stay in college. Manning, Moore, Carr, Sayin, Sellers, Mestamaker, Mensah, and Maiava I believe could all come back to college due to the new rules which would put a huge wrinkle in many teams' plans. It is a new world in college football so you never know.

To my untrained eye, that is one of the most impressive group of qb's coming out that I've seen in a looooooong time.

Which one are you in that movie? You can’t comprehend posts, but sure can bend a few words to try to make it into something it never was.

One person says potentially 5-6 QBs, you say it can’t happen because that just doesn’t happen, even though it has happened twice, as recently as 2024. I defend that because this is the most prolific group of QBs to be available for the pool, maybe ever, so I show 9 potential players to fill out that 5-6 spots and you twist it to say I am claiming 9 are going to be first round picks. I didn’t even claim 9 will commit to the draft. That’s where the could potentially part comes in. Have you caught up yet?

Regardless of where these guys are drafted, I agree with you, most will not become a franchise QB. But being the first one off the board doesn’t mean THATS THE ONE that will either. Or are YOU claiming that roughy 3, AND ONLY THE FIRST THREE CHOSEN, can become a really good player in this league?

In that 1983 draft, the 3 best QBs were Elway picked first overall, first QB. Jim Kelly picked 14th overall, 3rd QB and Dan Marino picked 27th overall snd the 6th QB.

Only one of these 3 guys won a Super Bowl even though all of them celebrate a hall of fame career.

Those are facts and relevant to the conversation.

We'll see how that goes. Austin Barber was a very good tackle at Florida. While he is looking great at guard, a swap of positions might be something to examine. If someone can step in at guard and do a good job and Barber at tackle improves that position, it might be the smart move.

With all the new guys along the O line, I don't know that things are set in stone at this point.

It's possible, and would be unprecedented, that for the first time ever in the draft as many as 7-8 QB's could have first round grades and be drafted in that round. A few scenarios have to fall into place for that to happen such as how well they play this season, are they all going to declare for the draft and whatever else teams look for. Just because it never happened before doesn't mean it won't. We'll know more in 4-5 months.

Meh, I think he is going to take a bigger hit because of his size than Smith.

What it shows me is, when you have an opportunity to play with a generational talent, you are able to utilize that talent to it's fullest potential, no matter the opponent. The fact that Smith had 8 catches for 164 yards against Texas proves that...Most "Phenoms" would have that stat line against Kent State, but not top 10 opponents... He only played a small portion of that game and KSU, so he only had 5 catches for 85 yards there. They were able to dominate an inferior opponent and protect their best weapons in the process.

As you already stated, he has shown the ability to showcase other WRs in this offense in Tate last season. If, God forbid, Smith went down for any period of time, Innis is the next man up and I would expect his workload to increase accordingly. At no point has he failed because Smith wasn't around, so that hypothetical probably would not become part of the equation.

The Buckeyes get more notoriety and an easier walk in living rooms when they get accolades like Heisman Trophy winners. That is what they are doing, they are building Jeremiah Smith's résumé for the most prestigious individual award in college football. They are doing their jobs. If Sayin failed to help him in that quest, THEN he would be earmarked with a negative check mark. In the past decade only two winners weren't QBs, it would be a huge accomplishment.

I made it quite clear you said "could potentially" and even quoted it in the first line of my reply. It appears you didn't even keep up with the first line of my reply.

You can twist this any way you wish. I stated that the very idea of having 9 first round draft picks at QB was preposterous. Which it most certainly is.

None of what you posted changes the fact that the odds are three out of six QB's of drafted might be drafted would become franchise QB's. Which only shows just how much of a crap shoot it is.

The question becomes do you want an opportunity to draft the top one or two QB's you have targeted on your board or do you wish to take a crap shoot with what's left over or with having one of those two drop into your lap?

You have certainly demonstrated that when a team plays craps they can still win. I tend to leave the game of "I'll pick between what ever is left" to other teams if given a choice.

You see, you went back to a draft before modern technology played a role in drafting. Before analytic departments. Before major sports science. And that's all fine and well if you think we're still living in 1983.

BTW- I'm not in the movie. I'm showing what gullible people look like when they buy into unrealistic expectations built on nothing but hopes and dreams.

I too feel this way. These college QB's are making a lot of money playing while they're still in school. Most of the top players already have either sports and or NIL agents that represent them. This isn't the same as it was 20 or even 10 years ago. The landscape has changed.

Athletes drafted in the top 5 of the NFL draft sign pre-slotted, four-year rookie contracts totaling roughly $47 million to $57 million. As an example an athlete drafted at No. 25 overall in the first round of the NFL draft receives a four-year rookie contract worth an estimated $18.8 million to $19.5 million. Mensah is making 6 mil. to play in college. Moore 5 mil. Chambliss is making 5 mil. These are just examples as a reference.

They will be getting the best advice in the business on their draft projections. Some of them who get the advice it is more beneficial to stay in school for another year will listen because they will still make very good money staying in school. After all it's a supply and demand business just like most are. Jumping into a crowded field may not be the best choice for some of these QB's which may certainly help to thin the herd.

Yes, I know... you stated it condescendingly. Then went on to try to dispel the entire post. It's classic PitDAWG.

At no point has anyone suggested there would be 9 first round QBs. You are the only one insinuating that. There is a list of 9 names that are currently playing college ball that are being talked about as potential first round draft picks. That's fact. A) It is most likely that at least 2-4 of those guys stay in school. B) It doesn't mean all 9, even if they all declare, with ultimately become first round picks. But TODAY, they are all being touted as possibilities.

I also agree that not all QBs drafted will become long term starters for their drafting team. However, where do your numbers come from? Historically, 58-63% of first round QBs become long term starters, meaning they remain starters for more than 4 seasons. That drops to 10% for those drafted in rounds 2 on. That doesn't mean you over draft a 3rd round grade just to get them in the first round, but we both know in lower number QB drafts, it happens.

I used 1983 as an example because 2024 is the only other 6 QB first round draft. It's a little early to start anointing HOF players from a draft with only 2 years of experience, No?? Do you really think that using 2024 would have given a better realization for historical fact? I'm curious, what metrics used post 1983 are relevant to the conversation? It's just classic redirect because you don't have a valid argument.

When I asked, I was merely looking at the title of the movie...To think it is possible given the circumstances surrounding this years college football crop isn't gullible, it's playing off of factual information. We have never seen a college year with this kind of highly touted signal callers, ever... We don't know what the draft landscape is, including you. It's naive to think that it could never happen based on the fact that it hasn't yet though.





I don't disagree with THIS. NIL is changing the landscape of college sports for certain. It makes uncertain players think twice about entering the draft, when they are borderline first/second round grades and they can get paid to stay and improve their draft value. However, every year we see injuries cause more players to stay out of need because of those injuries. I honestly don't know, but I would be interested in seeing players that are told they are a sure thing first round pick by the evaluating company, what is the percentage that stay because they can get a NIL deal, vs getting that first year of pro contract out of the way to get close to the lucrative second contract where they actually start making life changing money. That would be a legit discussion to have if anyone could find the info.

There are exactly TEN players that have NIL deals of $5M or more in college sports in 2026. That's a third of the first round draft picks... They aren't just examples to reference, they are the top .03% of the college pool (not 3%, .03%)....Oh I almost forgot to mention, of those 10 players, only 4 are college football players, the other 6 are basketball players.... Want to talk about skewed numbers to attempt an argument.

Which is more important, taking a ONE million dollar NIL deal, which is much more common than your $5M examples, and making your second contract a year further down the road, or take your slotted rookie contract and get to that second contract at a younger age, making it more likely to get a second big contract in the NFL?

The part where we really agree is the last sentence where you say they will be getting the beneficial advice. I agree 100% that a QB that is told that he is projected to be the 5th-7th QB taken and is borderline late first to mid second round will really think about staying in school, imho, this year to wait and give themselves the opportunity to improve their draft stock with less competition in the 2028 draft.

However... this changes IF, and admittedly that is a huge IF, those same evaluators say they are more than likely the 5-7th QBs off the board, but expectancy is that 4-5 QBs will be top ten picks and the other 2-3 will be top 20 picks. If I am a guy that believes in my potential, I would rather be that 5th QB taken in the late teens on down because I am being drafted into a much better situation than the #1- #3 overall picks. That second contract becomes more of a reality given the level of franchise I stand to go to.

These are the teams almost suredly going to take a QB first round if enough are evaluated as first round talent.
Jets suck AND they have a terrible QB depth chart
Browns suck AND they have a terrible QB depth chart (we will see more soon..if Watson plays well and the Browns play well, this could be a landing spot that is appealing to an incoming rookie)
Dolphins suck AND they have a terrible QB depth chart
Falcons suck AND they have a terrible QB depth chart
Cardinals suck AND they have a terrible QB depth chart
Steelers suck AND they have a terrible QB depth chart, but they have had a strong history of having a good overall run organization

These are the teams that will heavily consider taking a first round QB if the right one falls to them, and the current situation continues throughout the rest of the season (seasons young).
Vikings don't suck, but their QB depth chart does. Whoever is drafted has a good chance of being the QB of a good team as soon as they give up on Kyler Murray
Buccaneers are interesting. They have been a playoff team 3 of the past 4 years, however, they just gave Baker a 3 year contract and look like one of the worst teams in the league. Playing a full season behind Baker would be beneficial to a rook.

There are other teams with good to really good QBs with injury concerns that could also consider the right guy.

Here's the thing. I would have put Ty Simpson about 9 down the chart on the list of current college QBs... he was over drafted at #13. Even the Rams could consider a QB if the season is more like game 1 than game 2 the rest of the way.

If Simpson is a #13 overall pick, then just about all the guys on my earlier list are first round picks if they declare.

As I pointed out dropping from a top 5 pick to pick 25 is a 28 mil. difference in a four year contract and some college QB's are making more per season than a #25 draft pick does.

As for your 2024 example and your mention of history. You can't discuss history before it's been written.

Try and read this slowly......


I didn't say anywhere you were claiming there would be nine first round QB's ranked as first round picks in the upcoming draft.

That reply was based on this...............


Maybe you just didn't care for the way I worded it. But you most certainly insinuated that there were nine draft eligible QB's that "could potentially earn" a first round grade doesn't in any way make it a fact they will. Just finding talking heads that claim this in no way makes it a fact. Creating a buzz is their job which often times means creating a scenario of which making their ridiculous claims become facts in the eyes of some is the goal and your post shows just how accurate that has become.

"Bantered about" in and of itself provides direct evidence that no such insinuations are anywhere close to a fact.

And you may want to look at the difference between..................


and.......


Here is a little clarity on some of the differences.......

In common football context, a quarterback who starts the majority of a team's games (e.g., 9 or more in a 17-game season) is viewed retrospectively as the primary starter for that season.

Which means a back up QB who was never intended to be the starter can gain a season as being the starter if the starting QB is injured. Or in the case of a team whose QB gets injured early in the season and they go out and sign a FA who starts the majority of the teams games they are determined to be the starting QB for that season. Even they are nothing more than a band aid to fill in a gap until their starter can return.

Or we can use the case of Sam Darnold if you like.

He was the starter for the Jets for three seasons. And 1 season for the 49'ers before going on as the backup in San Fran and then on to the Vikings and Seahawks. That alone gave him 4 seasons as a starter as he failed and failed to deliver on all four seasons before ever lighting it up. He was nothing in his first four seasons as a starter.

You see, I thought the main topic was the Browns drafting the answer for a long term starting, high quality QB. Simply having four seasons as a starter over the course of your career doesn't address any of that.

How would drafting a Sam Darnold who stunk up the joint for several seasons before the light turned on and was on his fourth team until he did solve that situation?

How would QB's with four seasons as a staring QB, some of which were nothing more than being used as a band aid until a team could get a legitimate QB or a desperation move to fill in for your injured starting QB solve the issue we are discussing?

That's the difference between your qualifier and mine.

There are only FOUR college players making the same or close to the 25th rookie wage scale salary... that is 4 out of over 14,000 FBS Division 1 players. There aren't even enough to fill the SEC, let alone make an argument for staying in college because you are getting paid like a rookie.

So, a team that is not ready for a rookie QB (I.E. the Jets) proves that Sam Darnold doesn't fall into the starting QB category?? Is that really going to be your argument? The Browns are arguably ready for a starting QB, much better roster than the Jets that drafted Sam Darnold. Even if he falters season 1 and season 2 (See Peyton Manning), that doesn't mean he couldn't be the long term answer.

Many failures at QB are scapegoats for having a very poor roster. Not all of them of course, but historically, how many QBs can you name that could lead ANY team over the course of the career, regardless of the level of the roster around them?

It seems you are looking for the football messiah, not an answer to the QB problem.