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LinkParents would have to volunteer at schools, under proposed legislation Posted by Jennifer Gonzalez April 08, 2008 15:43PM State Rep. Sandra Williams introduced House Bill 519 that would require parents to volunteer at schools. Highlights of the bill: • Requires parents of students enrolled in school districts to volunteer for the district. •Grants state employees paid leave to participate in a child's educational activities. Thousands of parents could face a choice: volunteer at your child's school or pay a $100 fine. A bill introduced in the Ohio legislature would require parents to donate at least 13 hours of time to their school district each year or pay the price. And, if parents failed to pay up, the fine could be deducted from their state income tax refunds. School districts would report parents who didn't volunteer to the Ohio Department of Education. "This is just one of those stupid ideas that surface every now and then," said Elizabeth Papp Taylor, former council president of the Shaker Heights Parent Teacher Organization. "It will get crushed." Papp Taylor said the legislation is unfair, especially to parents already burdened with more than one job. People volunteer because it gives them pleasure, not because it is required of them, she said. House Bill 519 was introduced by Rep. Sandra Williams, a Cleveland Democrat, and co-sponsored by six other lawmakers including Rep. Stephen Dyer, a Democrat from Green, and Rep. Barbara Boyd, a Cleveland Heights Democrat. • Allows a nonrefundable credit against the corporate franchise or commercial activity tax for employer-paid leave for employees participating in school activities. • Requires districts to establish mentoring programs for students. • Levies a $100 fine against parents who don't volunteer at least 13 hours a year. If fine not paid, the state would withhold $100 from future state refund. Neither Williams nor Boyd returned phone calls on Tuesday. But Dyer said he co-sponsored the bill because he believes in the spirit of the legislation. He acknowledged that the measure may have to undergo revisions in committee and said he doesn't want it to become overly burdensome for parents. "Ensuring that parents play a vital role in their children's life is the reason I signed on to it," Dyer said. "There are plenty of studies out there that say children whose parents are involved, do better in school." School districts would have to offer a three-hour orientation seminar for parents before they began volunteering. The seminars would include tips for helping children succeed in school. Each school district would adopt a policy describing volunteer opportunities available. Those could include tutoring, participating on school or district committees, assisting with extracurricular activities, chaperoning field trips, clerical work and lunchroom or library duty. The bill also requires school districts to create a mentoring program for students. All mentors would have to undergo criminal background checks and complete an annual training course developed by the school district. Robert Boynton, the Amherst schools superintendent, said he worries that the legislation would become another unfunded mandate. He supports the need for parent involvement, but is wary of the method. "Legislating volunteering doesn't sound logical to me," he said. For 15 years, Diana Leitch, the mother of four children, has volunteered with the Rocky River school district. She said the legislators are not taking into account how parents spend their time with their kids outside of school, such as taking part in church activities. "There is a lot of ways to be involved in your child's life," she said. "It doesn't just have to take place in the school." What the Frac?! Who elected this official in Cleveland? This is the most idiotic proposed bill. Its enough when some parents have to work two jobs to get by in today's economy but to get fine for not volunteering at the school. She is the Moron of the day. In the proposed bill is does say the STATE employees will be compted for the volunteer service. WOW...amazing stuff.
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Does that mean you won't have to pay school taxes? Isn't that why you pay taxes, so they can provide this public service? Why not just close public schools and just have everyone pay for private schools? 
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If you are forced to volunteer is it still volunteering?  I volunteer at my sons school, and I enjoy it. But, I want people volunteering who want to be there, not just there because they have to be. Quote:
"Ensuring that parents play a vital role in their children's life is the reason I signed on to it," Dyer said. "There are plenty of studies out there that say children whose parents are involved, do better in school."
Yeah, I'm sure the government is going to be able to force parents to be GOOD parents. Do these people live in the real world?
Last edited by ColumbusDawg; 04/09/08 09:21 AM.
#gmstrong
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If there are fines and/or consequences for not doing it, it is mandated service, not a volunteer service.
This is just about the most horribly conceived piece of legislation that I have heard of.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I volunteer at my sons school, and I enjoy it. But, I want people volunteering who want to be there, not just there because they have to be.
Exactly, there is a huge difference in attitude between the 2 as well, and it just creates more work for those who wish to be there, babysitting those that don't.
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This is stupid, and I'm not even sure if it's consitutional. My wife and I volunteer a lot at my kids schools (she is also PTO President) but many of my friends can't. I know a lot of people who have to work out of town and it is impossible for them to get to school that much.
#gmstrong
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Well then your friends need to sell their gas guzzling SUV's and ride their bike to work closer to home, so they can go to school. oops, wrong topic. 
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I think it’s a great idea, parents need to be involved more in the kid’s education, if parents were more involved it would help the children. But for me I think Volunteering should be very broad, like attended their child’s football game. But then again I am young, single with no kids  I work in the education field so I am pretty informed on the subject of most parents do nothing for their children
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Quote:
I think it’s a great idea, parents need to be involved more in the kid’s education, if parents were more involved it would help the children.
But for me I think Volunteering should be very broad, like attended their child’s football game.
But then again I am young, single with no kids
I work in the education field so I am pretty informed on the subject of most parents do nothing for their children
I think everyone agrees that parents should be more involved in their children's lives and school career.
But mandating it, kind is the opposite of volunteering, and forcing people to do it, isn't going to get the best help available. People who don't want to be there, and feel forced, will not put forth much effort, and in some extreme cases, even try to sabotage their involvement.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Quote:
Quote:
I think it’s a great idea, parents need to be involved more in the kid’s education, if parents were more involved it would help the children.
But for me I think Volunteering should be very broad, like attended their child’s football game.
But then again I am young, single with no kids
I work in the education field so I am pretty informed on the subject of most parents do nothing for their children
I think everyone agrees that parents should be more involved in their children's lives and school career.
But mandating it, kind is the opposite of volunteering, and forcing people to do it, isn't going to get the best help available. People who don't want to be there, and feel forced, will not put forth much effort, and in some extreme cases, even try to sabotage their involvement.
I agree but if it’s a way to get parents involved in the child’s education then I think it’s a good idea, there are a lot of parents who could careless what their child does.
There are also parents who work 2 jobs and are very busy but I can promise that in a 9month school year they will have 13 hours to donate.
And if parents don’t want to donate the $100 can help pay for school stuff, it’s a win-win situation.
Last edited by Lurker; 04/09/08 12:37 PM.
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I agree but if it’s a way to get parents involved in the child’s education then I think it’s a good idea, there are a lot of parents who could careless what their child does.
And you think forcing them to volunteer will suddenly make them real parents? It's pretty pathetic that you have to bribe people to pay attention to their own kids. The whole thing is a sham.
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The schools can't pass a levy anymore, so now they are just employing slave labor.
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Forget forcing parents to volunteer. Just pass a bill that requires all citizens to teach public school for one year before they are allowed to have children. 
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I don't think we want zero population growth. 
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Quote:
Quote:
I agree but if it’s a way to get parents involved in the child’s education then I think it’s a good idea, there are a lot of parents who could careless what their child does.
And you think forcing them to volunteer will suddenly make them real parents? It's pretty pathetic that you have to bribe people to pay attention to their own kids. The whole thing is a sham.
They don't need to volunteer, just checking on whether they are doing their homework and bringing home a book or two would be a good start.
To be honest, I don't want many of these parents volunteering. I wouldn't want them anywhere my kids, not to mention they might actually dumb down theschools population.
#gmstrong
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But that's not what this legislation is about, it's about requiring parents to volunteer at the school. Which is not really volunteering then.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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What's wrong with this phrase:
Required to Volunteer
I admit, we probably have way to many parents that are willing to have kids, then work hard to support them financially, but seem to want to leave raising thier kids to the school systems..
And yeah, I'm all for parents participating in school functions.. They should in fact.
But, I question if there needs to be a law requiring them to volunteer or else!
I'm kinda thinking that may be going overboard.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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How we just make a law requiring 6 months of parenting classes to any first time parents.:)
It couldn't hurt.
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Here's my favorite part ..... Quote:
• Levies a $100 fine against parents who don't volunteer at least 13 hours a year. If fine not paid, the state would withhold $100 from future state refund.
So ..... working people who don't, or can't volunteer get whacked i their state income tax refund ........ but those who don't work, have no taxable income ....... and don't volunteer (and who very well might have the most at risk children) actually face no penalty at all.
Garbage legislation ..... and another example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Variouis religions have faith based parenting classes which I see nothing wrong with.
I guess I just have a problem with the word "require" and "Volunteer" in the same sentence...
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Just pass a law that requires all kids to do well in school?
We already have that law. It's called the No Child Left Behind Act. 
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School districts would report parents who didn't volunteer to the Ohio Department of Education.
Interesting enough, in a time when schools are having to make budget cuts, they want to add the responsibility of tracking volunteered time by parents. I can't possible see where that would get screwed up.  And you have a bunch of angry parents that didn't get proper credit for their time served.
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Ok, I just now returned from my sons middle school where I gave 2 presentations to the entire 6th grade... and judging how a lot of these kids acted, I don't really want their parents volunteering around my child.
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
Here's my favorite part .....
Quote:
• Levies a $100 fine against parents who don't volunteer at least 13 hours a year. If fine not paid, the state would withhold $100 from future state refund.
So ..... working people who don't, or can't volunteer get whacked i their state income tax refund ........ but those who don't work, have no taxable income ....... and don't volunteer (and who very well might have the most at risk children) actually face no penalty at all.
Garbage legislation ..... and another example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions.
Being self employed, I never get a refund. Guess I wouldn't have to worry about it either.
#gmstrong
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j/c
I like the part about state employees being paid for their absence from work. If only we could all be state employees, huh?
And I do volunteer for my first grade daughter's class - 10 times this year - 2 hours a time. But to require it from everyone is disgusting. I hope this Williams lady is voted out of office as soon as possible. This is just proof she has no idea what her constituents are up against.
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Nice to see that you help your child and your schools. I know DC does the same thing. Sounds like PDawg does the same thing. Kudos to all of you.
I think the law is preposterous. It would never work, and frankly, as an educator, I really don't want every parent in the school. I'm not talking about guys like you, DC, and PDawg. I'm talking about the crude, uneducated idiots that have no business being around other children. I sure as hell would not have wanted some of the parents I have dealt w/around my own children. I also don't like the agenda-driven parents in the school. They interfere and manipulate the system. Leave the educating to the professionals and allow parents who have the best for the school at heart to work in the schools.
The proposed bill is BS!
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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As far as helping out - it's not what I expected - but then again, I went in not knowing what to expect.
Perfect example of my 2 hours at school: I get sent out of the classroom with 1 student at a time. I help that student do the homework that was due on monday (Thursdays are when I help out). When I get done with that student, the next one comes out, then the next, and if I'm lucky I'll help the same 5 kids every time I'm there. Every time.
I don't see my daughter other than when I get there or when I leave. But I do see these same 4-5 kids. The worst part? Other than 1 of them, the kids can do it - they just need someone "guiding" them. I talk to my wife about it often - some parents just don't give a rats ass apparently.
And the 1 that just doesn't seem to be able to grasp it is in such a bad home environment........at least his parents are still married. But, truthfully, this kid never knows who's going to be at home, as mom and dad both seem to alternate jail sentences. At least they are bright enough to not get in trouble when the other one is serving their 15 or 30 days.
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That's a pretty cool set-up, Arch. You actually have been assigned a very important job, w/a lot of responsibility attached to it.
And let me tell you............one on one instruction is the best kind. Here's a little tip for those of you w/kids and are looking to move to a good school district. Don't go by the test scores. Don't go by how many programs they have. Go by the teacher to pupil ratio and the average income per family of that school district.
Teacher to pupil ratio is # 1 in terms of giving a child a good chance to excel. I was just going to write about that, but I didn't want to deceive anyone. It's also very important to surround your child w/other children who come from families that care about education. Unbelievably, a large percentage of our population still doesn't value education.
Now, I know that you all can't live in high-rent neighborhoods, but do the best you can. What you certainly can do........is find a school w/a low pupil to teacher ratio.
Of course, many of already probably know these things, but I am just throwing it out there for those who may not.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
I really don't want every parent in the school. I'm not talking about guys like you, DC, and PDawg. I'm talking about the crude, uneducated idiots that have no business being around other children.
 I hear ya there brother!
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Go by the teacher to pupil ratio and the average income per family of that school district.
Can you give averages for both based on your experience? And, does lower per family income generally mean the teachers earn less, too? 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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And, does lower per family income generally mean the teachers earn less, too?
Vers may answer better than me but I believe county teacher pay is set across the county and does not change. In fact in some citys teachers are actually paid more (by incentive) to teach at the worst schools.
My problem with that is (and this is just my own speculation) the worst schools end up with the teachers who are interested in making more money and not necessarily the ones who are interested in doing the best job.
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does lower per family income generally mean the teachers earn less, too?
In a word, No. City districts have a lower average income then in the suburbs. Their pay is usually higher, quite a bit in fact. It is much tougher for these schools to find teachers and therefore they need to spend more for them.
I haven't looked it up lately but last time I checked my district was 2nd highest in the county when it came to income. We are somewhere near the bottom half in salaries. The rural districts pay quite a bit less and I think it does have a lot to do with the amount of taxes they generate. I'm not sure how much the per capita income comes into play because of the area these districts have to cover in relation to the amount of tax payers.
#gmstrong
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My problem with that is (and this is just my own speculation) the worst schools end up with the teachers who are interested in making more money and not necessarily the ones who are interested in doing the best job.
I can see how you think this but I don't agree. I am coming from the perspective of someone who doesn't teach but is close with many that do. Inner city jobs do pay more, because the work is that much harder. I believe the vast majority that take these jobs do it because that is what is available. You can do your very best and still fail because the amount of kids who don't care and are constant disruptions.
Many of the kids that are trying hard need more time because they are at a distinct disadvantage because of the fact that they are saddled with a rough homelife and parents that don't care. I think the teacher burnout rate is much higher than other districts. I can see how many just give up.
City school teachers have it very rough. It takes a special type of person to go into many of these schools and plug away. Personally I think they should take these cronic trouble making kids and send them to special schools where the discipline can be enforced. They can still get some education (as opposed to being expelled) but the real benefit will go to the kids who at least want to make an effort. Short of vouchers (I know I just ticked off a bunch of teachers) I can't think of a better option.
#gmstrong
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I can see how you think this but I don't agree. I am coming from the perspective of someone who doesn't teach but is close with many that do. Inner city jobs do pay more, because the work is that much harder. I believe the vast majority that take these jobs do it because that is what is available.
Aren't you making my point? My point was that inner city schools don't get the best teachers because they get the ones who are after more money... your point is that inner city schools get the teachers that couldn't get the better suburban jobs... so either way, the inner city schools aren't getting the best teachers, we just have different reasons why.
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DC: No one teaches for the money. No one. If someone wants to make more money, they don't go teach in a city school, they find another career. The bottom line is that every district has good teachers and not-so-good teachers, regardless of the pay. There are young teachers who are fresh and full of ideas and there are older teachers who are disgruntled and are just riding it out until retirement. I've seen and worked with all kinds. The issue isn't unique to one certain type of school district. In my opinion, it takes a very special person to go into some of those city school and teach those kids. My district borders Columbus Public and we get a lot of spill-over, so I'd say we're as close as it comes without actually being there. But if a person voluntarily chooses to teach in those types of districts, it isn't for the money. It's because they have a gift that not many others share. JMHO.
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The thing is just because you can't get a suburban job doesn't make you an inferior teacher. Trust me when I say that many of these suburban jobs are about who you know rather then how good of a teacher you will be. Also many city teachers do apply for those jobs because they are from that community. They want to make a difference for those they know.
#gmstrong
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Don't forget the fact that, due to finances, many districts won't hire teachers with more than 1-2 years of experience. I got passed over by two different districts because of this. In one district, I interviewed with 6 different people and had already been signed on to be the head 8th grade football coach when they found out that I had my Master's and 8 years of experience. A week went by with no further word on the teaching job I applied for so I called the principal and she told me that the Board of Ed. forbade the building principals from hiring anyone with over 3 years experience because it was going to cost the district too much money.
So it's not how good of a teacher you are anymore. It's how cheap you are. The only profession I know where you are punished for having TOO MUCH experience. And people wonder why education takes a back seat in this country. 
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You are right. My wife is going to be looking for a full time position and she has to be careful not to get her masters yet. If she does it will be very hard to find work in a tight market. With the new rules that make it neccesary to get a masters after so many years they are hurting the experienced teachers even more.
Another problem is retire and rehire programs. They save districts a ton of money because they only have to pay the retired teachers a minimum salary and no benefits, squeezing the market even more.
#gmstrong
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DC: No one teaches for the money. No one. If someone wants to make more money, they don't go teach in a city school, they find another career.
First of all, if someone in ANY career wants to make more money than their current job is paying, they switch jobs.
Secondly, I'm tired of hearing that teachers are underpaid. If they are underpaid, why do they do it?
Also, keep in mind that they work only 9 months of the year, from basically 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. Plus, 2 weeks off at Christmas, another week for spring break, etc.
I don't know about other school districts, but here locally first year teachers start off around $23K to $26K. Raises come automatically each year, plus additional raises based on continuing education credits. It's nothing for a teacher, around here, to be making $45 to $50 later in their careers. And, here's the kicker: In ohio, after 30 years you qualify for full retirement WITH full insurance. That means at age 52 or 53 you CAN be done working if you choose, and IF you have lived within your budget during those 30 years. Plus, say you taught 28 years but want to retire, you can buy your last 2 years in order to get full retirement.
Now, I've heard all the stories about teachers work not being done at 3 pm, and how they go to school at 7 am. But, I also see first hand, every morning and many afternoons, most teachers arriving at school when I am dropping my daughter off, and on many occasions I have watched many teachers walking out of school along with the kids, and they get in their cars and go home.
Yes, some work evenings grading papers, but unless you have a factory job, most everyone else spends some time in the evenings as well, so I don't wanna hear about all the time spent outside of school. On top of that, teachers also get a minimum of 1 free period per day so they can plan etc. Plus, there's the recesses, the lunch period.......out of a 7 hour day, it's very possible to have close to 2 hours "off" (recesses, lunch, and the free period). Wow, 5 hours a day for the equivalent of 8 1/2 months of work?
Now, let's say teachers DO work every evening (and they don't) but if they did, they would need to spend the equivalent of 3 hours every evening during the week in order to work what most working people do. Plus, they have summers off.
Oh, sure, summers are busy getting continuing education credits......well golly, summers for the rest of the world are spent putting in 8 or 10 hour days, with, if you're lucky, 3 weeks of vacation per year.
Throw in sick days, personal days, and weather days - teachers are not overworked, nor underpaid - not when everything is considered.
One last thing - my mom was a teacher. She is retired now. I do not begrudge her the benefits she has one bit.
My neighbor is 55. He is retired, as is his wife (from teaching - both of them) They paid for their daughters college, and get this: they just bought their son a condo near the U. of Toledo (or Toledo U - what ever it is), and he's only a senior in high school right now.
2 of my former teachers have been retired since they were 52 as well (they were also my coaches). I don't begrudge them their benefits either. Our community library has 2 of my former teachers working there - yup - they retired at age 53 and 54. Why do they work? I've asked them. Their answer? It's boring sitting at home.
I understand a teacher with a 4 yr. degree may start off making a little less than others with a 4 yr. degree, but when everything is factored in, teaching can be a lucrative career - and a short one, relatively speaking.
I'm not knocking teachers at all - I'm knocking the "woe is me" attitude some have/some people have about teachers.
I'm guessing some people may be upset at what I'm said, and that's fine. Their opinion is valid, just as mine is. But, keep in mind - teachers don't have it that bad at all. Not when everything is said and done.....honestly, I wish I had gotten into either teaching or nursing.
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