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Are you impling he was injuried in TC,and didn't heal until after week 17?
That's a looong time to be injured.
He was injured in the opener and was on the injury list every (or just about every) week. He was in and out of a boot for many weeks but continued to play.
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Which means they probably aren't going to replace Pool.
I didn't think they would, but I was sure was hoping they were.
We've upgraded the D, but this guy compromises schemes.
Maybe so, but we all know how much bettter a secondary look & plays when there is a pass rush.....an on paper we have one... 
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We are not touching our Safeties.... We have:
Pool, Jones, Sorensen, Adams, Baxter
We will add maybe two more corners though..
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I understand the point people continue to make about a pass rush and how it impacts coverage. However, I do think some put too much weight on that.
A football pass play is designed and intended to to be carried out in a time frame....this receiver runs a 5 yd cross, this one a 10 yard out, etc, etc. It isn't as if teams ran these routes with solid coverage against them for the first 3-4 seconds then the receivers ran out of room and started running something else, finally to catch the ball 8 seconds later running some ad lib pattern time after time.
Most of the time as I saw it the ball was being delivered on a normal cadence. And normal cadence is developed with the idea it can beat any teams pass rush.
Again, I am not saying a rush isn't important and doesn't disrupt that cadence. All I am saying is a better pass rush last year wouldn't have made certain players all of a sudden look like all-pros.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Are you impling he was injuried in TC,and didn't heal until after week 17?
That's a looong time to be injured.
No, I think he was injured in one of the first couple of games and never regained fully healthy status because of it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I understand the point people continue to make about a pass rush and how it impacts coverage. However, I do think some put too much weight on that.
You might be right, and your 100% correct on the points you make, but with that in mind, for a secondary or CB you want the reciever playing in front of you running those 5 yard curls, def. can use thier hands with in 5 yards, so they dont have to blanket them just get a push or shove off the line and get them off thier route or rythem, the def. back dosent need to intercept or knock the ball down, the ball simpley goes incomplete, and with a pass rush the Def. backs dont have to chase the reciever all over the field, all game. So yes maybe we do put too much weight in the fact, but it is a important fact we cant over look non-the less.
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Yes but our pass rush gave little for the opposing QBs to worry about, they had time to check all receivers, draw out success calculations, set their feet, pump fake 3-4 times, then throw.
With a good pass rushing line, you can take a second or 2 away from the QB, cause him to make his decisions quicker, and help force mistakes. A QB throwing from a pocket with a 6' diameter is more comfortable and accurate than a QB throwing from a pocket with a 3' diameter.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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We are not touching our Safeties.... We have:
Pool, Jones, Sorensen, Adams, Baxter
We just inked Sorensen for 3 years . . .
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=8265
Browns sign Sorensen
Jeff Walcoff, Staff Writer
03.04.2008
He might not be Derek Anderson or Jamal Lewis, but he's a key part of the Browns' special teams units -- and he, like Anderson and Lewis, is now locked up through the 2010 season.
Safety Nick Sorensen, who appeared in nine games for the Browns in 2007 after signing with the club on Oct. 24, signed a three-year contract with the team, the club announced Tuesday.
Sorensen finished fifth on the team last season with 14 special teams tackles.
"Nick joined us midseason last year and did an excellent job on special teams and also provided veteran leadership," Browns general manager Phil Savage said. "He will be a part of our core special teams unit and serve as a quality backup safety in our secondary."
Sorensen, 29, is an eight-year NFL veteran with 84 games of experience with St. Louis, Jacksonville and the Browns. Sorensen originally entered the NFL as an undrafted rookie free agent out of Virginia Tech.
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There are no small signings...just undersized cornerbacks.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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j/c
Any news on Blackstock??? I was hoping to come home from work and see the signing thread, but nothing........ (except for Rogers extention)
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It all starts on the line, peen... always has in football. Just ask Tom Brady.  Sure a cover corner helps a tonne, but point is, a weak pass rush is huge for an 'O'. A strong one can mean a lot to the secondary.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I understand the point people continue to make about a pass rush and how it impacts coverage. However, I do think some put too much weight on that.
Notice how all the premier corners in the league have a viable pass rush in front of them. Those that don't struggle mightly.
On the offense you depend on your line to give your quarterback time to make good decisions and allow enough time for your plays to develop.
On the defense you depend on your line, or front seven, to give their quarterback less time resulting in bad decisions and not enough time for their plays to develop.
The lines are the most important ingredient on both sides of the ball.
You know that.
On either side of the ball, a dominent line aids all the other positions. It is the point of attack. What is more important than the point of attack. If you win at the point of attack you've won the battle.
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j/c
Any news on Blackstock??? I was hoping to come home from work and see the signing thread, but nothing........ (except for Rogers extention)
I feel like we'll hear something today or tomorrow. Tuesday was his visit. Yesterday was his work out . . .
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You know that.
Yes, I do. That is why I said at the beginning I understood the point.
What about the points I made??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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A football pass play is designed and intended to to be carried out in a time frame....this receiver runs a 5 yd cross, this one a 10 yard out, etc, etc. It isn't as if teams ran these routes with solid coverage against them for the first 3-4 seconds then the receivers ran out of room and started running something else, finally to catch the ball 8 seconds later running some ad lib pattern time after time.
I believe that if the receiver is supposed to be hit at a certain spot and he cannot get open, then that's exactly what happens.
What else do they do? Get to their spot and stand there waiting?
We often hear about "coverage sacks" where the QB has no where to go with the ball and gets sacked as a result. We haven't gotten a lot of those from our defense. That's because when our corners are covering well enough to provide the time for a coverage sack, our defense can't get to the QB anyway. Sooner or later a receiver gets open and someone gets burned for a big play when it never should have come down to that.
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Most of the time as I saw it the ball was being delivered on a normal cadence. And normal cadence is developed with the idea it can beat any teams pass rush.
Again, I am not saying a rush isn't important and doesn't disrupt that cadence. All I am saying is a better pass rush last year wouldn't have made certain players all of a sudden look like all-pros.
No it wouldn't. You are right about that. A better pass rush would not make All-Pros out of them. But a better pass rush would have helped so that good players wouldn't have been made to look like crap.
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Marginal players are the ones who end up looking bad.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Bro, you are wrong on a couple of fronts here.
Champ Bailey is the best corner in the league and Denver doesn't have a pass rush. Guys like Clemmens have played w/Buffalo and SF and their pass rush is pretty bad.
Our secondary was hurt big time by the lack of pressure. That was a huge factor, but overall........they had issues of their own. Wright was a rook and got picked on. Bodden struggled last year. Pool is pathetic. Perhaps the worst starting FS in football. And Jones is not suited to playing in a two-deep system.
Yes, the primary reason for their struggles was the lack of a pass rush, but they have numerous issues of their own. And as long as Pool is back there, this D will have problems.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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i'm going to have to disagree with you about Pool...
Our defense is not the best... but last year they did improve some... They made some crucial stops last year that helped the Browns get a few W's.
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Bro, you are wrong on a couple of fronts here.
Well, there's a first time for everything.
Maybe alluding to premier DB's was a bit over the top, but would you say the basic premise of my post made sense?
* A lack of coverage sacks?
* Receivers getting open after the initial development of the play has passed yet the QB still has time to wait it out?
(How often do we remember it looking for all the world like we had someone stopped on third and long as the play certainly had to be over by now, yet they end up getting 14 on a 3rd and 13. How about the 23 on a 3rd and 22. Most of those plays weren't whan-bam, they took some serious time. To me, that is an indication that the QB is just getting too much time back there and our DB's, especially since their inexperienced, just can't cover that long.)
I hate being wrong. Yet it happens so often I'm developing a complex. I'd like to hear your input on those issues above.
I know our DB's are young and lacking experience. A pass rush up front does not equate experience 'round back. Wright a raw rook, Bodden playing injured all season, Pool lacking as well. Wright goes down for a few games so Holley and McDonald get more playing time.
Our DB's have a ways to go. But getting no help from the Front 7 sure is a tough way to gain experience and build confidence in my opinion. Regardless that none of our guys have reached premier status yet, some help in the form of pressure on the QB would go a long ways toward helping them along.
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Well, there's a first time for everything.
Well, you are still way ahead of most of us. 
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Maybe alluding to premier DB's was a bit over the top, but would you say the basic premise of my post made sense?
Most of it.
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* A lack of coverage sacks?
Our pass rush was one of the worst, if not the worst, in the league. We gave QBs way too much time to throw.
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* Receivers getting open after the initial development of the play has passed yet the QB still has time to wait it out?
Yes, it happened all the time. It was nauseating.
However:
---our DBs got burned all on their own too.
---Pool's inability to play the deep middle and lack of instincts on reading routes caused our pass rush to suffer. We dropped way too many men in coverage way too many times. We knew he needed help. We also went to playing a two-deep a lot, because Pool could not do what Russell---a mediocre safety--could do.
--our inexperience showed quite often. They should get better w/the experience they gained last year, but I don't know if they are good enough. I think we need to bring in a veteran corner, which could happen. And we need a new FS, which I doubt will happen.
ddubia, the pass rush was terrible. We didn't have enough guys who could get to the qb. However, part of that was a direct result of Pool's ineptitude. The other part is that they were just awful at rushing the qb.
I think we will improve quite a bit on defense, but I don't think having better defensive linemen are going to transform our secondary into a good unit. And I surely don't think they will benefit as much as you seem to think they will.
Of course, I could be wrong about that. And you could very well be right. We'll see. Although, I actually hope we don't see..........because I am hoping that we get another OLB who will provide even more pressure and a veteran corner who will make our argument moot. I also hope, even though I doubt it will happen, that we get a real NFL safety who knows how to play the game and has good instincts. The FS is very important to a defense. He should be the smartest guy on that side of the field. He should know what is coming and he should be in position to make plays. Pool's got the talent, but I don't think he has the instincts and the football smarts. I pray he proves me wrong. Who knows, maybe it will all click for him this year. Let's just say I am not holding my breath.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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