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"...I have a hunch, though, that deepsouth is not opposed to the death penalty, to the iraq war, or to killing someone in self defense. All things Jesus was vehemently against. "
Our legal system is not based, as you know, on what Jesus is or is not against.
Our legal system allows for self defense killings when non avoidable and unavoidable collateral killings during war...it allows for most pregnancy terminations resulting in the immediate death of the fetus---but not all.
Post edited due to masked profanity
Last edited by Referee 3; 02/08/08 09:22 AM.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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I know. I'm one of them. I just use that religious example because in my experience, the majority of people arguing that abortion is wrong base it on a religious morality, the bible, or at the least claim to be good christians.
My honest opinion about abortion? I think it's a waste of time to try to argue whether or not it's murder, whether a fetus is a human being, all that. We all die, it's just a question of when. Do your duty to those you love and to yourself, and let other people take care of themselves and make their own decisions. The world would be a much better place, in my opinion, if we stopped judging others so much and cleaned our own houses instead.
Abortion is awful, if you've ever gone through it or made that decision. I've been a part of two of them. The first one, was the right decision, definitely. The second one wasn't, and I really regret it. Both of them were very painful for everyone involved. I feel a loss, I wonder what the child would have been, and if what I did was "wrong." I hope to be a father one day, and if I have a choice I'll never be a part of another abortion again, because I'm in a place in my life where I can care for a child and provide a loving and healthy home. I refuse, however, to judge someone else's decision, and I frankly don't care whether we call it "murder" or not. It's an important part of our society, it has had both a positive and negative impact on the lives of many, and I'm glad it's legal.
Although there were 12 minutes from the time you posted this until the time posted what I did - (I was spending a bit of time replying) I want you to know my reply to you was not with your latest post having been read.
My now ex, got pregnant at 18. We were not married. (first sin, huh?) While abortion was something she considered, I did not consider it an option - based on my upbringing and my religion.
I'd love for you to meet my now 19 year old son. Straight A's in high school, deans list all 3 semesters he's been in college. Nursing - at Capital U. I'd love for you to hear him talk about abortion. I'd love for you to meet him and lay eyes on this 19 yr. old kid whose mom wanted one.
I'd love for you to have a chat with him. He realizes that he was close to "being thrown out with the trash". He doesn't consider himself trash. By the way, things didn't work out with his mom and I. Got divorced when he was 3.
I, and he, went through a lot of hell dealing with things. And I don't regret it one bit. (his mom now has a total of 5 kids by 3 different fathers and she is now living with a man 25 yrs. older than her - but she "loves" this guy - although she's slept around while living with him..........hmmmmm)
My son knows all of this. He and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of things, which I'm finding out is normal for a parent/child relationship at his age.
Abortion as a form of birth control is flat out wrong. You, or anyone, can attribute my stance to religion if you want. I base it on my life.
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We don't try, but yes, it does happen.
I see the soldiers as innocents. And before you say it, a lot of them don't have the choice to be doing what they are doing. And so what if we don't try? Wars kill innocents. We know it. So we're guilty of that if we go to war.
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No, I think YOU made my point.
I have no idea what that means.
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I will say this: If you are okay with abortions as a form of birth control - and you appear to be - then I would guess you are also okay with euthenasia as a form of lowering medical bills as well. In abortion for birth control, people that are for it argue "better than having those kids end up in an orphanage", so by the same token, when someone is diagnosed with a disease, wouldn't it be better to just kill them as soon as they get the diagnoses? That's where your line of thinking leads to.
I seriously believe those are two very different issues, but if you must - I don't think that it is "necessarily" wrong to have euthanasia. But the big difference is your next point:
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If someone were standing over you with a gun to your head, would your response be "go ahead, shoot me - if God wants me to live, he'll save me"? I think not. You would do what you could to survive. Unborn babies do not have that option, as they cannot struggle/fight to survive. But you seem to be okay with that. If you are, then I'm sure, when someone is about to kill you, you'll just lay back and take what comes, right?
You see, I can do something about that. Unborn babies, as you say, cannot struggle/fight or even choose to survive. So they're out of luck. Why do you, or anyone else, get designated as their grand protector? The job of protecting your child belongs to the parents. The ONLY person who can truly protect an unborn child is the mother. If you can beam that thing out of there without assaulting the mother and you can keep it alive, it's all yours.
Unborn babies are, technically speaking, parasites. If we're to look at it legally, they are "assaulting" the mother. As a form of self defense, she has it removed, they way you can surgically remove any other parasite. If the baby doesn't like it, they can go live somewhere else. If they can't survive outside the womb, well, then they die.
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God will, you are correct about that.
There you go again, thinking you know what God is going to do and how he is going to judge and whether he will punish. God will do what He will, and he won't consult you or me. For all you know, he WANTS people to get abortions. You have no evidence to the contrary.
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None of us are free of sin. We are, though, able to make choices. Babies in the womb are not free to make choices.
So babies don't have choice but people do. Which means they don't choose to live. They don't have a feeling about it one way or the other. I completely agree. For all we know, they agree with good old Mom.
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I have no doubt that babies "aborted" go to heaven. I have doubts about many others, but I am not the one to judge.
You are not the one to judge, but yet you have "no doubts" that aborted babies go to heaven. Sounds like you don't really believe that God is the one who does the judging. Maybe he sends some of the aborted babies straight to hell. Right? we're not the ones to judge, after all.
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Your tone has taken on a "my way or the highway" current. If you don't believe, that's fine. You are able to make that choice. But again, if abortion as a form of birth control is fine with you, (i.e. "having a baby is just too inconvient for me right now"), then you should expect the same treatment when you are diagnosed with a disease. Society may say "off him now, so as to save ourselves the inconvenience of dealing with him".
Actually, what i'm saying is that no one else should have the right to decide what we do with our own bodies. So the government can't kill unborn babies if they want, and they can't kill terminally ill if they want, and they can't stop me from killing myself if I want, and they can't stop me from sticking a coat hanger up myself or having surgery done. I think you are the one who believes other people can interfere with what we do with our bodies, not me.
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"...I have a hunch, though, that deepsouth is not opposed to the death penalty, to the iraq war, or to killing someone in self defense. All things Jesus was vehemently against. "
Our legal system is not based, as you know, on what Jesus is or is not against.
Our legal system allows for self defense killings when non avoidable and unavoidable collateral killings during war...it allows for most pregnancy terminations resulting in the immediate death of the fetus---but not all.
Just for sshit and giggles would you prefer to stand at Judgment Day explaining a self defense killing or a nonmedically necessary abotion resulting in the immediate death of the fetus?
On Judgment day I'm going to ask God to send me straight to hell, because I didn't believe in him on earth. I just tried to be a good person, be kind and loving. If He has a problem with that, then send me to hell.
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Abortion as a form of birth control is flat out wrong. You, or anyone, can attribute my stance to religion if you want. I base it on my life.
I was with you until that. Since your stance is based on your life, then what you should have said is this: "FOR ME, abortion as a form of birth control is flat out wrong."
My girlfriend getting that abortion way back when was the right decision. I have zero doubts about that. And you know, just because his mom wanted an abortion back then, doesn't mean she isn't glad to have the son she does.
There are billions and billions of potential babies that never happen because the sperm don't make it to the egg. If all of them were alive right now, there wouldn't be room on earth.
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There are billions and billions of potential babies that never happen because the sperm don't make it to the egg. If all of them were alive right now, there wouldn't be room on earth.
That's a natural, biological process. Abortion isn't.
Wise words spoken by sages
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We don't try, but yes, it does happen.
I see the soldiers as innocents. And before you say it, a lot of them don't have the choice to be doing what they are doing. And so what if we don't try? Wars kill innocents. We know it. So we're guilty of that if we go to war.
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No, I think YOU made my point.
I have no idea what that means.
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I will say this: If you are okay with abortions as a form of birth control - and you appear to be - then I would guess you are also okay with euthenasia as a form of lowering medical bills as well. In abortion for birth control, people that are for it argue "better than having those kids end up in an orphanage", so by the same token, when someone is diagnosed with a disease, wouldn't it be better to just kill them as soon as they get the diagnoses? That's where your line of thinking leads to.
I seriously believe those are two very different issues, but if you must - I don't think that it is "necessarily" wrong to have euthanasia. But the big difference is your next point:
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If someone were standing over you with a gun to your head, would your response be "go ahead, shoot me - if God wants me to live, he'll save me"? I think not. You would do what you could to survive. Unborn babies do not have that option, as they cannot struggle/fight to survive. But you seem to be okay with that. If you are, then I'm sure, when someone is about to kill you, you'll just lay back and take what comes, right?
You see, I can do something about that. Unborn babies, as you say, cannot struggle/fight or even choose to survive. So they're out of luck. Why do you, or anyone else, get designated as their grand protector? The job of protecting your child belongs to the parents. The ONLY person who can truly protect an unborn child is the mother. If you can beam that thing out of there without assaulting the mother and you can keep it alive, it's all yours.
Unborn babies are, technically speaking, parasites. If we're to look at it legally, they are "assaulting" the mother. As a form of self defense, she has it removed, they way you can surgically remove any other parasite. If the baby doesn't like it, they can go live somewhere else. If they can't survive outside the womb, well, then they die.
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God will, you are correct about that.
There you go again, thinking you know what God is going to do and how he is going to judge and whether he will punish. God will do what He will, and he won't consult you or me. For all you know, he WANTS people to get abortions. You have no evidence to the contrary.
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None of us are free of sin. We are, though, able to make choices. Babies in the womb are not free to make choices.
So babies don't have choice but people do. Which means they don't choose to live. They don't have a feeling about it one way or the other. I completely agree. For all we know, they agree with good old Mom.
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I have no doubt that babies "aborted" go to heaven. I have doubts about many others, but I am not the one to judge.
You are not the one to judge, but yet you have "no doubts" that aborted babies go to heaven. Sounds like you don't really believe that God is the one who does the judging. Maybe he sends some of the aborted babies straight to hell. Right? we're not the ones to judge, after all.
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Your tone has taken on a "my way or the highway" current. If you don't believe, that's fine. You are able to make that choice. But again, if abortion as a form of birth control is fine with you, (i.e. "having a baby is just too inconvient for me right now"), then you should expect the same treatment when you are diagnosed with a disease. Society may say "off him now, so as to save ourselves the inconvenience of dealing with him".
Actually, what i'm saying is that no one else should have the right to decide what we do with our own bodies. So the government can't kill unborn babies if they want, and they can't kill terminally ill if they want, and they can't stop me from killing myself if I want, and they can't stop me from sticking a coat hanger up myself or having surgery done. I think you are the one who believes other people can interfere with what we do with our bodies, not me.
I feel for you. You are obviously trying to justify. That's natural.
The debate here was not intended to be what it has become. You go on feeling how you feel, I'll go on feeling how I feel.
However: just as a smoking ban has become a food ban, don't be surprised if allowing abortion for convenience becomes allowing/mandating killing people diagnosed with a life threatening disease. After all, not spending the money to treat a person with a life threatening disease would without a doubt save the population money and inconvenience, wouldn't it? 
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DNA! For one you have NO idea how much i am against abortion. You never will!!!! Especially not knowing me.  Secound.....There is absolutely NO valid arguments for abortion!!!! PERIOD!!!!  and yes i do know sarcasm.  Sorry Jobe 
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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don't be surprised if allowing abortion for convenience becomes allowing/mandating killing people diagnosed with a life threatening disease.
If I have a fatal illness I hope someone kills me.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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don't be surprised if allowing abortion for convenience becomes allowing/mandating killing people diagnosed with a life threatening disease.
If I have a fatal illness I hope someone kills me.
I'm with you on that. Maybe not as soon as I find out, but if it ever gets to the point where I can no longer function by myself and am living in a considerable amount of pain, take me out.
If they (doctors) can put me down peacefully, then I'll definitely let them. I saw how my great grandfather was living towards to end of his life, and I don't want to end up like that. At that point my brother and I made a pact. If either of us get to that point, smother them with a pillow.
Wise words spoken by sages
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Every war is provoked by both sides. If you don't resist, there is no war. Killing is killing GM, nice try.
Not if it was in self defense.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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So a woman that may lose her life if she doesn't terminate her pregnancy isn't acting in self defense?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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I never said there should not be an exception for the life of the mother. If there is a good chance she would not survive the birth, then IMO there should be an exception to allow the abortion.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Great. I assume you have already documented your wishes to be put to death in your living will, right? If not, now is the time to do it. Oh, but wait - we weren't talking about a conscientous decision to end ones life were we? We were talking about a mothers right to end someone else's life. And since you agree with a mothers right to end a humans life - a human than needed his or her mom for a few more weeks - but since you are okay with ending that life, than surely you will be okay with someone else saying "look, you aren't going to make it more than a year, so we're going to kill you now. Hold on while we drill your brain out of your head. It might hurt at first, but we'll kill you shortly. And uh, no, you have no say in it. After all, it's for the good of the population." Yeah, you'd go along with that - you too, Michelle. But, seeing as how you both have stated your wishes here, please, put them in writing in your living will. Put in "as soon as I am diagnosed with a terminal disease, I wish that I be killed. That is my choice - in order to save someone else the inconvenience of taking care of me". After all, that IS what you are propagating with your stance on abortion. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Put it in your will......."kill me as soon as I am diagnosed".
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Every war is provoked by both sides. If you don't resist, there is no war. Killing is killing GM, nice try.
Not if it was in self defense.
So people live through it if you kill in self defense? The person is dead whether in self defense or not. You're talking about justifying killing. It's still killing.
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Yeah, you'd go along with that - you too, Michelle.
You are reading way too much into a few words of mine, Arch. Have you even read my feelings on abortion?
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But, seeing as how you both have stated your wishes here, please, put them in writing in your living will.
I will. I will also made it known that I want Hospice at the end. They kept my Father out of pain a few months ago...and I want the same. It was peaceful.
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Put in "as soon as I am diagnosed with a terminal disease, I wish that I be killed. That is my choice - in order to save someone else the inconvenience of taking care of me".
Nobody said that...I think you're reaching with this one.
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After all, that IS what you are propagating with your stance on abortion.
What exactly is my stance on abortion, Arch?
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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There are billions and billions of potential babies that never happen because the sperm don't make it to the egg. If all of them were alive right now, there wouldn't be room on earth.
That's a natural, biological process. Abortion isn't.
Condoms aren't a part of a natural biological process. Pulling out isn't either. Waiting until you are married to have sex isn't a biological process either. Heart surgery isn't a biological process either. Neither is using cars, the internet, telephones, guns, etc etc etc. What's the point?
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[
However: just as a smoking ban has become a food ban, don't be surprised if allowing abortion for convenience becomes allowing/mandating killing people diagnosed with a life threatening disease.
There is a food ban? Where? We can still eat here in California.
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I never said there should not be an exception for the life of the mother. If there is a good chance she would not survive the birth, then IMO there should be an exception to allow the abortion.
Who gets to define what "good chance" means?
And why an exception? Just because her life is in danger, doesn't mean it still isn't murder. If I'm going hungry because I can't afford to feed all my children, can I kill one of them to save my life? Either it's murder or it isn't.
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Great. I assume you have already documented your wishes to be put to death in your living will, right? If not, now is the time to do it.
Oh, but wait - we weren't talking about a conscientous decision to end ones life were we? We were talking about a mothers right to end someone else's life.
And since you agree with a mothers right to end a humans life - a human than needed his or her mom for a few more weeks - but since you are okay with ending that life, than surely you will be okay with someone else saying "look, you aren't going to make it more than a year, so we're going to kill you now. Hold on while we drill your brain out of your head. It might hurt at first, but we'll kill you shortly. And uh, no, you have no say in it. After all, it's for the good of the population."
Yeah, you'd go along with that - you too, Michelle.
But, seeing as how you both have stated your wishes here, please, put them in writing in your living will. Put in "as soon as I am diagnosed with a terminal disease, I wish that I be killed. That is my choice - in order to save someone else the inconvenience of taking care of me".
After all, that IS what you are propagating with your stance on abortion. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Put it in your will......."kill me as soon as I am diagnosed".
We're not talking about a mother's right to end someone else's life, we're talking about her right to end her unborn baby's life. Her unborn baby hasn't stated its wishes to live or not, which is not the situation with someone making a living will or getting diagnosed with a disease.
And it doesn't hurt society to keep these people alive. I dont' know why you think that. What is expensive is there being old people who collect social security or use medicare. That doesn't mean they are dying or have been diagnosed with terminal illnesses.
And who is arguing for abortion for the good of society, or to save money? It's about the mother's right to her body versus a noncitizen, nonperson, unbirthed baby's uncommunicated right to live. Kind of like a killing a chicken. Not a citizen, not a person, not communicated whether they want to live or not. Actually, they probably communicate more about wanting to live than a fetus.
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Great. I assume you have already documented your wishes to be put to death in your living will, right? If not, now is the time to do it.
Oh, but wait - we weren't talking about a conscientous decision to end ones life were we? We were talking about a mothers right to end someone else's life.
And since you agree with a mothers right to end a humans life - a human than needed his or her mom for a few more weeks - but since you are okay with ending that life, than surely you will be okay with someone else saying "look, you aren't going to make it more than a year, so we're going to kill you now. Hold on while we drill your brain out of your head. It might hurt at first, but we'll kill you shortly. And uh, no, you have no say in it. After all, it's for the good of the population."
Yeah, you'd go along with that - you too, Michelle.
But, seeing as how you both have stated your wishes here, please, put them in writing in your living will. Put in "as soon as I am diagnosed with a terminal disease, I wish that I be killed. That is my choice - in order to save someone else the inconvenience of taking care of me".
After all, that IS what you are propagating with your stance on abortion. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Put it in your will......."kill me as soon as I am diagnosed".
We're not talking about a mother's right to end someone else's life, we're talking about her right to end her unborn baby's life. Her unborn baby hasn't stated its wishes to live or not, which is not the situation with someone making a living will or getting diagnosed with a disease.
And it doesn't hurt society to keep these people alive. I dont' know why you think that. What is expensive is there being old people who collect social security or use medicare. That doesn't mean they are dying or have been diagnosed with terminal illnesses.
And who is arguing for abortion for the good of society, or to save money? It's about the mother's right to her body versus a noncitizen, nonperson, unbirthed baby's uncommunicated right to live. Kind of like a killing a chicken. Not a citizen, not a person, not communicated whether they want to live or not. Actually, they probably communicate more about wanting to live than a fetus.
Go ahead and have your say. I'm done with you.
Your thoughts are pathetic. Some day..............
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And Michelle, I do not know your stance on abortion......it just seemed to me you were agreeing with those that favored it.
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I don't "favor" abortion, Arch...far from it. I wish nobody ever felt the need to have one. That being said, I also don't believe it's my right to tell another living being what to do with their body. I wish there were a GOOD answer to this issue, but there really isn't. I don't want to see death (fetus or mother with a coat hanger) for anyone. I don't have the answers, but if people would take the emotion spent on debating abortion and put it in to thinking of possible solutions, or options, maybe something different could be done.
It's sad no matter how you look at it.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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Your thoughts are pathetic. Some day..............
I won't take offense. I know you're just frustrated at being wrong. I forgive you.
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JOB... Quote:
Condoms aren't a part of a natural biological process. Pulling out isn't either. Waiting until you are married to have sex isn't a biological process either. Heart surgery isn't a biological process either. Neither is using cars, the internet, telephones, guns, etc etc etc. What's the point?
what's funny to me about your comments is that abortion IS actually a biological process...i don't have the numbers in front of me, but a significant % of fertilized eggs (the step which the strictest pro-lifer believes to be a human life) are aborted naturally...although not fully understood, likely due to various genetic causes...
if i were to blaspheme for a moment, i might say that God aborts those fetuses b/c He feels circumstances are not right for the life that every human deserves to have...of course, it would have to be blasphemy, b/c after all, that would make 'unnatural abortion' pretty much indistinguishable from the natural kind...
DEEPSOUTH...and general comment to the entrenched, on either side...
what's the point in posting on this sort of thread if you're unwilling to keep an open mind to others' views?...if you want to proselytize your opinions, use a blog...
Browns fans are born with it...
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Your thoughts are pathetic. Some day..............
I won't take offense. I know you're just frustrated at being wrong. I forgive you.
 I don't agree with you but I have to give you credit for the best response I've read. 
#gmstrong
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JOB...
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Condoms aren't a part of a natural biological process. Pulling out isn't either. Waiting until you are married to have sex isn't a biological process either. Heart surgery isn't a biological process either. Neither is using cars, the internet, telephones, guns, etc etc etc. What's the point?
what's funny to me about your comments is that abortion IS actually a biological process...i don't have the numbers in front of me, but a significant % of fertilized eggs (the step which the strictest pro-lifer believes to be a human life) are aborted naturally...although not fully understood, likely due to various genetic causes...
if i were to blaspheme for a moment, i might say that God aborts those fetuses b/c He feels circumstances are not right for the life that every human deserves to have...of course, it would have to be blasphemy, b/c after all, that would make 'unnatural abortion' pretty much indistinguishable from the natural kind...
DEEPSOUTH...and general comment to the entrenched, on either side...
what's the point in posting on this sort of thread if you're unwilling to keep an open mind to others' views?...if you want to proselytize your opinions, use a blog...
Good points.
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Oh, but wait - we weren't talking about a conscientous decision to end ones life were we? We were talking about a mothers right to end someone else's life.
Actually, we were. Someone brought up euthanasia, Michelle made a comment about it, and I responded to it. It had nothing to do with mine, or anybody else's mothers right to end a life.
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And since you agree with a mothers right to end a humans life - a human than needed his or her mom for a few more weeks - but since you are okay with ending that life, than surely you will be okay with someone else saying "look, you aren't going to make it more than a year, so we're going to kill you now.
Alright, I know your all worked up about the topic because some don't share your views, but I never said anything about supporting abortion or it being a mothers right to kill. Unlike some, I am open to hearing both sides of the story and agree with certain aspects of both. But don't assume my views.
This is my favorite part of your post though..
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Put in "as soon as I am diagnosed with a terminal disease, I wish that I be killed. That is my choice - in order to save someone else the inconvenience of taking care of me".
Put it in your will......."kill me as soon as I am diagnosed".
Are you kidding me? My post said nothing nor insinuated that I wanted to be killed as soon as I was diagnosed. I believe I said something along the lines of..
"Maybe not as soon as I find out, but if it ever gets to the point where I can no longer function by myself and am living in a considerable amount of pain, take me out."
I fail to see where I mentioned anything about killing me as soon as I was diagnosed in order to save someone else from the inconvenience. You are seriously twisting my words a little too much, man. I don't care what your views are, but don't make stuff up about me or things I said.
No need for personal insults either. Jobenincasa is simply making points and pointing out flaws in your argument. That's how you have a decent debate, not by insulting.
Wise words spoken by sages
From SkyTel to BlackBerry pagers
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Just Clicking...
Wouldn't it just be easier for everyone to use common sense? If you don't want to have a baby, you have pills as a birth control, condoms, diaphragms (spelling?), abstinence, etc. Maybe you could just not spread your legs if you don't want to have a baby. Don't wait until you have something kicking in the stomach to end the baby's life due to its "inconvenience" and just overall seflishness. That would be the best for people who don't feel it necessary or the right time to have a baby AND for those who are so morally opposed to it and view it as what should be a crime? Sound like a fair compromise? Everyone uses their heads and its solved....
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
Formerly 4yikes2yoshi0
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Abortion is a complicated issue, and I don't think anyone has teh right answer. So with that said, its everyone's own decision on whether they believe it is right or wrong-----but wherever you stand, that your stance---thats what you believe.
Its up to everyone to figure out there own position on this controversial topic. And once you know where you stand, then you're set. Pushing your beliefs on others isn't right.
Neither side will ever agree on who is right---and ther's no way to prove which side is right. So everyone has to just go with their gut and believe whatever it is that they feel is just---but calling an opinion right or wrong-----when it comes to this is just ridiculous.
With abortion, there are no absolute rights or wrongs, there are just some ideas that we subscribe too, and those ideas are deeply personal. So that is it, all there is is your opinion.
You can't tell others how to think on this issue without seeming like an buffoon.
I wish to wash my Irish wristwatch......
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"...Actually, what i'm saying is that no one else should have the right to decide what we do with our own bodies. "
Well...not exactly. There are plenty of laws against personal activities in America. Think about the drug possession/use laws...prostitution...nudity prohibitions...
This thread has finally gone off the tracks and into the realm of the "You Suck
Abortion" thread. If the government allows it...put it out of it's misery.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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Legend
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I've always said...find me someone arguing pro-life who also argues against any kind of killing - war, executions, etc. - and, despite my difference of opinion, logically I will not be able to argue with them.
Finally a pro choice representative who admits abortion is killing...thanks
I don't think the debate's about whether or not something is being killed. It's more about what is being killed.
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And somewhere out there that greatest of all great parser of words,Bill Clinton, is smiling as he recalls his line about what the definition of the word
is- "is"!
Phil...the real debate is about whether the aborted fetus must be a dead fetus. Some of us would rather have a living fetus after the termination of the pregnancy if possible while others.....
would prefer a dead fetus which will never be the source of legal claims,child support issues and other parental responsibilities. And this choice is one of EXPEDIENCE AND CONVENIENCE, rather than of medical NECESSITY!
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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J/C
This is a very emotional topic for obvious reasons. I hate abortion. I hate that someone would terminate their own pregnancy. I can't understand that mindset, I never will.
The other side of it is what some on here have talked about. The issues that occur when something like this is deemed illegal are something that HAS to be addressed. I think a lot of pro life folks get a bad rap because they seemingly just wash their hands to what happens after that precious baby is born when irresponsible people either take matters into their own hands at that point or birth and subject the children to abuse as an unwanted child (many of these people, for whatever reason, will not give up the child for adoption to a suitable home). These people, for the most part, are already irresponsible and obviously do not want a child at this time in their lives. How desperate do some of them become and could they inflict even more torture on later term babies in an attempt to end the pregnancy? These and other issues have to be looked at and thought about rationally.
The other reason pro lifers get a bad rap is evident right in this thread. Some of them, and I understand it is due to being emotional and passsionate about this, come off as complete jerks (and that's putting it mildly). They assume they know exactly how you feel about the issue if you question them at all and they call you an immoral person who wants babies murdered, or they insinuate it strongly. I can't stand talking to these kind of people on this subject so I stay the hell out of these debates with the holier than thou's. Which means nothing gets accomplished between the two sides.
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So people live through it if you kill in self defense? The person is dead whether in self defense or not. You're talking about justifying killing. It's still killing.
Yep it's still killing, and I don't think your going to find many people who don't think it's OK to protect yourself, and save your own life.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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You see, I can do something about that. Unborn babies, as you say, cannot struggle/fight or even choose to survive. So they're out of luck. Why do you, or anyone else, get designated as their grand protector? The job of protecting your child belongs to the parents. The ONLY person who can truly protect an unborn child is the mother. If you can beam that thing out of there without assaulting the mother and you can keep it alive, it's all yours.
Thats so sad and sick that even I can't laugh about it. If your going to use those lines of thinking, it would be OK for somebody to grab a six month old baby and strangle it. (Hey he/she can't struggle enough to save themselves from an adult, so what the hell they are out of luck) do you really think it would be fine for anybody to stand by and watch that happen???
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Unborn babies are, technically speaking, parasites. If we're to look at it legally, they are "assaulting" the mother. As a form of self defense, she has it removed, they way you can surgically remove any other parasite. If the baby doesn't like it, they can go live somewhere else. If they can't survive outside the womb, well, then they die.
I'm starting to feel sorry for you bro. Your one sick puppy. 
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So babies don't have choice but people do. Which means they don't choose to live. They don't have a feeling about it one way or the other. I completely agree. For all we know, they agree with good old Mom.
You are not the one to judge, but yet you have "no doubts" that aborted babies go to heaven. Sounds like you don't really believe that God is the one who does the judging. Maybe he sends some of the aborted babies straight to hell. Right? we're not the ones to judge, after all.
I take that back, I'm not even feeling sorry for you. I'm feeling sorry for anybody who has to be around you
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Who gets to define what "good chance" means?
Congrats. Thats the first thing you have said in this thread that makes any sense at all, and it is a question thats worthy of debate.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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And who is arguing for abortion for the good of society, or to save money? It's about the mother's right to her body versus a noncitizen, nonperson, unbirthed baby's uncommunicated right to live. Kind of like a killing a chicken.
Now your comparing killing a baby to killing a chicken. I think you need committed worse than Brittney did
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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Abortion is a complicated issue, and I don't think anyone has teh right answer. So with that said, its everyone's own decision on whether they believe it is right or wrong-----but wherever you stand, that your stance---thats what you believe.
Its up to everyone to figure out there own position on this controversial topic. And once you know where you stand, then you're set. Pushing your beliefs on others isn't right.
Neither side will ever agree on who is right---and ther's no way to prove which side is right. So everyone has to just go with their gut and believe whatever it is that they feel is just---but calling an opinion right or wrong-----when it comes to this is just ridiculous.
Tyler it's a good thing people didn't think like that when it came to slavery. Hey some people think it was OK back then, and some people didn't. Tell me which side was right when it came to those two opinions? and I bet your glad one side stood up and fought for what they believed in.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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So people live through it if you kill in self defense? The person is dead whether in self defense or not. You're talking about justifying killing. It's still killing.
Yep it's still killing, and I don't think your going to find many people who don't think it's OK to protect yourself, and save your own life.
I'll give you a few: Jesus, Ghandi, MLK, for starters.
By the way, I'm not saying self defense is wrong. I'm fine with it. I was pointing out the flaw in your argument when you said we couldn't really criticize you as someone who is okay with some killing, and not with others. The amish, for example. You can't really criticize their view of abortion, because they don't believe in any type of killing as justified. They are consistent with no exceptions. No war, no self defense, no violence, period. they always turn the other cheek.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Abortion question which concerns
me...no debate intended.
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