|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 563
All Pro
|
All Pro
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 563 |
Quote:
You have such a positive outlook on everything. 
I suppose now you consider it child abuse to send kids to public schools.
Close to it. I went to public school, and look how stupid I turned out. Don't you wish my parents has spent more time with me?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,952
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,952 |
Ah, I don't know. I bet your parents tried, but gave up after a while. I don't blame them. Course, you probably do.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 563
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 563 |
Quote:
Ah, I don't know. I bet your parents tried, but gave up after a while. I don't blame them. Course, you probably do.
My Dad is one of the most amazing human beings I know. I'm nothing like him. He wouldn't waste 2 seconds arguing with the brick walls on this board like I do.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
... so you are saying, yes he gave up? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 563
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 563 |
LIke I said, he's a better man than me. He'll never give up on his son.
And now, out of respect for the man, I'm going to cease discussing him or responding to anyone's opinion of my parents.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,952
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,952 |
It's really not my opinion of your parents - it's my opinion of you. And, dare I say, basically this whole boards opinion of you. But, keep on posting.
I need a good laugh.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Quote:
I dont' think it's the kids that are stupid, or the teachers, or the system. I think it's us parents that are stupid. We are complacent to remain ignorant ourselves, and expect someone else to teach our kids for us.
And, unforunately, many of the parents who want to spend more time teaching their kids have to work too many hours because of how crappy our economy is.
I wasn't saying the kids are stupid, I was stating the facts that some kids are smart, some are not so smart and most are in the middle, but that the typical way to deal with the median is to lower the standards to the lowest common denominator so that no one is left feeling less than anyone else.
But in real life, we are not all equal, and the sooner in life they realize that, the sooner they can find their place and their calling, and work to excel at something.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
Kids are smarter than ever now days, there not dumber..... Problem is thier LAZY...dont matter how smart or dumb you are is how you use it, a rhodes scholor & a 5th grader achive the same thing when planted infront of the TV....NOTHING....kids are smart it's just getting them up off thier lazy behinds & do something thats the problem. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 520
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 520 |
I'm not too big into TV is making us dumber argument. They said the same thing about books hundreds of years ago. Too me its more our culture and content that surrounds us.
I think its largely due to the culture we live in now... the culture where its cool to talk like a moron, culture that shows no respect to authority, culture that exemplifies the mighty dollar and the next ho they can lay, culture with the me first attitude, culture in my eyes that is just anti-american.
Our whole system is a$% backwards.. we pay entertainment figures millions of dollars and teachers and police 30,000. Anybody read the recent Parade magazine showing what some of these celebrities make a year in comparison to regular Joe/Jane Schmoe. Its ludicrous. They put a pre-school teacher (18,000) next to Miley Cyrus (18.2 million) ... I hope these celebrities/athletes are ashamed. But the sad part is I know they won't be. There should be a cap on what someone makes a year... the rest should go to the American govt or the persons charity/company/etc. of choice. Shouldn't make more than 2 million a year. If you can't live on that then get our of my country because your a jack a#@. We can do without you.
I could write a book about the ever degrading American society. It wouldn't be very good because I'm not a good writer. I tend to bounce all over, as you can see.
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 520
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 520 |
Then how do you hold these schools accountable? Do you just let 50% of the class fail a test that they should be passing according to their peers. There is nothing wrong with testing. Some do better on tests than others, and some to better in the real world than on tests. But there has to be a way to make sure every child in America has a chance to recieve good education.
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
Shouldn't make more than 2 million a year. If you can't live on that then get our of my country because your a jack a#@. We can do without you.
Then it wouldn't be your country anymore.. it would be Stalins.
Not that I totally disagree with the concept of your post.. I just think you went a tad bit far...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,664
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,664 |
Quote:
Kids are smarter than ever now days, there not dumber.....
Problem is thier LAZY...dont matter how smart or dumb you are is how you use it, a rhodes scholor & a 5th grader achive the same thing when planted infront of the TV....NOTHING....kids are smart it's just getting them up off thier lazy behinds & do something thats the problem.
I agree.
We do a pretty good job of teaching book stuff....we do a poor job of teaching how to apply the knowledge through initiative and hard work.
I had a job as a 14-15 year old picking tomato's in a hothouse one summer.
When I was sweating my ass off crawling those rows on hands and knees looking for tomato's that were just starting to show the slightest amount of pink for picking...I didn't think I was learning anything, but in retrospect, I learned a whole lot that summer.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 520
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 520 |
Well thats why I said they could give it to a company, charity, person, etc... Is still a bit Stalin like but at least we're giving them a choice 
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
Quote:
Then how do you hold these schools accountable? Do you just let 50% of the class fail a test that they should be passing according to their peers. There is nothing wrong with testing. Some do better on tests than others, and some to better in the real world than on tests. But there has to be a way to make sure every child in America has a chance to recieve good education.
I think you went back a ways to respond to me since I haven't been watching this thread. FTR, I never said there was anything wrong with testing. What's wrong is that teachers have no choice but to teach to the tests. Not much room for REAL teaching when that happens.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
We do a pretty good job of teaching book stuff....we do a poor job of teaching how to apply the knowledge through initiative and hard work.
Thank you Peen, thank you for saying WE and not THEY. It's not the kids, the kids are who we made them.
Let me ask you... that summer you were 14. If you had been given the choice:
a. You can go work in a hothouse picking tomatoes for $.25/hour crawling around, sweating your butt off just so you could have a little spending money..
or
b. Sit inside, play your X-box, load up your i-pod, watch television, talk to your friends on your cell phone, and your parents would have still paid for you to go to the movies, taken you to your friends house, taken you to the pool, taken you to the beach and given you the money you need to do all those things...
What would you have done?
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,664
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,664 |
Televisions were the new thing then  I don't know..I guess times were different...I wanted to buy my granddaddy's 52 Dodge pick-up...and that is were I was going to make a good portion of the $350 he wanted. I think I made just at $300 that summer...about $25-30 a week..... But yes.....being out playing baseball or fishing for catfish on the river would have been a whole lot more enjoyable...but I wanted the truck.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
Quote:
I had a job as a 14-15 year old picking tomato's in a hothouse one summer.
I didn't know you were an illegal immigrant. Because you know, only illegal immigrants will pick tomatoes, Americans won't do that job. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 520
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 520 |
I gotcha now... if whats on the test isn't important to that child then it shouldn't be on the test. I'd say its not the tests... but more the test makers.
Just got kind of a wacky idea of how to test for this... Why not make a test that teaches and then tests on what's taught. For instance...
For an hour sit down and read/watch/listen this... give the teacher another hour to field any questions on it. Then test them on it. Test the childs ability to be taught and then correlate that to the students grades. I would think that would be more benificial. That would show you the child that has the ability but is not being stimulated.
Don't know just an idea.... prob not a good one.
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,664
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,664 |
Even then it was largely true....but this was maybe 1962.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
If I recall correctly, when I was in school, we learned things then on Friday we took a test on the subject. A test the teacher prepared based on what was taught. Sometimes if a large portion of the class did poorly on the test we would spend a couple days or more in the next week continuing on the same subject before moving on.
Every few years we would take the CAT tests. We weren't taught based on the test coming up, it was more of test to see how we were doing in comparison to other schools in the state, nation, etc. It had no bearing on whether or not we passed that grade or were held back, or how much funding the school received.
Now a days it seems everything is centered around the state tests.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 51,023
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 51,023 |
IMHO, there is nothing wrong with "teaching to the tests" ....... because quite frankly, all of life is a test, and many kids today have no chance at passing that test either.
Teachers whio want their students to pass their class "teach to the tests" that they will give those same students. It makes no sense to test on material not taught.
State tests set a minimum standard ....... and if schools can't successfully teach to a minimum standard, the whole systen needs torn down and rebuilt into a system than can.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,144
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 12,144 |
Quote:
I think you went back a ways to respond to me since I haven't been watching this thread. FTR, I never said there was anything wrong with testing. What's wrong is that teachers have no choice but to teach to the tests. Not much room for REAL teaching when that happens.
Amen Michelle. Some of my son's teachers are very stressed out because of the state achievement tests they are taking this week. They get so worried about kids passing tests that they teach for them for at least two weeks before hand.
When we went on vacation over Easter Nicholas had to miss three days (he missed three more the week before due to illness) and his teacher told him that she hopes he will be able to pass his achievement tests. That really bothered him. His teacher knows that his class was 3rd in the state on their scores last year, and she knows Nicholas is at the top of his class. I don't think she made the comment to be mean, just that she is stressed out.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,955 |
My point is that teaching to the tests leaves little time for deviation when students have other questions surrounding a subject.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,224
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,224 |
j/c
Tests should reflect what is taught, not the other way around. I dont necessarily disagree with standardized testing, but teaching to the test should be unnecessary if the school is teaching at the proper level.
Last edited by Draftdayz; 04/24/08 01:42 PM.
There are no sacred cows.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
That's why I'm for privatization of schools. There's no need for standardize tests, when the "results" will be determined by which schools parents decide to put thier kids in.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,664
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,664 |
The problem is private schools skim off many of the best students and best teachers. Nearly any teacher would welcome a job offer from a private school.
When I was a kid, nearly everybody went to the public school except the Catholic kids.
Today, there are numerous options for private schooling. There have always been the super private schools that catered to the rick parents....today, there are many schools that are set up to skim the next level of student.....leaving the publics with a bunch of students who's parents have little time or desire to reinforce the learning experience received at school back at home.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,664
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,664 |
Quote:
That's why I'm for privatization of schools. There's no need for standardize tests, when the "results" will be determined by which schools parents decide to put thier kids in.
As in my last post.....it is really at that point now.
All the private school have some form of admission testing, and the parents usually need to go for an interview as well.
Nobody I know of isn't allowed into a public school because they didn't pass some test or their parents didn't say the right things at some interview.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
Quote:
We do a pretty good job of teaching book stuff....we do a poor job of teaching how to apply the knowledge through initiative and hard work.
I'll agree with this, but I will add that we don't teaching how to question 'why?'. There's the old saying that 'he who knows how will always work for he who knows why'. I don't think that saying is representative to what I'm trying to say, but there's truth in it...
A trend in see in high school is the idea of education as a means to make the status quo...if you're going to work in the mill, just hit these numbers and if you want to go to college, just hit these numbers...
A trend I see everywhere is the idea of a higher education as a means to make money. Certainly, that's a big goal, but I see more and more kids coasting through school studying 'business' without an aim or a goal but finding a decent paycheck after graduation. They end up bland, vapid cogs destined for a place in middle management. I almost think education has become a factory producing people who wear blinders and chase paychecks.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Phil, I believe you are pretty much correct. When I went to college, back in the Johnson administration,  ... I graduated in business and neither Maryland or any other college I looked at had any classes in entrepreneurship... nothing on how to market an idea or start a company or any of that... tons of classes on how to market somebody elses idea, invest somebody elses money, do somebody elses accounting, manage somebody elses HR... but nada, zip, zilch on how to branch out on your own... So when you say they train you for middle management, I'd say that about hits the nail on the head.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,224
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,224 |
Quote:
A trend I see everywhere is the idea of a higher education as a means to make money. Certainly, that's a big goal, but I see more and more kids coasting through school studying 'business' without an aim or a goal but finding a decent paycheck after graduation. They end up bland, vapid cogs destined for a place in middle management. I almost think education has become a factory producing people who wear blinders and chase paychecks.
I hate that ... Business majors get paid 30-40 grand right out of college. How much does a biologist or chemist or pretty much any other science job get? 20grand per year with no upward movement. Well, thats how it is in NEO anyways ... west coast is a bit better. Personal problem, i know
There are no sacred cows.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Is America getting dumber?
|
|
