DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum PD: Prominent Changes Loom

:wiping dirt from her hands after digging in her winter garden: oh hush Purp and grab a rake darnit! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Again, I understand the frustration and that we have experienced another terrible season. I can barely even stomach going down to the pub to watch that game tomorrow. I've bitched and moaned through most games this year, I've hated what I have seen. It makes us all grumpy. I just don't want have anything premature done because we are all P.O. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Happy New Year, Peen. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

gotta grow my peppers somehow <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

You?? <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I feel bad too....got some grunge and feel like crap...I may not even go watch the darn game tomorrow...shoot.....I am a glutton at about everything I do...punishment isn't any different....I will be there. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


Happy New Year to you too!! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thats what happens when u hear check the dryer ever 15 mins while trying to discuss football. Pretending not to hear doesnt seem to work either, apparently she just gets louder,

Mediocrity would look like a water fountain in the desert to Browns' fans. I long for of mediocrity ... except for 2 seasons, we have watched either bad football (or no football) for 17 seasons. That said, I say give them another year. 8-8 is all I ask for '07.

No mediocrity - no peace!
No mediocrity - no peace!!

[color:"white"]

To me, that's part of the problem here. Furthermore, if we're looking at a situation where we've got firing Crennel at mid-season in the back of our minds, Hell, do the freakin' deed, get someone else, and go into free agency and the draft with a sense of direction.

I hate being this cut and dry on a subject, but if we're thinking about firing someone, do it and be done with it. Sitting in mental limbo with these questions going into the year is destined for failure. Either get behind Crennel 100% or fire him. If the organization takes away his coaches and his authority, he's allready done.[/color]

[color:"white"]

One more about the media here.

That's all we really need, is for Crennel's freakin' agent to stick his greasy hand into the pie <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Now he's put pressure on Lerner with one single quote, and if I'm the owner, I'm likely to get a little trigger-happy when an agent puts pressure on me. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, I'm saying that putting that quote out there from the agent is definitely the wrong one.

That little quote did absolutely nothing to help Crennel's cause. [/color]

The last two weeks have really sucked. Can't win in the division, can't beat Tampa Bay at home, we're in disarray, guys going on IR left and right.... Braylon can't shut his stupid trap...
It's depressing.
The wife and I have lived together three seasons now... the last three seasons we've had 4, 6 then (maybe) five wins.
Even she, who knows zero about football, is starting to say 'the Browns suck' because she's only known them to be losers. It's so pathetic that for the first time ever, I'm looking forward to tomorrow's game because I want them to lose so we can sew up that 3rd pick. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

When a coaches agent makes any comments the writing is usually on the wall.

If a quote from an agent (and not really an imflammatory remark) makes Lerner "trigger-happy", then he's dumber then even Vers thinks.

[color:"white"]I don't know if the writing is on a wall, but I know that an agent politicing for his guy through the media is the fastest way to to put a Bic into Lerner's hand while walking him directly to one.

My own personal feelings aside, that one little quote can scramble this egg all by itself, and things don't need any more scrambling at this time..........[/color]

[color:"white"]Don't overestimate these owners. Most of the incredibly weathly in this world absolutely FREAK OUT when people try and manipulate them. Most of the owners in this league are like that, and won't have their business dictated to them by anyone, especially an agent.

This is a delicate situation here. Pushing people's buttons..........anyone's buttons..........is asking for trouble.

Back to a comment I made in the other thread (one of many to come, I'm sure <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes_devil.gif" alt="" /> ) nobody can judge Crennel based on wins and losses. There isn't a coach in the history of this league that could have pulled a winning record out of THIS bunch of injured rabble and backups. However, judging Crennel based on how he's handled things as a coach is an entirely different story, and there's plenty to judge him on in that regard.

I refuse to assign blame for being handed a team that had the LEAST talent in the NFL. I refuse to assign blame to him for having 3 backups CB's starting. I refuse to assign blame for having deadbeats in Coleman and 'Druzzi playing guard.

But I will assign blame for looking lost far too often as a gameday coach. I will assign blame when he refuses to fire Carthon, and has his hand forced by everyone else in the organization despite the obviousness of the situation. And to me, the most damning thing of all, is when I see the players coming out and asking for more accountability and discipline. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> To me, that's unfathomable. No really good coach in history that I can remember has ever had that request come out while having a team that's going anywhere, and it's the one that sticks in my craw the most. [/color]

After all .... our last 3rd overall has worked out soooooooo well ........ <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

ttimothygman - We lost a couple of close games early. With Bentley perhaps we are able to win a couople of these games. Then all of a sudden we think we can win, the whole atmosphere around the teams changes. Don't underestimate what a little confidence and momentum can do. look at the Jets. they get the signature win against NE and they turn an expected lost season into a playoff year. Imagine how different our season would have been had we held on to win that 1st Balt game or the 1st Pitt game or God forbid both. 2 games we easily could have and should have won that would have had significantly more impact on our season than turning 2 losses into 2 wins.

[color:"white"]Be happy. Maybe it'll be the difference between starting Frye or a 1st round QB <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

One more time..
Rac probably won't be canned but a lot of assistants will be..
He isn't going to balk at that..but we may be surprised at who's let go..
And we will see some players exiting as well..

Wow... is my reaction to this thread.



Crennel isn't going anywhere. There will be an evaluation and changes, but they are building something here, not tearing it apart. The season, staff, and players all need to be evaluated and adjustments made, this is reasonable and to be expected in any off season, but they are not about to fire Romeo, at this juncture, no matter who's available. I guarantee they see a bigger picture of this season as a whole and have a clearer idea of where the real problems lie than Mary Kay or the fan base and will look for ways to improve the team all around. Including new coaches, players, and methods if necessary. They're not about to throw away the baby with the bath water at this juncture, not after this particular season. RAC deserves the opportunity to coach a team, with his system firmly in place and understood by key players, with a full compliment of talented players. Continuity is important, they know it, but they also realize, RAC included, that there are weak spots that showed up within the organization that stand out particularly in a season like this one. If he had put together a respectable 7-9, none of this is an issue. If he had done it with the injury riddled, back-up driven O-line and secondary, a second year QB surrounded by basically a brand new team all around, and with a new OC at mid season, he would've been hailed a hero. Didn't happen, by three games, (so far) three games that could have gone either way, so now he's on the "hot seat" according to some. But I believe a reasonable management team would understand this and more. I believe they understand that there is an ebb and flo to strengths and weaknesses of teams in the NFL, and because of an incredible streak of injuries at key positions with weak backups because of no depth in this new team, it never had the chance to get on it's feet. However there are serious improvements as well, and after another productive off season, improvements in talent, staff and players, after getting players healthy or replaced and putting together a revamped offensive coaching staff, RAC & Co. will get the opportunity they deserve to go out and account for themselves. As it should be.



Other Blockbuster names would also include Bill Belichick, Tony Dungy, Mike Holmgren-- uh! They're not available either... <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />



Much has been made of RAC's mis-handling of Edwards, and it's definitley one of those things that stands out this season, because of this season. Had it gone differently in the W/L column it is another non-issue. Even so, I believe that RAC has heard the cries of outrage, realized he didn't react soon enough or harshly enough and has taken steps to correct his earlier mishandling of the situation. This goes to core of complaints in terms of RAC's ability to head coach. About that, I will say this: I've been watching him closely, as many of you have, and I do see some of the things many of you have issue with in terms of his apparent laissez-faire stlye of leadership, but I also see a guy that really knows the league, the game, the talent, and the schemes. I see a guy that receives player loyalty and respect, and I see a guy that looks at talent in complete way, in a way that best helps the team. And I see a guy that actually puts together a game plan against his opponents, that for the most part would seem to work if the damn players would execute more than a third of the time. Of course I'm sure there are those examples of ineptitude on the sideline, and play calling or substitutions that were made that seemed rediculous at the time, but they don't stand out like they do if the team has more success executing the other plays called. But the bottom line: this team is actually moving forward. For the first time in years we actually have some serious talent on this team. Wimbley, Jones, Pool, Bodden, DQ, AD, Williams, K2, Joe J, Braylon (if he can develop into a premeire player,) Zast & Cribbs and we are building decent depth, our backups are getting quality playing time that will pay dividends over the long run and our young guys are getting that same kind of experience. The TEAM will be better next year with another infusion of talent, healthy players and another year under their belts, and a revamped OC staff. There is reason for hope here and I certainly believe that it's due in a large part to RAC and his abilities, I don't think that can be ignored when evaluating him as a coach, because on many levels, even though it hasn't shown up in the W/L column yet, he is getting the job done.

As always is JMHO.

:yawn: what a fascinating read Cal

Ditto

Autumn...i understand your Frustration...i have been putting up with this since like 83...

but we need to give RAC 1 more year.....Giving RAC 1 more year will be the biggest blessing for this team.

I personally don't like RAC, but he does not deserve to be fired yet, the guy hasn't even had a chance to fail yet.(I do belive he will fail) but we have go to give the guy a fair chance. If we fire RAc now, "No coach in their right mind would want to come here" and we would be relaly messing things up for the future of this franchise. Do you want us to be another Dan Snyder?(Owner of the Redskins)?

this is what i think Savage and Lerner have in mind, which would be the smartest move for them:

Give RAC 1 more year, if he succeeds, then all is well and Savage looks like a Genuis.

If RAc fails, Bill Cowher will most likely be avaliable, this is the guy's dream job, Cowher would come here in a Heartbeat and would "Immediatly" turn this thing around, with Cowher we do not have to scrap what we have, Cowher is a 3-4 coach, we keep the same Scheme.(With alot more blitzing)

Sticking with RAC will put Cowher right in our laps, and we would be foolish not to do it, i would take a losing season next year, if it assured us that we would get Cowher. with Cowher, these players will no longer get a free pass...when someone commits a stupid penalty you will see Cowher "In their face" grabbing their facemask screaming/jawing with them, letting that player know that type of conduct is unacceptable. Cowher will not put up with the garbage that has gone on here since 99....either this team will win, or Cowher will find players who can...that is the type of Coach he is, he is a no-nonesense don't put up with Bs kinda guy, and the guy has won a SB as a head coach, has been to the playoffs numerous times, the Guy knows how to win period

i would take Cowher over any other coach in a heartbeat, if we stick with RAC and get Cowher next year you will be thanking me when we go 11-5 under Cowher in his 1st season and outright win the friggin division sweeping the Steelers. Cowher will make it a point to beat his old team, Cowher is the only Coach who actually "Really Gets It" he understands the Browns Steelers rivirly and will get it started again like it was in the days of yore when Cowher was a coach here before

Stick with RAC...it will lead us to Cowher...and then our fortunes will begin to take a very positive swing for the next 12-13 years

I remember after 2003, there were rumblings that Cowher might be canned. Had that happened, I was hoping we'd fire Botch cuz Cowher was the guy I wanted.

I would bring in Martz.

I dont' know...

There's just something wrong with a guy who others have gone to the trouble of making an entire website about.. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

http://dumpmartz.com/

I'm gonna go with yours...



That's gonna be any HC's downfall...Especially with teams with high expectations going into a season...Following that...Coaches on the REAL HOT SEAT are...

1) John Fox---Carolina Love to hear HIM explain WTF went wrong...
2) Mora---Atlanta
3) Gibbs---Washington

Those are teams with REAL HIGH expectations that came crumbling down...

Then u have the HC's that are BUILDING something in order to get to that point...To the point of HAVING HIGH EXPECTATIONS...NONE of these teams had high expectations going in...And the yo-yo's that had Miami going to the SB are SUPER YO-YO's...That one still blows my mind...

1) ROMEO CRENNEL
2) Saban
3) Nolan



This can be argued all day long simply due to LACK of TALENT...If I was u I'd drop that one right now...We're building that RUN the ball down your throat type of team...SOLID D...Are we there yet???...NO...Are we getting there???...YES...Bentley...Shaffer...Added to the OL...Now we have a SERIOUS shot at a Top Notch LT talent from the DRAFT of all places...

THIS is Savages shot at proving he knows what he's doing...I see ALOT of Thomas/Gallery comparisons...Thomas is being pimped because he's the top LT and that's the ONLY reason he's being mentioned...So let's go Peterson and get the LT to groom in a later round...To those with that mentality I SAY [censored]!!!!!!!!!

Thomas is no Ogden...He's no Pace...We may NEVER again see Tackles like that in our LIFETIME...What Thomas IS...Is a TOP NOTCH SURE FIRE SUCCESS at LT...And if he's not the #1 pick in this draft...He BEST BE A BROWN come April...

VERS...I heard u say if we sign Leonard Davis u will PUKE...I believe u say this because he is yet another FA...Guess what...Cincy has big contracts on Jones/Anderson...TACKLES...And they'd be IGNORANT to let Steinbach walk because of $$$...Have they not seen the WILD increase in Cap available to every team???...If they let Steinbach go it's because they have NO CLUE how to operate in Cap atmosphere...That OL is BY FAR the strongest unit on that team and it's the SOLE reason that Offense is as potent as it is...

We draft Thomas...We sign Davis...We get Bentley back for C OR LG...With Shaffer you've got FOUR YOUNG KICK ASS PIECES OF A DOMINANT OFFENSIVE LINE TO RUN THE BALL DOWN FOLKS THROATS IN JANUARY ON THE LAKEFRONT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We don't have a QB that will demand a high $$$ contract...And prolly WON'T for years...U invest that differential in the MOST IMPORTANT UNIT OF THIS TEAM...And u are well on your way to being successful in whay u are trying to build...

THOMAS
BENTLEY
WHOEVER
DAVIS
SHAFFER

And if u want Bents at Center???...We are ONE LEFT GUARD away from DOMINANCE...And that LG is EASY to find in rounds 2 and 3 of ANY draft...THAT would be the most dominant interior offensive line the NFL has seen in years...And would put us well on our way to playin' football on the shores of Lake Erie DEEP INTO JANUARY YEARLY!!!!!!!!!!



Is this RAC or the inexperienced Coordinators and players on this team at this point???



CHEAP SHOT Bro...He signed em' to an extension...He's got Wimbley the rookie who everyone says RAC NEVER plays in their 1st season...He's got Jones back there kickin' ass and takin' names later...A DAVIS pick at that...C'mon...U sound like you're flyin' off the cuff of EMOTION like everyone else...I'm surprised at u...



I don't like this one either coming from u...RAC doesn't show that EMOTIONAL FIRE of a Cowher on the sidelines...BFD...That just ain't his style...SO WHAT...And if he DID???...The dude might just have a Coronary Attack on National TV...He IS a tad bit overweight No???...lol...



This one's open...AGAIN...Is it the inexperienced coordinators or RAC TELLING them what to do???...We don't know this...Is it the knowing what your team is CAPABLE of at this point???...This secondary was DEVESTATED beyond reality all year long...And we know that the CORNERS in a 3-4 D are PIVOTAL to dictate exactly what u can and cannot do...

U go throwing Bodden and a Samuel out there and [censored] will change in a hurry...Watch if we don't go after that dude and have Cutch and Minter as our 3 and 4 Corners in 07...



More emotion talking...INEXPERIENCE!!!!!!!!!!

IF RAC loses his job it will be hugely dictated by his handling of an Edwards...And without knowing exactly how it was handled BEHIND CLOSED DOORS we know NUTTIN'...It's ALL speculation on our parts and every swingin' Media Outlet in Cleveland/Akron/Columbus...

I would love to have Cowher here. He is the ONE guy I would want above all others. But, I just have to ask you this: Is your post really how you feel or a collegiate satirical piece? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes_devil.gif" alt="" />


Oh.........and Peen. Martz is an idiot. He is okay as an OC, but makes more stupid decisions than any HC in recent memory.

Really? I know he has Cleveland Browns roots but after all this years with the steelers his fondness of the Browns has to have been skewed, at least some. Plus with the state of affairs in our organization would anybody (except a few posters on this board) consider coaching the Browns a dream job?

Seems I remember you saying that about Nat the Kat.

My only point is I wouldn't toss around words like "sure fire" .

You STILL don't get it.

You do NOT build the o-line through free agency. Once it is built, it is okay to add a free agent every once in awhile, but building your OL through FA is moronic.

Furthermore, Leonard Davis is an underachieving piece of [censored]. He's played LT and won't come cheap. If we sign him, I'm coming to look for you right after I beat Opie's ass.

And you are mentioning a kick-ass line that includes Shaffer. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> Shaffer is a stiff. I kept him on my line only because I know Savage won't release him after giving him that idiotic contract. The sooner we cut ties w/the guy, the better off we are.

Look...........Opie already has put us behind, but hopefully he gets it now. We need to start drafting OL every year....just like the Eagles, Colts, and Bengals. We can start by drafting Thomas. Then, I would take a guard in the 3rd or 4th. Next year, we grab a RT or another G in rd. 2. We will be on our way to having a decent line.

You [censored] kill me, you know? You run around here telling everyone to be patient, then you turn around and wanna "fix" the OL through free agency. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> It don't work, Rock head.

Later, bro. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Davis was a high draft pick with high expectations and has been living off the expectations for years. He has done nothing to warrent the contract he will get as a free agent. He can't even secure a position on the Arizona o-line.

NO...YOU still don't get it...And u even say so yourself...



CORRECT...

U keep harping on NO CHANGES...For continuity sakes...I AGREE...

Because of guys like Policy & Clark...Davis...We're even IN this position...If u want CONTINUITY in the Coaching staff and FO...IT HAS TO BE DONE THIS WAY...Or we'll see yet another clearing house give away because it will take THREE YEARS MINIMUM to get the entire Line from the DRAFT...

It's the backassward way of doing it but at this point IT IS NECESSARY...And we have the cap space available to do it...And in that same 3 year period of time with SOLID OL DRAFTING we can start getting rid of the high $$$ guys (Shaffer/Davis)...And these discussions will not exist anymore...And we'll have some FO and Coaching CONTINUITY for once...

Bentley/Shaffer/Davis is NOT an all FA Offensive Line...

U want the Staffs to be kept in force and have a CHANCE???...It ain't gonna happen by ignoring FA when it comes to this Offensive Line problem we've been having for years...U START the process NOW...And don't ignore bringing in a SOLID piece for several years...The NEW boys will not be ready in ONE YEAR...And we only have ONE as of now in Sowells...

GET IT YET???

If not...Get your head outta your ass AND GET IT.......

Happy New Year <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes_devil.gif" alt="" />

VERS...

i agree that you don't address ANY unit strictly via FA...but i do not understand why you ignore an available talent simply b/c he's played in the NFL before...why is that a strike against him? does a FA cost more? yep...but at least you know what you're getting. honestly, is the aquisition of Bentley a joke b/c he was a FA? if we had drafted him, that's ok but if you sign him away from someone else, then it's a stupid move?

Shaffer's signing was a very questionable move, but it would be nice to see him play on a line with some cohesiveness, next to a G who can still move, and/or on the other end of the line. perhaps Savage saw Shaffer as a stopgap LT to be moved to RT after we had groomed a LT draftee. that's pure spin based on the currrent status, but it's not impossible that was the case. fact is we don't know if Savage's rebuilding plan will work b/c its not done yet...my house wasn't very pleasant to live in before the walls and the roof were put in, but that doesn't mean anything now...

The dude ain't a LEFT TACKLE...And Denny Green don't get it...

He needs to be on the right side of the line...He's a MAULER...He ain't a LT...

I'd bet the HOUSE that is exactly what Savage envisions...And I'd also bet the HOUSE that Tucker is no longer on this team come April...

And I'd bet HALF the house that Joe Thomas is the Day One Starter at LT on this team...(HALF only because we might pull a brain fart here in 7 hours and SCREW it up by winning today)

And I'd bet the other half of the house that Shaffer is our RT next year and beyond...

And I'd bet THREE HOUSES that VERS will [censored] and moan even when Shaffer's the FOURTH BEST LINEMAN HERE!!!!!

The entire premise of your post is whacked.

RAC won't be here after next year. Guaranteed!

Where ya' been?

DAYTON...

yeah, but what are the chances that after years of being paid LT money, he settles for RG money?...especially if Denny offers him even avg. LT money to stay. either that or there only has to be 1 other coach in the league that will try and use him as a stopgap, as we've done with Verba, Shelton, and Shaffer. then there's this...

link

[color:"yellow"] TEMPE, Ariz. (AP) -- Offensive tackle Leonard Davis could be playing his final game as an Arizona Cardinal on Sunday.

Davis, the No. 2 pick behind Michael Vick in the 2001 draft, acknowledged Thursday there is a fair chance he will be playing elsewhere next season.

"It wouldn't surprise me," he said.

The 6-foot-6, 360-pound lineman is earning $9.1 million in the final year of the contract he signed as a rookie. Asked if he wanted to come back or felt it was time to move on, Davis said, "I don't know. This whole thing is a business."

Publicly, the Cardinals are noncommittal.

"I expect that we're going to sit down at the end of the season and evaluate our commitment to one another," said Rod Graves, vice president for football operations.

But there is a good chance the franchise will decide Davis is not worth the kind of money he will command. In six NFL seasons, Davis has never made the Pro Bowl.

"I would definitely like to make it," he said, "but the reality is there's a lot of variables to it."

Davis said his time in Arizona has been made more difficult by his moves from right guard to right tackle to left tackle.

"I've definitely gotten better," he said. "I mean, playing three positions, you kind of wonder how you'd be if you played the same position."

Davis was an obvious pick for the Cardinals in 2001 after he left Texas following his junior season. He has been durable, too, starting 90 games, including all 15 this season.

The offensive line has been a longstanding problem for the Cardinals, but it improved late in this season once coach Dennis Green settled on the lineup. Davis is the only lineman to start in the same position every game this season.

Davis said he isn't thinking about next year, concentrating instead on Sunday's finale at San Diego. If the Cardinals don't re-sign him, he will become an unrestricted free agent in March.

"I have one more game to play," he said. "After that I'll say 'OK, let's talk contract." [/color]

look at those quotes and tell me there's any hint that he's gonna agree to taking less money from another bad team to play a position he thinks he's better than...

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

I'm saying that you don't build an offensive line through free agency. I wasn't talking about the entire team. Offensive linemen are very valuable in the NFL market. GM's love those big guys even if the fans don't. Teams overpay for offensive linemen. Obviously, overpaying is not a good thing.

You need to build the o-line through the draft for two reasons.
1] Economics
2] It takes time to develop offensive lineman and you need to develop guys when you lose your starters through free agency, retirement, injury, or if some of them bust.

I do think it is okay to bring in a veteran offensive lineman through free agency if your line is already built and you are a contending team. But, building the line through free agency is a recipe for disaster.


I'm the wrong guy to use analogies on. I can tell Savage's house isn't going to be very good because he put on the siding, the shingles, and the windows before he built the foundation.

Let me add this. If Opie drafts Joe Thomas this year, I will sing his praises w/fervor.

Something I have had a problem with and we havent mentioned to much. We dont even know what we want for an offensive line. we sign one FA that is a zone blocker in Shaffer, we sign one that is a man up blocker in Bentley. This one was a bit confusing then and i still aint really sure what type of offensive scheme we want to run. then we have andruzzi that doesnt block either way lol cheap shot i know lol

I'm guessing we got shaffer, just because he's an LT and he was available. i'm not too enamored with him, but we all knew shelton was a stiff too. I think that we really want maulers more then zone blockers, just because of the defenses in our division.

Good one : Drop a note to uncle Phil & RAC ... I would love to hear their response <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />