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Haggans can play the pass fairly well too. He has done a good job in his career going man up to the tight end and backs.
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Yes he does..not thats a area I think Andra is good at..pass coverage...he seems better at that than against the run.
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That was part the Browns coverage issues last year. The LB's were letting TE's, slot receivers, and backs get a free release into the secondary, and Jones/Pool couldn't react quick enough.
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I noticed it a lot coming from the weakside..DQ's side...
But you're right ..NOT one LB hits or jams anyone coming free..
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Post deleted by Line Judge
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I dunno, but it probably belongs in the draft forum.
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by Tony Grossi Plain Dealer Reporter Thursday March 20, 2008, 3:24 PM
There doesn't appear to be another free-agent signing in the Browns' immediate future.
Both linebacker Clark Haggans and cornerback Bennie Sapp concluded their visits with the team without a contract agreement.
It is believed that the Browns did make an offer to Sapp, but the veteran of four seasons with the Kansas City Chiefs has elected to make at least one more visit.
"He had an excellent visit," said Alonzo Shavers, Sapp's agent. "We'll see how things play out. It is an excellent opportunity. We're just trying to weigh some options.
"This is kind of his window (of opportunity in free agency). We've had some things on the plate, but the Browns are on the top."
Sapp would come in as a backup cornerback and special teams player.
Haggans is the most productive pass rusher in a 3-4 defense available in free agency. He had 25 sacks starting the past four seasons with the Pittsburgh Steelers. But the Browns' interest appears lukewarm.
Jeff Sperbeck, Haggans' agent, indicated to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, that Haggans hasn't ruled out returning to the Steelers.
Sperbeck did not immediately return two messages for an update on Haggans' visit with the Browns.
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Two things that are bugging the hell out me. And please don't take this as me picking on you, but I feel that they both need cleared up.
1. Haggans is a much better pass rusher than some of you are giving him credit for. In fact, I think it is a strength of his. No way is he just a run defender. Not even close. Haggans has some explosion, power, and speed as a pass rusher. He is much better than you guys say.
2. OLBs jam TEs off of the LOS. However, ILBers are not expected to jam potential receivers. They will sometimes smash an unsuspecting RB, but for the most part, they take their drops and use their eyes to read the play. It's kinda stupid to try and jam faster, quicker guys who are already running. The OLB can get away w/the jam because he nails the TE at the LOS at the snap. If an ILBer tries to jam receivers and misses.............you are going to get toasted. Big difference in the responsibilities. And that stuff about Davis and DQ jamming guys should not even be part of this conversation.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
2. OLBs jam TEs off of the LOS. However, ILBers are not expected to jam potential receivers. They will sometimes smash an unsuspecting RB, but for the most part, they take their drops and use their eyes to read the play. It's kinda stupid to try and jam faster, quicker guys who are already running. The OLB can get away w/the jam because he nails the TE at the LOS at the snap. If an ILBer tries to jam receivers and misses.............you are going to get toasted. Big difference in the responsibilities. And that stuff about Davis and DQ jamming guys should not even be part of this conversation.
That is not true in a zone defense, A ILB is expected to any TE or RB who teavels through his zone. Failure to do so makes it difficult for the secondary to pick up that route runner at the next level.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Only if they cross their face. They are not on seek and and destroy missions. No way!
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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2nd String
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Quote:
"He had an excellent visit," said Alonzo Shavers, Sapp's agent. "We'll see how things play out. It is an excellent opportunity. We're just trying to weigh some options
This is just "Agent speak" for We are More interested in Money than a Superbowl!  IMHO If we don't get a substantially more money offer, then we will come back to Cleveland! Good luck with that!  JMHO Go Brownies!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
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Interesting comment considering one of the responsiblities of the SAM is to head up the TE at close to the LOS as possible and chuck him on his inside shoulder..
The Will should head up his man at 5 yards off the LOS and he has first read of the WR dropping into his slant..so he can make contact inside..thats DQ and he really should be the better coverage backer.
I never said he should come up to the LOS and jam a guy .
I'm talking once these guys get off the LOS they are coming too cleanly inbetween the backer drops and the secondary with no resistance.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 03/21/08 09:18 AM.
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Cleveland Browns show little interest in linebacker Clark Haggans, but like cornerback Bernie Sapp Friday, March 21, 2008 Tony Grossi Plain Dealer Reporter If the Browns have one more free-agent signing up their sleeves, it doesn't appear to be Clark Haggans. The veteran Pittsburgh outside linebacker left a Browns' visit without a contract offer. And with nothing else on the horizon, agent Jeff Sperbeck indicated to one media outlet in Pittsburgh that Haggans has not ruled out returning to the Steelers. Meanwhile, the Browns are believed to have made an offer to Kansas City cornerback Bennie Sapp. Sapp "had an excellent visit" with the Browns, said agent Alonzo Shavers, but the four-year backup player has elected to make at least one more visit. "We'll see how things play out," Shavers said. "[The Browns' situation is] an excellent opportunity. We're just trying to weigh some options. This is kind of his window [of opportunity in free agency]. We've had some things on the plate, but the Browns are on the top." The Browns are down a cornerback after using starter Leigh Bodden in the trade for Detroit tackle Shaun Rogers. If signed, Sapp likely would rank below Eric Wright, Daven Holly and Brandon McDonald on the depth chart. The Browns also have re-signed Gary Baxter, who may compete at safety when he continues his comeback from patellar tendon surgery on both knees. To reach this Plain Dealer reporter: tgrossi@plaind.com, 216-999-4670
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Quote:
Only if they cross their face. They are not on seek and and destroy missions. No way!
I didnt say anything about seek and destroy missions but a ILB must cover that guy through his zone and knock him off his route.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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Girls...you're both pretty.
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Girls...you're both pretty.
WTH are you talking about??
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I think he was just trying to lighten the situation before an arguement started. What he should have said was "Girls...you're both pretty ugly." 
#gmstrong
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It was a joke because you two were squabbling over little things. Yeesh!
BIGC
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Quote:
I think he was just trying to lighten the situation before an arguement started. What he should have said was "Girls...you're both pretty ugly."
I have made a total of two posts in this thread, and vers has made one to me. Neither one was nasty, so were nowhere near a argument. We are discussing the role of a ILB, not a big deal to me. You are right though, we would both make ugly girls.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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The Browns are down a cornerback after using starter Leigh Bodden in the trade for Detroit tackle Shaun Rogers.
If signed, Sapp likely would rank below Eric Wright, Daven Holly and Brandon McDonald on the depth chart. The Browns also have re-signed Gary Baxter, who may compete at safety when he continues his comeback from patellar tendon surgery on both knees.
At this moment it's the biggest hole..and there aren't any top CB's with experience out there..
This is for depth..but I would still try to find a big corner in the draft.
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Quote:
The Browns are down a cornerback after using starter Leigh Bodden in the trade for Detroit tackle Shaun Rogers.
If signed, Sapp likely would rank below Eric Wright, Daven Holly and Brandon McDonald on the depth chart. The Browns also have re-signed Gary Baxter, who may compete at safety when he continues his comeback from patellar tendon surgery on both knees.
At this moment it's the biggest hole..and there aren't any top CB's with experience out there..
This is for depth..but I would still try to find a big corner in the draft.
That would be my first pick, as it's the most shallow position on the team
"My country is the world, and my religion is to do good" Thomas Paine
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Thankfully though this is a crazy deep CB draft...I'd love for the Browns to grab Tracy Porter if he's there in the fourth.
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Thankfully though this is a crazy deep CB draft...I'd love for the Browns to grab Tracy Porter if he's there in the fourth.
I highly doubt he'll be there in the fourth, most projections i've seen on him are that he is a second round pick. Personally it wouldn't surprise me if KC took him early in the 2nd.
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j/c
Does anyone know if there has been anything new with Al Wilson? I really want him. He would be a great inside backer for us.
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Possible. If not Porter, I think one of the corners will slip to the fourth.
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My 2 cents I think Mcdonald takes the place of Bodden with no drop off. I think Mcdonald will rock this year. 
Joe Thomas #73
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My 2 cents I think Mcdonald takes the place of Bodden with no drop off.
I think Mcdonald will rock this year.
Even if that materialized to be true, we will be one Wright or McDonald injury away from being in big trouble in the secondary.
That's the scary part.
We were so lucky with injuries last year. I don't expect that this year.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Interesting comment considering one of the responsiblities of the SAM is to head up the TE at close to the LOS as possible and chuck him on his inside shoulder..
The Sam is not an inside LBer. The Sam is an OLBer who plays to the strong side of the offensive formation.
Oh, and I wasn't upset w/King at all. He made a football comment. I like those.
Guys, my point is that Inside linebackers typically need to get depth on passing plays. They rarely just stand there waiting for someone to cross their face. They also don't step forward or run towards the back who is coming through the middle of the line. That would be suicide.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Legend
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Isn't it "Will" and "Mike" in the 3-4?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Isn't it "Will" and "Mike" in the 3-4?
Will and Mike are the two ILBers. There really isnt a SAM in a 3-4 since OLBers are basically DEs.
KING
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The Will, Sam, and Mike terms are from a traditional 4-3 defense.
The Will plays on the Weak side. The Mike plays in the Middle, and the Sam plays on the Strong side. You can see how they came up w/those creative names, right? *L*
I never ran a 3-4, but I know that they are called Outside linebackers and Inside linebackers. I'm not sure if they have a specific term for the OLBs, as in who plays on the strong side and who plays on the weak. I also don't know if they have a specific term for each of the two Inside LBers.
What I do know is that the OLB [Sam in a 4-3] must hit the TE at the LOS, but the Middle or ILBers don't have that responsibility. Like I said earlier, their first priority on most pass plays is to get good depth on their drops and not wait for the RB [who may come through or may not] and make contact w/him.
Btw........I see what King was saying, but I don't think he read the three posts from Attack and Big C that prompted my point on this topic. And I am not trying to get on anyone, but I don't like it when people get the wrong idea about a player's responsibilities. Nothing more, nothing less.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Sam... Mike..whateva..the players ain't dying cuze I used the wrong term..
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Or Mac and Buck. Depends on your style of 3-4.
Just clicking...
As a point of reference guys, the Browns play (at least under Grantham) a left-right allignment, rather than a strong-weak. It's a staple of the Parcells family 3-4 defense.
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Legend
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And I don't know how I feel about it really because I remember that Wimbley seemed to do a hell of a lot better when he lined up against the RT sometimes.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Aren't LT's normally 'better' than RT's in talent though? and thats why they are placed on the left side? or is that just a 'stereotype'? lol...
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Quote:
Aren't LT's normally 'better' than RT's in talent though? and thats why they are placed on the left side? or is that just a 'stereotype'? lol...
Yes the are generally better and they are places on that side to protect the generally RHed QBs blind side.
KING
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Legend
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Yeah, which makes me wonder why teams don't put their best pass rusher over the RT on obvious passing downs.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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Yeah, which makes me wonder why teams don't put their best pass rusher over the RT on obvious passing downs.
Because the QB can see it coming much easier. The LT protects his blindside. Unless they are a southpaw.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Legend
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Duh, I think I just thought myself out of common sense.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Most speed rushers couldn't match up with the strength of a RT too.
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