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I hope so Daman. Just seemed a little strange the way I read it. Besides, if reading into things around here is a crime, I think we're all going to be sitting on death row.
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Daman it seems U straddle the fence when the obvious is RIGHT IN FRONT OF U...The Quote is:
Coach Romeo Crennel reiterated there is competition at every position, including quarterback, at this year's training camp. But Savage clarified those remarks. "The reality is you don't give a guy $8 million and expect him to be in an open competition," Savage said of incumbent starter Derek Anderson. "He would have to play really poorly and Brady (Quinn) would have to play lights out (to beat him out)."
Phil wants to protect his QB..even though that contract only is really good for one year..one year for DA to prove he belongs a starter..
Rac ..probably musing on the QB mess last year is thinking ..I want the best guy to start...and they'll compete...
Neither Phil nor Rac is saying the same thing..
They aren't agreeing at all..there ain't one word in anything that shows they were in agreement.
What takes place is something we'll hear about once TC starts.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/10/08 11:19 AM.
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Besides, if reading into things around here is a crime, I think we're all going to be sitting on death row.
LOL so true.. 
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Daman it seems U straddle the fence when the obvious is RIGHT IN FRONT OF U...The Quote is:
I read the quote and I come away feeling the same.. Phil is saying what it would take for Quinn to get the job over DA,,(DA does poorly and BQ Excels) and RAC is conveying the method that will be used to determine the starter (competition)
I don't think that's riding or straddling any fence,, it's how I interpret the comments you quoted from RAC and Phil.,.
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Phil and RAC don't seem to be on the same page..RAC is consistent in saying "nobody has an automatic job". Phil is consistent that DA is the 2008 starter. But given RAC's short history here I can't see him starting Quinn no matter how well he plays.
DA is going to have to play himself out of the job in the regular season period. I'm sure the fans and media will make a big stink if Quinn plays great all camp and pre-season and DA does what he did last camp. But it will fall on deaf ears until we lose real games.
This whole issue is going to get alot of ink and paper this summer and its quite useless because again in one sentence: It's DA's job, he has to play himself onto the bench, BQ can't play himself into the starting role in camp/pre-season.
I personally think its not the right way to do it, but thats whats up.
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I tend to agree with you..and from the stance thats been taken on DA (it seems on the surface ) he would be safe until the season starts. An actual QB competition would apparently bruise the tender ego of the starter AND WE JUST can't have that can we?  . He who gets the big contract shouldn't have to compete. Seriously... Anderson's performance last year earns him the starting role. But it comes with ????? marks.. Doesn't mean he shouldn't have to defend it. It really means he's got to prove he can be a long term starter.. I expect him to work on his fundamentals to be a better QB ..that INCLUDES everything everyone on every forum has pointed out he needs improvement on.. This might be one of the most dissected training camps we' ve seen in a long while.. But ..if DA implodes or really drops off during the season..then we know what will happen. Da has to play consistantly solid football to retain his starter spot. Daman ..Rac didn't convey anything except that every spot is a open competition..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 04/10/08 11:48 AM.
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jc..
I don't think RAC is saying that it isn't DAs job to lose, but merely saying to everyone on the team "show up to camp and give 110%, because if you think you can show up and slack off because you have your spot in the bag, your dead wrong."
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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As I've said several times, I don't care who the qb IS as long as it's the best guy. I don't like the idea of anyone starting by default and getting three or four games to show us exactly how much they stink before a change is made. It only makes sense that you start the best guy from the get-go.
Which is why it boggles my mind that Savage is basically saying the job is DA's. I tremendously value Savage's opinions on team matters, but this is one time that I completely disagree with him. Derek and Brady need to start it off in the mini-camps, and it should travel into training camp. They need to keep it a competition, make a decision within the first 2 weeks of camp and have a starter decided before the preseason starts. NOT before the season starts.
Now I've heard Romeo basically going the opposite route, saying it's an open competition for the starting spot. As it should be. If the guys look competitive and there's no clear cut winner, DA should be named the starter and that's the end of it. But if Brady outshines Derek in training camp, it just numbs my brain to think Savage would insist Derek is the starter because they signed him to an extension.
Sorry Phil, Romeo makes much more sense here. Romeo doesn't care how much money a player is making. The best guys play. Period. If McKinney outplays Tucker for the RG spot, then that's what we do. If Leon Williams outplays Andra for the starting spot, so be it. I want the AFC North title, I want to win the AFC Championship. I want to win the Superbowl. I don't want our chances hurt because some guy signed an extension which automatically gives him a starting job.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Okay, some of you have reiterated my concerns so I know that they are valid. Personally, I think Phil should know his role and not speak on matters that are not up to him to decide. I'm quite astonished actually that he has said what he did on the subject. It seems very un-Opie like of him. No doubt this will be a HEATED debate for months to come.
But I don't think anyone of us should assume BQ will beat out DA if given the opportunity. However, I think he should be given the opportunity. The thing we have to remember is that whoever loses the "battle" will ultimately lose their roster spot next off-season. And what I wanna know is, what kind of value will the loser have at that point? 
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They need to keep it a competition, make a decision within the first 2 weeks of camp and have a starter decided before the preseason starts. NOT before the season starts.
I disagree with your disagreement
With the vocal outcry for Quinn, I think it's important to make it known that DA is the starter going in. By making those feelings known via public proclamation, it leaves less room for any potential QB controversy. It's also in Anderson's best interest to get the most reps with the regular starters, simply because he still has so few starts under his belt. Sure, he'll split time with Quinn, but he needs to be given the first crack at the most time with the regulars to develop timing and familiarity.
We have to remember that Anderson is still fighting a PR battle, even if he's the unchallenged starter in the eyes of everyone within the organization, including the players. He didn't finish the season off on the right note, which leaves ammunition for the pro-Quinn crowd. As a result of all that, the FO has to fight the battle to keep Anderson's chin and confidence up.
Common sense says you don't give Anderson that kind of money just to "compete" for the starting gig, but common sense isn't enough for some common fans as well as a slanted media. That's why we've seen RAC break from his traditional-yet-hollow mantra of "every job is up for grabs." For once, it's in his best interest to NOT create such a falacy, but rather support his incumbent starter.
Having said all that, the job doesn't belong to Anderson no matter what. If Quinn clearly blows him away in camp, they'd seriously consider giving him the gig. Again, common sense speaks of this just by examing the details of Anderson's contract.
I'm digressin' here, but I think you get my point 
Oh, and Versie.........Anderson's touch stinks  
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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That's why we've seen RAC break from his traditional-yet-hollow mantra of "every job is up for grabs."
We have??? 
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Oh, and Versie.........Anderson's touch stinks
At least we agree on something.
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I read the quote and I come away feeling the same.. Phil is saying what it would take for Quinn to get the job over DA,,(DA does poorly and BQ Excels) and RAC is conveying the method that will be used to determine the starter (competition)
I don't think that's riding or straddling any fence,, it's how I interpret the comments you quoted from RAC and Phil.,.
That's how I see it.
Right now, Anderson is the starter. If we had a game today, he'd be the starter. Same with Joe Thomas, Braylon, Wimbley and a bunch of other guys.
But it isn't a guarantee that it will stay that way. Quinn could win the job, but it won't be easy. Just like it won't be easy for a lot of other guys to lose their starting spots.
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With the vocal outcry for Quinn, I think it's important to make it known that DA is the starter going in. By making those feelings known via public proclamation, it leaves less room for any potential QB controversy. It's also in Anderson's best interest to get the most reps with the regular starters, simply because he still has so few starts under his belt. Sure, he'll split time with Quinn, but he needs to be given the first crack at the most time with the regulars to develop timing and familiarity.
We have to remember that Anderson is still fighting a PR battle, even if he's the unchallenged starter in the eyes of everyone within the organization, including the players. He didn't finish the season off on the right note, which leaves ammunition for the pro-Quinn crowd. As a result of all that, the FO has to fight the battle to keep Anderson's chin and confidence up.
WHAT ?????????
It should be always about what’s good for team. I agree with people who are saying there should be open competition for QB position this summer. I really don’t understand how you can decide starter on basis of money paid to individual…. I never liked that statement coming out of Phils mouth.
Why FO has to fight for DA’s confidence. That’s something DA should take care by himself. He is playing Professional football
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Having said all that, the job doesn't belong to Anderson no matter what. If Quinn clearly blows him away in camp, they'd seriously consider giving him the gig. Again, common sense speaks of this just by examing the details of Anderson's contract.
How can you expect Quinn to win (forget about blowing) in training camp, if he is not going to get same reps as DA.
This whole thing is going to get uglier. 
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I really don’t understand how you can decide starter on basis of money paid to individual…. I never liked that statement coming out of Phils mouth.
I thought he was the starter because he put up pro bowl numbers last year, but that's just me....
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so many of you talk as if you are authorities on the subject and get offended if someone questions you.
You can actually type that with a straight face? Now, that is funny. 
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jules: You are way off. That's okay, keep preaching the hate, sister.
Really? Please show me where. Show me why you think the line benefits more from a good QB than the other way around. Show me why you don't think Palmer was affected by the decline of their line. Show me why we finally have a good line and a historically below average QB looked pretty good.
Hater? Your cute little names have no affect on me, go play that game with someone else. Unless you can show me where I've ever said I hated Anderson. Good luck. 
I'll use Tom Brady as an example of where a QB makes his OL look better than it actually is (I'm not saying look GOOD, I'm saying better than it actually is).
I'll be honest, I think across the board our OL was better than the Pats' line last season. I noticed the pocket closing in on Brady last season but he was able to keep his composure and make the throw. Contrary to popular belief, he didn't have all day to stand back there and make the throw.
On the flipside, you have #9, who made our OL look worse than it actually was both in '07 AND '06. Yes I said '06, I sound crazy, right? WRONG. There was a very clear difference in the pass protection between when Chaz Frye was in the game and when Anderson was in the game. Yes the protection was still sub-par, there's no arguing that, but the sack totals dropped immensely. Frye was just horrible and had no business in the NFL. I KNOW I said after DA's games in '06 "at least DA LOOKS like a QB, unlike that bumbling, stumbling mess #9."
In fact, I'll argue that if Frye was our starter until the Bye week last year, the sack totals for the first 6 games would be very similar and you'd still have the Frye huggers blaming the OL. I know the OL was blamed for him in the first game of the year when it was very clear he had time in the pocket.
As for Anderson's performance in the Tampa Bay game that year where he threw those INT's and got hurt? It's his weakness all along: Tampa plays the Cover 2, and he's struggled on shorter stuff.
As far as this whole Anderson thing goes...in the long run my money is on Quinn, but I'm not ready to throw Anderson out with the bath water just yet, and here's why...
-His decision making DID improve down the stretch. In fact, it improved tremendously, he stopped forcing the ball downfield as much, partly due to how defenses played him differently, and partly because the game slowed down for him. I was satisfied with his decisions.
-But I was NOT satisfied with his throws. I have to agree with Dawg in Dayton in the fact that he doesn't get nearly enough air on his deep ball (watch the air Palmer's deep ball gets vs. Anderson's, it's night and day). And yes, he does lack touch/accuracy on his shorter throws.
If he had accuracy on the short stuff, he would have gone over 4000 yards last year, no doubt in my mind.
And if he can develop that touch on the short stuff, and put more air on the deep ball, ladies and gentlemen, we have a QB for years and years.
BUT...my money's still on Quinn being that guy.
Last edited by Ammo; 04/10/08 03:47 PM.
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I really don’t understand how you can decide starter on basis of money paid to individual…. I never liked that statement coming out of Phils mouth.
Good job on putting words in Phil's mouth 
Hopefully, you'll eventually grasp the concept of cause and effect. Anderson isn't going into camp as the starter because he's earning more money. He was given more money because he had a good year. Because he had a good year, he was rewarded with a nice raise, and the 1st crack at the starters job.
Did I really have to explain that?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I was referring to these comments:
Quote:
Coach Romeo Crennel reiterated there is competition at every position, including quarterback, at this year's training camp. But Savage clarified those remarks. "The reality is you don't give a guy $8 million and expect him to be in an open competition," Savage said of incumbent starter Derek Anderson. "He would have to play really poorly and Brady (Quinn) would have to play lights out (to beat him out)."
I respect your opinion, but I am leaning more towards people who think he went to pro bowl for several other reasons
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I dunno, again i'm reading into things...  but the whole tone of that presser was strange. It was like Phil was trying to convine everyone, inlcuding DA he is our guy in 2008. Maybe the FO is trying to convince themselves he's our guy, dunno...pure dumb speculation.
It does feel like the FO is trying to boost DA's confidence and going out its way to do it.
I agree with the poster who said this is going to get uglier, which it is.
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These are not my words Quote:
Coach Romeo Crennel reiterated there is competition at every position, including quarterback, at this year's training camp. But Savage clarified those remarks. "The reality is you don't give a guy $8 million and expect him to be in an open competition," Savage said of incumbent starter Derek Anderson. "He would have to play really poorly and Brady (Quinn) would have to play lights out (to beat him out)."
Hopefully, you'll eventually grasp the concept of cause and effect. Anderson isn't going into camp as the starter because he's earning more money. He was given more money because he had a good year. Because he had a good year, he was rewarded with a nice raise, and the 1st crack at the starters job.
Did I really have to explain that?
Now you are trying to twist things. I was pointing out your analogy on supporting DA’s confidence. Read 1st 2 paragraphs of your earlier post.
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But what Phil is saying is DA would have to play terrible, and Quinn would have to play very well in order for Quinn to win the starting spot. I don't like that approach at all.
Derek is the starter as of now. It should still be an open competition, and if one QB plays noticeably better, he should be named the starter going into the preseason. Any other way doesn't make sense to me, no matter how you lay it out. JMHO.
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j/c
The thing is, last year Frye played better than DA in the pre-season, but the results were obviously different once "real" games started. That is why, IMO, DA should start the season. Least year he sucked in pre-season, and pretty much everyone on here wanted him cut. Then he hit the field during the regular season, and *poof*, 29 TDs. Off-season performance is not always a good indicator of performance during the season. It would be nice if it was, but it doesn't always work that way. DA has earned the right to start the season as he Browns' QB. IMO, it's as simple as that. DA played well and won as the starter last year, and has earned he right to reproduce and improve upon that success. If he plays consistently bad in he regular season, yank him and put in Quinn. But until he does that, he has already earned the right to start.
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Derek is the starter as of now. It should still be an open competition,
Why?
The FO thought enough of Anderson's abilities and upside that they resigned him to a fairly large contract. That shows their faith in him. Further, the guy just came off one of the best seasons by a Browns QB in twentysome years. Why would there be an "open competition"?
There are starters, and there are backups. Jamal Lewis is our starter. The other guys are backups. Joe Thomas is our starting LT. Other guys are backups. Winslow is our starting TE. Other guys are backups. These positions are not given through pedigree, but earned by production on the field. Similarly, Anderson has produced. If this should change, then all things are open to re-examination ...... much as if suddenly Lewis began to lose his effectiveness.
Now .... coaches will say that "all positions on the team are open to competition" .... but the truth is that very few really are. Just on offense, I can see the opening day starters being ....
Thomas
Steinbach
Fraley
X
Shaffer
Winslow
Edwards
Stallworth
Lewis
Vickers
Anderson
That's 1 position that is "really" up for grabs ..... despite the coaches proclaiming universal competition for all.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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Why?
Because I want the best guy to win the job. Pure and simple.
If there is a guy sitting on the bench that is better than the guy on the field, what good does that do us?????
Very simple concept.
Some of you guys act like he's a proven vet who has been holding down this spot for 3 or 4 years. He started 15 games.
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Anderson is the starter. As such, he'll not only receive the more valuable sets of snaps in pre-season, but also the benefit of the doubt regarding pre-season play.
It's just the way it is in the NFL. Starters see certain snaps ... backups see others ..... and never the twain shall meet.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Dude, you are totally not understanding Savage's words. He gave $8 Million to Anderson because Anderson put up good numbers after last year and was worth it.
He was emphasizing the point that Anderson is currently the starter because of his play and is going to be paid like one.
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Anderson is the starter. As such, he'll not only receive the more valuable sets of snaps in pre-season, but also the benefit of the doubt regarding pre-season play.
It's just the way it is in the NFL. Starters see certain snaps ... backups see others ..... and never the twain shall meet.
True. I'm also going to look at it the opposite way...
Yes, DA will get more meaningful reps with the first team in practice and in pregames. But Quinn will probably get more TOTAL snaps, since the 2nd team generally plays the most in the preseason.
It may prove beneficial to give Quinn the most preseason game time, 2nd team or not, if we're going to be "bringing him along slowly."
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Many times the backup receives the bulk of the work in the pre-season. Really, the only extensive pre-season action the 1st team sees is in the 3rd pre-season game.
And I agree that more work will probably benefit Quinn.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Daman ..Rac didn't convey anything except that every spot is a open competition..
Exactly... which is the way a head coach should be... nothing should be given to a player just because he had the position last year or he makes more money then the guy ahead of him... I believe whole-heartedly that DA will be the starter... but I don't want him thinking that he can screw around and keep his job. I want Brady to be nipping at his heels and I want them pushing each other and learning from each other... competition is good.
<><
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And I agree that more work will probably benefit Quinn.
Could you explain that, please?
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Maybe I should have said that more work can't hurt. I really don't get the whole thing. Face it .... a lot of people see Quinn as some sort of messiah, and take a whole lot on faith ...... but we really haven't seen much of him yet. More work and experience in our offense won't hurt the guy at all.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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The rofl was because I thought you were saying Quinn needs the extra work more than Anderson. Sorry if that's not what you meant.
And, we really haven't seen much of Anderson, either. He had a good first half of the season and a rather dismal second half (therein making him seem pretty average to the majority of the fan base). I think they could BOTH use all the work they can get is my point. Not one of us knows which one is better than the other.
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That's the other thing that gets me. We keep getting this inexperience factor in Quinn argument, and that DA has experience and should be the starter, when DA has one full season under his belt as a starter, if you don't include losing the job then regaining it after week 1.
DA didn't impress at all in '06, he looked AWFUL last year in preseason, then with a new offense and weapons at his disposal, he put up big numbers, then started to fall off the second half last year. That shouldn't default to anything. IMO he still has to earn the starting spot. He shouldn't be given anything. Does that mean he'll lose out to Quinn? Not neccessarily, but Quinn should be given a chance to do so.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,654
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Must be the off season...
Six useless pages rehashing Anderson.
The Browns paid him, got him for 3 years, if he is better than Quinn, Anderson will start.
And the draft wont help change the subject this year....
How long until July?
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Too long. 
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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Two of the biggest arguments from the Anti-DA crowd is accuracy and touch. Here is DA highlight reel from NFL network. Yep, it is a highlight reel, but tell me you don't see unbelievable accuracy on some of these throws? And then tell me you don't see the unreal touch he displays on some others, despite being a big-armed guy? LOL..............this should be interesting. http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d806c6612
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Here are a few highlights from the Rams' game. Check out the throw to K2 in the end zone. Then check out the throw to Joe J. on third and 17. Then look at the throw to Edwards in the end zone. Talk to me about accuracy. Check out the throw to the lob to BE in the end zone. That's touch. http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d803b0bb7 Like I said............I don't get what you guys are talking about.
Last edited by Versatile Dawg; 04/11/08 11:06 PM.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Those are some nice highlights...I was impressed with all the great throws he made from 15 yds and in.
Unbelievable touch and accuracy? Comon..like the throw to Braylon in the Cinci game that won it?
95% of those higlights are early and against bad teams, where are the highlights when we needed them against Cinci, Pitt, and Arz?
Did DA make some great throws? Sure, but watching that shows he also didn't always make great throws, but great CATCHES were made.
Saying he had "unbelievable" accuracy, and "unreal" touch is ridiculous , its why he coudlnt hit anybody in the numbers. Notice how all his throws are high or wide? Plus he can't even get balls close when the receiver is 15yds and in. Which is why all you had to do last year to beat us was play a cover 2 or 3. That goes back to 06' against the Bucs, the game he fell apart.
And I don't think fans are "Anti-DA" they just want to win, and DA blew our season, did he play good early and help? Yes, but he got worse as the season went on at the basics. He won some games and lost some games, his loses pretty much whitout his wins. Because of not being able to make easy plays he lost us a playoff bid. That has some fans concerned because they want to go to the post-season, and this is a big year for us, we are past "one step back, two steps foward".
Ya know what I wanna see more than a highlight reel? Is DA just making the easy 10yd In route, a 12 yd curl route, or hitting Bralyon in the numbers on a slant. Or him not making any throw and just taking the sack or throwing it away.
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
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You could put together a nice highlight reel of my golf shots.... doesn't mean I'm a good golfer though.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Thats nice, he did make a hand full of great throws. But he made far more "awful" throws, than "great" throws. He did both.
Picking 3-4 throws out of entire season and using those 3 plays to say "DA is accurate and has touch" is nuts.
If we can admit those 3-4 great throws into evidence, we can admit the 30+ awful throws he made into evidence too in the "Touch & Accuracy" case.
Last edited by BrownsFanZ; 04/11/08 11:12 PM.
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