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Keep denying the truth, Phil. The intelligence reports are public knowledge and you refuse to accept that they were there. Of course, yourr revisionist history will never change, but neither will the facts.
And Phil has REPEATIDLY SHOWN YOU that the MAJORITY of intelligence reports REFUTED those you seem to cling to.
And your ramblings won't change that either.
One such report came from the U.N. inspectors who were actually THERE doing the inspections THEMSELVES, instead of some mysterious man with his own agenda.
But even the facts and the truth won't change your mind. No matter what "reality is", you'll still cling to the falsehoods perpitrated by this administration. Nothing new there..........
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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JC, I know this is a little off topic, but I wanted to add something. I work with an Iraqi American, who lives in the US but still has family in Iraq. Talking to him gave me a new prospective on the war, and I thought I would share his views. His personal feelings are that he would much rather see Saddam in power than the current mess that is Iraq. He did admit that Saddam needed to go, not because of WMD, but because of humanitarian reasons. However the war was so mismanaged he would gladly go back to saddam rule. According to him, there was at least order in Irag before the invasion. You knew that as long as you kept your head down and did not talk politics you would be fine. He admits it is not ideal, but it is much better situation than we currently have. He personally does not think that the surge is working. He thinks that the reason the secretarian violence has gone down is that most of the neighborhoods have been ethnically cleansed. Once your neighborhood is ethnically cleansed there is going to be a whole lot less killing. It has been mass chaos with band of mercenaries running the street. A lot of times if they did not like you they would show up at your house and leave a note saying that you have to leave or ….. Most of his family has had to leave what they had and flee. One of the problems he foresees is when the displaced refugees are forced to return to their homes and demand what is rightfully their property. He also states that none of this Fighting between the religious groups was present before we came into Iraq. No one really cared if you were Shiite or Sunni. He has mixed religion relatives. He blames most of the infighting on Al quida, who he says was not in Iraq before the war. They did a lot of playing both sides against each other. Killing Shiites and blaming it on Sunnis and vice versa. His current view is that America should withdraw from Iraq, as he believes there is no way for the country to get much worse, and does not think that there is a chance that Iraq will stabilize with America occupying it. Our army is seen too much as the enemy now and will not be able to help. I just thought I would share his views, as I found them quite interesting. One last thought, as an American and Iraqi. He found the loss of so many American soldiers sad, but he is equally affected by the loss of so many Iraqi’s as well. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From talking to him, the last point is what stuck out to me; we really need to keep in mind is that we need to stop being just concerned about the American losses, but also the Iraqi losses as well. What a tragedy this war is. 
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Keep denying the truth, Phil. The intelligence reports are public knowledge and you refuse to accept that they were there. Of course, yourr revisionist history will never change, but neither will the facts.
Could you please provide us with the names of the agencies and links to these reports?
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Keep denying the truth, Phil. The intelligence reports are public knowledge and you refuse to accept that they were there. Of course, yourr revisionist history will never change, but neither will the facts.
No, coachb...intelligence reports are not "public knowledge".
The only intelligence reports that are public knowledge are the ones that the administration agree to declassify.
Do you really believe any administration or intell agency is going to make intell reports, "public knowledge"?
The only intell reports that are made public are the ones our government want you to see, therefore, much of what we get is leaked "portions" of intell reports that the administration wants the public to know about.
If one has a mind that is not dedicated to "follow" but a mind that is inquisitive and willing to dedicate some time trying to figure out the "why" and "how", you might be able to challenge your own common sense.
But then again, maybe not...much easier to just digest what is regurgitated, if you like the taste.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Keep denying the truth, Phil. The intelligence reports are public knowledge and you refuse to accept that they were there. Of course, yourr revisionist history will never change, but neither will the facts.
Could you please provide us with the names of the agencies and links to these reports?
Good luck with that!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Not off topic at all. Thanks for sharing that perspective.
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What is sad is you are basing your inflammatory remarks on groundless accusations. We had just been attacked by terrorists and 3 INDEPENDANT intellegience agencies reported Iraq had WMDs. My family members went and fought to protect this country from another attack. They gave their lives to ensure your safety. Then you spout groundless accusations about the reason for the war that disrespects their sacrifice. As I told mac, I'd prefer you say thank you and take off the tin foil hat you wear as you type yoiur nonsense.
coachb...I did not realize you have lost a son and/or a daughter in the Iraq war...my condolences to you and your wife for your loss.
You do not agree with my opinion, which is fine, but your support for our soldiers does not exceed mine, friend. I'm not going to get into a "mine is bigger than yours" contest of who is more patriotic or who supports our soldiers more...but I will say, you are flat out wrong to make such suggestions.
How much reading have you done, coachb?
...OR...is your mind closed to learning anything new concerning the "facts" as to how we got where we are today, in Iraq?
Please, open your mind and allow your brain to think...this is a good place to start as the source of this information is a retired USAF LtCol.
web page
I strongly suggest you read the articles I have linked above...mac
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Thanks for posting that article... it helps in understanding why? Watched a pretty good progam on WQLN local access tv here in Erie called Frontline: Bush's War. It went into great detail about what was happening behind the scenes to represent this false fear to us. But it left holes in why Bush and Cheney felt the need to go to war. The three that she outlines in the article make alot more sense then what I was coming up with in my head. I thought maybe Hussein dissed W's daddy or something  . At least in they're minds it was strategic. I'm just not sure the oil strategy was for the good of the US and not they're own pockets. But honestyl, in my opinion we're going to have wait and see... we have to see it through now. It was a gutsy call be a guy I don't like and didn't vote for. If it turns out to be one of our biggest blunders he's going to go down in history as the worst president ever... if by some miracle we stabalize Iraq and squeeze some money into the US economy then it will go down as a good call by a good president. I just wish we'd get someone in there that took the stance of a JFK with getting to the moon. Someone that said we're getting off of the dependence of oil in the next 10 years no matter what.
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
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Are you really defending Fletch's point that people who drive SUVs are funding terrorists?
yes
Well if using oil makes you a terrorist then I suggest you throw your pc out, your clothes, anything that has plastic..cuz guess what it's all made from petroleum. Oh and I guess you don't drive a car, do you ride a bike or walk?
Look In the mirror before you startng throwing stones.
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The people we are "liberating" don't want us there. Remember the parades in WWII that Bush thought we'd see in Iraq. yeah, still waiting for that footage to get here.
How do you know this? Have you been over there and talked with a normal lraq citizen? Or do you just accept what you hear a news commentator has to say on the subject?
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Iraq wasn't a threat to it's neighbors. When they attacked Kuwait, we responded. That's the last time tehy attacked someone. The Nazis wanted to take over the world.
Right I forgot, Saddam just wanted or had WMD's to to kill his own people...and he sure didnt want to harm the U.S. Because after all if we lave them alone they'll leave us alone.
And I love that people just assume since we didnt find WMD's, they werent there....right, like its not possible for a military run country to hide or transport a few missles?
Personally I don;t beleive that Saddam had the missles, but he was close and would have used it on us or Israel asap, would could have triggered a world conflict.
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difference number 4. The rest of the world acknowledges that this is wrong
I guess this shows how out of touch you are and so many are? Why the heck do we care what the world thinks? 95% of world is run by evil dictators or crime syndicates! The day the U.S. truly cares, not just diplomatically, what the world thinks..the very core beliefs of the country will finally be gone past what they have already sunk down.
Whether people like it or not with great power comes great responsibility.
Whether we like it or not we are the kinfg of the hill, and until we aren't everyone especially radical muslim terrorist will never rest until every american is dead and thats not me talking thats straight from their mouths.
Whether we like it or not we have to police the World or what happened in 1939 will happen again. The UN might be the most worthless group of human beings on the earth.
This crap of be-littling the U.S. for the war on Iraq is so sad, it just shows again what our country is like today.
#1 reason people are upset, money, this might be taking a few bucks from their pocket.
People want to use the rights we have while bashing the resources that give them the right to be sitting at a PC typing on a PC, in the free. Why because people are run by the media today instead of common sense or any kind of sense.
What a ridiculous thread..
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I guess this shows how out of touch you are and so many are? Why the heck do we care what the world thinks? 95% of world is run by evil dictators or crime syndicates! The day the U.S. truly cares, not just diplomatically, what the world thinks..the very core beliefs of the country will finally be gone past what they have already sunk down.
We should care, we have to share the planet with them, and 95% is a little extreme don't you think? If it were 95%, the world would be a much more harsh place than it is now.
Whether people like it or not with great power comes great responsibility.
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Whether we like it or not we are the kinfg of the hill, and until we aren't everyone especially radical muslim terrorist will never rest until every american is dead and thats not me talking thats straight from their mouths.
Partially true, and I'm all for the hunt for Bin Laden in Afghanistan, and I'm all for helping the people in Iraq get democracy, IF, they want it. They didn't ask for us to come liberate them, we just decided to take it upon ourselves to do so.
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Whether we like it or not we have to police the World or what happened in 1939 will happen again. The UN might be the most worthless group of human beings on the earth.
We are the self appointed "police" and I believe if we didn't stick our nose in everyone else's business, those "radical muslim's" wouldn't hate us so much, I don't see them attacking Japan, China, Russia, Africa. No, mainly they focus on the superpowers that tend to try to push thier ideals on everyone else.
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This crap of be-littling the U.S. for the war on Iraq is so sad, it just shows again what our country is like today.
I don't see how opposing the war is belittling the US. Yes we disagree with it, and yes we feel we should not even be there, but I support the soldiers themselves, and I still would stand up for this country in time of need.
Luckily, I have those freedoms to express my disagreements. And I think those that served would be appalled if we all just went along with everything rather than voicing our opinions, that's what they were fighting for.
Without opposing views, our leaders would be off doing only God knows what.
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#1 reason people are upset, money, this might be taking a few bucks from their pocket.
Honestly, the war isn't taking any money from my pocket except in gasoline prices. But it is affecting our future financial situation as a country. And that I am concerned about, especially since I didn't think Iraq was really a major threat to us at the time. I still believed we could have dealt with it diplomatically.
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People want to use the rights we have while bashing the resources that give them the right to be sitting at a PC typing on a PC, in the free. Why because people are run by the media today instead of common sense or any kind of sense.
The soldiers gave us those rights, not the suits in Washington DC. I don't think anyone is bashing the soldiers.
Must be nice to be so high and mighty to tell your fellow citizens, they don't have the right to disagree with the way things have been done. Guess those rights are only afforded to you if you agree with Washington's policies.
Kinda makes you wonder "what's the point?"
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Right I forgot, Saddam just wanted or had WMD's to to kill his own people...and he sure didnt want to harm the U.S. Because after all if we lave them alone they'll leave us alone.
Saddam Hussein did not want to harm the U.S. He wanted desperately to get back into their good graces. They were at one point his biggest ally and a huge monetary support. It's the reason he was a kitten after the first Gulf War...he attempted a delicate balancing act of complying with the U.S. and shielding that compliance from Iran and Israel.
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And I love that people just assume since we didnt find WMD's, they werent there....right, like its not possible for a military run country to hide or transport a few missles?
They weren't. His weapons programs were dismantled in the early nineties and never revived. He hoped to revive them one day, but he never got out from under the sanctions.
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Personally I don;t beleive that Saddam had the missles, but he was close and would have used it on us or Israel asap, would could have triggered a world conflict.
He was never near close. And if he did obtain them, Iran would've been his target.
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#1 reason people are upset, money, this might be taking a few bucks from their pocket.
Actually, I think most people's #1 is that it was entirely unnecessary.
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There is a big difference between driving a car that is fuel efficient, and driving a hummer that serves no purpose whatsoever except to make you feel like you're better than other people. I see people driving Hummers who never leave the city limits. They use 5-8 more times fuel than other cars on the road. There is no point to it, and it keeps us dependent on foreign oil, and that sponsors terrorism.
I do the best I can, I the budget i have. I walk or use my roller blades when It's not to far, or I take a motorcycle that gets 50 mi to the gallon. As soon as i can afford an electric car, I'll get one. If you drive a hummer, you're not doing the best you can.
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The people we are "liberating" don't want us there. Remember the parades in WWII that Bush thought we'd see in Iraq. yeah, still waiting for that footage to get here.
How do you know this? Have you been over there and talked with a normal lraq citizen? Or do you just accept what you hear a news commentator has to say on the subject?
Oh, so YOU have been talking to the average Iraqi citizen. or do you just except what the government tells you and refuse to believe anything different?
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And I love that people just assume since we didnt find WMD's, they werent there....right, like its not possible for a military run country to hide or transport a few missles?
That comment is utterly laughable. Your mindless support of this administration is baffling.
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Personally I don;t beleive that Saddam had the missles, but he was close and would have used it on us or Israel asap, would could have triggered a world conflict.
You mean like the last time he did that, and the world had a coalition and shut him down in a week? world conflict, my butt. If he attacked israel, he'd have been overthrown in a second, and with the world support, and not nearly as much of a mess to clean up afterwards.
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Why the heck do we care what the world thinks?
That, right there, is the kind of thinking that will eventually doom this country. You know why we should care what the rest of the world thinks? Because we share the world with them. We are not invincible. Might does not equal right. And that kind of arrogance is what gets us into stupid wars like this one.
Your ideas are a disgrace to everything good about America. You're not a patriot, you're a mindless ideagogue that's keeping America from being as great as it can be. People who think like you are the bane of our nation, and this unquestioning loyalty to this administration is completely inopposite to the spirit and words of our founding fathers, and a disgrace to the everything they stood for. If you really believe what you said, you are the worst kind of American. Absolutely pathetic.
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So we should let the rest of the world dictate the decisions we make so we don't hurt their feelings?
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There is a big difference between driving a car that is fuel efficient, and driving a hummer that serves no purpose whatsoever except to make you feel like you're better than other people. I see people driving Hummers who never leave the city limits. They use 5-8 more times fuel than other cars on the road. There is no point to it, and it keeps us dependent on foreign oil, and that sponsors terrorism.
I do the best I can, I the budget i have. I walk or use my roller blades when It's not to far, or I take a motorcycle that gets 50 mi to the gallon. As soon as i can afford an electric car, I'll get one. If you drive a hummer, you're not doing the best you can.
My hummer gets 15 mpg with our normal driving habits. Now, how many cars out there get 5 to 8 times that? (that would be 75 to 120 mpg - there aren't any - you exaggerated). Granted, we have an H3. I have an uncle with an H2 - he gets 12 mpg.....5 to 8 times that is 60 to 86 mpg. How many cars do that?
You drive a motorcycle that gets 50 mpg. (why don't you drive one of the cars that gets 5 to 8 times the fuel mileage of a hummer?  ) - the motorcycle is great...until you have an accident and your injuries increase my health insurance. 
Electric cars are great. Except most of the electricity comes from coal plants - so they actually pollute more than gas cars, some people say.
See, it all depends on which angle you are taking. There are plusses and minuses to everything. You attack suv drivers and use yourself as a "good" example, but you are only looking at 1 aspect. When all aspects are thrown in, maybe you aren't as green as you think.
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There is a big difference between driving a car that is fuel efficient, and driving a hummer that serves no purpose whatsoever except to make you feel like you're better than other people. I see people driving Hummers who never leave the city limits. They use 5-8 more times fuel than other cars on the road. There is no point to it, and it keeps us dependent on foreign oil, and that sponsors terrorism.
I do the best I can, I the budget i have. I walk or use my roller blades when It's not to far, or I take a motorcycle that gets 50 mi to the gallon. As soon as i can afford an electric car, I'll get one. If you drive a hummer, you're not doing the best you can.
My hummer gets 15 mpg with our normal driving habits. Now, how many cars out there get 5 to 8 times that? (that would be 75 to 120 mpg - there aren't any - you exaggerated). Granted, we have an H3. I have an uncle with an H2 - he gets 12 mpg.....5 to 8 times that is 60 to 86 mpg. How many cars do that?
You drive a motorcycle that gets 50 mpg. (why don't you drive one of the cars that gets 5 to 8 times the fuel mileage of a hummer? ) - the motorcycle is great...until you have an accident and your injuries increase my health insurance.
Electric cars are great. Except most of the electricity comes from coal plants - so they actually pollute more than gas cars, some people say.
See, it all depends on which angle you are taking. There are plusses and minuses to everything. You attack suv drivers and use yourself as a "good" example, but you are only looking at 1 aspect. When all aspects are thrown in, maybe you aren't as green as you think.
I don't drive a car that gets 60mpg because I can't afford one. When I can, I'm going to. My motorcycle cost 500 bucks. My car has 300k miles on it and is paid. it's the best i can do. If you can afford a hummer, however, you can afford a much more fuel efficient car as well.
i was basing 5-8 times on the Hummer that gets 7 mpg. That's the information i had. I didnt' even know they could get 15. so I didn't exaggerate. And there are cars that can get 75mpg.
My motorcycle accident doesn't increase your insurance. I paid for everything. What about your hummer wrecks? They do a lot more damage than my bike.
Coal pollutes as well, but electric is better for the environment because of the amount of electricity it takes per mile, as opposed to combustion engines.
There is no reason, besides the military, to own a Hummer. None whatsoever. They are not stronger than trucks, they are not better for bad weather or offroad than a jeep cherokee, they dont' have more room than a minivan or hybrid SUV, they're not safer than cars. They offer nothing but "status." Find another way to compensate for lack of manhood, but don't drive a hummer. They are useless, take up more space, pollute more, make accidents worse, and cause more accidents. Tell me your vehicle needs and there is a vehicle out there that fits your needs better than a Hummer and is more fuel efficient.
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So we should let the rest of the world dictate the decisions we make so we don't hurt their feelings?
Now really, is that what I said? Please quote my response and tell me where I said we should let the rest of the world dictate our decisions so we don't hurt their feelings. Seriously, that's the best you can do?
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But you see arch, what he was referring to (if you read through the thread) were people "who never leave the city limits". You know, city dwellars who have "no actual, reasonable reason or need" to own a Hummer. And in their cases, city driving would drasticly reduce that fuel mileage, would it not? See, from my understanding you live in a very rural area. With the weather and possible emergencies, a Hummer "makes far more sense" than the situation he pretty much spelled out. I do believe it's foolish and very wastefull for "city/suburbia" people to drive Hummers. However, it's well within their rights to do so. But IMO, they're choosing to help add to the problem, instead of trying to help be part of the solution. While you may get 8-10 MPH in the city with a Hummer, there are LOTS of models to choose from that get 30+ in the city. So they are "choosing" to waste three times the gas in a situation that it's really uncalled for. In your situation, as I stated earlier, having such a vehicle makes far more sense. We may not agree on a lot of things, but I've never taken you to be naive or foolish. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I own a 06 Mustang GT, I get about 18mpg city. gas isn't killing me, but I would like something more efficient, but at the same time, I love my car, I love driving it. now that being said, there is a company that makes an electric conversion for my car, that actually includes a 600hp Motor and 1000ftlbs of torque. But it's a $60k conversion. But I am hoping that in 3 years or so when my mileage starts to get in the area where a replacement or heavy repairs needs to be considered, that the conversion will be more in line with a cheap car. Then I'll do it.  I think that would be awesome, you wouldn't hear me coming, but I would zoom on by. 0-60 in under 4 secs.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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But you see arch, what he was referring to (if you read through the thread) were people "who never leave the city limits". You know, city dwellars who have "no actual, reasonable reason or need" to own a Hummer. And in their cases, city driving would drasticly reduce that fuel mileage, would it not?
Your point is well taken, and living in LA, all the Hummers pulled up to clubs and getting valet parked drives me nuts. However, in regards to Hummers specifically, I don't think there is any reason at all to own one. They are incredibly inefficient vehicles. The only thing they are good for, is driving off road while withstanding enemy fire. So if we're allowed to shoot at them, I probably wouldn't mind them as much.
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Well I grew up in a pretty rural area myself. We usually kept a four wheel drive vehicle. And yes, we needed it.
Now I won't say they were of the "Hummer" variety, but we used them to haul wood, help pull small stumps, haul straw,etc.... And in the winters, there would have been many times, especially in 1978, where we simply could not have "safely" gotten around for days without a four wheel drive.
But as for a work vehicle, I have driven Ford Rangers since the 90's. Not GREAT gas mileage, but that is about the smallest vehicle I could use to haul all of my tools.
So I do try to be "practical", but I believe Arch lives in a VERY rural area and has children. If I were in his shoes, I believe I would want a "top notch" four wheel drive vehicle. If for nothing else, the winter time. If it were within my means and I had children, I would almost consider it my duty for winter emergencies. In dire conditions, I wouldn't want to have to wait on an ambulance.
And I can't speak for Arch, but from what I have gathered over the years, his family is priority #1.....................
Can't say I blame him.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Thanks pit - family IS #1. Also, for anyone interested - the H3 is my wife's - I get to drive it to church on Sunday. My car is a 94 Bonneville (145,000). And job, when I mentioned something about a motorcycle accident I had no idea you had actually had one. I was trying to show that everything can have good and bad connotations, depending on one's view. (another example: your car with 300,000 miles on it - apparently you aren't helping our economy.  - smokers - pay a ton of taxes - that's good. People complain about the cost of health insurance because of them - that's bad. See where I was coming from? Or how about bio fuels - good because they are renewable, bad because they raise the price of food AND it takes more gallons of fuel to produce than we get out of it.
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I do see your point. My point is just that the hummer is likely not the best choice for your wife's needs. There are many more 4 wheel drive vehicles that are better designed for Ohio weather and safer than a Hummer. That's why I say there is no reason to own one. They're not practical vehicles.
Biofuels are retarded, imho. I dont' know why we refuse to use technology we already have with electric and solar powered cars. There are cars that get 150 mpg. Why don't we improve that technology already available instead of trying to come up with new stuff?
I don't think food prices would go up much anyway. My thought is that much of food costs have to do with transporting them across the country - based on the price of oil. Plus, we have more than enough land to produce biofuel and not make much of a dent in food needs. But I guess we'll see.
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Legend
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Quote:
I do see your point. My point is just that the hummer is likely not the best choice for your wife's needs. There are many more 4 wheel drive vehicles that are better designed for Ohio weather and safer than a Hummer. That's why I say there is no reason to own one. They're not practical vehicles.
If that's how you feel, I would suggest you not buy a Hummer.
However, we didn't buy it JUST for the Ohio weather. We didn't buy it because it was safer or less safe than other vehicles. What, exactly, is impractical about it?
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Less interior space - for people and for cargo. Too heavy, so you can't tow as much. Too heavy, so you can't stop as fast. Not fuel efficient. Accidents more lethal, more likely to get in accident. Bigger blind spots, less overall visibility. Expensive to fix. Lower dependability.
I'd be that a four wheel drive mazda minivan, an all wheel drive subaru forester, a small truck, or a jeep, would better suit your wife's needs, unless she has to constantly drive up 45 degree angles under sniper fire.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080401/ap_on_go_co/congress_oilH. JOSEF HEBERT, Associated Press Writer 3 minutes ago WASHINGTON - Top executives of the five biggest U.S. oil companies were pressed Tuesday to explain the soaring fuel prices amid huge industry profits and why they weren't investing more to develop renewable energy source such as wind and solar. ADVERTISEMENT The executives, peppered with questions from skeptical lawmakers, said they understood that high energy costs are hurting consumers, but deflected blame, arguing that their profits — $123 billion last year — were in line with other industries. "On April Fool's Day, the biggest joke of all is being played on American families by Big Oil," Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass., said as his committee began hearing from the oil company executives. With motorists paying a national average of $3.29 a gallon at the pump and global oil prices remaining above $100 a barrel, the executives were hard pressed by lawmakers to defend their profits. "The anger level is rising significantly," said Rep. Emanuel Cleaver, D-Mo., relating what he had heard in his district during the recent two-week congressional recess. Alluding to the fact that congressmen often don't rate very high in opinion polls, Cleaver told the executives: "Your approval rating is lower than ours and that means your down low." "I heard what you are hearing. Americans are very worried about the rising price of energy," said John Hofmeister, president of Shell Oil Co., echoing remarks by the other four executives from Exxon Mobil Corp., BP America Inc., Chevron Corp., and ConocoPhillips. But the executives rejected claims that their companies' earnings are out of step with other industries and said that while they earn tens of billions of dollars, they also invest tens of billions in exploration and oil production activities. "Our earnings, though high in absolute terms, need to be viewed in the context of the scale and cyclical, long-term nature of our industry as well as the huge investment requirements," said J.S. Simon, Exxon Mobil's senior vice president. But Markey asked Simon why Exxon Mobil hasn't followed the other companies in investing in alternative energy. The four other companies reported spending as much as $3.5 billion in recent years on solar, wind, biodiesel and other renewable projects. "Why is Exxon Mobil resisting the renewable revolution," asked Markey. Simon said his company, which earned $40 billion last year, had provided $100 million on research into climate change at Stanford University, but that current alternative energy technologies "just do not have an appreciable impact" in addressing "the challenge we're trying to meet." Executives from the largest U.S oil companies have been frequent targets of lawmakers, frustrated at not being able to do much to counter soaring oil and gasoline costs. In November, 2005, Hofmeister and the top executives of the same companies represented Tuesday sat in a Senate hearing room to explain high prices and their huge profits. The prices are of concern, Hofmeister said at the time, adding a note of optimism: "Our industry is extremely cyclical and what goes up almost always comes down," he told the skeptical senators on a day when oil cost $60 a barrel. About six months later, when the cost of the same barrel reached $75, the executives were grilled again on Capitol Hill on their spending and investment priorities. Recently oil prices reached a peak of $111 a barrel. While declining a bit in recent days, the price remains above $100 and there's talk of $4 a gallon gasoline in the coming months. Markey challenged the executives to pledge to invest 10 percent of their profits to develop renewable energy and give up $18 billion in tax breaks over 10 years so money could be funneled to support other energy and conservation. The executives said the companies already are spending billions of dollars — more than $3.5 billion over the last five years — on renewable fuels such as wind energy and biodiesel, but rejected any tax increases. "Imposing punitive taxes on American energy companies, which already pay record taxes, will discourage the sustained investment needed to continue safeguarding U.S. energy security," Simon insisted. "These companies are defending billions of federal subsidies ... while reaping over a hundred billion dollars in profits in just the last year alone," complained Markey, chairman of the Select Committee on Energy Independence and Global Warming. The House last year and again on Feb. 27 approved legislation that would have ended the tax breaks for the oil giants, while using the revenue to support wind, solar and other renewable fuels and incentives for energy conservation. The measure has not passed the Senate. 100's of billions of dollars. This is why they fight alternative energy so hard. Don't believe the BS about how it's not feasible, it's not practical, it's too expensive. It's not.
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123 billion in profits. "we've spent 3.5 billion the past 5 years" 3.5 / 5 = 700,000,000/year That is 0.006% I've probably lost more than that on the ground in a year. heck they get more than that in tax breaks every year.
Last edited by FloridaFan; 04/01/08 05:02 PM.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Less interior space - for people and for cargo.
There's 3 of us in tÒis house. I don't need a van.
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Too heavy, so you can't tow as much.
I don't tow much to begin with - that's why we didn't get a 1 ton dually diesel.
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Too heavy, so you can't stop as fast.
You do realize I have an H3, right? Not the military style H1. Plus, the brakes are bigger. I'll stop my H3 just as quick if not quicker than a minivan.
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Not fuel efficient.
Darn close though.
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Accidents more lethal, more likely to get in accident. Bigger blind spots, less overall visibility.
Aside from the blindspots, please show me the proof that hummers are more likely to get in an accident. And actually, bigger heavier vehicles are SAFER in an accident.
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Expensive to fix. Lower dependability.
Wrong. You do realize H3's are built on the same chassis as general motors small pickups, don't you? Reliability? It's there, my friend. Expensive to fix? Not one bit more than any other 4x4.
I'd be that a four wheel drive mazda minivan, an all wheel drive subaru forester, a small truck, or a jeep, would better suit your wife's needs, unless she has to constantly drive up 45 degree angles under sniper fire.
Do you have any idea that there were 3 models of hummers available to the public?
And how in the hell do you know what my wifes needs are?
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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I think he's just trying to make a point about the Hummer. I don't think it's got anything to do with your wife. A tad touchy today, aren't we? 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Legend
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I think he's just trying to make a point about the Hummer. I don't think it's got anything to do with your wife. A tad touchy today, aren't we?
No, not really. His point about the Hummer is different than a point about an H3, and regardless, if we got rid of ALL suv's, it wouldn't effect our economy in the slightest.
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Dawg Talker
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Sure it would. We'd use less gas. And eventually we could stop invading poor oil producing countries........
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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I dont' know what your wife's needs are. That's why I said "I'd bet." If there's only three of you, and you don't tow much, and you agree there are more blindspots, and that it is less fuel efficient than other vehicles, I still don't get why you have it. I'd show'd you it's less practical, and your response was that it's okay with you because you dont' need it to do those other things. you still haven't said why you need it instead of something else more responsible to the air quality and our dedpendence on foreign oil. Hummer safety: http://www.lilith-ezine.com/articles/automotive/SUVs-Are-Dangerous.htmlIt's long, so I'll highlight this sentence: "The most dangerous SUV: The Hummer has the highest rate of drivers killed and the highest rollover rate." http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.ht...mp;pagewanted=2http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/23/opinion/meyer/main537649.shtmlThe country’s top road safety regulator, Dr. Jeffrey Runge, head of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration recently told an auto industry group, “The fatality rate per 100,000 registered SUVs is about three times higher than it is for passenger cars. It doesn’t take a statistician to tell you something is wrong here.” http://www.wheels24.co.za/Wheels24/News/General_News/0,,1369-1372-2094_2277531,00.html The 2009 Nissan Murano was the best performer in new crash tests of midsize sport utility vehicles, while the Hummer H3 had one of the poorest showings, according to results released on Tuesday by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. General Motors's H3 was the only vehicle in the group that didn't get the top rating for frontal crash protection. Instead, it got the second-highest rating of "acceptable" because the test indicated high likelihood of injury to the driver's right leg. The H3 also got an "acceptable" rating in the side crash test and the worst rating of "poor" in the rear crash test. The rear crash test measures the risk of injury from whiplash, which is the most serious injury reported in 2 million insurance claims each year
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Sure it would. We'd use less gas. And eventually we could stop invading poor oil producing countries........
Or we could skip the middle man and just get rid of all SUV owners. 
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Practice Squad
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However, in regards to Hummers specifically, I don't think there is any reason at all to own one. They are incredibly inefficient vehicles. The only thing they are good for, is driving off road while withstanding enemy fire. So if we're allowed to shoot at them, I probably wouldn't mind them as much.
I'm not saying I'm a huge hummer fan.. but I've always figgered if I had the disposable income I'd buy one.. The thing is, it would NEVER be my daily driver, so the fact that the mileage sucks would do little to dent my wallet or the environment.
That said, they ARE useful for more than just military purposes. And it hit home last year, during the horrible flooding in Findlay, and other parts of NW OH. I heard a few stories and read a few letters to the editor from people thanking a man (most only knew his first name) who drove his Hummer around town, helping people evacuate their flooded homes. In many areas, the water was simply too high for normal vehicles to drive through.
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Legend
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Not quoting your post for length reasons. Your first link also said that minivans aren't safe as well. Plus, the list of reasons for suv's being unsafe has mainly to do with the driver, does it not? Plus, it says "Hummer". Which one? H1? H2? Or H3? The second link basically says that people get injured or hurt in accidents and consequently they want to put side airbags in vehicles. Your third link is from 2003 and talks about a tax break people can take if they buy a H1. Were you aware that AM General quit producing the H1 for civilian use due to low sales? Nice article, but a 5 yr. old article dealing with something that is no longer even produced doesn't lend much to your post. Don't know what happened to your 4th link, but it doesn't work for me. AND, everything else aside, I'm not getting rid of the H3 regardless. I like it. My wife likes it. In fact, we'll probably get another one. Plus, I'm going to go drive it soon just to upset you.
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Don't get hit from behind.
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AND, everything else aside, I'm not getting rid of the H3 regardless. I like it. My wife likes it. In fact, we'll probably get another one. Plus, I'm going to go drive it soon just to upset you.
That's the spirit! Why didn't you just tell me you're not going to change no matter what so i don't waste my time in the first place?
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Hall of Famer
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A couple of things here: You and Fletch are whacked to say that driving a SUV is supporting terrorists. Sheesh! Our government has a long history of supporting terrorists. We just call them by different names as it suits us. And they support them directly. That SUV statement is crap. Secondly, I really don't think it is any of your business what arch drives. It's his freaking money and he can buy what the hell he wants. Jesus, of all things to bitch about.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I never asked him what he drives. I never told him he couldn't spend his money on whatever he wants.
However, the reason I care, and the reason it is my business, is because arch and I and you all share the same planet and the same country.
So there.
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Legend
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Legend
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That's the spirit! Why didn't you just tell me you're not going to change no matter what so i don't waste my time in the first place?
You thought you were going to change me by telling me my vehicle is wasteful, unsafe, and a scab on society?
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