DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage on Upping Anderson's Offer . . .

Here's a new hot topic for you. I see two very divided sides in this thread. Can someone explain the poisin pill part to me?

Browns | Savage explains why he upped offer to D. Anderson
Tue, 1 Apr 2008 21:22:54 -0700

Tony Grossi, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports Cleveland Browns general manager Phil Savage said he upped the team's contract offer to QB Derek Anderson because he was afraid the Dallas Cowboys would sign him and trade him to the Miami Dolphins. Savage was afraid Dallas would sign Anderson to a big contract that included a "poison pill." The Cowboys would have given the Browns their first-round pick, No. 28 overall, and their third-round pick as compensation for signing the restricted free agent. The Cowboys would then have traded Anderson and their other first-round pick, No. 22 overall, to the Miami Dolphins for the No. 1 overall pick in the draft. As a result, the Browns raised their maximum offer from $22 million to $24 million when they signed him.

Browns | Anderson earns additional money
Tue, 1 Apr 2008 21:47:25 -0700

Tony Grossi, of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, reports Cleveland Browns QB Derek Anderson earned more than $254,000 from the NFL's Performance-Based Pay program.

http://www.kffl.com/team/13/nfl

Here's the Plain Dealer article. I understand the poison pill part now. . .

http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2008/04/cowboys_rumors_influenced_ande.html

Cowboys rumors influenced Anderson signing

Posted by Tony Grossi tgrossi@plaind.com April 01, 2008 22:20PM

Palm Beach, Fla. -- General Manager Phil Savage upped the Browns' contract offer to Derek Anderson because he feared Dallas would sign the quarterback and trade him to Miami.

"It didn't matter if I was pretty convinced or just slightly," Savage said Tuesday at NFL league meetings. "The threat of that being there [influenced him to raise the Browns' offer]."

Here's what Savage envisioned if he failed to re-sign Anderson to a multiyear deal and had to give him the one-year contract tender as a restricted free agent:

Dallas would have signed Anderson to a big contract and included a "poison pill," which would have made it impossible for the Browns to match the offer.

Dallas would have compensated the Browns with first- and third-round picks. They would be the Cowboys' original selections, No. 28 overall in both rounds.

Dallas would have traded Anderson and their other first-round pick -- No. 22 overall, obtained from the Browns last year -- to Miami for the No. 1 overall pick in the draft. The Cowboys then would select Arkansas running back Darren McFadden with that pick.

Savage said he became suspicious because he thought the new big fish in Miami, Bill Parcells, really liked Anderson and the Dolphins declined to answer phone calls prior to the tender deadline of midnight on Feb. 29.

He thought a working relationship between the Cowboys and Parcells would facilitate the complex deal. He also thought the Cowboys would lend Parcells a hand in the transaction partly to tweak the Browns for looking good in the Brady Quinn trade of a year ago, which resulted in a much lower pick for the Cowboys than anticipated.

"What better way to get back at us for having a good year?" Savage said.

A spokesman for the Cowboys said owner Jerry Jones had no knowledge of a proposed trade with Miami for Anderson.

As a result of Savage's concern, he raised the Browns' three-year offer from a maximum of $22 million to $24 million.

Here come the Cowboys: A league source said one draft of the upcoming 2008 schedule calls for the Browns to open the season Sept. 7 at home against the Dallas Cowboys. The game would be moved to 4 p.m. and aired on FOX as its national game.

The Browns have never opened the season on the road since they returned to the NFL in 1999.

More money for D.A.: On top of his new Browns contract, Anderson received a check for over $254,000 from the NFL's "performance-based pay" system.

The complex system awards lower-salaried players for excessive playing time. Anderson's league bonus amounted to more than half of his 2007 base salary of $450,000.

Every player in the league who plays one down is eligible to receive something in the program. Anderson's bonus was the 13th-highest in the league.

Can you hear me?: Owners approved allowing one defensive player to wear a helmet with a radio receiver to hear coaches' play-calls. One primary defensive player plus one alternate must be designated before the game to be eligible to use the same device that quarterbacks have used since 1994. No more than one player on defense with the helmet can be on the field at the same time. And, yes, the helmet will have a decal on the back like the one worn by quarterbacks.

Tidbits: Browns coach Romeo Crennel said newly acquired defensive tackle Shaun Rogers was visiting his mother in Texas the last two weeks, but would join the team's offseason conditioning program this week .... In response to a question from a Detroit reporter, Crennel said Rogers weighed in "about 50 pounds less" than a rumored 405 pounds .... Crennel said that despite a new surplus at offensive guard, he intended for Ryan Tucker to remain at right guard, though he could compete again for his former right tackle spot.

OK,, I gotta toot my own horn here..

About a month and a half ago, I said that a deal could happen where the Cowboys would sign Anderson, give us a 1st and 3rd, trade Anderson and thier other 1st round pick to Miami for the 1st over all pick so they could grab the top RB in the draft..

I got put on a rail and run out of town for that one...

I guess it's not as far fetched as some of you thought it was.

Sometimes, things that could happen are the things you gotta look at closer...

I'm still not sure I understand the "poison pill" thing. Any help?

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I'm still not sure I understand the "poison pill" thing. Any help?

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If I have this right, what it means is that had we not reached a long term agreement with Anderson, we'd have then made him an offer that would be considered a High Tender.

That means that any team that wants him would have sign him to a contract and then had to give us a 1st and 3rd round pick in the upcoming draft.

OR, we could have matched the offer and kept Anderson.

The Poison pill would have had to been something in the contract that the other team offer that we would not have matched.. Such as, if he completes ONE pass of over 50 yards, he gets a 50 million dollar bonus. No team in thier right mind would ever match that offer.. thus the poison pill,,

Did that explain it?

Yeah, if that's what a poison pill is. Thanks.

A poison pill is where the offering team (the Cowboys in this case) write something into the contract that would make it either technically impossible or financially irresponsible for us to match the contract as we would have to agree to take the contract as it is written by them in order to match.

A classic example is the offer that the Seattle Seahawks signed Nate Burleson to. It was a deal for 7 years, $49Million. In it were two poison pills. The first part was that if Burleson played 5 or more games in the state of Minnesota during any season, the entire $49Million woul become guaranteed. The second one was that if Nate were to earn more per year on average than all of Minnesota's running backs combined, the full contract would be guaranteed. Since the Vikings play half of their games at home in Minnesota, and their running backs combined earned less per year than the $7 million in Burleson's contract, Minnesota was unable to match it.


As for the article: I'm surprised that someone was actually looking at giving up a 1 & 3, and almost equally surprised that we didn't jump on it. However, my guess is that it is because of how low those picks are, it would be closer to getting a 2 & 3 instead of a 1 & 2.

Draft day might still be interesting.

Man, I need to start writing contracts like that for myself!!

Thanks to you and Daman for explaining that to me.

I'm surprised that someone was actually looking at giving up a 1 & 3, and almost equally surprised that we didn't jump on it.
Odd..I read where Bmore was the team involved...and that came from a Cleveland article..
But the thing is..Phil didn't want Anderson bounced around like meat for a high pick..second, he didn't want another team getting essentially a higher pick for DA than what he could have gotten..had the Fins offered their picks to Cleveland first ..he probably would have bitten..
Since it was Dallas trying to move uo with Anderson as bait, he said noo way..
Now to be open..if you are in the camp that says TRADE DA and get something high..then you would get that..the reality is a high first and third is enough to get the Browns several good players..right now..a corner and a LB..

If you're the camp that feels that after the smoke cleared ... Phil got fleeced/used/played by Dallas ..U don't do it..

Yeah, the example was a bit off the mark and over the top,, but the drift of it remains intact...

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The pill would have to be for something DA would likely accomplish if he were a Brown but not if he were somewhere else. A 50 yard completion is likely no matter who he plays for.

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So it would have read something like. Completing a 50 yard pass to a receiver named Winslow, Edwards or Stallworth! Big deal. The poison pill is easy to understand.

It's the article that I have a problem with. Sounds more like rumor and smoke screen to me.

The reason I have a problem with this article is the difference of $2 million does NOT prevent you from any poison pill. An additional $2 million for a starting QB is not a substantial amount by any means. I think it was just simply the negotiating process between Anderson's agent and Savage. I honestly think Savage wanted to keep Anderson on this team.

I'm not buying into any of the other scenarios. Even those of you who predicted this. Sorry.

I'm not sure that I buy it ......

Savage with a "final" offer ... then increased it to get a deal done ..... then saves face by being convinced, and ...... "It didn't matter if I was pretty convinced or just slightly" ......

Sorry ..... but I think that this is "GM Speak" ........


Besides .... If I'm Miami, I'm not so sure that I don't listen to an offer from Dallas for 2 #1s and a #3 for the 1st overall anyway.

j/c

Interesting that Savage's comments centered around not getting screwed by the Cowboys instead of tooting DA's ability as a starter for the Browns.

Not one word printed - although possibly actually said - about DA as a starting cailber QB.

I STILL won't be surprised if DA is part of a draft day deal...cap hit or not.

Here's some more from the Plain Dealer....

• QB COMPETITION A MATTER OF SEMANTICS: Coach Romeo Crennel reiterated there is competition at every position, including quarterback, at this year's training camp. But Savage clarified those remarks. "The reality is you don't give a guy $8 million and expect him to be in an open competition," Savage said of incumbent starter Derek Anderson. "He would have to play really poorly and Brady (Quinn) would have to play lights out (to beat him out)."



Ohhhh...

DON'T EXPECT A BOMBSHELL ON APRIL 28: Rumors -- or hope -- that Savage has one more move up his sleeves to acquire a first-day draft pick are without any merit. Savage said he has written off the first day of the draft (first two rounds). "I have no thoughts in my mind that we have the wherewithal to (move up)," he said. "I think any move up we're able to make would be to move a couple spots higher in the fourth round."


Honestly and even if a certain poster pops up...I think Phil(I say this hesitantly this early before the draft) wants to make sure DA is a starter and can improve..now if he's moved this year(in spite of Phil's words.. well it's a moot point)it means Phil wasn't that high on him..

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I STILL won't be surprised if DA is part of a draft day deal...cap hit or not.

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Now where did I read that DA's signing bonus isn't due and payable until very late April.. if that's the case (big if) then we wouldn't even take a cap hit..

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The reason I have a problem with this article is the difference of $2 million does NOT prevent you from any poison pill.

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You are right about that, I can't see 2 million scaring off anyone. But what I can invision is, Phil says to DA's agent, Ok, let's cut the bull, I'll give up $2 million more guaranteed if DA signs it right now.

I can see that.. but you are right about 2 million not scaring anyone.

I have to agree. I don't think $2 million is enough to be the make or break deal on this. The Cowboys would have had to sign DA to a contract as well, and does anybody really believe they would not have offered an extra 2 mill to get him if that is what they really wanted?

I do believe that Savage wanted to keep DA, however just the way he talks about this possible outcome tells me that he would have let DA go for a higher 1st and 3rd. probably no lower than a mid-round pick in each round.

Yeah i don't buy it.

Phil might of upped the offer because he was afraid of losing DA but not because he was afraid of losing DA to the possibility of another team using him to make a trade.

My take:

Savage is right about that we don't pay DA that money to be a backup. Everyone knows that. DA is the starter, as he should be. He ended last year our starter, so why shouldn't he be our starter this year?

However, I don't think we're so bullheaded to think that if DA plays poorly, we don't go to our backup in Quinn.

I don't think any of us know how to react to the situation where we may have the same starting QB this coming year that we did the previous year. It's like thinking we might have a coach here for longer than 3 years. We just don't know how to deal with it, so we drum up a lot of controversy.

I'm not a huge DA fan, but I don't think he played so poorly as to lose his starting job. Did he play so great that he's an absolute 100% lock, even if he plays terribly in camp and preseason? No. He's not a Manning or Brady in that sense. But, he's gonna have to play Sorgi-bad to lose his starting spot at the beginning of the season.

As to moving up in the draft, we all know to take everything GMs say right now with a grain of salt. Now, I think it's pretty unlikely we'll be able to move back into the first day, let alone willing. We'd have to give up a lot, and I don't see us doing it.

Phil might of upped the offer because he was afraid of losing DA but not because he was afraid of losing DA to the possibility of another team using him to make a trade.

HUH?
Phil is usually straightforward most of time..he lets people know what he wants them to know.
He said he didn't want DA being tossed around like meat ..he was looking out for him.
His concern about Dallas using DA as bait to move up and Cleveland left watching all this play out is valid if you reason on it..
He would get Dallas's 28th pick and their third round pick..
Sounds good up front..
But then Dallas uses DA to trade up to Miami to get their top pick..and the RB they want..
Smart on the Boy's part..but Phil is left looking like he got raked over the coals by not coming out with the better of the deal..

I don't buy this.

To have Derek sign the deal, he'd have had to have been offered a decent signing bonus (as good as or better than what was on the table here). Also, why would any QB sign a deal with Dallas after Romo's big contract?

So, Dallas was willing to give up a first and a third pick for Anderson, then they were going to eat the salary cap hit (whole signing bonus would escalate to year 1), trade Anderson and another first round pick for the number 1 pick overall?

This means they'd trade #22, #28, eat say 8 million in guarantees for Anderson's escalation, and then eat another 35 million for signing bonus (prorated over 5 years) for whomever they were going to pick at #1overall?

Makes no sense to me. Someone bamboozled Phil or he's not telling us the whole truth.

IMHO....I thought that we were sold on Quinn as our future QB....Poisin Pill or not we still would have ended up with a 1st & 3rd Rd. pick , which we currently don't have....Who cares IF Dallas parlayed Anderson to get McFadden ! ?....So now we overpaid Anderson , who IF we listen to Mr. Savage , is Not the future of the franchise ? ....

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So now we overpaid Anderson , who IF we listen to Mr. Savage , is Not the future of the franchise ? ....

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Did we really over pay DA? I know the contract is for 24 million over 3 years, but how much of that is guaranteed money.

My guess is that 12 mill in guaranteed. That's 4 mill a year if I'm right.

So the question is this, is 4 mill a year over paying for a guy that leads his team to 9 wins out of 15 starts, threw for 3800 yards, 29 TD's and 19 Ints?

If you think that's too much, then in your mind, we over paid,,, I don't!

I must have missed it, because I didn't read that Savage ever said that DA wasn't the future of the team... what did I miss?

Your post doesn't make much sense to me. Guaranteed money is a mixture of the signing bonus and certain bonuses if he is on the roster. If all 12 mil is signing bonus (which there is zero chance of) that money is equally spread out through the contract against the cap; making that 4 million of signing bonus each year. Then there is still the non-guaranteed money to spread out; which won't be equal. More than lilkely something very little the first year and a lot the last year.

Since all 12 million isn't a signing bonus, it won't be spread out equally. Let's say that 6 mill is a signing bonus; then 2 million of that would be on each year's salary. But the remaining 6 million would be randomly dispersed at random dates.

No matter how you look at it that is 8 million per year. Odds are he won't get most of that from us.

Deep,, first off, I said I was gussing at the amount of guaranteed money.. I thought I was gussing high at 12 Million.

Guaranteed money is guaranteed money.. I didn't differentiate between signing bonues, roster bonuses or annual salary. Didn't matter in the example I gave.

The question was, is he overpaid or not. I say not, even if it does turn out to be 4 mill a year.

jc..

I keep reading alot of you saying 2 million wouldn't have scared off other teams.

What I think you are forgetting, is that if Phil had this information that told him Dallas might make an offer on DA, and he didn't like the possible offers, and wanted to avoid that scenario, you offer DA 2 million to sweeten the pot for him to get him to sign, BEFORE he gets an offer from Dallas that they couldn't match.

See, the 2 million was to get DA to sign, before they faced this situation. If they wait, and this offer comes through, DA stands to make more, and/or the Browns have to pay him more.

So unless your dead set on letting him go, you get him to sign for as little as possible.

Good point Florida... and let us remember that Savage stated that he thought this MIGHT happen, whether it was a small notion or a strong feeling, he didn't want to take the chance. No proof that this was ever even in the works.

My point was/is that regardless of how the contract breaks down , Mr. Savage has implied that Quinn and Not Anderson is the future QB of the franchise....I understand that he has built us to win sooner than later , that said , I still think IF I were him I would have taken Dallas's picks and started Quinn....I mean IF we keep making progress with Anderson at QB---Great !....The more success we have the less chance I see of Mr. Savage turning to Quinn , who regardless of what Mr. Savage says , still hasn't gained any experience and who's value as an unproven QB IMHO continues to drop....** ....As a Fan however , a win is a win is a win and I will be the last one to argue with our having continued success....Go Browns ! ....

That's a valid point Florida, but don't you think Anderson's agent would have heard about a Dallas offer? I don't know. It seems too simple.

I personally think Savage is throwing it out there as not really an excuse, but a reason behind increasing the offer past the amount he stated was "the highest they will go" I'm sure he heard that Dallas was a POSSIBLE suitor, but used that as a spring board to get DA signed quickly and to justify the amount of money.

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What I think you are forgetting,

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I'm not forgetting anything,,,

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See, the 2 million was to get DA to sign, before they faced this situation.

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Go back and read an earlier post of mine where I basically say the same thing.. See, I didn't miss a thing. You did!

Just some simple questions...................

Isn't this the very SAME Grossi who wrote that Cowher would be our coach this year?
The same Grossi that gets accused of writing articles "just to stir the pot"?
The same Grossi that so many on here say "isn't credible and is a hack"?

I guess that only applies when he writes something many disagree with, huh?

Pit, that seems to be the norm around here. Trash the media when they write something negative about us, but believe it as gospel when they write something positive.