|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,343
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,343 |
How many know what the word "hypothetical" means? pdawg: who is that guy? 
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,232
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,232 |
Bill Livingston: Future still belongs to Quinn Posted by Bill Livingston Plain Dealer Columnist February 29, 2008 23:07PM Categories: Bill Livingston columns, Browns The Browns re- signed Derek Anderson because they did not want to waste the nearly full season of starting experience he had. Anderson, however, made a hash of the season's second half, when he should have been building on his experience. Anderson was a pleasant surprise who was supposed to baby-sit the quarterback position until Brady Quinn, his Subway sandwich commercial aside, was ready to be "kind of busy on Sundays." Instead, in a league desperate for quarterbacking, Anderson reached the ESPN.com-bestowed status of "rising star." National analysts speculated that Anderson would receive a long-term, megamillions contract extension. Those poor guys must not have cable. Otherwise, they would have seen the way Anderson played in the last eight games. After four games in the first eight with a quarterback rating above 100, after throwing 17 touchdown passes with nine interceptions in the first half of the season, Anderson's second half featured two games in the 50s, three in the 70s, nothing in triple figures, and 12 TDs to 10 picks. This was Tim Couch stuff. Couch finished 64-67 here in TDs and picks. The only way to reconcile the disparate halves of Anderson's season is to accept that he is a gunslinger capable of stunning streaks of both brilliance and confusion. The hot streaks didn't last as long as the cold ones. The "bad" Anderson didn't erase the memories of the "good," but it does mean there should be a fair and open competition for starting quarterback in training camp. Anderson started like a fantasy league hall-of-famer. He gave the whole organization a reprieve with his five touchdown passes against Cincinnati in the game after Charlie Frye was sent packing, when the whole stadium was ready to burst into "We want Brady!" chants. But his level of play fell significantly in the last eight games as opponents rattled him. He left the field, hands clasped to his helmet, distraught, after many of his four interceptions in the second Cincinnati game, the one that cost the playoffs. Teams don't waste first-round draft choices on quarterbacks who warm the bench for long, except in Green Bay, where a man takes warmth anywhere he can get it. Aaron Rodgers, Brett Favre's caddie for three years, is wasting away, throwing exactly one touchdown pass with one interception. Ever. Let me know when Anderson looks like Favre. The Browns traded a first-round choice in this year's draft to move up high enough to select Quinn. They do not have the first- and third-round draft choices they hoped to get from a team outbidding them to sign Anderson. Time will tell whether they overrated Anderson. They do, indisputably, have a quarterback controversy. They have a quarterback in Quinn who made throws, admittedly against exhibition-season defenses, that neither Frye nor Anderson made. Quinn was also terrific the one time they let him play when games counted. He lacks experience, including the experience of being in over his head while the playoff drive fell short. It was Quinn, not coach Charlie Weis, who made Notre Dame competitive. It is Quinn who should become the face of the Browns' franchise. Unless he becomes another expression of its folly. http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/02/bill_livingston_future_still_b.html
Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,065 |
Given that Anderson couldn't beat Frye in a QB competition, I highly doubt Brady Quinn will be on the bench come the start of the season (if he's as good as many think he is).
No reason to trade Brady. Let it all play out and see who the best man is in camp.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6 |
i can live with anderson, but I really like the security blanket! I want them both unless its an offer u cant refuse... ala Ricky Williams type draft!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,103
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,103 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,827
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,827 |
Quote:
i can live with anderson, but I really like the security blanket! I want them both unless its an offer u cant refuse... ala Ricky Williams type draft!!!
Fireman - Always good to have new posters with reasonable perspectives. Welcome to the board.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 468
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 468 |
I understand your point....Quinn deserves a chance to be a Starter....Hoewever , I just don't see Savage Trading him JMHO  ....
The Mammal
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We don't know how good Quinn is BUT our glimpses of him in 07 were enough for me to consider him the better QB.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Enough for you to consider him the better QB. What was he? 3 for 8 for 45 yards?
"Eight passes was all I needed to see."
To be fair, Brady had two or three passes hit WR or TE in the hands only to be dropped, including a TD.
To be fair, we're talking about EIGHT pass attempts...and some people have seen all they need to see. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 890
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 890 |
Stupid article, Quinn is going to be good imo no doubt, but what the hell has Anderson done to lose the starting job?
![[Linked Image from i4.photobucket.com]](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/Defiantmac/nickk2.jpg) PRO-BOWLER!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 94
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 94 |
Quote:
Stupid article, Quinn is going to be good imo no doubt, but what the hell has Anderson done to lose the starting job?
Please see Dec. 20 game against Bengals. That's what DA did to lose his starting job.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 187
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 187 |
Quote:
Please see Dec. 20 game against Bengals. That's what DA did to lose his starting job.
Please see the 10 wins. That's what he did to keep the starting job until camp is open.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
I agree stupid thread.
I know it is hypothetical, but it is still stupid.
My question, still, is to the Quinn fanatics. Forget that it's the Browns, DA, and Quinn, and answer yourself honestly. You have a first year starter that comes off the bench in the first game, a losing debacle, and goes on to HELP the team win ten games, goes undefeated as a starter at home, throws 29 TDs, and ends up playing in the Pro-Bowl. Other than a blind love for, or a unbelievable desire to have Quinn as the starter, could you possibly, realistically think DA should not go to camp as the starter.
Trading Quinn is foolish. I'm sure he will be pissed if he doesn't start and misses some incentives. But as the players themselves use as an excuse for wanting more money, IT"S A BUSINESS!!! If Quinn wants his incentives, go to camp and steal the starters job from DA. Those implying that the Browns are screwing him out of money, have to remember, he hasn't done anything yet. And those who feel he HAS to be given a chance even if DA is playing at a high level as the starter, are even more foolish.
Savage signing DA was a great move. Anderson's contract is not that big, and Quinn's is resonable also. If Quinn wins the job out right, something I believe he can do, he earns his incentives and DA gets a nice payday as a back-up, but not one that is too high to carry for a year.
Trading Quinn would be stupid. Worrying about him being upset that he is not going to make more money because DA is starting is assinine. If he wants the incentive money, he will have to earn it. If he can't, Savage looks even smarter keeping both.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,577
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,577 |
Until we get to the back end of August and camp is done, this is a purely hypothetical question. Personally, I favor keeping both until such time as we don't take a big accelerated cap hit IF we trade.
At this time, I'm actually thinking more about the 09 draft and what RB's will be available.. I'd be happy watching Beanie develop behind Jamal..
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 890
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 890 |
Quote:
Quote:
Stupid article, Quinn is going to be good imo no doubt, but what the hell has Anderson done to lose the starting job?
Please see Dec. 20 game against Bengals. That's what DA did to lose his starting job.
So what? People have bad games, he did have a few during the year and it probably did cost us big time in the end, but for him to lose his starting job because of a few bad performances (Should Romo, Peyton Manning, or other great QB's lose their job because of a few bad games?) is stupid.
PRO-BOWLER!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
With all due respect intended GM, the 3-year contract with no guarantees after the 1st year spells out the fact that we're not trading Quinn this year. Had Anderson signed a much larger deal, he'd have been guaranteed the job, but that obviously isn't the case.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,343
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,343 |
Quote:
I agree stupid thread.
I know it is hypothetical, but it is still stupid.
He asked a hypthetical question about what you'd want if we traded BQ, he didn't ask for another QB debate. What's so stupid about that?
Don't you grasp the concept of this thread?
gmstrong -----------------
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
Quote:
I agree stupid thread.
I know it is hypothetical, but it is still stupid.
My question, still, is to the Quinn fanatics. Forget that it's the Browns, DA, and Quinn, and answer yourself honestly. You have a first year starter that comes off the bench in the first game, a losing debacle, and goes on to HELP the team win ten games, goes undefeated as a starter at home, throws 29 TDs, and ends up playing in the Pro-Bowl. Other than a blind love for, or a unbelievable desire to have Quinn as the starter, could you possibly, realistically think DA should not go to camp as the starter.
Trading Quinn is foolish. I'm sure he will be pissed if he doesn't start and misses some incentives. But as the players themselves use as an excuse for wanting more money, IT"S A BUSINESS!!! If Quinn wants his incentives, go to camp and steal the starters job from DA. Those implying that the Browns are screwing him out of money, have to remember, he hasn't done anything yet. And those who feel he HAS to be given a chance even if DA is playing at a high level as the starter, are even more foolish.
Savage signing DA was a great move. Anderson's contract is not that big, and Quinn's is resonable also. If Quinn wins the job out right, something I believe he can do, he earns his incentives and DA gets a nice payday as a back-up, but not one that is too high to carry for a year.
Trading Quinn would be stupid. Worrying about him being upset that he is not going to make more money because DA is starting is assinine. If he wants the incentive money, he will have to earn it. If he can't, Savage looks even smarter keeping both.
His stats got worse as the season progressed. And he's never corrected the problems that I've seen since last year. That is my concern. And he looked AWFUL in the Pro Bowl. And that is with superstars playing all around him and soft coverage because they can't press. And he couldn't hit the side of a building.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 48
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 48 |
Quote:
Trade Quinn? Yes, that's the least the Browns can do for him. Brady deserves the opportunity to be a starter in the NFL, not sitting on the sidelines
watching DA throwing balls six feet over the heads of Winslow and Edwards and his infamous interceptions in the endzone. Since Savage and the Browns are so enamored with this medicore QB and plan to stick with him and reward him with contracts and money he doesn't deserve - then go ahead trade Brady and get some other guy to act as backup to "their" franchise QB.
BTW, Bill Livingston of the PD has an excellent column in this morning's paper talking about the possibility of another Browns' "folly".
IMO What the FO is doing now is the "Least they could do for US Fans". Football is a business and since our return we have not been successfull at running that business until the last few years. Now in the last few years we are making some progress and yet we have fans that appear unhappy with what they are trying to do.
BQ wanted to come to the Browns!! He made that a point in last years draft, hoping that We would take him at #3. Like my parents always say "Be careful what you ask for!!" Yes, we made his wish come true and moved back into the first to pick him up. Unhappy? He decided to sit out for what he and his agents felt he was worth (top 5 money) and he did not get it.
PS is doing exactly what he needs to do to rebuild this franchise. I really could care less what writers like Livingston think. Since our return we want to win so badly that there has always been the "Play our backup" mentality. Finally, a QB puts together a decent season (barring the sloppy late season play) and because we did not go to the playoffs ....Let's play the backup BQ.
Afterall, DA couldn't beat out Charlie Frye for the starters position at the beginning of last season, so we must have a better backup QB in BQ. I guess using that mentality then years ago NE should have gone to their #3 QB since Tom Brady couldn't beat out Bledsoe for the starting position in camp?
Both of these young men are still learning the game. There is not alot of money tied up in either of them, unlike some rookie QBs contracts. Financially it is not hurting us to keep both of them and let them learn the position.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
Bill Livingston: Future still belongs to Quinn
Man, the Cleveland media sucks. Talk about slanted journalism.
The team goes 10 and 5 w/him. He almost sets a TD record; throws for nearly 3800 yds, leads the offense to a near-record # of pts.; is a Pro Bowl alternate in a conference that has the better QBs; doesn't take sacks; goes undefeated at home, etc and Livingston says that the "hot streaks didn't last as long as the cold ones."
Get the hell outta here, you hack. 
And when was the last time the Cleveland media was ever right about the QB situation in Cleveland? They are star gazers, not football guys.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 478
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 478 |
JC,
For me this question boils down to how comfortable you are with DA. I think that he has a chance to be a quality starter, but he must improve and I like the safety blanket of BQ.
To me, by trading away BQ you are taking a big risk when you don't have to as they are both signed to reasonable contracts right now. To trade BQ this year before the draft I would want at least a second and third this year and a first next year.
My reasoning being, that I would want to be able to pick up another Defensive piece of the puzzle in round two and a young backup QB in round 3, and then have the 1 st next year as the insurance policy if neither DA or the third round pick panned out.
Personally I am still too unsure of either QB to trade one away at this time and it would take an unbelievable offer to get me to give up the added security that either one brings.
I do find it funny that most of the posters who wanted DA gone are shy about getting rid of Quinn, out of fear of DA getting injured, but are not in the least bit concerned about trading DA and BQ getting injured.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Trade Quinn? Yes, that's the least the Browns can do for him. Brady deserves the opportunity to be a starter in the NFL, not sitting on the sidelines
watching DA throwing balls six feet over the heads of Winslow and Edwards and his infamous interceptions in the endzone. Since Savage and the Browns are so enamored with this medicore QB and plan to stick with him and reward him with contracts and money he doesn't deserve - then go ahead trade Brady and get some other guy to act as backup to "their" franchise QB.
BTW, Bill Livingston of the PD has an excellent column in this morning's paper talking about the possibility of another Browns' "folly".
Man, some of you guys really can't see the big picture (and that includes the media, though at least the media has an excuse for saying what they say: They have to sell newspapers).
And just so that I can't be accused of drifting away from the main question: Sure, trade Quinn, but only for 2 1st round picks. Why 2 1st rounders? Because if Anderson fails, we'd have to spend BOTH 1st round picks on QB's in order to beat that "50% rule" on 1st round QB's.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
I fully grasp the concept. Sorry my opinion irked you. All I did was comment on why I thought it was stupid, and offered my opinion on the subject. The thread IS about the QB's, so I talked about them. This is a message board, conversation is welcomed I thought  If you are bother by my reply, sorry. Next time I will PM you and see if my reply is acceptable to you  What would I want for Quinn in a trade? Simple, an explanation on why such a stupid thing was done Happy now?
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,684
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,684 |
We can agree that DA did not have as good of a second half as the first half.
But looking at the superficial stats, does not reveal that the games were played in substandard conditions. To expect that DA would maintain the pace is unrealistic at best.
I can buy into the crappy Cincy game, and a lousy AZ game but other than that, his play was pretty solid.
Keeping Quinn around makes all the sense in the world. QB's get injuried.
I won't concede the point that DA is better than Quinn until the beginning of next year, when we have a full training camp and preseason to base a judgement.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 468
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 468 |
True....His $ 14.5M on our salary cap also ensures that Quinn won't be moved this season.....However , Quinn's ego has to be shaken , I mean he could come out in Training Camp & Preseason and Absolutely outplay Anderson and still be relegated to the bench....No Matter how Good he performs we are Not going to take a $ 14.5M hit to our salary cap and for a Backup QB....That said , Quinn sits unless Anderson gets hurt and continues to not gain experience and his Trade Value continues to drop....IF we are thinking of ever trading Quinn in the future , the only way we get fair value is IF he plays and succeeds....IF he is the future IMHO both for him and us the future should have been now....I mean how much of a factor is Quinn being sidelined have on his ego ,motivation , confidence etc in terms of his future potential success ?....IMHO considering the magnitude of the deal to get Quinn , Mr. Savage can't afford to have failed on his evaluation , no matter how Good Anderson could potential be....One way or another success or Trade Value must be recouped from Quinn....So far Savage's Talent evaluation has been Good and far better than anytime in previous Browns history ....
The Mammal
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 890
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 890 |
Quote:
Quote:
Bill Livingston: Future still belongs to Quinn
Man, the Cleveland media sucks. Talk about slanted journalism.
The team goes 10 and 5 w/him. He almost sets a TD record; throws for nearly 3800 yds, leads the offense to a near-record # of pts.; is a Pro Bowl alternate in a conference that has the better QBs; doesn't take sacks; goes undefeated at home, etc and Livingston says that the "hot streaks didn't last as long as the cold ones."
Get the hell outta here, you hack.
And when was the last time the Cleveland media was ever right about the QB situation in Cleveland? They are star gazers, not football guys.
Great post man, I hate Cleveland media.
PRO-BOWLER!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,963
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,963 |
Quote:
I agree stupid thread.
I know it is hypothetical, but it is still stupid.
I don't know if anyone ever mentioned this to you, but participation in any thread is purely voluntary... You don't have to respond if you think a thread is stupid ya know.. you could have just glanced at it and moved along without so much as a whimper 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,368
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,368 |
ahhh for those who think this is a stupid thread, please point out where I said we should trade Quinn ...... I ask what you thought would be fair compensation for him IF we did trade him. For those of you who are saying NO WAY would, or should we trade Quinn, why do you feel different about trading him if you were all for trading DA? It's also funny to read so many posters saying we need two QB's when so many were all for trading away DA and leaving us with one QB worth playing time.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
However , Quinn's ego has to be shaken , I mean he could come out in Training Camp & Preseason and Absolutely outplay Anderson and still be relegated to the bench....
First, answering to Quinn's ego........
His agent has allready told him what this deal with Anderson really means. Quinn knows that the Browns have rewarded Derek for his play, but that the terms of the deal clearly spell out that this is not Anderson's job past this season. Hence, if Quinn is so emotionally soft that he's going to crumble under this pressure, then he's not the guy we need, and he can't leave the team fast enough for my tastes. Furthermore, Quinn held out and cost himself a better chance at the gig last year. If he's going to point fingers, it needs to be at his agent and himself. Again, if he's going to blame the Browns or someone else, I don't want him on this team.
Now, as to being relegated to the bench if he clearly outplays Anderson...........that won't happen. If he clearly is the guy, you can bet that the team won't hesitate to leave him in there. Why? Because paying Anderson is a done deal, and won't hinder us once the season has started. Remember, it's not as though we've dedicated ourselves to Anderson beyond this season. If Quinn outplays him and takes the job, Anderson is on the fast-track out of town come the offseason, and even possibly before the trading deadline.
I can't strongly emphasize enough the meaning of this contract. People tend to get hung up on the immensity of the numbers because of how they relate to the money we make in OUR real lives. In terms of the Browns, this represents very little when viewing it in the realm of the big picture. We've rewarded Anderson for his season while simultaneously guaranteed ourselves the best shot at finding the right guy at the most vital position on the team going into the future. Remember, all the FO really wants is for one of these guys to TAKE the job and not let go. If one manages to do that NOW, the money becomes nothing, and the organization does a jig out of joy.
Here's what people need to realize about Quinn's contract, and how it pertains to the big picture of the monies paid to Anderson:
Quote:
8/7/2007: Signed a five-year, $9.25 million contract. The deal includes $7.75 million in guarantees. Another $11 million is available though escalators in 2010 and 2011 based on Quinn taking at least 55% of the snaps in each of the first two years or at least 70% in his third season. Another $9.8 million is available, but is unlikely to be earned.
That's courtesy of Rotoworld.
Quinn has allready lost out on that money because he didn't take the snaps in the first year. We've simply transfered money that was allready set aside for Quinn and given it to Anderson. The team really isn't losing money over this, at least not money that is substantial in the big picture. Now, if Quinn manages to take the job next year, Anderson and his NON-GUARANTEED contract is shipped out one way or another. The money that was then set aside for Anderson is paid out to Quinn, and again, problem solved with no substantial loss of money for the team.
The only REAL concern involves the salary cap, but as has allready been explained, there isn't a situation here that cripples our ability to sign free agents, so the concern is moot.
One more thing I'll drone on before I stop  To assume that Quinn is rotting away on the bench is ludicrous.  He got better by learning this past season, and he'll get even better by learning this season. Sure, he needs playing time, but he's not getting worse, and his trade value is NOT going down. If we put him up for trade right now, he's worth MORE than what we paid for him because of his experience gained in his rookie season. Furthermore, if he's put on the trade block next year, a team WILL give us great value in return for his services. So complaining about either of those issues is unfounded.
Now, please, don't allow me to waste any more of everyone's time by putting things in their proper perspectives.........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,480
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,480 |
Where is it posted that Quinn has a 14.5 million dollar hit if he is traded,
my best guess is that it should be a cap hit nearer the $5-7 million range
Not that either of these guys is going to be traded, unless we get a monster deal. I'm sure phil is out there listening to deals for either guy (he'd be an idiot not to be, given how valuable young starting quality quarterbacks are in this league, and how one of them won't be valuable to us.) But I doubt he's actively shopping either of them.
The only way I see quinn being moved is if a team with a top 5/10 grades Quinn out higher than Matt Ryan / Brian Brohm, and is willing to give up that top 5 pick, plus maybe a 2nd in 2009 for him.
~Lyuokdea
~Lyuokdea
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,513 |
Really nice post Toad!!!
In terms of the thread... I don't think Quinn should or will be traded... and I agree with shep that I'd start with at least two first rounders before I even considered it.
<><
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
POSTED 2:48 p.m. EST, March 1, 2008
QUINN LOOKS FORWARD TO A COMPETITION THAT WON'T HAPPEN
James Walker of the Columbus Dispatch, who covers the Browns from Brady Quinn's true hometown, has a couple of interesting quotes regarding the aftermath of the Derek Anderson deal.
Said Quinn, of whom the Browns thought sufficiently highly to give up a first-round pick and a high second-round pick: "We're both obviously good quarterbacks. It puts us in a good position if anything were ever to happen. I'm just looking forward to the competition."
Um, Brady? What competition? Anderson isn't getting $8 million per year to engage in a "competition."
"When you sign a contract like we did with Derek, I don’t think there’s going to be an 'open competition'," Browns G.M. Phil Savage said. "We go in with Derek as the lead horse. You don't sign a contract like that and say, 'hey, it's an open competition'."
The irony is that Quinn wouldn't be yearning for a "competition" if he hadn't held out of training camp last year. Presumably, he would have been in line to replace Charlie Frye, and Anderson never would have gotten a shot to show that he's good enough to garner a three-year, $24 million deal.
So maybe the commission on Anderson's deal shouldn't go to his agents at Athletes First. Maybe Anderson should be shaving off three points for Quinn's agent, Tom Condon. Because if Condon hasn't kept Quinn out of camp in a dispute over play-time incentives that Quinn will now likely never earn, Anderson would at most have gotten the second-round tender for 2008.
That should answer any concerns about Quinn and his ego.
Anderson is the starter THIS year........just as long as he doesn't falter. Next year.......that's a horse of a different color.......and Quinn knows it. If he and his camp didn't, they'd be rattling their sabers by demanding a trade.
Do the math.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,695
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,695 |
If we trade Quinn, it will be after next season.
If DA picks up and improves a bit on last season, BQ will be asking to leave town.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 385
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 385 |
Quote:
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair, Brady had two or three passes hit WR or TE in the hands only to be dropped, including a TD.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be fair as well, Brady could have gone 8 for 8 with a TD and it is still not enough to make a decision, that could impact this franchise for years to come, on.
Oh, I completeley agree, your barking up the wrong tree here. I just don't like people using that 1 drives stats & percentage against the young man either. He played better than that completion percentage
That comment was not directed at you, it was just a statement in genral..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 242
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 242 |
I think Quinn's use of the word "competition" was taken out of context here. I don't think he meant that there would be a training camp battle where both players started out on the same plane, I think he just meant that he would have to compete to keep his chances of eventually taking over the starting spot alive.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 385
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 385 |
Quote:
I think Quinn's use of the word "competition" was taken out of context here. I don't think he meant that there would be a training camp battle where both players started out on the same plane, I think he just meant that he would have to compete to keep his chances of eventually taking over the starting spot alive.
I like the fact that Quinn is going into training camp with the intention of this being a competition. I think it says a lot about his competitiveness.. Plus, you never know...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
Trade Quinn? Yes, that's the least the Browns can do for him. Brady deserves the opportunity to be a starter in the NFL, not sitting on the sidelines
watching DA throwing balls six feet over the heads of Winslow and Edwards and his infamous interceptions in the endzone. Since Savage and the Browns are so enamored with this medicore QB and plan to stick with him and reward him with contracts and money he doesn't deserve - then go ahead trade Brady and get some other guy to act as backup to "their" franchise QB.
BTW, Bill Livingston of the PD has an excellent column in this morning's paper talking about the possibility of another Browns' "folly".
Man, I can vividly remember DA frustrating the hell out of me all year. So much so that I often think the cockpit is ready for a more capable pilot. But it's comments like these that make me dislike Quinn and give vocal support to Anderson. My dislike is based on the same elements that probably make up your like - the throngs of superficial, jersey-selling, high-profile sentiments. Quinn has impressed in his limited time, but the mindset of those who are starry eyed for him repulse me.
For crying out loud, you're referring to your team as "they". As if they betrayed you for putting Quinn on the bench for one more year.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 468
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 468 |
You can say what you want in terms of the Browns and in that sense I agree with you....However , as an individual QB who wants to play this Anderson scenario has to bother Quinn , but as you say learning also takes place on the sidelines and given Quinn's need to get those snaps in 2009 , IF we have cleared up any QB Controversy this season , as it appears that we have by signing Anderson , we Definitely will have one heading into 2009....Having both this season is an asset and Anderson is just the Very Lucky Benefactor....Let' hope that he earns it ! ....
The Mammal
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,331 |
Quote:
His stats got worse as the season progressed. And he's never corrected the problems that I've seen since last year. That is my concern. And he looked AWFUL in the Pro Bowl. And that is with superstars playing all around him and soft coverage because they can't press. And he couldn't hit the side of a building.
While this post has come late, you need to stop bringing up DA in the probowl. Remember that DA won us a bunch of games and has improved Jamal's play because of team's need to play the deep ball. They couldn't crowd the box because they'd get beat deep, Jamal put up 1300 because of this IMO.
AND the Probowl, quit it. Different coaches, he hadn't played football in over in over a month. It's a fun game and has nothing to do with his ability in the regular season. He went all the way to Hawaii, may be he was jet-lagged. I really don't care whether or not he made it to the Pro-Bowl, and even more-so I really don't care how he played in the Pro-Bowl. Many of the guys don't really even try. Is that really a way you're going to evaluate him? Think that one over man. I mean, it's a VACATION meant to reward players for their play man! Nothing more.
UCONN HUSKIES 2014 Champions of Basketball
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
Quote:
Quote:
His stats got worse as the season progressed. And he's never corrected the problems that I've seen since last year. That is my concern. And he looked AWFUL in the Pro Bowl. And that is with superstars playing all around him and soft coverage because they can't press. And he couldn't hit the side of a building.
AND the Probowl, quit it. Different coaches, he hadn't played football in over in over a month. It's a fun game and has nothing to do with his ability in the regular season. He went all the way to Hawaii, may be he was jet-lagged. I really don't care whether or not he made it to the Pro-Bowl, and even more-so I really don't care how he played in the Pro-Bowl. Many of the guys don't really even try. Is that really a way you're going to evaluate him? Think that one over man. I mean, it's a VACATION meant to reward players for their play man! Nothing more.
You'd have to use those excuses for all the other quarterbacks. All of which easily outplayed him. It doesn't matter about "different coaches." An open reciever is an open receiver. You either hit him or you don't.
And he didn't. Many, many times.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,343
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,343 |
Quote:
The thread IS about the QB's, so I talked about them.
No it isn't about the QBs, but anyhow... have at it.
gmstrong -----------------
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quinn
|
|
