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Ahhh...talk about selective Pdawg.
I was just pointing out the problem with your QB rating stats for the last 5 games. I am not justifing anything with them. That is the difference.
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1. the Winter game with Buffalo didn't skew his stats. Don't know what his rating was for the game..
It was in the 50 range. That will drop him a few points. 
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Ahhh now the big fantasy game by DA supporters. The Bengal game.
Terrible wind how can we blame DA.
a. 3 out of his 4 INTs came in the 2nd n 3rd qtr...the strong altering winds were from the other directional. All 3 of those INTs came from the better throwing direction.
b. INT #1 a short pass 2-5 yards down field straight in front of DA...panicking a little as some pressure came through a horrible pass to his check down...INT and easy score by Bengals. Nothing to do with the wind.
First thing I would like to know is who are these DA supporters that excuse his poor play because of the stats. 
The wind was a pretty major factor in the game overall. When it comes to his picks I agree with you. His two picks right before half were plain stupid. One was a horrible throw and the wind wouldn't have made a difference. The second one the wind may have played a part but he should have never tried the pass IMO because of the game situation. Little time on the clock, he just threw a pick that turned into a TD, you have to be a little smarter. The third pick? I don't know. Looked like he just under threw the ball and it hit the defender on the helmet. The fourth was a perfectly thrown imo but he never bothered to look off the guy who jumped the route. 
My point is when you post the stat of 7 picks and 6 TDs it does make a difference if four were all in one game.
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Its called a Deadbate Pdawg..
Debate is good.
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I'm going to what great lengths to justify things.
Sure, in this post.
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I'm stating a fact...he digressed the 2nd half and he continued to digress in our 5 games in December
You used QB rating and TDs to ints. That is not enough to base an opinion on, especially since we are talking about a fairly short time frame.
I don't think he digressed as much in the last 5 games as others have said, especially when people use stats for their main arguement. Look at the first Cincy game. His QB rating was a lot higher than his play indicated. Same thing in Oakland and the Pittsburgh game. His play was highly overrated early on IMO and underrated later. His play in the Buffalo game was stellar IMO. Horrible conditions and he was careful not to turn the ball over and was able to move the ball well enough with the pass. Jamal's running was the largest part of the victory but it's a lot easier to run then pass in a blizzard.
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You think mine suffers by saying that DA digressed and especially digressed in the month of December with an unbelieveable easy schedule?
Just because a schedule is easy it does't mean those teams aren't good when it comes to parts or their whole defenses.
The Jets D didn't seem to be that bad. Either did Buffalo's. Zona is hot and cold, as well as San Fran's. Cincy, well they just suck.
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Laugh all you want and then call my post lacking credibility.
My comment wasn't directley pointed at you. Well at least not you alone.
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Well how bout being credible and state something pertinent in the equation here....Snow day and Palmer had a bad day too. Of course the Bengals having nothing to play for and were totally depressed as a team had nothing to do with it.
So you are trying to tell me that Cincy really didn't care? That Carson just mailed it in? Cincy couldn't have cared less about knocking us out of the playoffs?
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Funny I too feel DA is a very average QB...but I see one of stating why he feels that way..
Again, how is posting a meaningless stat enough to show why you feel a certain way?
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I see - all are allowed to join the deadbate except for me? Love the way that works.
 Do you want us to throw you a pity party?
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You can join the growing crowd of those who loathe me...trust me I don't care one way or another.
I don't loathe you because a post with nothing other then a meaningless stat. Hell, I don't loathe you at all. The only time I ever took issue with you I made it known to all why.
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But don't call my football Incredulous...not with what is brought to the table by others.
Show me were I ever said this. Hell, just start by telling me the meaning of the word " Incredulous". I think I even made the general comment about those who are usually "credible".
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those words that give you concern to call me on my credibility and mock me with a
I called partial stats posted by you funny. Thus the Never did I say you were not credible. Same old Eo to make a mountain out of a molehill. By the way, didn't you say a while ago that you weren't posting on this board anymore? 
#gmstrong
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#gmstrong
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All Pro
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Just use the magic 8-ball like you usually do...
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JL had better be resigned... It's a good fit for all... IMO Hope to see RAC get a nice well deserved raise... I'm just not for an extension, yet, when 40% of his contract still remains... As much as I hate to admit it... I have to back DA until the day he is not the starter... I have been one of the DA sucks guys... Up to when he took over as the starter... He will be the starter next year... Next year starts with camp... I don't see a 10-5 starter getting unseated by anyone in camp. Evidently DA is not a great practice or camp guy... If he was CF wouldn't have won the job last year and the Rats wouldn't have cut him... We shall see... You know I am one who is still waiting for DA to be who he usually is... The QB who faulterd at the end of the 07 season... I love that The Browns went after BQ and that he should be the Browns future... I truly hope to see BQ lead the Browns to a decade or so of division championships, a AFC championship or two and an SB or two... I believe BQ's future is on hold until DA faulters... We shall see... May peace be with you and yours my Browns Brother. 
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"I was just pointing out the problem with your QB rating stats for the last 5 games. I am not justifing anything with them."
Well I've posted about DA technically and I'm told by DA supporters that its hog wash - he has thrown 29 TDs and yada, yada, yada.
btw - guess what those aren't my QB rating stats they are DA's. here it is in a nutshell I've been told over n over that DA is good and should be kept here because of this stat and that stat...sure stats are skewed.
but for the ones who cannot understand the technique and footwork or those who can and totally ignore them cause it don't fit their agenda. There are stats...after all that all they bring to the table regarding DA. The other calling card is that DA can and will get better...he's like a rookie, he's just a first year starter, what ever. Well I wish to point out I didn't see progress from him...actually if anything I saw him digress. He fell in the 2nd half of the season and mostly with the Month of December...its not a small data base...its actually 1/3 of his starts in 07.
"It was in the 50 range. That will drop him a few points."
Well thanks for the guess...talk about my flawed fact...with a guess. Probably a good guess but you are the one making a claim here...give us the facts.
"First thing I would like to know is who are these DA supporters that excuse his poor play because of the stats."
Come on quit playing games - you've read probably most the posts on this subject on the board. Almost all to a man will throw the 29 TDs out there as a fact (which it is and latch onto it as a stat that justifies) but when there is a stat given like QB completion pct. it is always trifled. Who? every single one???
"The wind was a pretty major factor in the game overall. When it comes to his picks I agree with you."
And yet you give the impression that the stat of 66 QB rating is skewed cause of the wind at the Bengal game. Well which is it...When it comes to his picks you agree with me...well what was the biggest statistical factor that brought down his rating? The INTS...if they weren't wind aided how could the wind be the skew factoid in my theory that he digressed in the month of December.
"My point is when you post the stat of 7 picks and 6 TDs it does make a difference if four were all in one game."
Why do those numbers seem smaller than what I posted??? Maybe it looks better if the 4 picks is less than half. probably an oversight of convenience...I think it was 8 INT n 7 TDs. But your point is that cause the INTs were heavily on one game (probably the most important one as to be close to a money pressure game.) I see so the fact is trivialized? Not once did I say - 29 TDs! yeah but he had 5 in one game. Take away those 5 cause they skew the stats....They are there. My status was for games in December what did DA do for me. Look good? or Digressed? the Bengal game was a big part of it but not the only part. Buffalo game...I thought he played good even though he might of had a QB rating of 50....don't matter how many good statistical games did he have - I don't ask for those to be discounted. But again the graph I saw went down not up.
Which was my point.
"Sure, in this post."
Thats a crock...you posted I was going at great lengths to justify things in probably the shortest post...and it was questioning a factual snippet that I posted that was one brief sentence long. Yeah I have to justify it after you hint that it lacks credibility.
"You used QB rating and TDs to ints. That is not enough to base an opinion on, especially since we are talking about a fairly short time frame."
And yet it seems to be good enough to use as a WHY DA SHOULD BE OUR STARTER...I see stats can only be used on one side of a debate...sounds fair
Especially a short time frame...sorry that was One Third of his total starts! Not selective of his worst game...just his last third of the season...if I am not allowed to state his documented statistics for the third of the season - then how can I claim in my opinion he is digressing...so let me get this straight - basically you are telling me I am not allowed to have an opinion...and don't I dare try to prove it with stats.
Otay yet the calling card on DA is the stat he threw 29 TDs. But we should make a long term contract on him for that fact...we are stupid for utilizing 08's draft pick on BQ. But the fact he did poorly in his last third of his starts is irrelevant - too small of a data base...lol  How convenient huh?!
"I don't think he digressed as much in the last 5 games as others have said.
I don't know what others have said - all I know is what I said and I don't know how to make any simpler...Our Defense was getting better and having better results (pressure and turnovers).
Our OL was taking on whatever teams were throwing at us and giving DA excellent pass protection and we were picking up an extreme high percentages of the blitzes being thrown at us.
Our running game was gaining in momentum and becoming a concern of other teams.
Our weapons remained healthy and intact.
Our opponents were consistently bottom tier of the NFL for the entire month.
"His play was highly overrated early on IMO and underrated later."
Just cause it might have been overrated you act as if that automatically means its underrated...actually I've tried to remain consistent and gave him his due when he played better statistically...cause as a fact the first 8 games was the toughest part of our schedule and with the easy part of our schedule coming up we were in a position to get into the playoffs and he was a part of that...never denied that and gave him his due.
this wasn't about what others have said about him in the last 5 games...its about what I have said about him in the last five games...don't justify your opinion with other posters...it was my post..and my opinion.
" Just because a schedule is easy it does't mean those teams aren't good when it comes to parts or their whole defenses.
The Jets D didn't seem to be that bad."
Huh? You're recognizing the schedule was easy - I got news for you there is no such thing as easy with a team with a good defense. The Ravens made a living with a good defense...there demise last year came after the defense simply couldn't dominate the way it had in the past. But their defense that we saw was way better than any of the 5 of our EASY part of the schedule.
Sure the Jets statistically played the pass well (#9)...their offense stunk and when behind which was often teams ran against them...You do realize that outside of the Dolphins they were the most Rush attempted against team in the NFL. Hmmm wonder what the Dolphins pass D was rated considering they were the worst team in the NFL and most Rush attempt against team in the NFL....oh yeah I see they were #4 ranked pass defense in the NFL.
The Jets D stunk...they were an easy game in our schedule and the Defense stunk as bad as the Offense...just a well balanced team!
49ers were next at #22 against the pass. They had a terrible reputation as a pass defense team.
The Bengals were #26 in the NFL...Zona 28th...and Bills 29th.
Guess what this was the easiest part of our schedule up and down! Inside and out anyway you wish to look at it.
"My comment wasn't directley pointed at you. Well at least not you alone." - I just find it amusing how people who I believe are usually credible going to great lengths to try to justify things.
And yet you pasted my comment and made your post...sorry how was that not directed to me? It was about my post and yes the statement said "people" - and definitely including me in there as stating or insinuating that this post wasn't credible.
"So you are trying to tell me that Cincy really didn't care? That Carson just mailed it in? Cincy couldn't have cared less about knocking us out of the playoffs?"
I think you got me on that one...they were a mess and should have made it easier to beat them as long as we didn't let them in the game...but Yep you are right - I was grasping for straw on that one. 
"telling me the meaning of the word " Incredulous".
I have no clue if its a real word or I made it up...it flowed from the keyboard and felt right...also there was no red line under it by Windows telling me it was mispelled. (like it is under mispelled) so I assume its a real word.
Your quote is there above...now you are saying that its credible????
"I called partial stats posted by you funny. Thus the Never did I say you were not credible."
I see - funny? must be my reading comprehension problem
And of course partial stats...whatever fact is I was quoting a Cleveland Brown staff writer's partial stats that are to you funny and yet they seem to feel it aprapo to class them under a heading of Area of Concern. Which again was my point - I have an area of concern on how he finished...probably the Browns do to.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Jamal, he will stay because of our line. PS will work out the details. JL does not want a situation that limits his touches or ability to make big plays, he is more or less guaranteed those things here. I think he'll resign sooner or LATER.
DA... I think we should avoid jumping into a contract with him until we test the waters. We should sign him long term only if there are no significant offers or if we can keep him cheap. After the smoke clears if he has not generated any FA interest then his contract will be very managable(SP?) and we will be dealing from the position of power. We can always slap the tag on him if need be... I don't see the need.
RAC gets an extention for winning... I thought that was his job. I'm sure there must be more to it than that, like the money Chud got. I think we should wait untill the end of next season to renegoiate his deal personally. He has had TWO bad years and ONE good year. So he finally does his job and turns in a winning season, whats all the hype about? Had we went 6-10 or 7-9 he would be gone. Are you telling me 3-4 wins make that much difference WITHOUT making the playoffs? GMAFB. So far I rate him average. I don't dislike him but I also don't think highly him as a HC just yet. Next year will tell the story... If we have another good (maybe great) year then pay the man accordingly.
BUT what do I know, this is just MHO.
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Interesting how U say some are using stats to discredit DA..YET U want to take out two games and show his QB rating went up... I see certain people want to throw out the Bengal game..welll ya can't ..it was played...he made critical mistakes...if U want to argue the wind interferred with the pass(  )..then WHY throw it in those circumstances? Those were the same ridiculous decisions he made in games where weather was no factor at all.. I can say on the two back to back picks..those were horrible decisions to throw into coverage.. Sounds like manipulating to me... Lets ask this...did DA's play IMPROVE in the last 7 games than from the first 7 games? And he played well the first 7 games..so did he actually get better from the bye week? If U answer yes..then show where he improved.. See there a handful that claim when you show the book on him...it's being biased and say stuff like others are going to extreme lengths to discredit him.....and they aren't buying it.. Well I ain't selling nothing..and I ain't buying the counter arguments..it sounds more like denial... I know what I saw and the book on him backs it up..and I sure won't back off how I described him from the offseason... U think other GM's and defensive coordinators don't look at film and stats themselves? U think if he was all that that he wouldn't have already been locked down as a franchise QB? He hasn't because he's got some serious flaws.. Just show me how DA became a BETTER QB in the second half of the season if U can.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 01/28/08 10:39 AM.
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Hey Diam, this is my reply to your post that mysteriously disappeared.
nothing mysterious about it ... I deleted it as I decided that Eo didn't need my help .. he was doing fine without me ...
what was it up for .. all of 2 minutes?? *L* ..
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That my friend is why I brought it up. I actually retabulated the Dec. games without those two. His QB rating went up to a whooping 73 (or was it 76?)
U know sometimes I can be dumber than a doorknob .. well this must be one of those times .. as I have no clue what in the hell u are saying .. 
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As you know I think stats can be useful. The thing is they are only useful As a tool) when you take everything into consideration. Saying he regressed and using his QB rating as proof doesn't cut it.
i agree with U ... if used correctly stats are a good tool .. problem is that just like in this case .. throwing out one stat to justify sumptin is just total BS .. problem here is that 90% of the guys hangin on DA's jock solely talk about two things .... TD's and wins ... thats it ... like DA gets all the credit for all the wins and his TD #'s mean he is a good QB and mask over everything else .. thats HORSECRAP ...
and then U take a BS stat that tab throws out and make fun of his use of it ... when all he is doing is as he pointed out is fighting fire with fire ... he has laid out MANY MANY times what he thinks is wrong with DA and NEVER INCLUDED STATS .... NEVER .... and then when u fight fire with fire u question him on it???? U have plenty of dolts that just throwout stats to make their case on this one to pick on ... Ushould have chose one of them instead of Eo .. cause he isn't one of them as he has laid out his case many times without using the dumbb ass stats the less knowledgable rely on to make thier points ...
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Yes it was. The God above didn't want DA to look good because if DA did Quinn would never see the fild as a Brown.
and the moral of this story is ...... it pays to go to ND bro cause then u have the good lord on your side ...
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The whole 7 int stat doesn't show constant plat throughout the past 5 games if 4 of them happened in just one.
*LOL* .... go re-read that and make sure U want to seriously stand by that statement .. i know i wouldn't want to .. *LOL* ...
it was actually 8 picks ... and it was INDICITAVE OF his play over the last 5 games ... why?? cause thats how many pick he threw .... but if u do want to play games and MANIPULATE THE #'S EVEN FURTHER ... then u need to take out his best game over that span as far as TD passes go ... so we'd ahve to take out 2 TD passes as he threw for two in a game 3 times over that span ...
so that would mean if we take out the two high #'s ... he threw for 5 TD's and 4 picks .. ya .. thats pretty good ... ...
guess u went from selective use of stats to selective use of stat manipulation ... hmmm .. gotta come up with a catchy phrase for that one ...
SELECTIVE USE OF STAT MANIPULATION IS ........
feel free to help out on this one .. we'll make it a contest .. whoever comes up with the best ending will win ..... hmmmmm ... hows about a get out of Diam's wrath for a month card .. *LOL* ...
I've said it before bro .. i hate the way folks use stats on here .. but dont think because I hate how their used on here doesnt mean I dont know how to use them ...
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The fact is IMO the only stat that says "wow" to me is his completion rate on short passes, especially on third downs. Those are stats that just can't be manipulated on their own.
do they say WOW in a good or a bad way ... cause I do'nt know what they are .. my guess is its wow in a bad way ... and if thats the case ... I'll point out a few others that should make u go .. WTF?????????? ....
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Don't even get me started with the Zona game - another bad game of DA's.
What I hate,, I absolutly hate,, is when people say stuff like "another bad game of DA's" and don't tell the story to completion..
YES, it surely was NOT one of his games to brag about,,, In fact, if you had to judge DA by one game and you chose that one, he'd SUCK.
But here's the thing.. in the very end, he throws a pass that IF the refs hadn't had thier heads up thier collective butt, would have won the game for us.. Great pass, Greater Catch by KW..
The Refs rob us on that BUT all we can talk about is how bad a game DA had? That is what SUCKS..
Thing is, if Tom Brady has a bad game (and if you look, he's had several this year) but comes back on the last play of the game and throws a game winner,, it's just fine. and the only reason for that is tom Brady has won 3 SB's and as such is afforded a bad game here and there.. (as it should be, he's earned it)
But DA is just starting for the first time in his life (I don't care that he's been in the league for 3 years)..
I don't know this and I ain't gonna research it, but I bet you could find lots of holes in Tom Brady his first year as a starter...
THIS IS NOT TO COMPARE TOM BRADY TO DA.. IT'S JUST AND EXAMPLE........
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Sorry Daman..but he played poorly in the Cards game..
He as usual made some bad decisions and threw into coverage a lot (which is a trade mark of his) ..hence the picks..
Fact is the Browns weren't going to get that call at the end..that ain't what lost the game..it sealed it but the mistakes killed the Browns..
It shouldn't have come down to that play anyway..
And once again using another QB to make the same case disqualifies it...
Brady is a hecka lot better than DA...one area..accuracy in the short areas..and he doesn't make the boneheaded decisions that DA does..
And FYI you are trying to compare their first years as starters...
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"But here's the thing.. in the very end, he throws a pass that IF the refs hadn't had thier heads up thier collective butt, would have won the game for us.. Great pass, Greater Catch by KW."
I see so one "IF" pass should define his game? Am I in some animated world right now
Lets put it this way...DA's play that game put us in a position to lose...not win. I try not to write a novel and the one part where I say...don't get me started on it... you cry foul and want me to state more...but no actually You want YOU TO TELL ME WHAT HAPPENED...IF 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Interesting how U say some are using stats to discredit DA..YET U want to take out two games and show his QB rating went up...
See my very next post. I was baiting my buddy Diam to respond.
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Lets ask this...did DA's play IMPROVE in the last 7 games than from the first 7 games?
Hell no.
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And he played well the first 7 games..so did he actually get better from the bye week?
If U answer yes..then show where he improved..
I think he played inconsistant before and after the bye.
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See there a handful that claim when you show the book on him...it's being biased and say stuff like others are going to extreme lengths to discredit him.....and they aren't buying it..
I gotta admit I tend to skip over certain posters. The ones that were gaga over DA in the beginning of the year I had disagreements with. Some people stick with an opinion so they won't have to admit they were wrong. Those type of posters I stop reading for the most part.
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U think other GM's and defensive coordinators don't look at film and stats themselves?
U think if he was all that that he wouldn't have already been locked down as a franchise QB?
Yes I do. Some GMs are desperate enough to think they can pickup a guy like DA and make him great. I think they are nuts. I also think those people who think anyone who will give us a high tender for him are also.
#gmstrong
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I haven't ventured down what I think teams would give us ..
But from what I've read..Phil wants him one more year to evaluate him thoroughly.
A 3 year contract will do it and protect us in the event Derek doesn't improve.
IT won't take 3 years to figure this out..it'll take one more offseason to see..this one coming up..IF Derek is stubborn and wants a five year contract then it's goodby Derek no doubt.
I think 3 years is Phils best mileage offer...meaning I don't think he'll go 4 or 5 years ..the money is something I don't get into..
They'll slap the one year tender on him if he wants a longer or too hefty a contract....
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First, lets start off with an apology. I did laugh at your one post of meaningless stats. I did it because I know you are better than that. I don't regret doing it at all. I do regret ripping into you in my reply. I know damn well that you are very sensative and instead of trying to be cordial in my response I took digs at you with the purpose of setting you off. Now to your latest post... Quote:
but for the ones who cannot understand the technique and footwork or those who can and totally ignore them cause it don't fit their agenda.
I understand your arguement. I don't know if the fact that his size 17 shoes makes it impossible to be fixed (I think Toad said that).
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Well thanks for the guess...talk about my flawed fact...with a guess. Probably a good guess but you are the one making a claim here...give us the facts.
I did look it up before I responded to your post. the thing is I forgot to write it down before I closed the browser window. My computer was acting up so I didn't want to take the time to go back through opening another window. It was 57.1 and Cincy was 53.4
I also replied to Diam that I figured out his QB rating with those two games excluded. He is too brain dead to understand what I was talking about so I'll repeat it. Diam read slowly... Those two games really didn't impact his numbers much because his numbers in the other games weren't great either. He was still only in the low to mid 70's range. Then again I think QB rating stats are bogus by themselves. look at the first Cincy game for a good example of how they can be inflated.
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Come on quit playing games - you've read probably most the posts on this subject on the board. Almost all to a man will throw the 29 TDs out there as a fact (which it is and latch onto it as a stat that justifies) but when there is a stat given like QB completion pct. it is always trifled. Who? every single one???
Maybe I should have said respectable posters. I don't read a lot ofthe post that prop up DA as a great QB. I will skim through them and disregard them. I do know there are far, far fewer posters who are saying DA is great opposed to those that give him absolutely no credit.
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Why do those numbers seem smaller than what I posted??? Maybe it looks better if the 4 picks is less than half. probably an oversight of convenience...I think it was 8 INT n 7 TDs.
No, I just didn't remember them right.
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And yet it seems to be good enough to use as a WHY DA SHOULD BE OUR STARTER...I see stats can only be used on one side of a debate...sounds fair
No, they shouldn't. I hardly respod to people on that side of the arguement for the reasons above and for the fact enough others call them on it.
To be clear, I don't think DA should be the starter. I think we need to get him under contract if we can. He should be listed as the starter in name only. If Quinn out preforms him in training camp Quinn should start. We need to kee DA if at all possible because we don't know what the future holds. He could get hurt, he can be a huge bust, we just don't know. If we can get a quality backup then we can move DA. He will still have value if he loses the job to Quinn. It is probably not possible to sign him to a contract that is reasonable but we need to try. I would rather get less for him than to get rid of him and find out we blew it.
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And yet you give the impression that the stat of 66 QB rating is skewed cause of the wind at the Bengal game. Well which is it...When it comes to his picks you agree with me...well what was the biggest statistical factor that brought down his rating?
Int's and TDs are the biggest difference makers. I just think you have to take into account the conditions the QBs were under. High wind makes it much more difficult to throw certain routes, You have to try and compensate in other ways. Da's bet part of his game are the longer intermediate routes. The worst is his short game. High winds go against his strength.
This also proves that he is an incomplete player. I don't think it shows quite the amount of regression in his play but mearly his greatest weakness. I think he can improve on that weakness.
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Just cause it might have been overrated you act as if that automatically means its underrated...
No I don't think this at all. I am on record how I thought he was very lucky in the early games that so many possible ints were dropped. People dismissed that as it all evens out in the end. I didn't buy it and was proven right I believe.
The same thing goes for this arguement.
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Huh? You're recognizing the schedule was easy - I got news for you there is no such thing as easy with a team with a good defense. The Ravens made a living with a good defense.
I think you are confusing good with great. The Ravens went something like 5 games without scoring an offensive touchdown yet won all or most of those games. Oakland's D was considered by many football analyst yet they sucked as a team. The thing is if you are not able to move the ball on offense at all you put tremendous pressure on your D. When teams played us their offenses were able to play better, in large part because our D was so bad. That helped their defenses.
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And yet you pasted my comment and made your post...sorry how was that not directed to me? It was about my post and yes the statement said "people" - and definitely including me in there as stating or insinuating that this post wasn't credible.
I should have made it more of a general reply. I do this often. Something I need to work on. I did include you, but only for the one post. Not all of your thoughts on the subject.
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"telling me the meaning of the word " Incredulous".
I have no clue if its a real word or I made it up...it flowed from the keyboard and felt right...also there was no red line under it by Windows telling me it was mispelled. (like it is under mispelled) so I assume its a real word.
I was taking a shot at your spelling or the use of a proper word. I was simply saying I don't know what that word means, especially in tthe context you used. I spell like crap and misuse words all the time. I'm not going to smack someone else for wht I do myself.
#gmstrong
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Sorry Daman..but he played poorly in the Cards game..
Yeah, I know,, I even said that,,, didn't you read what I said about if we were judging DA on one game and that game was the Zona game, he'd suck,,, wasn't that clear?
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It shouldn't have come down to that play anyway..
You are right, it should not have come down to the final play,, but sometimes in games, It does... remember the Fumble, Red Right 88.. Blocked Field Goal in Oakland this past year.... All of them were the Final play of the game... So while it shouldn't have come down to the final play, it happens quite often.
My point is, as bad as DA Played that game, he still got us in position to win at the end.. Now that's something lots of QB's we've had around here didn't do.,.. It's a positive, but because we didn't win, it's woe is DA!
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Brady is a hecka lot better than DA...
Yes he is, and again, as I said, it's a example.., nothing more, nothing less.. and when used only as an example, it doesn't disqualify anything...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I see so one "IF" pass should define his game? Am I in some animated world right now
EO,, I respect you very very much,, ,But where did you read anywhere that I said that one "if" pass should define anything? You are reading more into what I'm saying that I said.
I already said, that game, HE SUCKED.. how much clearer can I get..
Let me say it again..... IN THE ZONA GAME,,,, DA SUCKED! Did I make it clear now.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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The Refs rob us on that BUT all we can talk about is how bad a game DA had? That is what SUCKS..
This is what prompted me to respond..
The refs weren't going to call that..
Had the reciever been farther in and pushed out they might have called it..because it has to look like the guy could get his feet inbounds without a forceout.
But I'm not for a QB in essence playing so bad early on then have to resort to heroics to get a victory..it catches up to you as it did DA..
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Had the reciever been farther in and pushed out they might have called it..because it has to look like the guy could get his feet inbounds without a forceout.
I guess it's just a matter of opinion then, but to me, from every angle I saw the replays,, it seemed clear he'd have come down in bounds had he not been forced out..
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But I'm not for a QB in essence playing so bad early on then have to resort to heroics to get a victory..it catches up to you as it did DA..
I agree, neither am I. I mean, we all like the heart pumping action and we do like how a "photo finish" gets us all crazy,, but no, for the most part, I'd prefer to have the game well in hand long before the final play of the game..
But, for whatever reason, if it takes the final play,, like a last second, second chance Field goal that bounces off the goal post support,, I'll take it... I venture you will also
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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All Pro
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Anytime... Finding a proven NFL RB that fits within the Browns O and performs well in the division they are in has not proven to be an easy task... Having to find a stud RB to replace JL is not something I believe the Browns should or need to do this upcoming season... JL fits perfectly... With his style, leadership, work ethic/example and production ... He made a talented, but unproven and not jelled O-Line look very good at times last season. And vice versa... JL didn’t fade late in the season either... He has some good miles left on him... IMO. JL is worth what he is worth... Some serious jing! My choices for the PB RB in the AFC this year were JL and FT... Fred Taylor... But what do I know...  Good RB class this upcoming draft, without much question... Expecting a late first day or second day pick to come in and replace JL is a reach. IMO. Depending on FA and the obvious D upgrade needs and focus we shall see come draft time what the Browns may do... One of the top 3 RB's this year would be a good potential choice... But not a proven entity like JL and at what cost? I too expect the Browns to go BPA in the draft this year. I also expect PS and crew to deal back up in the draft too...  DA is the starter next year going into camp and the season opener... Barring someone making an offer the Browns can't or won't refuse, or because of serious injury or an unforeseen suspension of some type... 10-5 starting QB's don't get unseeded by unproven 2nd year QB's or rarely any incumbents for that matter... I'm for the BQ era to start... But it has to be the right timing and for the right reasons... And from what I see neither of these things are present at this time. Keep in mind I'm not and haven't been a big supporter of DA's. I’m still not even 85% sold on him... I watched him for years @ OSU and watched him throw many picks against Boise State and the PAC 10... I know who he has been and what he has done... Better than most here, IMO. I like the job RAC has done with the Browns so far. LIKE... He hasn’t won enough yet for me to love him. Why he hasn’t won more in understandable. I love his character, his approach, the overall improvement in the team’s performance, his staff choices, his expectations, the attitude of the team and the respect PS, the rest of the organization and the players have for him. I will continue to support and defend him! I would give him a nice raise for the overall job he has done but would not extend his contract at this point in time. That can be discussed in a couple of more years...  Chime in anytime man... Take care, be well, love one another and may peace be with you and yours.
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But, for whatever reason, if it takes the final play,, like a last second, second chance Field goal that bounces off the goal post support,, I'll take it... I venture you will also
I do not want to rely on those things to win games and get to the playoffs..
I want the Browns to win games of course..but they shouldn't need wild finishes all the time..
Win the battles during the games decisively..
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Quote:
The Refs rob us on that BUT all we can talk about is how bad a game DA had? That is what SUCKS..
Just for the sake of curiosity, would that "one pass" have made a "bad outing a good one"?
You see, this is a two edged sword. If we win, people say, "He knows how to win. He's good. HE went 10-5 in his starts."
Which makes this post "especially" interesting to me as to the "opinions" of others.
From what I gather, had we been awarded that TD, it would have caused the difference between a "good performance" from DA rather than "a poor one"?
You see, I believe that you can have one cog in the wheel working "not quite so well" and still win. I think he has played some games in a category you could rate from "fair to poor" in which we STILL won. How else do you explain that "as a QB" DA ranked 28th in accuracy, yet our TEAM went 10-6?
But I believe many simply say "Well, he won didn't he?
No, the team won.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Jesus............so much hogwash. And the ones slinging the most of it are the ones questioning others. Here is the bottom line. DA went 10 and 5. That is the most important stat of all. He threw 19 picks, but was a plus 10 in TD to Int. ratio. That's not bad. He led the team to a near scoring record for the Cleveland Browns. That's in the HISTORY of the franchise. He threw for nearly 3800 yds., which is only behind Brian Sipe. More than Bernie, more than Otto, more than Bill.......and way more than Timid.......who you all defended. His teammates are behind him. He went 7 and 1 at home. When was the last time that happened? Keep bringing up the December stats. The completion percentage. And then you guys have the nerve to criticize PDawg. Get freaking real. You're talking crap and anyone w/an open mind knows it. Not one person on here has proclaimed that DA is a great QB and that we should dump BQ. But you loud-mouths keep insisting he sucks and that we should dump him in favor of a guy who has done NOTHING! Yeah, you are credible. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I understand this thread is mostly about DA now... But while reading some stuff i found this today on yahoo.. Quote:
I was really impressed by the coaching job Romeo Crennel did this year with the Browns, and I think there's great reason for optimism in Cleveland. But if he and his agent think they're getting a lucrative extension based on this year's 10-6 campaign, they may be out of luck. With reports out there that Dolphins director of football operations Bill Parcells wanted to hire him, Crennel had perceived leverage. But with that job having been filled, and two years left on his contract, Crennel will likely have to prove last year's progress was not a one-hit wonder.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ap...o&type=lgns
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I do not want to rely on those things to win games and get to the playoffs..
I want the Browns to win games of course..but they shouldn't need wild finishes all the time..
Win the battles during the games decisively..
Ok, neither do I,, I don't want that either,, but are you saying you wouldn't take a win on a last second hailmary or a last second field goal? I sure as hell would...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Just for the sake of curiosity, would that "one pass" have made a "bad outing a good one"?
No, but it would have been a win.. isn't that good enough.. But no, one pass doesn't make a poor outing suddenly good.. it just makes a poor outing a little more tolerable.. kinda like a spoon full of sugar helping the medicine go down...ya know!
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If we win, people say, "He knows how to win. He's good.
Some might say that.. I didn't..
But I have made the comment that he went 10-5 and that's nothing to sneeze at.
But on more than one occasion, if you bother to read what I write, you will see that I agree that DA has flaws.. you never saw me write that he's a perfect QB.. Not at all..
The difference between me and some others on this board is that I'm just not ready to throw him under a bus and I'm not willing to exaggerate his flaws to prove a point.., neither am I willing to say that his good points are enough to make him Great!
Where I also differ with many is that I don't see him as a finished product. Like you for instance Pit,, anytime it's brought up that he's only started this year, you come back with, "but he's been in the league for 3 years" and of course an argument or at least a discussion ensues. sometimes it gets heated.. No need for that.. we simply have a difference of opinion as to the value one can place on those first two years..
I say they don't have nearly the value that you seem to think that had.. SO be it, I really don't know, nor to I care which of us is correct.. just doesn't matter.
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From what I gather, had we been awarded that TD, it would have caused the difference between a "good performance" from DA rather than "a poor one"?
The only way you got that from what I said is if you twist my words to fit your argument.. I have actually said the exact opposite... And I think I said it CLEARLY....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Sources: Crennel close to two-year extension with Browns
By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com
(Archive)
Updated: January 28, 2008, 8:22 PM ET
The Cleveland Browns and head coach Romeo Crennel are close to finalizing a two-year contract extension through the 2011 season, sources told ESPN.com.
Parameters for the deal were hammered out between general manager Phil Savage and agent Joe Linta during the Senior Bowl all-star game activities in Mobile, Ala., last week. The extension follows a turnaround season in which the Browns posted a 10-6 record and fell just shy of earning an AFC wild-card berth.
Although some fine-tuning of a few details remains, the extension should be completed within days and is believed to be worth about $4 million annually.
Crennel, 60, had two seasons remaining on the original five-year contract he signed when the Browns hired him for his first NFL head coach job in 2005.
In Crennel's first two seasons, the Browns compiled a 10-22 record, with just one divisional victory. Cleveland was 3-3 in the AFC North, and its 10-6 record tied that of division champion Pittsburgh. But the Steelers won the divisional tie-breaker by virtue of defeating the Browns in both meetings.
Fueled by an influx of solid, young talent and a timely decision to switch starting quarterbacks after an opening-game loss to the Steelers, the Browns seem to be on the right path toward achieving sustained success. The defense still needs more quality starters, particularly in the front seven, but the offense, which statistically ranked No. 8 in the league, has plenty of playmakers.
Quarterback Derek Anderson, who replaced Charlie Frye after the opening-game loss, is a player in ascendance, and tight end Kellen Winslow and wide receiver Braylon Edwards provide excellent targets. The offensive line was also upgraded, and first-round choice Joe Thomas quickly emerged as an outstanding left tackle.
A longtime NFL assistant, Crennel has spent much of his 26 years in the league as a defensive coordinator. He earned five Super Bowl rings as an assistant coach.
Senior writer Len Pasquarelli covers the NFL for ESPN.com.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
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Crennel Agrees to Extension
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cleveland Browns head coach Romeo Crennel has agreed to a two-year contract extension through 2011 with the team worth between $3.8-$4.2 million per season a league source told Scout.com. Crennel had two years left on his original five-year deal which was valued at more than $2 million per season. Crennel could make up to $4.2 million in each season of the two-year extension depending on the team's achievement.
Crennel was able to weather the storm of a rocky beginning to the 2007 season to bring the team back to their first winning campaign since 2002.
The team also made some other coaching news recently by extending the contract of offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski for two more seasons (his deal will also expire after 2011) and they also fired defensive coordinator Todd Grantham.
Adam Caplan
scout.com Senior NFL Reporter
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I'm glad for Romeo although I worry about him health-wise and how long he can coach... but it's Lerner's money, doesn't mean a thing to me. I like a coach who has his player's respect but isn't afraid to kick some arse. Romeo seems like a stand up guy, even though sometimes his clock management drives me nuts.  Nothing wrong with this move.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Dawg Talker
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It really doesn't matter...coaches are hired and fired all the time and it doesn't matter how many yrs they got left...
Go Browns!!![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/BrowniePoints/AndersonSnowPic.jpg)
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And in retrospect, it's kinda hard to extend the OC, but not the HC at the same time. Talk about sending the wrong message with silence....
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Nice! Glad to read it's done! So we locked up Chud and RAC. Now tender DA and allow a team to match , then resign Lewis and the AFC North is ours! Muhahahahahahaha!
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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you'll be waiting on the DA part... we can't even give out tenders until Feb. 7th. 2008 NFL Off Season Dates to Remember link January 19 - East-West Shrine Game in Houston, Texas January 20 - AFC & NFC Championship Games January 21-25 - Senior Bowl practices in Mobile, Alabama January 26 - Senior Bowl in Mobile, Alabama February 3 - Super Bowl XLII in Phoenix, Arizona February 7 - Commencement of 15-day designation period for Franchise and Transition PlayersFebruary 10 - AFC-NFC Pro Bowl in Honolulu, Hawaii February 11 - Waiver process begins February 20-26 - NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis, Indiana February 21 - Deadline for teams to designate Franchise and Transition Players February 28 - Deadline for submission of Qualifying Offers by teams to their Restricted Free Agents whose contracts have expired and to whom they desire to retain a Right of First Refulsal/CompensationFebruary 28 - Deadline for teams to submit offer of minimum salary to retain exclusive negotiating righs to their players with fewer than three seasons of free agency credit whose contracts have expired February 29 - Start of Free Agency and Trading period March 17 - Begin Offseason Workout Programs March 30-April 3 - NFL Annual Meeting in Palm Beach, Florida April 25 - Deadline for teams to exercise Right of First Refusal to Restricted Free Agents April 18 - Deadline for signing of Offer Sheets by Restricted Free Agents April 25 - Deadline for old team to exercise Right of First Refusal to Restricted Free Agents April 26-27 - NFL Draft in New York City May 19-21 - NFL Spring Meeting in Atlanta, Georgia June 1 - Deadline for old team to send tender offer to its unsigned Restricted Free Agents or to extend Qualifying offer, whichever is greater, in order to retain rights June 1 - Deadline for old team to send tender offer to its unsigned Restricted Free Agents to retain rights if player is not signed by another team by July 22 June 29 -July 2 - Rookie Symposium in Carlsbad, California July - NFL teams begin Training Camp August 3 - Hall of Fame game in Canton, Ohio August 26 - Roster reduction to 75 players August 30 - Roster reduction to 53 players September 4-8 - NFL Regular Season begins
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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sorry, the 7th is Franchise and Transition only ... I think that means we can't do the RFA's until the 11th when the waiver process begins. Not sure. Either way, it should be one of those two dates, so we've got a little bit of waiting left to do
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quote:
Here is the bottom line.
DA went 10 and 5. That is the most important stat of all.
The Cleveland Browns went 10-6 with a vastly improved and highly invested in OL and a 1300 yard rusher. Of course you claim that "DA did it" when in fact without that rusher and OL improvement, we've already seen what DA looks like.
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He threw 19 picks, but was a plus 10 in TD to Int. ratio. That's not bad.
And I never said he was "bad".
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He threw for nearly 3800 yds., which is only behind Brian Sipe. More than Bernie, more than Otto, more than Bill.......and way more than Timid.......who you all defended.
Wonder how he stacks up with "pass attempts and % of completions"???? You see, Kitna puts up a lot of yards, but with so MANY "attempts" it's not that terribly hard for him.
Since you want to throw "part of the equasion in" why don't you compare his "accuracy and completion %" up against Bernie and Sipe? That wouldn't fit your story so well would it?
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His teammates are behind him.
He went 7 and 1 at home. When was the last time that happened?
Once again, the Cleveland Browns, you remember, the team that signed the #1 OL player on the FA market and drafted their LT #3 overall in the draft? The team who invested in JL as their RB??? THEY went 7-1 at home. DA wasn't out there by himself.
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Keep bringing up the December stats. The completion percentage. And then you guys have the nerve to criticize PDawg. Get freaking real.
You're talking crap and anyone w/an open mind knows it. Not one person on here has proclaimed that DA is a great QB and that we should dump BQ. But you loud-mouths keep insisting he sucks and that we should dump him in favor of a guy who has done NOTHING!
Yeah, you are credible.
Firstly, I've never said anything about "dumping" anyone. Or that "he sucks". Why don't you actually "tell the truth" about what people say for a change Vers? I say "there are weaknesses to his game". Is that your idea of "mud slinging"? Is what I'm saying a lie? Are you saying he DOESN'T have "key weaknesses" to his game"?
Secondly, he DID RANK 28th in the league in accuracy. Not "just for December", but for the entire season. I don't remember Bernie or Sipe EVER ranking that low, do you?
Since when are "the facts of the matter" "mudslinging"? See, you wish to give DA credit for the "entire team effort" on W''s and L's. I break down DA from the aspect of "individual performance of the QB position". Yet it's you who are somehow so "credible"???
LMFAO
(drama queens abound)
What do YOU feel "DA is worth in a contract"? That's what it boils down to. DA will want a long term, big money deal if he can get one.
You have no idea WHAT Phil sees in mind at the QB position "long term". Neither do I. Anyone with an "open mind" understands that. Anyone with an "open mind" realises this situation is a gamble any way you slice it.
And anyone with an "open mind" might realise that Phil didn't start burning up the phones after the Dolphins passed on Quinn, gave up last years second and this years first for a QB he doesn't plan to use for TWO or THREE years!
Yeah, that sounds real "credible" Vers.
Point being, let's see what DA wants compared to what Phil has to offer. I doubt it "matches up" anywhere close to each other.
Then maybe we'll just tender him, keep him for "one year" and he can walk away and we'll get NOTHING out of the deal. Just the way YOU want it Vers.
How much IS "too much" Vers? How much do YOU think "DA is worth" in a contract? Sign him at "any cost"?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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The difference between me and some others on this board is that I'm just not ready to throw him under a bus and I'm not willing to exaggerate his flaws to prove a point.., neither am I willing to say that his good points are enough to make him Great!
What my main point of contention has been all along, is that "these weaknesses" will be a part of evaluating "his value" to this team by Phil. And what his value is to Phil, is what's "key" to all of this.
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Where I also differ with many is that I don't see him as a finished product. Like you for instance Pit,, anytime it's brought up that he's only started this year, you come back with, "but he's been in the league for 3 years" and of course an argument or at least a discussion ensues. sometimes it gets heated.. No need for that.. we simply have a difference of opinion as to the value one can place on those first two years..
He did start three games in his second year. And my point is, yes, he's been in the league for THREE years. And, he's been coached under "RAC's guidance" for two years. And after that time, he "still major accuracy, footwork and touch issues".
That does give me "cause for concern" as to "how much he can improve". I've never said he was a "finished product". But the fact does remain that he has been in the league for three years, coached under RAC for two years, and still has "major issues" in many key areas.
So I do feel I have "cause for concern" in that area. I'm not saying "he won't get better". But I'm also not one who makes the bold prediction he "will get much better" either. Since there's nothing factual to base such a claim upon.
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From what I gather, had we been awarded that TD, it would have caused the difference between a "good performance" from DA rather than "a poor one"?
The only way you got that from what I said is if you twist my words to fit your argument.. I have actually said the exact opposite... And I think I said it CLEARLY....
See that little "?" at the end? That means it was a question asked of you. Not a statement made about you.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 33
Rookie
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Jesus............so much hogwash. And the ones slinging the most of it are the ones questioning others.
Here is the bottom line.
DA went 10 and 5. That is the most important stat of all.
He threw 19 picks, but was a plus 10 in TD to Int. ratio. That's not bad.
He led the team to a near scoring record for the Cleveland Browns. That's in the HISTORY of the franchise.
He threw for nearly 3800 yds., which is only behind Brian Sipe. More than Bernie, more than Otto, more than Bill.......and way more than Timid.......who you all defended.
His teammates are behind him.
He went 7 and 1 at home. When was the last time that happened?
Keep bringing up the December stats. The completion percentage. And then you guys have the nerve to criticize PDawg. Get freaking real.
You're talking crap and anyone w/an open mind knows it. Not one person on here has proclaimed that DA is a great QB and that we should dump BQ. But you loud-mouths keep insisting he sucks and that we should dump him in favor of a guy who has done NOTHING!
Yeah, you are credible.
And you are?.....Talk about hogwash! All that coming from someone that proclaimed Frye was better then Anderson or BQ. Sounds like you're just a BQ hater. You guys kill me
Dawg Gone
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Fair enough Pdawg...never was (really) angry with you btw. Thanks for putting up with my harshness. I hate the deadbate cause of the lasting emotions it leaves with posters.
JMHRespects
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
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hate the deadbate cause of the lasting emotions it leaves with posters.
You said it.
I've been trying to keep it at a distance for the most part. Lord knows I'm about as opinionated and long-winded as they come. But this time around, concerning the deadbate, Vers woke me up by pointing out the lack of respect DA gets from some after helping to give us the best season since our return.
We won 10 games. DA certainly didn't do it all by himself, but he didn't hurt.
Now one could argue, if they wanted, that he stood in the way of us winning eleven games and getting into the playoffs. But he sure didn't hurt our shot at 10 wins. Hell, if he hadn't gone into his Jeckyl and Hyde routine we could have possibly won 13 games out of that schedule. But he did and we didn't.
But 10 games is respectable. The Browns were respectable in '07. (Dear God in heaven how long we've waited for that.) I have to give DA a large part of that credit since he'd been thrust into starting at the most important position on the team. He doesn't get near enough respect for that.
And it's not just here on this board. Wherever there's fans there's the DA debate. I guess that's because many saw his shortcomings and are skeptical of his abilities. I know some think the debate is largely due to a lot of fans wanting to see the unproven first round pick, but those concerns about DA are not without merit, (not everyone is so fickle), and I believe many are looking at that, not at the bench.
Still, we won 10 games and that's not only a testament to DA doing pretty well at his position but also that the team is beginning to show the fruits of their labors. It takes a team effort to win 10 games. We should all be pretty darn happy about that and give ole' DA a healthy pat on the back for his efforts in the outcome.
#gmstrong
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