DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Jeremiah Smith Bandwagon

You are trying to compare the odds of success of a bona fide first round pick at QB to late round flyer picks at the QB position as somehow being similar. That defies any form of logic. I'm not sure if you just can't hear yourself or if you are just being ridiculous on purpose. This is so crazy it's not even worthy of discussion.

I might give up a 3rd rounder plus our 1st rounder to trade up for the guy. More than that, forget it. The type of trades people are proposing are 1 player away trades, and even then I wouldn't do that for a non QB college player. Most trades like that are for a proven NFL vet. A Jeffery Simmons is a guy who can do that for a team, not a college prospect.

Simmons is a guy who can take a team from almost there, "there".

This question is for Razorthorn only..

Would you trade Denzel Boston, KC Conception and the higher of the two first round picks for Smith?

I think 2 first rounders were too much for Simmons. Maybe a 1st and 2nd but that's it. Although I know it's been done before, usually multiple 1st's are for a QB in a trade or to move uup in the draft. As far as a trade we know all about that don't we?

No. I would not trade Boston away period. Boston is one of my favorite type of WR types and I want him AND Smith so having smith without Boston is counter productive to me. I had Boston rated as the top WR in this past draft behind Tate that I wanted. I thought this past draft was an excellent draft for #2 WRs and slot WRs. To me these guys have already proven they are going to be stars in the NFL so I don't want to trade them. I would rather trade unproven draft picks to move up for Smith than trade away players who are already proven to be capable.

To be clear, in my mind you are offering 3 first round picks for move up for Smith since I view Boston as a first round pick we got lucky enough to draft later. BUT if you wanted to trade two firsts and a second round pick to move up and take Smith I would be all for it. I just don't want to give up Boston and KC.

You keep harping on drafting a QB so I asked you what QB you are going to draft that is so much better than Sanders or Watson. Teams drafting QBs in the first round based on need instead of BPA almost always end up failing because they lost a great talent for a subpar QB. A QB taken in the first round is not a guarantee to be a bonafide great QB. There are tons of first round QBs who have been complete failures but you are acting like taking one in the first round is a promise of a great QB. The Browns have taken 5 QBs in the first round since returning in 1999. How many of those 5 were worth the pick? Still think I am crazy or will you learn that drafting purely for need is a recipe for failure in the NFL?

All that matters is what the Bears thought. For the Browns, I agree. Trades like that are when you think you are 1 player away. We aren't. The Bears felt they were that 1 player away, so it made sense to them. We will find out soon enough if they made a good trade or screwed up like the Rams trading for Garrett.

Watson won't be here next year. Several QB's in this upcoming draft are valued higher than Sanders. He has shown to be nothing more than a turnover machine. I repeat............

You are trying to compare the odds of success of a bona fide first round pick at QB to late round flyer picks at the QB position as somehow being similar. That defies any form of logic. I'm not sure if you just can't hear yourself or if you are just being ridiculous on purpose. This is so crazy it's not even worthy of discussion.

Your premise presents itself much closer to a stand up comedy routine than a legitimate QB debate.

While the exact percentage fluctuates slightly week-to-week based on injuries and lineup changes, the overwhelming majority of NFL starters are premium draft assets. Historically, roughly 75% to 80% of the league's primary starting quarterbacks are former first-round picks, while second- and third-round picks make up most of the remainder.

And you response? "Yeah but what about that fifth and seventh rounder we have on the roster." I still don't think you hear yourself.

And one big reason the Bears feel they are possibly just a player away is because they already have their QB. You can never get to that point until you do.

So who is your bonafine you want to draft Pit? I don't see one. All I see are a bunch of mediocre garbage. I don't see any elite QBs that scream we have to have this guy. Honestly, I find it hard to watch college football these days because the level of play just seems putrid anymore. The portal is flat our ruining college football to where only rich college programs are going to be able to keep any talent and smaller teams will just get striped bare. They will stop developing players because they have to win now while they have them for a year. QBs take the most time and effort to build up and why would any team bother when the second they get good they will just bail to a team that can pay them?

So I get that you WANT one. IS there one to be had especially where we will be drafting at?

I might not say never, but no doubt it is a big part. If the team is good enough, I don't think you need an elite QB, but you do need a good QB.

As I explained, there are several that are far better options than anything we will be left with on the roster after watson leaves. Even you know that. Making the claim that trying to develop a 5th and a 7th round QB while dumping three first rounders on WR is some great option is off the chains crazy.

I'm with Pit on this one..

For one, there is no arguing who you want as a replacement in November before the season is even over. Too many things have to happen between now and the draft. 1) need to know the draft order 2) evaluate which teams will be in the market for a QB, to see where the possible trade spots are 3) Need to know the list of draft committed candidates.... THEN you can start evaluating draft grades on the prospects.

To Pit's point, you are talking about replacing a 5th round pick with a possible first round grade guy... What is your train of thought here? I agree, you don't give a 3rd round grade on a guy and reach for him in the first round, but regardless of where you are in the process and wanting Smith so badly that you don't give a proper grade on the QBs. There are still several QBs that have the attributes to be a first round grade, including Arch Manning. He might not have had the season so far that everyone hoped he would, but he is still playing at a first round grade level. Others are rated higher yet, so I don't think there is going to a huge shortage of prospects come draft day.

Right now, I am still on CJ Carr as my top. I also still have Dante Moore right up there based on his skill set. Oregon has gone through some changes and I do think that is part of his decline.

I can't stop thinking about Mensah. He was on the one's to watch list and he is performing above anyone's expectations. If it stays status quo through the second half of the season, he is most likely your #1 QB prospect and probably the #1 overall draft pick of 2027. Mensah has been a high level QB, just at lower level schools until he transferred to Miami. Now it's on the biggest stage and he is lights out.

As of today, I still have all of these QBs with a first round grade, I would challenge you to change my mind (For the record, I had a 3rd round grade on Sanders and he went in the 5th round. I don't just hand out first round grades):
Darian Mensah
CJ Carr
Dante Moore
Arch Manning
Drew Mestemaker

Second round grade;
LaNorris Sellers
Trinidad Chambliss

I would happily take any of the top 5 guys above and believe truly that we have upgraded over Desaun Watson, let alone Shedeur Sanders.

I would trade up into the top 3 for Mensah and Carr, I would trade into the top 10 for Moore or Manning, the top 15 for Mestemaker. So trade evaluations would have to come once the draft order is set.

Public service announcement since this thread turned to QBs...

Make it a priority to watch Miami vs Notre Dame this weekend at 7:30 pm.. It will showcase two probable top ten picks in QBs Mensah and Carr.

Thanks!

Got to throw out the lineage... There was only one Manning... er wait.. there were only two Mannings... no, no, wait.. there were only THREE Mannings.

Seriously though. If any person that actually shows talent on film should have a leg up on "help", he's the guy. I don't know how much his uncles or grand father have offered.. maybe they are the reason he has climbed as high as he has already? But, they should be able to help him transition from college to pro, for at least all the environment questions that come into play. They will probably throw him back to his coaches on player questions, but the outside noise should be lessened with their help in that aspect.

The kid has way above average talent. I haven't seen the ability to take all levels of talent around him and elevate it into a non-stop force of willing a team to win under any circumstance. That's what Peyton had.. Eli did not. Eli had great teammates around him that made HIM better. Never saw the old man play, so I don't have any clue on him.

Expectations are at an all time high for him though, I don't think there was ever a chance at him meeting those. The kid is playing at a high level and reporters are calling for the back up QB? What has he done to warrant that?

I would be happy to get a QB in the draft with his skill set.