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If this FO doesn't see Quinn as the future by now, we don't have one!
Unfortunately, I think this is the biggest issue in all of this.
If Quinn was a slam dunk, can't-miss type of prospect, ala Carson Palmer, I honestly feel like this would have turned out differently.
Apparently, he's not that.
Now, I ask you ... if you were Savage, what would you have done differently armed with the knowledge that the best qb could be either guy, but you aren't sure?
You would do exactly what he did...that is if you had the best interest of the Browns in mind.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Ah the signing of DA.
You mean the contract that pays DA the starter money? The contract that sends Quinn the message that he's second fiddle because you paid DA over 2 mil more per season?
If I were Quinn I'd raise hell wanting OUT of Cleveland! I think this is a slap in the face to Quinn. I hope he raises hell untill Phil HAS to deal him away and Phil chokes on DA.
DA is a mediocre never was with one HALF of a decsent season, then showed his true colors and tanked like many knew he would. Result? He gets paid more than Quinn?
Like I said, I hope Quinn raises so much hell and causes so much chaos that Phil has NO CHOICE but to trade him. Then he'll be stuck with Kyle Bowler........I mean Derrik Anderson.
Some mediocre never was that he overpaid. I hope Quinn makes him pay for it and I wouldn't blame him. If this FO doesn't see Quinn as the future by now, we don't have one!
 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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If this FO doesn't see Quinn as the future by now, we don't have one!
I'm pro Quinn but you need a chill pill dude.
It's more a question of wheather Quinn is pro Quinn than you or me.
Quite a chunk of his contract is incentive based. Why should he play second fiddle and accept "back up money" when this league needs young, talented QB's such as himself?
It would be foolish to put his career on hold when he doesn't have to. It appears that Savage values DA higher simply according to the numbers. After all, that's the bottom line. Talk is talk and the money is the money. Phil showed he valued DA higher. It's in the contract money.
Some call it being a cancer to the team.I call it standing up for himself and going where he's #1 instead of a one half season wonder. Because in this league? He has no reason to put up with such BS.
I think it would be hilarious! Then Phil would be stuck with the guy he paid the highest. DA as our long term starter.
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You are looking at the situation very narrow-mindedly and from one perspective only.
I'll ask you again...you are Savage. What would you have done?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Pit, is that you? Are you saying you wanna see the Browns fail so BQ's feeling can be vindicated?
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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He is taking a very narrow view but honestly, in one sense, he's not far off. One of these guys will not be here to start 2009. DA is the starter as of now. Quinn is the backup. But unless one of them has a catastrophic injury then both are gonna want be someplace as the starter to begin 2009. They both think they have starter's ability. And honestly, at this point, I could not tell either one they are wrong.
This year could be a helluva year, especially offensively. But we can't keep both guys happy past this year, IMO.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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It's more a question of wheather Quinn is pro Quinn than you or me.
I have no clue what you mean by that.
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Quite a chunk of his contract is incentive based. Why should he play second fiddle and accept "back up money" when this league needs young, talented QB's such as himself?
Because that's what the contract he signed says. He wasn't promised a starting job, and he hurt his chances by holding out.
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It would be foolish to put his career on hold when he doesn't have to. It appears that Savage values DA higher simply according to the numbers. After all, that's the bottom line. Talk is talk and the money is the money. Phil showed he valued DA higher. It's in the contract money.
Phil valued DA higher because he went out and did a good job last year....much to everyone's surprise. DA earned the starting job and it's his to lose. I can't believe some of these Quinn lovers who wish to see DA and the Browns falter so they can get their boy in.
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Some call it being a cancer to the team.I call it standing up for himself and going where he's #1 instead of a one half season wonder. Because in this league? He has no reason to put up with such BS.
I think it would be hilarious! Then Phil would be stuck with the guy he paid the highest. DA as our long term starter.
You think it would be hilarious if Phil made a mistake and the Browns pay for it? Are you a Quinn fan or a Brown's fan? From what you posted here, it's impossible to be both.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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PS stated something that differes a bit from you last reply... PS was clear on who the QB starter was... DA. Clearly because of the new contract and his 10-5 performance in 2007...
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I can't believe some of these Quinn lovers who wish to see DA and the Browns falter so they can get their boy in.
What surprises me is that you can't beleive it... it's been that way forever..
Ty Detmer/Tim Couch
Tim Couch/Kelly Holcomb
Kelly Holcomb/ Tim Couch
Jeff Garcia/anybody
Trent Dilfer/Charlie Frye
Charlie Frye/Derek Anderson
Derek Anderson/ Brady Quinn..
Like I said, what's so unusual! Some people never learn that sometimes, you gotta dance with the one who brung ya...
OK,, bring on the onslaught of attacks on me...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Ah the signing of DA.
You mean the contract that pays DA the starter money? The contract that sends Quinn the message that he's second fiddle because you paid DA over 2 mil more per season?
If I were Quinn I'd raise hell wanting OUT of Cleveland! I think this is a slap in the face to Quinn. I hope he raises hell untill Phil HAS to deal him away and Phil chokes on DA.
DA is a mediocre never was with one HALF of a decsent season, then showed his true colors and tanked like many knew he would. Result? He gets paid more than Quinn?
Like I said, I hope Quinn raises so much hell and causes so much chaos that Phil has NO CHOICE but to trade him. Then he'll be stuck with Kyle Bowler........I mean Derrik Anderson.
Some mediocre never was that he overpaid. I hope Quinn makes him pay for it and I wouldn't blame him. If this FO doesn't see Quinn as the future by now, we don't have one!
Wow... Really, Mrs. Quinn, you're son is in a great position on an up and coming team. If you really loved him, you'd want him to be a team player for your home town team and take advantage of a pretty enviable position with a great future ahead of him. Relax, I'm sure you'll get your Campbell's Chunky soup commercial. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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You mean the contract that pays DA the starter money? The contract that sends Quinn the message that he's second fiddle because you paid DA over 2 mil more per season?
If I were Quinn I'd raise hell wanting OUT of Cleveland! I think this is a slap in the face to Quinn. I hope he raises hell untill Phil HAS to deal him away and Phil chokes on DA.
The team just resigned the starting QB who won 10 games and was 7-0 as the starter at home, and you can't understand why?
As for Quinn raising hell, on what basis? He was chosen 22nd, not in the top ten. He held out and blew his chance to steal the starting position last year. Now he is going to complain because DA who earned a pay raise is making more money? I'm glad you are not Quinn.
Players always use the line, "it's just business". Well the tables are turned now and rightly so. Quinn has his contract, the one he held out for. He has no leverage what so ever to complain. He threw 8 passes.
Funny thing about posters saying things like you are, in reality Quinn isn't. For the most part, it seems he is taking the whole situation like a man. More than I can say for some 
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"too many notes, not enough music-"
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I personally prefer Quinn... but am not going to bash DA because of it... and personally I don't give a damn who the QB is if we're winning 
<><
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I personally prefer Quinn... but am not going to bash DA because of it... and personally I don't give a damn who the QB is if we're winning
My thoughts as well.
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http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsi...21848&rfi=6 Browns establish order at QB
Jeff Schudel, JSchudel@News-Herald.com
03/01/2008
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Anderson signs three-year contract with $14 million guaranteed; is now clear-cut starter ahead of 2007 top draft pick Quinn
Derek Anderson became a free agent at 12:01 a.m. Friday, and before sunrise on the opening day of free agency, he was a Brown again.
The question now is what happens next with Anderson locked up for three years and Brady Quinn under contract for four more seasons?
This much is clear, and General Manager Phil Savage was emphatic about it as he leaned close to a microphone Friday evening about 15 hours after Anderson agreed to a three-year contract:
"We are not trading Derek Anderson in 2008. Thank you very much," Savage said. "We are going through 2008 with both quarterbacks."
And this much is also clear: Anderson goes into 2008 as the starter and Quinn, a first-round draft choice from Notre Dame a year ago, is still the backup.
Savage said had Anderson signed for the one-year tender of $2.562 million, there would have been open competition between Anderson and Quinn in training camp. Instead, Anderson's contract, along with his performance last year, makes him the starter.
"When you sign a contract like we did with Derek, we go in with Derek as the lead horse," Savage said. "You don't sign a contract like that and say it's an open competition. But obviously, if Brady plays that well and D.A. isn't doing well, we have the wherewithal to bring in the relief pitcher."
Savage said he plans to talk with Quinn to reassure him he is still in the Browns' plans.
Anderson made $440,280 last season, his third in the NFL. He parlayed 29 touchdown passes and a 10-5 record in 2007 into a bonanza three-year contract worth between $24 million and $26 million, depending on incentives reached, when he agreed to re-sign with the Browns at about 4:30 a.m. Friday, just 41⁄2 hours after free agency began. More than half of his new contract, about $14 million, is guaranteed.
All along, the guaranteed portion of the contract was the sticking point in negotiations. At last report, as late as Thursday, the Browns were offering $20 million with half of it guaranteed. On Friday night, Savage said the Browns' offer by Thursday was slightly more than that.
The Browns did raise their offer after free agency began. Agreeing to increase the guaranteed portion while increasing the value of the total package proportionately was enough to convince Anderson's agents not to shop him to the rest of the league. Anderson might have been difficult to peddle because any team signing him would have had to compensate the Browns with a first-round and a third-round choice in the 2008 draft.'
"It feels good to get things taken care of and know I'm coming back to improve on what we did last season," Anderson said in a conference call from Oregon. "I told my agent (the Browns) is where I want to be. To be there with my teammates, we have a lot to accomplish and I want to be part of it."
From the beginning, Savage has said he prefers to go into 2008 with Anderson and Quinn at quarterback because if one is hurt the other could step in and play well. With only one good quarterback, a team is an injury away from disaster.
Plus, Savage got wind that a team drafting late in the first round was prepared to sign Anderson and fork over a first- and a third-round pick as compensation. The team was then going to trade Anderson for a high first-round pick.
"I didn't want to be standing on the street corner with a late one and a late three while another team was using our quarterback to go up into the top 10 of the draft," Savage said. "That was something that seemed to be a real possibility."
Now anyone find find that last part interesting? Who was this team ready to deal for DA then trade him again?? Could this have eventually been a division rival(sounds like Bats) that was behind all of this??
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Someone earlier mentioned Dallas.
Jerry Jones has the hots for McFadden allegedly.
Interesting. I figured Phil would take the bait, but then again, it sounds like he really didn't want DA to get jacked around. Ahhhh, what a nice guy.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I just believe it comes down to they are not 100% sure what they have with Quinn, and they'll be damned if they let DA walk and become a star somewhere else while Quinn falls on his face here. That's what this is, IMO.
Which makes me very nervous about the future of this team. Today we are in an enviable position...tomorrow we could make the wrong choice on the most important position on the football field.
I just wish the FO felt more comfortable about Quinn. This is the thing that bugs me the most.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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They would not have traded up to get Quinn if they didn't feel he can lead this team... Quinn sits one more year and takes over in 09 IMO.
<><
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They see him a lot more than we do, so they'd know. In the limiting time that I personally have watched him, he's looked great. His throws are on, he's got some zip, he gets rid of it, he checks down when needed, and hasn't forced anything. He also seems to have great command.
Maybe it's more of a "Derek has won us 10 games which is more than this team has won in a long time," then being afraid to commit to Quinn. Maybe they rather go with what they know instead of what could be.
They'll have a full camp and preseason to evaluate each guy. My opinions won't change until I see the results.
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I'm telling you guys right now they aren't sure. Otherwise, the last few days make no sense right down to Savage's quotes about DA being the starter.
If they were comfortable with Quinn, they would have let DA go, taken the pics, and signed a veteran backup.
They are petrified of getting this decision wrong. They are petrified of the backlash. And that comes from not being sure.
This is just my opinion, but I think it's spelled out pretty clearly. And I'm not saying Quinn can't or won't be great. I'm saying the FO is not sure. And I think that speaks volumes.
JAYBIRD: You're going back in time to a place when things were very, very different. The landscape has changed completely since we drafted Quinn. I don't think what they thought then carries as much weight in today's world.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I still disagree with you 100%... Savage knows his man... and I still say Quinn will be the starter in 09...
<><
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I still disagree with you 100%... Savage knows his man... and I still say Quinn will be the starter in 09...
If that's the case, why not take the pics for DA that were apparently on the table?
Why not come out and say it will be an open competition in camp?
Things just aren't adding up for me jay. If Quinn is the future, why not start that future now?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I know people talk about how we haven't seen enough of Quinn. But I have seen things in Quinn that I haven't seen in a QB since this team has been back, including DA. Not taking away anything from Derek.
I'm leaning more on my explanation. I'm sure they want to get it right, but they also feel that DA gave us a great run, and probably deserves to be a starter. Nobody has done what he did for this club. Potentially Brady can be all that Derek is and more. We'll just have to wait and see when he'll get the chance to show it.
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I don't think there is any way of telling what Savage thinks.
At the time of last year's draft Savage probably thought Quinn was a franchise QB, or I don't think he would have traded up for him.
By now, however, that attitude could have changed after seeing Quinn in practice for a year. I doubt it, but it is possible Savage is not as high on Quinn now as he was when he drafted him.
I also think if Anderson goes out this year and improves on his weaknesses, which I think he is very capable of doing, he will be the quarterback of the Browns for year to come.
Only time will tell how the situation plays out. JMHO.
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Maybe Savage didn't want anyone with those picks and feels this is a weak draft (hence we don't have any picks this year). And he wanted to give Quinn another year to learn, pay DA for a great past year, and if DA does well again we'll have the option of trading either DA or Quinn (I'd guess DA) for a high first rounder.
Also, reading quotes from Savage, he said he did not want to have DA moved from team to team which could have been the case if say Dallas took him, gave us two picks, then used him to move up to get McFadden...
I think to say that the FO is terrified of Quinn failing is idiotic... there's always a chance he'll faulter... hell... DA could go back to being consistently bad DA. But I trust Savage and don't see him making the kind of move to get Quinn that he did if he didn't think he could carry this team...
<><
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I'm sure they want to get it right, but they also feel that DA gave us a great run, and probably deserves to be a starter.
dp17, think about that statement for a minute.
If they felt Quinn was the clear cut better choice, would this statement hold any water? If they thought Quinn gave us the best chance to win, why wouldn't they do what's in the best interest of the Browns and make him the starter?
No matter what DA did last year, they will put the Browns first. And I think that's what they are doing. And that's why I say 'they don't know who the better qb is'.
Which makes me a little uneasy about Quinn...
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I see what your saying. I think Quinn hasn't had a full camp to fairly judge him. Savage probably truly wants 2 solid guys in there, but they know more than me. I've liked what I've seen, but I guess what I've seen is a lot less than what the FO has.
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How about this line of thinking for Savages reference: Quote:
Plus, Savage got wind that a team drafting late in the first round was prepared to sign Anderson and fork over a first- and a third-round pick as compensation. The team was then going to trade Anderson for a high first-round pick.
How about the fact that Savage didn't want to get made to look like an idiot when someone traded UP in the draft to get Anderson, and we are stuck with a lower round one pick while the team that traded with us gets a higher pick? That would kinda make us look foolish wouldn't it?
All that being said, I don't think we are trading Anderson to anyone THIS yr.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
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I think Savage wanted Anderson to play/ start this year because of our schedule. It's pretty pretty tough.. otherwise, Quinn would be our man. I think its simple as that.
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"I didn't want to be standing on the street corner with a late one and a late three while another team was using our quarterback to go up into the top 10 of the draft," Savage said. "That was something that seemed to be a real possibility."
This is VERY interesting and it seems to make perfect sense.
Dallas signs DA to a deal 'another' team agrees upon, Dallas essentially returns the pick we gave them last year for Quinn and they package DA, a #1 and their #2 most likely to Miami for the #1 pick.
Wonder if Savage is speculating about this or he somehow caught wind of it? Could be why we upped the contract to secure DA and keep him away from another team.
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I know people talk about how we haven't seen enough of Quinn. But I have seen things in Quinn that I haven't seen in a QB since this team has been back, including DA.
Eight passes in a meaningless game and you have seen more things in him, huh?
Sheesh! You wanna see it. That's why you see it. He hasn't shown us much of anything yet, one way or the other.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Personaly, I think he paid a tad much for an eventual back-up with limited skills that pretty much tanked the entire last half of the season. But hey, he's a fairly high quality back up. As far as back ups go.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Personaly, I think he paid a tad much for an eventual back-up with limited skills that pretty much tanked the entire last half of the season.
But hey, he's a fairly high quality back up. As far as back ups go.
I wanted the 1 & 3 also...Good value for a QB when u have his replacement in hand...
Things have changed...Guys like VERS have always made sense when they said SEE WHAT WE HAVE...
Things have changed...2008 is the defining year...
I keep thinking about what Farve said today...I'm Burnt...Wasted...Drained...From the week in and week out preparation needed...And the more he won the worse it got...
Now take that and relate it to a 24 year old 1st time Starter that got thrown to the wolves midway thru GAME ONE...And within a matter of days he finds out he's the man the rest of the way...GET TO WORK...
Noone's really right here...Noone's really wrong...We coulda got what we could at Anderson's highest value NOW...Or we could see how he developes in 2008 and KNOW FOR SURE which way we need to go...If he doesn't develop like we hope...We LOSE trade value...ALOT of it...SO WHAT...At least we KNOW FOR SURE NOW...Enter Quinn...And we WILL NOT carry Anderson as a #2 at this contract figure...
Anderson now has the benefit of KNOWING from the get go that he's the #1 QB on this team...It's his job to lose...He can work on a helluva lot between now and September...Mort said he was in the building till 10:30 at night last year...That's a good thing...
If he can get some of the mental game down we may just have our long term solution...He gets the long term contract at the big bucks in 2009/2010...And Quinn gets shopped next season...NO WAY Condon lets Quinn sit behind Anderson with the contract he has with everything riding on STARTING here...And Quinn will garner a VERY HIGH PICK...
2 things are gonna help us immensely...Some don't like the Stallworth signing but the relevance is significant...Jurevicious himself said to Savage we NEED A LEGIT #2 opposite Edwards...It wore him down...He KNOWS he's a slot receiver...JJ's output is gonna INCREASE because of it...He'll be that target when we need 6 on 3rd down...It may just prolong his career and make him want to play yet again in 2009...Don't think for a minute that the attention Stallworth required didn't help Moss get the TD record and have the monster year he did...
Another thing that will help this team significantly is the upgrading of this defense...We have NEVER been able to nullify a turnover because this D has basically been RUN OVER constantly...Turnovers converted to points is HUGE in the NFL...We're getting to the point that a turnover won't hurt as much because we can actually STOP someone...THIS IS HUMUNGUS...
There will be the CLUELESS ones who will start the Brady chants every time Anderson throws a pick...Go for it...Interceptions are PART OF THE GAME...They happen to the best of the best...And the BEST at it just RETIRED...
Upon thinking about our situation...WE ARE SITTING ON A GOLD MINE.....
DO NOT TRADE ANDERSON NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Go Browns!!!
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Legend
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Oh, I don't mind that they signed Anderson. But 8 mil a year for a back up is a tad steep. Anderson doesn't have the skill set for an NFL franchise QB, plain and simple. Which is exactly why he was only signed for three years. If Phil saw him "as the answer" he would have made a much longer commitment. I applaud Phil for not "overcommiting" to DA. For you see, not only did DA NOT "progress" he "regressed" as the season went on. As I've said before, we were VERY lucky that we sustained little to NO major OL injuries this past season. When and if we do, we'll have to depend on DA to move, throw on the run, etc....... You know, all the things he "can't do" because of his "physical limitations". So in a "perfect world" which he played in last season, he regressed greatly in the second half of the season. Imagine an "imperfect world"?  Phil knows Quinn is the future. Quinn knows Quinn is the future. No matter what team that may be for.  I'm just waiting to find out for sure before I buy a Quinn jersey.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
But 8 mil a year for a back up is a tad steep.
Anderson doesn't have the skill set for an NFL franchise QB, plain and simple.
#1, he's a starter. Maybe you believe him to be a backup, but he was the starter last year, and he's the starter now.
#2, who said he's a franchise QB? He's being paid as a starter, not a franchise player. If he improves, he'll be paid like a franchise player. If he doesn't, he becomes an expensive but very good backup for a year then is gone.
It's a good deal for the organization.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I'll go as far as "marginal starter at best". Not something you "build a franchise around". Sort of like Trent Dilfer and Kyle Boler.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
I'll go as far as "marginal starter at best".
Not something you "build a franchise around".
Sort of like Trent Dilfer and Kyle Boler.
Ohhh boy...
Anderson has his flaws but he's not nearly as flawed as you make him out to be, ESPECIALLY if he corrects them. My money is on that "he can't" but I don't KNOW that for sure, so I want to see how this plays out.
Anderson has two major flaws...
Accuracy and touch (especially on short stuff)
Throwing on the run (can't help but think we would have beaten Pittsburgh had he been able to complete a throw on the run to Jurevicius on 3rd down and extended a drive that we needed)...
His decision making is not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. In fact it improved immensely...it was his arm that betrayed him.
Even seasoned vets have improved later in their careers. Peyton Manning learned how to throw on the run after his 5th season I believe.
The touch and accuracy issue on the short stuff is my biggest concern...if he gets that down, WATCH OUT.
IMO, it's worth the $8 million a year gamble even if I think in the end the gamble won't pay off.
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Quote:
I'll go as far as "marginal starter at best".
I won't say that Phil Savage is smarter than you,, that woudn't be fair since I don't personally know either you or Phil at all...
But he's without a doubt, way more experienced in this industry than you and he just agreed to a 3 year deal paying DA pretty well.
While you are entitled to you opinion, your thinking flies in the face of a much more experienced individual..
I gotta go with Phil on this one.. Only makes sense to me. But to each his own I guess.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Another point I forgot to mention...
Jurevicius admitting he wore down down the stretch adds a whole new dimension to the decline of DA...cuz we all know Winslow limped to the finish line last year, leaving Edwards as the only real threat in our passing game.
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