DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Star Status of Anderson still up in the air.

Quote:

---

Well, it's a silly hypothetical that has no bearing on the current situation, but the answer is an obvious No.

---

Well of course it's hypothetical,, and maybe even silly. But then most of the conversations on here are,, silly that is!

As for the answer being no,, Pit seems to disagree with ya!

heh, well, he's wrong.

What,,,, are you saying that PIT could be wrong,,, NO WAY MAN,,, he's never wrong, Pit is my hero!

Relax Pit,, I'm pulling your leg a little!

Post deleted by Referee2

Quote:

---

Like I said, take it for what it's worth, but I see this as good news either way. Either he is looking great and we keep him, which I would like to do, or he is looking great and it ups the chance of us getting the picks for him.

---

Yup, it's a Win-Win situation for the BROWNS

I don't think anyone would question his arm strength.. he's got the gun, no question.. But the accuracy thing, that surprises me somewhat.

j/c:

Going to try and cover several points on this post.

---Why did we draft BQ if we felt DA was a worthy QB?
Perhaps we didn't know what we had in DA? Perhaps his play surprised the Browns and they now must rethink the situation.


--DA has almost reached his ceiling.
Well, Savage said that DA hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential. You can argue w/Phil on that one. *L*


---Savage thinking that BQ has the "it" factor.
Perhaps he does, but that isn't what I was addressing. I didn't address that because we do NOT know what Savage thinks of BQ right now. The comment I did address is that BQ had the "it" factor because the fans got excited when he came into games. I maintain the coaches could care less about the fans getting excited about a player.


---Quinn being able to do better than DA.
People may believe he can, but we really don't KNOW that at this point in time. Thus, it would make more sense to let the situation play out, rather than move either QB.



---Savage can see the same limitations that certain posters do because he is not biased like some of us who want to keep DA.
LOL..........we don't know if Savage sees the same limitations as you. In fact, from everything that has been reported, Savage likes DA and wants to bring him back. Also, that bias comment is the type of thing that sets off arguments on this board. You know.........the type of arguments that Ref 1 recently warned "us" about. And I won't reciprocate on the bias comment, because I have a feeling I have a lot shorter rope than you do. That happens when you don't have the popular opinion. I don't like it, but I do understand it.

Personally..........I don't think it is biased to want to keep both QBs on the roster and allow them to either win or lose the job. Are certain posters afraid of an open competition? If BQ is really that much better, he will win the job outright.

If the competition is close, BQ will get the job. The Browns do in fact have a big investment in BQ. He'll get the nod if the competition is close. And I really don't have a problem w/that. What I do have a problem with is trading a guy who had a Pro Bowl year for a "maybe."

Allow the situation to play out and let the best man win!

Quote:

---

that bias comment is the type of thing that sets off arguments on this board. You know.........the type of arguments that Ref 1 recently warned "us" about.

---

I read that too and started to respond. I decided not to because I didn't want to get into another arguement. I think comments like that one are meant to bait people. Why else use the . Maybe they need to be warned also.

Quote:

---

Mortensen said that Anderson is throwing the ball extremely accurate and by far the best of any quarterback there.

---

I don't doubt that this is the case. However it is much different throwing a ball in an easy going practice than a football game.

Quote:

---

Keep them both if at all possible. If it would be the financial ruin of the Browns to keep both, then trade one (anderson) and take your chances.

---

This is about as well as I have seen it put. There is no sin in keepong two good QB's....However there is when you put yourself in a financial strain. I think that is simmilar to the approach we are seeing from savage. If DA want to sign for a resable amount of money..great we have two good QB's. If he don't then he will get tendered and we will se where it goes from there.

I know you weren't responding to me,, But

Quote:

---

Personally..........I don't think it is biased to want to keep both QBs on the roster and allow them to either win or lose the job.

---

This is what I've been hoping for all along. I know that by doing this, we may lose out on a terrific player on D in the 1st round of the draft.. I know that is a tough and bitter pill to swallow and I feel it also.

But as has been noted a million times on this board and others, the QB spot is the most important spot on the team.

We have two guys, one that we know can lead the team and the other we think and hope can lead the team. The thing is, the one we think and hope can lead the team appears to have a greater upside.. (remember, I said APPEARS, cause we don't know yet)

Maybe it's just the conservative in me, But I would rather have both guys for at least 1 more year.. Send them to camp, let it play out and let the best man win. But that's just me!

Probably, the one that doesn't win the job here will fetch us some picks in a future draft. Of this I'm relatively certain. It may not be a 1 and 3, but it will be something on the first day.. and when it happens, then we can make the move to get more legit on D.. in the mean time, as much as it kills me, we may have to hope we find a couple of diamonds in the rough on draft day and hope we can get a couple of FAs that help quickly.

Again, JMO!

I was responding to everyone, so yes, I was responding to you. *L*

I think we view the situation in a similar manner. Amazing, huh?


The point you brought up about getting draft picks is a good one. I can see why people want to trade DA for get the pick[s], especially if they believe that BQ is the real deal.

My only issue w/that line of thinking is that we don't know that BQ is the real deal. We also don't know what the draft pick will really provide. We do know that DA is capable of playing at a Pro Bowl level; has a lot of upside; and can lead an offense that scored points at a near-record clip. {Pit, please don't twist that into me saying he was the only reason we scored all those points.]

I also need to mention that Savage was able to change this offense in one year w/out the benefit of trading one of our current players. He drafted Joe. He brought in Lewis and Steinbach in FA, and he had a QB already on the team who was far superior to the one in place.

Who is to say that he can't add a stud defender in round 2? I have also seen other teams have defensive guys who were drafted in rounds 3 and 4 and come in and make significant contributions.

And why can't Savage add another two pieces to the defensive puzzle through FA like he did last year on offense?

I will readily admit that there probably isn't anyone on the roster who can come in and contribute what DA did this year, but I think the overall performance of some of our younger guys can really skyrocket if we put more talent around them. For example, if we put a pass-rusher opposite of Wimbley and solidify the d-line, then I bet Wimbley has a monster year. The upgrades on the d-line would also lead to improved play from our MLBers. And if we get a FS w/instincts, we can bring Jones closer to the LOS, and he can have a year similar to what he did two years ago.

I think we can significantly upgrade the defense w/out taking a gamble at the most important position on the field---the quarterback. Will it be enough of an upgrade to win the Super Bowl next year? Nah, I doubt it. But, we should not be looking at this thing short-term. Long-term is what is important. I would be more than happy if we duplicated last year's record and got into the playoffs next year. I think this team is on the upward path and gambling on the unknown is risky at best.

I still believe the best option is to allow the QB situation to play itself out. Let the best man win---not in the papers; on talk radio shows; and on message boards. On the damn field!

And you know what? I think Savage feels the same way. He was recently quoted--and I am paraphrasing--that they want to prolong the situation as long as possible and that they would like to keep both guys.

Sounds like logical thinking, Mr. Savage. Very logical, indeed.

No link

Quote:

---

I think we view the situation in a similar manner. Amazing, huh?

---

I think if you look really hard, you will find we agree on more thngs than we disagree on....

My guess is that if we sat down at a bar, had a beer, leave the testosterone at home, we'd probably agree on a TON of things...

Quote:

---

I can see why people want to trade DA for get the pick[s], especially if they believe that BQ is the real deal.

---

I'm not sure how many of those that feel that way would actually admit that this is the reason for it.. Optimism about BQ I mean..

Hell, who am I kidding, I'm pretty darn optimistic about BQ also.. I think the kid is the real deal and will be our future.. but for me, it's baseless.. I have nothing that I can say is the single biggest reason I feel that way.. I just feel it. (yeah, I know, in the real world, it's not worth anything to just feel something)

Quote:

---

I also need to mention that Savage was able to change this offense in one year w/out the benefit of trading one of our current players.

---

Ahh yes, but my friend, he did have a 1st round pick to use to get Thomas,, and he had other picks to give to move up to get Quinn...

We don't, barring some kinda trade, have a 1st rounder that can net us a Thomas level guy in the 1st round.. There is the difference..

But I get your point, I suspect you are speaking of getting Stieny and McKinney and resigning Fraley.. and that kinda makes your point valid. Without Stieny and Fraley at least, Thomas may not have looked so darn good...

Now, if we can get the Stieny and the Fraley of the Defensive line in FA this year.. it will go a long way to fixing what ails us on D.... A long way. Maybe in the next draft we can get our Joe Thomas of the D line...

And whose to say that Savage won't make a deal to move our 2009 1st round and maybe a 2nd from this year to move into the 1st this year to snag the stud on D that we all want...

Then when all the dust settles and a QB of the future is finally and completely decided on here, whats to say he doesn't deal the other contender for a 1st and maybe even more in 2009...

Quote:

---

I think we can significantly upgrade the defense w/out taking a gamble at the most important position on the field---the quarterback.

---

Not everyone will agree with that, but I do!

NFL Insider
Posted by Tony Grossi February 09, 2008 18:25PM


What kind of market is there for Derek Anderson?

Three weeks before free agency starts, it's too early to tell. But there wasn't a buzz at the Super Bowl about Anderson's potential availability. Maybe it will pick up in two weeks at the NFL scouting combine.

Anderson's breakout season with the Browns ended with him attending the Pro Bowl. But the early take on his performance in NFL circles dwells more on his 19 interceptions than his 29 touchdown passes.

"He had another 20 interceptions dropped," said one NFL scout, partly exaggerating. "We see those, too."

The Browns say they are trying to negotiate a contract with Anderson to keep him off the restricted free-agent market. Their initial three-year deal did not bowl over Anderson and his agents.

If a new deal can't be worked out by Feb. 28, the Browns will give Anderson a $2.5 million contract tender to ensure first- and third-round draft compensation if another team signs him as a free agent.

The Browns shouldn't expect any team to part with those picks for Anderson.

Remember, the Browns dangled Anderson in trade talks after they drafted Brady Quinn last April. They found more interest in Charlie Frye, which is why they traded him to Seattle for a sixth-round pick.

"You would have to say there's a market for him because of his youth, No. 1," said a scout. "He just finished his third year, so there is some upside there. One problem is there's probably five quarterbacks going to be drafted in the first two rounds. Some teams would rather draft their own."

Quarterbacks change teams every year. Last season, Jeff Garcia moved to Tampa Bay, David Carr to Carolina, Joey Harrington to Atlanta, Daunte Culpepper to Oakland, Trent Green to Miami, Byron Leftwich to Atlanta and Matt Schaub was traded to Houston.

The Schaub example is relevant because he was a restricted free agent with little history, like Anderson. The Falcons gave Schaub the high tender, and then traded him to Houston for two second-round picks and an exchange of No. 1s (a difference of two spots).

"People think more highly of Schaub than [Anderson]," said an NFL team executive.

Another factor is that teams that don't want to mortgage the future for a quarterback will have alternatives. The Jets' Chad Pennington, Buffalo's J.P. Losman, Oakland's Culpepper, Washington's Todd Collins, even possibly Philadelphia's Donovan McNabb, could be available.

So which teams will be shopping for a quarterback?

At least a dozen teams have weak situations at quarterback, but that doesn't mean they are looking to upgrade it.

For instance, Chicago is a good quarterback away from returning to the ranks of Super Bowl contender, but everyone insists that Bears General Manager Jerry Angelo will commit to Kyle Orton and not pursue Anderson.

Minnesota is another team ready to win except for its QB situation. But the Vikings think highly of Tavaris Jackson. Plus, coach Brad Childress' West Coast offense is not the system best suited for Anderson.

Miami? Forget it. New Dolphins czar Bill Parcells is trying to woo back Green to bridge the gap to his future quarterback.

Detroit, with Mike Martz out of the way, wants a closer look at Drew Stanton before investing again in a quarterback.

Atlanta is years away from winning. The Falcons will draft their next quarterback.

Kansas City? They haven't a clue and are expected to continue with Brodie Croyle and Damon Huard.

Carolina? They expect Jake Delhomme back and like what they've seen of Matt Moore.

That would leave two teams that should at least look at the feasibility of pursuing Anderson -- the Jets and Baltimore.

Both teams have offensive coordinators tied to Rob Chudzinski and the offensive system in which Anderson blossomed. Jets coordinator Brian Schottenheimer was Chargers quarterbacks coach when Chudzinski was their tight ends coach. Each learned the offense under Cam Cameron, who now is the Ravens coordinator.

Schottenheimer tried to develop Kellen Clemens last year when Pennington's weak arm couldn't make the throws required of the offense. Clemens was horrible, causing the Jets to rethink their quarterback situation.

As for Baltimore, Cameron knows that Steve McNair's arm strength can't trigger his offense. That means a rowdy Ravens defense anxious to win is left with the likes of Kyle Boller and Troy Smith. Don't think for a minute that a new head coach and coordinator won't want to start fresh with a new quarterback.

Baltimore, of course, is the team that drafted Anderson in the sixth round in 2005, then lost him to the Browns on a waiver claim.

Would the Ravens admit that was a mistake and pursue Anderson as their starter? And would the Browns deal Anderson to a division rival and leave their offense in the hands of the untested Quinn?

Intriguing questions to ponder as the post-Super Bowl season begins.

Quote:

---

Three weeks before free agency starts, it's too early to tell. But there wasn't a buzz at the Super Bowl about Anderson's potential availability.

---

Try reconciling that with what Chris Mortenson said about DA at the Pro Bowl.. That people were (I'm paraphrasing) ohhing and awwing at his arm strength.

Which is the truth... Grossi or Mortenson...

Look at some of Grossis comments about where Anderson could fit in... Some of it is pretty sound thinking, some, such as Carolina and Atlanta, may not be so sound.

Then I asked myself,, who in some of these markets is gonna talk to Grossi.. I mean is someone in Atlanta, Carolina, Chicago, Minne, NYC, Miami, KC or Baltimore gonna talk to Grossi and tell him, a Cleveland Reporter, the truth about plans they may or may not have for anderson?

I don't know, but it makes me wonder!

You know..........I would hate to call Tony Grossi a liar, but a lot of what he says in this article is hard for me to believe. I've been hearing stories that were quite the opposite of what Grossi is saying.


Of course, this could be good news. Perhaps Grossi knows that the Browns intend to keep DA and Grossi's new angle will be that no one wanted him. *L*

Quote:

---

I've been hearing stories that were quite the opposite of what Grossi is saying.

---

Opposite of what? He said alot...

Spill it Chief...

Opposite of his claim about there not being a "buzz" about DA at the Pro Bowl and a lack of possible suitors. What was so hard to figure out?

U said "Hearing Stories"...

What Stories???

I wanna "Hear Stories" about the Browns being ready to climb all over Lance Briggs come midnight the 2nd of March...

Briggs ILB
Kelly DE
Sopoaga NT

Huh?

Well, Grossi said there was no buzz at the Super Bowl, not the Pro Bowl. I don't find that hard to believe at all.

Frankly, the camp that thinks DA is crap is wrong as is the camp that thinks he walks on water. He is somewhere in between, IMHO.

The question really is....Is he better than Quinn? Pure and simple.

Perhaps what DnD was questioning is the way you put it.. as if you had some major inside info.. I knew what you meant, but perhaps DnD thought there was more to it..

Just my take on it however.., I could be wrong!

Myself, I was wondering how two journalists, Mortenson and Grossi, came up with completely different takes on the subject.. Mortenson says there is plenty of interest and Grossi says there isn't..

Who has it right!

Quote:

---

Frankly, the camp that thinks DA is crap is wrong as is the camp that thinks he walks on water. He is somewhere in between, IMHO.

---

Not being a wise-ass, but who are the members of the camp that thinks he walks on water?

I keep hearing stuff like that, but I really haven't seen anyone who says he is GREAT, never-mind possessing the ability to walk on water. Heck, I am probably his most vocal defender and I am not totally sold on the guy. I sure don't think he can walk on water. I don't even think he is great. I think he played well this year and had some flaws. I think he has some upside, but I am certainly not ready to pronounce him as the second-coming.

Quote:

---

The question really is....Is he better than Quinn? Pure and simple.

---

I agree. And that has been my point. We really don't know yet. That is why I agree w/Savage when he said that he would like to prolong the decision as long as possible.

Hint: Does ESPN ever blow things out of proportion?

Hint: Does Tony Grossi ever make stuff up? Do the names of Jim Tressel and Bill Cowher ring a bell?

Quote:

---

just going out on a limb here- I would say the NFC east and AFC south is a "bit" stronger then the NFC west and the AFC east. Sure, things can change once the season starts but logic would say next year will be a tougher schedule

---

Logically, that sounds right, but what I think Arch is saying is that we don't know from year to year who's gonna rise and who's gonna fall.. On paper, our 08 schedule looks a lot tougher than our 07 schedule.

But who really knows? the answer,,, NOBODY!

As I recall, and I could be wrong, I don't believe Grossi ever said Tressel or Cowher were coming here. I believe he suggested that they'd be good choices. Hardly a lie. More of an opinion, I'd say.

ESPN, on the other hand, can turn a fart into a tsunami. And then have a special wondering how that happened.

Quote:

---

I agree. And that has been my point. We really don't know yet. That is why I agree w/Savage when he said that he would like to prolong the decision as long as possible.

---

Savage is doing exactly what he should be doing...He's got this covered in case someone does offer Anderson a longer term contract and he leaves...

Savage will address the media and say something to the sort of "We just didn't feel comfortable committing that much to a QB who we weren't sure of 100%...It's good for the Anderson camp and good for us because of the compensation we received...And BTW...Quinn's the Starting QB going into OTA's..."...

Otto...........he wrote those articles in a very similar fashion as he wrote this last one about DA.

In terms of credibility, it's not even close between Grossi and Mort. Mort is the most respected reporter in the business. Grossi is a manipulator and rumor starter.

Are you saying that there is NO WAY that Savage wants to keep DA, and all of his talk is posturing?

Quote:

---

Correctomundo...

Mortenson???...Show me this cause I missed this one...

---

I wish I could, I only heard it on ESPN TV the other day.. I'm not sure it's in print. It was part of his conversation from the Pro Bowl... if it's in print, I haven't seen it.

But, if it helps, there are a host of references to his comments by a host of posters on this thread and other threads...

Given that so many of us heard it, do you think you can just trust us that it's what he said?

I mean, really, the reality of this is that what Mortenson says and what Grossi says doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things,, I and I think to an extent, Vers, is just wondering who is telling the truth and who is just making stuff up?

I don't know the answer...

Quote:

---

Hint: Does ESPN ever blow things out of proportion?

---

Virtually everyday But then, so does Grossi,, which is why I don't really know who to believe..

Ooohing and aaaahing over arm strength means nothing if you're throwing to defenders or blades of grass.

Quote:

---

Anderson's breakout season with the Browns ended with him attending the Pro Bowl. But the early take on his performance in NFL circles dwells more on his 19 interceptions than his 29 touchdown passes.

"He had another 20 interceptions dropped," said one NFL scout, partly exaggerating. "We see those, too."

---

At least someone outside of our fanbase and organization sees what I've been saying.

I wish they didn't, though. It makes it tougher to deal him. You can have all the arm strength in the world, but you have to have the smarts, the poise and the accuracy to go along with it. While he makes some very impressive throws, he also makes some very unimpressive ones. That's what hasn't quite sold me. He's got some great ability, but is lacking in other areas which causes him to be inconsistent.

Give me a guy who can be consistent. Protect the ball, move the chains, and get it done.

Brett Favre is arguably the best QB of his time. He's a gunslinger. He's made some flat out amazing throws and plays in his career.

He's got just one Superbowl ring.

So does Trent Dilfer.

If the supporting cast is strong, it makes the main character and movie better. You know what I'm saying?

If we can better our team on defense by moving someone (DA), I'm all for it. I'm not kicking him to the curb. He's helped this team grow, he's a starter in this league on many teams. But IMO Quinn will play consistent ball and help our team just as well. Anderson can stay and compete if there's no moving him. But if we can get something for him and improve our whole team, I'll take my shot with Quinn. I've liked what I've seen.

JMHO.

Quote:

---

As I recall, and I could be wrong, I don't believe Grossi ever said Tressel or Cowher were coming here. I believe he suggested that they'd be good choices. Hardly a lie. More of an opinion, I'd say.

---

I don't know where you live Otto, so it could be that you can't get local Cleveland TV stations.. But on The Point After TV show at the end of the 2006 year, Grossi predicted that Cowher would be the coach in 2007.

He repeated that comment in writing just after that in the PD.. I can't find the article,, But he did...

ESPN is no better, it's not that any of them actually lie.. it's that they are blustery, testosterone filled blowhards that like to hear themselves talk..

Most of the time, it's a bunch of bull they cook up in thier tiny little heads... in hopes of jolting the listener and readers....

But, that's JMO!

Quote:

---

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anderson's breakout season with the Browns ended with him attending the Pro Bowl. But the early take on his performance in NFL circles dwells more on his 19 interceptions than his 29 touchdown passes.

"He had another 20 interceptions dropped," said one NFL scout, partly exaggerating. "We see those, too."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




At least someone outside of our fanbase and organization sees what I've been saying.

---

DP17,, please, you are quoting Grossi who is quoting an UNNAMED NFL Scout..

Maybe not in yours, but in my mind, the entire Grossi article should be called into question. The man just makes stuff up as he goes along.

Remember, this is the same idiot that said that Cowher would be our HC for the 2007 season....

Feel free to trust him if you want, I don't.. But on the other hand, I don't exactly think Mortenson is all that trustworty either..

But that's just me, I distrust virtually all media types..